Tell Me :
Talk
I beg to differ. Playing a (long) guitar solo is also about understanding the art of phrasing without relying on pulling out the usual pentatonic guitar licks and riffs. A complete rock/blues/jazz guitarist can play both a great solo and rhythm guitar, or a hash of both. The Rolling Stones never had such a player, neither Brian, Keith, Wood or Taylor. Having said that I feel that Keith Richards is a great rhythm player, and Mick Taylor to a certain extend a good solo guitarist. But then it's the Rolling Stones as a sum of their parts that makes them great.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-15 16:43 by TheflyingDutchman.
The brilliance of the 1989-90 live version was that it was as completely different from the studio and 1981-82 live versions. Since then, it's been basically a slopfest. In 1994 they got back to playing it with more of a chug than a flow, but it's been lumpy ever since VOODOO.
That 1990 live IORR was pretty good. Up until that point there was only the killer version on LOVE YOU LIVE. It's since also become a sludgefest.
Similar can be said about Satisfaction between 1969 and forever as well as Jumpin' Jack Flash from 1969 and forever.
They've never done Neighbours worth a damn live, though, so no improving on that possible.
Start me up also sounded very good in 2007, almost as good as the 89/90 version, listen: [youtu.be]
So much energy and great guitars.
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 01:09 by TheflyingDutchman.
Maybe, maybe not, but the fact it never happened makes it impossible to pass judgement, yet you state your opinion as if it's an absolute fact.
What did happen was Taylor played on it live many times which many fans regard as the superior versions over the minimalist studio version.
While I love the original studio version, I might have loved it even more had Taylor played a solo on it, and that opinion is partially based on all the great live versions he performed on.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 14:15 by Taylor1.
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Better be careful to compare different guitarists with different styles.
I always found that the best rhythm Guitarists are Flamenco players. But then there is Keith. "Houston, we have a problem".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-18 00:08 by TheflyingDutchman.
Well yes - we should not compare different styles - lets´s keep with Electrical guitars and Rock-music.
Mick Taylor - I like his stuff very much with the exception of noddling about whole songs including the choruses especially during the tour 1971.
But: the way how Jeff Beck plays guitar is amazing and far from the standard- blues-scales, Mick Taylor uses. Just watch his right-hand technique...
That´s not just an opinion of a fan.
But ok- your nickname is Taylor1, not Beck1
Absolutley true. But that´s another story.
Despite of technical skills I would rate Black And Blue far higher than the best album of Jeff Beck.
Maybe that leads us back to the topic of the thread...
LOL I thought Beck's guitaring on Jagger's solo albums was atrocious.
Still is.
Always will be.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 15, 2021 16:40
Quote
Testify
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not
But what I meant, is that there is not only the guitar solo, personally I have always been attracted by guitar rhythmic, for this I love both Keith and Ronnie. The guitar solo is only a piece of guitar work.
I beg to differ. Playing a (long) guitar solo is also about understanding the art of phrasing without relying on pulling out the usual pentatonic guitar licks and riffs. A complete rock/blues/jazz guitarist can play both a great solo and rhythm guitar, or a hash of both. The Rolling Stones never had such a player, neither Brian, Keith, Wood or Taylor. Having said that I feel that Keith Richards is a great rhythm player, and Mick Taylor to a certain extend a good solo guitarist. But then it's the Rolling Stones as a sum of their parts that makes them great.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-15 16:43 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 15, 2021 17:59
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
matxil
Very good version
Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.
- Doxa
I've given up on it as a live song, in the same way as Satisfaction or IORR. There's the way they NAIL IT on the record, and the way they choose to do it live. I accept it and don't think about it until I hear a version like say IORR by Mick b/w Foo Fighters on SNL. It's like HEY?! You CAN do it live!
The brilliance of the 1989-90 live version was that it was as completely different from the studio and 1981-82 live versions. Since then, it's been basically a slopfest. In 1994 they got back to playing it with more of a chug than a flow, but it's been lumpy ever since VOODOO.
That 1990 live IORR was pretty good. Up until that point there was only the killer version on LOVE YOU LIVE. It's since also become a sludgefest.
Similar can be said about Satisfaction between 1969 and forever as well as Jumpin' Jack Flash from 1969 and forever.
They've never done Neighbours worth a damn live, though, so no improving on that possible.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
IsakSun
()
Date: November 15, 2021 21:09
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DoxaQuote
matxil
Very good version
Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.
- Doxa
I've given up on it as a live song, in the same way as Satisfaction or IORR. There's the way they NAIL IT on the record, and the way they choose to do it live. I accept it and don't think about it until I hear a version like say IORR by Mick b/w Foo Fighters on SNL. It's like HEY?! You CAN do it live!
The brilliance of the 1989-90 live version was that it was as completely different from the studio and 1981-82 live versions. Since then, it's been basically a slopfest. In 1994 they got back to playing it with more of a chug than a flow, but it's been lumpy ever since VOODOO.
That 1990 live IORR was pretty good. Up until that point there was only the killer version on LOVE YOU LIVE. It's since also become a sludgefest.
Similar can be said about Satisfaction between 1969 and forever as well as Jumpin' Jack Flash from 1969 and forever.
They've never done Neighbours worth a damn live, though, so no improving on that possible.
Start me up also sounded very good in 2007, almost as good as the 89/90 version, listen: [youtu.be]
So much energy and great guitars.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: November 15, 2021 21:30
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist periodQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Testify
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not
But what I meant, is that there is not only the guitar solo, personally I have always been attracted by guitar rhythmic, for this I love both Keith and Ronnie. The guitar solo is only a piece of guitar work.
I beg to differ. Playing a (long) guitar solo is also about understanding the art of phrasing without relying on pulling out the usual pentatonic guitar licks and riffs. A complete rock/blues/jazz guitarist can play both a great solo and rhythm guitar, or a hash of both. The Rolling Stones never had such a player, neither Brian, Keith, Wood or Taylor. Having said that I feel that Keith Richards is a great rhythm player, and Mick Taylor to a certain extend a good solo guitarist. But then it's the Rolling Stones as a sum of their parts that makes them great.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 16, 2021 00:57
Quote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 01:09 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 16, 2021 01:28
Quote
StonedRamblerYes. It's great that the studio version of Rambler is as minimalistic and repetitive as it is. That puts the focus on the groove rather than some melody lines. Some soloing by Taylor over it would not have made it better. Even though it's great what he did liveQuote
Taylor1
Why didn’t they let Mick Taylor add guitar on some other tracks on Let it Bleed? Like Midnight Rambler Let it Bleedand Love in Vain?Same reason.They liked what they had
Maybe, maybe not, but the fact it never happened makes it impossible to pass judgement, yet you state your opinion as if it's an absolute fact.
What did happen was Taylor played on it live many times which many fans regard as the superior versions over the minimalist studio version.
While I love the original studio version, I might have loved it even more had Taylor played a solo on it, and that opinion is partially based on all the great live versions he performed on.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: November 16, 2021 12:32
Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 14:15 by Taylor1.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: November 17, 2021 22:19
Quote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: November 17, 2021 23:21
That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: November 18, 2021 00:04
Quote
Taylor1That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Better be careful to compare different guitarists with different styles.
I always found that the best rhythm Guitarists are Flamenco players. But then there is Keith. "Houston, we have a problem".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-18 00:08 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: November 18, 2021 12:26
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1That is your opinion.Beck is not miles ahead of Taylor.And talk about noodling.Taylor was as great in a different way in1973.And by the way, Beck is not some unique Guitar God.He is miles away from a classical guitarist such as John Williams and Pepe Romero in terms of techniqueQuote
deardoctorQuote
Taylor1Taylor at his best was a great guitarist.His style is diff from Beck’s.Beck is great also but not greater thanTaylor. McLaughlin is cold and a bore.It’s like listening to a computer .Hendrix was not technically that great , but the greatest innovator.The others you quote I never heard their music.Like to have heard them play in place of Taylor on the Brussels1973 shows and be greater.It’s different playing in a band concept as opposed to wailing awayQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Taylor1
Taylor is a great soloist and great guitarist period
Yes he is, he is my favourite Rolling Stones guitarist, but I mean compared to the really greats, the innovators like Reinhardt, Wes Montgomery, Hendrix, Jeff Beck, John McLaughlin, Allan Holdsworth. If that's allowed in music /Rolling Stones fansite..
Taylor is a lively bluesyplayer, sometimes noddling too much.
Jeff Beck miles away from that, probably the best guitaryplayer of that old heroes. His technic is unique!
Better be careful to compare different guitarists with different styles.
I always found that the best rhythm Guitarists are Flamenco players. But then there is Keith. "Houston, we have a problem".
Well yes - we should not compare different styles - lets´s keep with Electrical guitars and Rock-music.
Mick Taylor - I like his stuff very much with the exception of noddling about whole songs including the choruses especially during the tour 1971.
But: the way how Jeff Beck plays guitar is amazing and far from the standard- blues-scales, Mick Taylor uses. Just watch his right-hand technique...
That´s not just an opinion of a fan.
But ok- your nickname is Taylor1, not Beck1
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: November 18, 2021 14:03
There's a place in Rock n Roll for instrumental virtuosity ...
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: November 18, 2021 15:56
Quote
Spud
There's a place in Rock n Roll for instrumental virtuosity ...
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
Absolutley true. But that´s another story.
Despite of technical skills I would rate Black And Blue far higher than the best album of Jeff Beck.
Maybe that leads us back to the topic of the thread...
Re: Ronnie on Black & Blue
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 19, 2021 04:03
Quote
deardoctorQuote
Spud
There's a place in Rock n Roll for instrumental virtuosity ...
....but it's seldom a major factor in the best Rock n Roll
Absolutley true. But that´s another story.
Despite of technical skills I would rate Black And Blue far higher than the best album of Jeff Beck.
Maybe that leads us back to the topic of the thread...
LOL I thought Beck's guitaring on Jagger's solo albums was atrocious.
Still is.
Always will be.
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