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Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 20, 2021 01:55

Quote
daniel t
They probably receive a couple of dollars for every album sold/downloaded/etc... but they get 30-40$ for every t-shirt sold at concerts + millions from ticket sales.
I wonder why people can't understand why this damn new album doesn't come out.

Wouldn't you do the exact same thing?

Actually no...you have all the money in the world, you can put out an album, even if it doesn't make any money, because you enjoy it and that's what you do. You don't even have to give up the rest of it.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 20, 2021 01:57

Believe me ....... The well aint dry ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: December 20, 2021 02:07

Quote
Rockman
Love ta hear 'em do some stuff with
the Steve Jordan punk garage drive ....

my thoughts exactly

blue & lonesome v2

this time with some reggae,country, chuck berry covers and maybe one or two original songs and give keith a song on it too

just get together and do that twice a year for as long as there able

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 20, 2021 02:09

YEAH .... agree agree



ROCKMAN

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: angee ()
Date: December 20, 2021 02:25

Hairball, I am going to bet against your thought that they won't play Ghost Town on the next tour.
IMO, it is a better song than those others, and it also included audience participation.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: December 20, 2021 02:38

Quote
angee
Hairball, I am going to bet against your thought that they won't play Ghost Town on the next tour.
IMO, it is a better song than those others, and it also included audience participation.

Well I didn't say they would absolutely drop it so not placing any bets, but based on the past chances are it could be dropped.
I also said I hope not for the sake of the fans, and that it's a great tune. Plus it's their only original tune in years...hope they keep playing it forever.thumbs up

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: December 20, 2021 06:26

Maybe the well didn’t run dry, maybe the original mick & Keith well got contaminated. I think they went and sunk their own wells and write from that place now rather than a collective well.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: December 20, 2021 08:42

Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Doxa
I wonder if any of the classic rock artists from the 60's has have any real 'hits' since the 80's. With that I mean not great songs hardcore fans might like but such tunes people are familiar with and recognize like their old classics. Dylan maybe (even talking about 'hits' with him is not very apt).

It could be as much the artists running out of hit potential creatively as their audience not any longer being so excited easily as before. Hits are young people's game. Time waits for no one, etc.

- Doxa

"Hits" may be a quirky word (any other suggestions?). I don't think The Rolling Stones are above "hits" though. They are into popular music after all, not a serious classical act. I remember Jagger himself explaining what a good album was; he said something like this " a good single and two songs you can play live". Even Watts complained about the lack of hits from the latter day albums. So I don't think it is irrelevant to bring the issue to the table.

Even if the Rolling Stones have not been above having 'hits', their music cannot in any way be reduced to consisting of those. Their songs of especially considered quality are not 'hits' solely. That applies even more to their albums. As such, 'popular music' does not necessarily imply commercial 'hits'. Commercial 'hits' are only part of popular music. So the discussion about this creative "well" must have a conceptually wider perspective than hit making capability.

Edit: Corretion of a spelling error.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-20 11:26 by Witness.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 20, 2021 08:53

Quote
franzk
Quote
Doxa
I wonder if any of the classic rock artists from the 60's has have any real 'hits' since the 80's.

Kokomo was a big hit for The Beach Boys in 1988...

Please correct your post.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: ribbelchips ()
Date: December 20, 2021 10:56

Especially in pop music, people are always looking for new, fresh heroes and idols. After the last Stones hit-album (Tattoo You) bands\acts like Queen, Aerosmith, U2, Michael Jackson, Bon Jovi, Guns 'n Roses and many more emerged and became very popular. Albums like Undercover and Dirty Work of course didn't make a dent. The Stones simply lost momentum in the mid-eighties and never really reclaimed that spot when it comes to pop-music.

The Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour was kind of a comeback tour. Thanks to Mixed Emotions, Paint it Black (as the Tour of Duty titlesong) Love is Strong and Like a Rolling Stone they regained some popularity in the first half of the nineties, but from that moment on they mainly lived on their legacy. With setlist over 75% consisting of >20yo songs.

But in '95 they were already in their fifties. How many pop-artists you know who scored hits in their fifties. Half of them died before that age, the other half became irrelevant twenty years prior. Bands like Guns 'n Roses. AC/DC, U2, Aerosmith and ZZ-Top followed the same route the Stones did. Some still make (mediocre) albums, but they mainly feed on old hits. And they fill stadiums with over 80.000 people with those old hits. So the absolute need to write new hits isn't really there is it?

I don't think they care really to be honest. Woody and Keith surely don't.. Keith said that he's glad that he's not in a pop-band anymore. Mick tried to blend in some modern influences in songs like Rain fall Down and Anybody seen my baby. Mainly from a commercial point of view I guess...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-20 11:14 by ribbelchips.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 20, 2021 12:40

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Taylor1
She Was Hot extended version is a classic

In what world?

In my world. To me SWH is their last really good Stones song. Maybe even great. It has the Stonsey natural flow, that swagger only they had.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 20, 2021 12:48

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Taylor1
She Was Hot extended version is a classic

In what world?

In my world. To me SWH is their last really good Stones song. Maybe even great. It has the Stonsey natural flow, that swagger only they had.
edit: the attitude of Jagger combined with the laid back flow of Keith. The Stones were done when Wyman left.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: guezeg ()
Date: December 20, 2021 12:51

They haven't lived in the same city since 1971. Since then, they've relied on their habits and tricks but no new fire could be ignited, except when thay had to live together for a while (Paris 1977-1978).

Put them in lockdown in the same home for a year, you'll get a great album.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: December 20, 2021 19:07

Quote
guezeg
They haven't lived in the same city since 1971. Since then, they've relied on their habits and tricks but no new fire could be ignited, except when thay had to live together for a while (Paris 1977-1978).

Put them in lockdown in the same home for a year, you'll get a great album.

Well, they came together in Mick's French castle and came up with A Bigger Bang. I am among those who feel that ABB is underrated. It contains some brilliant songs. Just take the Rolling Stones as they are, no chance of becoming disappointed. Just dream back in time ... who would have thought that Keith Richards would be "jumping" on stage around the age of 78. You? No. Me? No. But here we are, we can still look forward to another great get-together with those greatest rockers of all time. And ... a new album.
smileys with beer

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: redkev ()
Date: December 20, 2021 20:20

I think getting older, more famous, less connected to society, must have an impact. Hard to be angry, nasty, naughty, rebellious when you're 40+ and part of the music establishment. Anything remotely rebellious from Undercover onwards always felt a little contrived, like they were viewing events and headlines from a long safe distance. Unlike 68-72 when they were more a part of the events and creating the headlines (for good and bad).

Punk challenged them and gave something to prove and dragged them out of that mid 70s lull but Some Girls was their last great album of stuff written mostly at the time of release and it really reflected the times (disco and punk). Tattoo You was just a bonus of good tracks from the 70s that they hadn't bothered to finish. I also wonder where the stones would have gone if Taylor had stayed and Billy Preston was less of an influence. Although its a stretch to say that may have prolonged their era of producing better songs - who knows, maybe they would have quit!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-20 20:21 by redkev.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 20, 2021 22:05

Quote
daniel t
They probably receive a couple of dollars for every album sold/downloaded/etc... but they get 30-40$ for every t-shirt sold at concerts + millions from ticket sales.
I wonder why people can't understand why this damn new album doesn't come out.

Wouldn't you do the exact same thing?

Only artists with their own labels make money from physical record sales. When partnered with Apple and Amazon for purchase downloads, they make very little, and even less with Spotify etc. The differences is in cents, not dollars. There's essentially no money in recorded music with digital distribution. What money is made from deluxe reissues and box sets of either LP format - vinyl or CD (and apparently cassette tape now) - is nothing like it used to be before iTunes came along. What stores are left selling hard copies are only going to purchase X amount of units.

T-shirt sales during a tour are part of a guarantee by the promoter with acts like U2, the Stones, Pearl Jam, etc. Their shirts in stores like Target and whoever is all handled by a company. Smaller acts are, from what I know, directly involved with the sales of their merchandise with the only exception being hard copies of albums if signed to a label that is not their own, like ATO Records. The Stones merchandise etc is handled by Bravado, which, gee, is owned by UMG. So when you see a Stones shirt in a store or buy one from rockabilia.com or whatever - that's Bravado.

With regard to the Stones and UMG, they were paid an advance of $15 in 2008 with UMG to be on UMe. That is strictly a loan for new recorded music. The money paid for the 3 album advance, for example, is made back by whatever is sold, in this case, Doom And Gloom, One More Shot, BLUE & LONESOME and Living In A Ghost Town. Does the 3 album deal include the two hits comps? The people at UMG had better hope it did. It probably doesn't matter though because in 2018, ten years after signing with UMG, they signed an extension. It appears that there are no expectations in regard to the record deal for new music.

UMG is effectively licensing the Stones 1971-2005 back catalog from Promotone BV, the Stones' own company for their music. Where the Stones make money with their catalog is through publishing. Their 1971-1983 publishing is with EMI. In 2013 when they signed with BMG for a "neighboring rights" ala TV and radio royalties, they also were to directly handle the 1986 onward publishing (the CBS/Columbia/Sony era and Virgin/EMI era) but also took over their entire music publishing "administration" going back to 1963, which just means that BMG makes sure that ABKCO and EMI (which was bought by UMG in 2012) are looked after. They are royalty collectors.

Then there's Eagle Rock, which handles all the live video releases, which includes the From The Vault series, with its various formats. Eagle Rock and Eagle Vision is a subsidiary of, gee, UMG.

If the Stones were to sell their entire catalog and publishing like Dylan and Springsteen, they'd have zero control. Their experience with Decca and ABKCO Records is probably a lesson they will always remember. From what little I've read about the Stones in regard to that, selling the catalog will never happen.

Apparently like a new album.

Besides, between 1989 and 2002 they apparently made just over $1.5 billion dollars. Why would they bother selling their entire catalog? The Stones have everything under one company to make them money because record sales have practically nothing to do with making money and which is why they keep touring.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: December 20, 2021 22:22

I think that their last good single ( other than LIAGT) is Harlem Shuffle.

A cover, I know.

The well ran dry because Bill Wyman left!

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: December 20, 2021 22:25

Actually Out Of Tears was very good - if released in '76 it would have been a huge hit like Fool to Cry.

But they weren't, in 95 - and even less now - 'current' - ntrendy - poular - no longer appealing to the young

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: December 20, 2021 22:58

The well is not dry, it's just a change in the music business and musical tastes.

Rap, Pop and "R'n'B" are in vogue, have been for a long time.

The Stones could write another Satisfaction and it wouldn't get any airtime.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: December 21, 2021 00:03

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Taylor1
She Was Hot extended version is a classic

In what world?

In my world. To me SWH is their last really good Stones song. Maybe even great. It has the Stonsey natural flow, that swagger only they had.
I love the extended version. Nothing better to play in the jeep driving on the highway.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: December 21, 2021 00:07

It is amazing what they produced from 1964 - 1981. But even after that there is still some really great stuff. I for one love parts of Voodoo Lounge and all of Bridges to Babylon. It may not be as great as the big 4 ,Some Girls Goat, but I like it better than any album in the last 25 years by anyother artist

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: December 21, 2021 00:12

Yeah lurv ta get a Deluxe of Bridges .....
Must be a ton of stuff still layin there ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: December 21, 2021 02:02

Their last Top 10/40 hit in the US was on 1989-90, Mick and Keith were both at 46 at the time, I can name 2 or 3 acts with hits at that age or older: Elton John (featured with guests), Madonna's last Top 40 was on 2011 at 53 and Aerosmith with Jaded on 2001 with Tyler at 53 too.

No other act got a Top 40 hit with a new song after age 50.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: December 21, 2021 03:27

Quote
georgelicks
Their last Top 10/40 hit in the US was on 1989-90, Mick and Keith were both at 46 at the time, I can name 2 or 3 acts with hits at that age or older: Elton John (featured with guests), Madonna's last Top 40 was on 2011 at 53 and Aerosmith with Jaded on 2001 with Tyler at 53 too.

No other act got a Top 40 hit with a new song after age 50.

ABBA just scored a NUMBER ONE HIT - OK, in Sweden - and number 9 in the UK, but I understand we're being US-centric in this discussion.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: December 21, 2021 15:00

No, not US centric.

But not La, Lá, Umpy Umpy centric.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: TrulyMicks1 ()
Date: December 21, 2021 15:52

Some of their best songs are from the post 70’s and I think they could’ve done the last tour playing these songs only. Some of my friends I saw No Filter with were very disappointed because they played all old songs. They were hoping to hear some songs from Emotional Rescue, Voodoo, Undercover, Bridges, Bigger Bang, etc.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: December 21, 2021 16:05

Quote
Witness

Edit: Corretion of a spelling error.

THIS MADE ME LAUGH OUT LOUD FOR A BLOODY LONG TIME

Rod

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: December 21, 2021 16:08

Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Witness

Edit: Corretion of a spelling error.

THIS MADE ME LAUGH OUT LOUD FOR A BLOODY LONG TIME

Saim cool smiley

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: rbk ()
Date: December 21, 2021 16:27

"The well ran dry" when they grew up and became individuals living their own lives. The best Stones music was created when they were still acting and thinking like a band. A feral, vicious band at that.

Re: Why did the well run dry?
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: December 21, 2021 17:25

Quote
Rockman
Believe me ....... The well aint dry ....

Neither is the patio.

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