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Testify
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not
But what I meant, is that there is not only the guitar solo, personally I have always been attracted by guitar rhythmic, for this I love both Keith and Ronnie. The guitar solo is only a piece of guitar work.
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treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
matxil
Very good version
Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.
- Doxa
I've given up on it as a live song, in the same way as Satisfaction or IORR. There's the way they NAIL IT on the record, and the way they choose to do it live. I accept it and don't think about it until I hear a version like say IORR by Mick b/w Foo Fighters on SNL. It's like HEY?! You CAN do it live!
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GasLightStreetQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
matxil
Very good version
Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.
- Doxa
I've given up on it as a live song, in the same way as Satisfaction or IORR. There's the way they NAIL IT on the record, and the way they choose to do it live. I accept it and don't think about it until I hear a version like say IORR by Mick b/w Foo Fighters on SNL. It's like HEY?! You CAN do it live!
The brilliance of the 1989-90 live version was that it was as completely different from the studio and 1981-82 live versions. Since then, it's been basically a slopfest. In 1994 they got back to playing it with more of a chug than a flow, but it's been lumpy ever since VOODOO.
That 1990 live IORR was pretty good. Up until that point there was only the killer version on LOVE YOU LIVE. It's since also become a sludgefest.
Similar can be said about Satisfaction between 1969 and forever as well as Jumpin' Jack Flash from 1969 and forever.
They've never done Neighbours worth a damn live, though, so no improving on that possible.
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist periodQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Testify
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not
But what I meant, is that there is not only the guitar solo, personally I have always been attracted by guitar rhythmic, for this I love both Keith and Ronnie. The guitar solo is only a piece of guitar work.
I beg to differ. Playing a (long) guitar solo is also about understanding the art of phrasing without relying on pulling out the usual pentatonic guitar licks and riffs. A complete rock/blues/jazz guitarist can play both a great solo and rhythm guitar, or a hash of both. The Rolling Stones never had such a player, neither Brian, Keith, Wood or Taylor. Having said that I feel that Keith Richards is a great rhythm player, and Mick Taylor to a certain extend a good solo guitarist. But then it's the Rolling Stones as a sum of their parts that makes them great.
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Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
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StonedRamblerYes. It's great that the studio version of Rambler is as minimalistic and repetitive as it is. That puts the focus on the groove rather than some melody lines. Some soloing by Taylor over it would not have made it better. Even though it's great what he did liveQuote
Taylor1
Why didn’t they let Mick Taylor add guitar on some other tracks on Let it Bleed? Like Midnight Rambler Let it Bleedand Love in Vain?Same reason.They liked what they had
Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
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Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
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Taylor1That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Better be careful to compare different guitarists with different styles.
I always found that the best rhythm Guitarists are Flamenco players. But then there is Keith. "Houston, we have a problem".
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Spud
There's a place in Rock n Roll for instrumental virtuosity ...
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
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deardoctorQuote
Spud
There's a place in Rock n Roll for instrumental virtuosity ...
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
Absolutley true. But that´s another story.
Despite of technical skills I would rate Black And Blue far higher than the best album of Jeff Beck.
Maybe that leads us back to the topic of the thread...