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retired_dog
If anything, I think it's disrespectful, even presumptuous, to tell the band what to do now, in particular in an authoritative way like "they should/have to/must do this or that" like some here obviously feel entitled to do just because they're fans since oh so long.

The band is free, free to do whatever they want, any old time.

We are the paying customers. We have sustained them by buying records, souvenirs, tickets and lots of other band related stuff. That gives us the right to say what we want. Fans have an investment in their product. Opinions are welcome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-27 00:54 by The Sicilian.

A LIFE Keith Richards page 455 (LVS = Lead Vocal Syndrome)

If you combine congenital LVS with a nonstop bombardment of
flattery every waking moment over years and years,you can start to
believe the incoming. Even if you're not flattered by flattery or you're
anti-flattery, it will go to your head; it will do something to you. And
even if you don't completely believe it, you say, well, everybody else
does-I'll roll with it. You forget that it's just part of the job. It's
amazing how even quite sensible people like Mick Jagger could get
carried away by it. Actually believe they were special…

Mick had become uncertain, had started second-guessing his
own talent-that seemed,ironically, to be at the root of the self-inflation.

Mick Jagger reached the peak of his performance and sexual magnetism in the seventies with him snaking on the floor during Midnight Rambler and his pouty belting out of All Down the Line or Tumbling Dice. I was transfixed by his persona, I would go to midnight showings of Ladies and Gentlemen over and over. This is the Mick Jagger I relate to.

Correct me if I am wrong but he has made no statement other than a tweeted photo of Charlie in the 2 days since he died. Clearly they had a close relationship and he is no doubt affected. Could he not at least come and and make some heartfelt emotional pronouncement? The silence is loud.

Perhaps they could continue touring knowing that Charlie's absence was temporary, but now that it is permanent it is a whole different question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 19:49 by wavelength.

They can, and should roll on if it's what they feel like they need and/or want to do. However, it's simply not the Rolling Stones anymore, to me at least. I doubt I will go see them, not under the RS banner at any rate. Keith and Charlie are what it was all about for me.

We can debate the Stones' legacy and if or when they should have bowed out by now but I'm forever grateful that while the core 4 were still willing and (mostly) able to tour, they did. There were many great and memorable shows in the past several years that I didn't think I'd get. To be honest, I was hoping, though not necessarily hopeful that I'd get some more. Covid screwed up so much, the Stones 2020 tour included.

We don't know what happens next but without Charlie it just doesn't feel like something I want to go see anymore. Not to mention ticket prices, it was getting harder and harder to afford multiple shows and justify the prices I was paying to see them. Paying the same, or worse more without Charlie? Not for me.

At one point Roger Waters declared Pink Floyd a "spent force" and left. Later there was some musing about a reunion but Richard Wright passed suddenly. Inconceivable without him, they called it off and all declared it was officially over. They individually went on to do their own thing occasionally playing together but not as Pink Floyd. That is what the RS should do.

The remaining members of Rolling Stones will decide what happens.
Good scenario would be to do the contracted shows as announced with substitute drummer (Jordan), then do some anniversary shows in Hyde Park or Europe next year and meanwhile release the new album, preferably the tracks where Charlie still contributed. It can be an album with less tracks if necessary (depends on how much material with Charlie they've got).

And then, just say that's all the Rolling Stones can do, and we can play sometimes as Mick, Keith and Ron, if health and time allows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 20:14 by jumpingjackflash5.

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GerardHennessy

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JumpingKentFlash

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wavelength
It has been one decades long ego trip for Mick Jagger. When he couldn't make it on his own solo he fell back into the Rolling Stones fold. They guy is so self-centered and full of himself, He lives in the MJ bubble. KR goes into it in his book. I don't think he knows how to express empathy. When Bowie died the only thing he could think of saying when interviewed is something to the effect that he had fun times partying with him. Nothing about Bowie's work or his incredible talent. To express something to this effect might somehow diminish his own status. It had to be about MJ. And that is what is going to motivate him in the future: me, my fame and my fortune. He could be interesting and had some authenticity and sincerity in the sixties and seventies but he has become a robot.

My my my. Who pissed in your coffee?

I don't think anyone did interfere with the coffee. The man is making a very valid series of points. I honestly doubt there will be any kind of PROPER dedication to Charlie on any of the so-called 'tribute' concerts. The Stones don't DO emotion. Or real feeling. That would get in the way of the performance.

And please can we park the 'stop disrespecting Mick, Keith and Ronnie' stuff that is being proclaimed when anyone expresses a view about stopping. We are FANS and we have every right to say what we think. Just as those who disagree with us have exactly the same right too. Surely after the time, money, love and affection we have given to the band over so many years our views should count for SOMETHING.

One other thing. I've seen one or two comments about Charlie being Mick's 'best friend' News to me, and it is something I very much doubt. Mick Jagger is a businessman, with the detachment of one such. While I have no doubt he is sad at Charlie's passing I doubt he will be cut up about it. The facts suggest Mick is already working on a damage-limitation exercise designed to keep the show on the road.

This assumption is as ridiculous as it possibly can be. No time being a fan, money spent on them, love and affection have earned you a share in their decision making process! It is their band, not ours.

Of course, you, like anybody, can voice your opinion. But it's just TWO DAYS after Charlie's passing, and some people here have nothing better to do than theorizing on the Stones' future, telling them what to do or not to do, some even pissing in Jagger's direction, accusing him of a lack of empathy, when at the same time, Charlie's family and the remaining band members are silently mourning. It shows not only total disrespect towards the remaining band, but also towards Charlie and his family in particular.

As if the future of the Rolling Stones is of any importance RIGHT NOW! Wait for an official statement from the band concerning their future. That will be the appropriate time for discussions. Not RIGHT NOW!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 20:17 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog

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GerardHennessy

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JumpingKentFlash

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wavelength
It has been one decades long ego trip for Mick Jagger. When he couldn't make it on his own solo he fell back into the Rolling Stones fold. They guy is so self-centered and full of himself, He lives in the MJ bubble. KR goes into it in his book. I don't think he knows how to express empathy. When Bowie died the only thing he could think of saying when interviewed is something to the effect that he had fun times partying with him. Nothing about Bowie's work or his incredible talent. To express something to this effect might somehow diminish his own status. It had to be about MJ. And that is what is going to motivate him in the future: me, my fame and my fortune. He could be interesting and had some authenticity and sincerity in the sixties and seventies but he has become a robot.

My my my. Who pissed in your coffee?

I don't think anyone did interfere with the coffee. The man is making a very valid series of points. I honestly doubt there will be any kind of PROPER dedication to Charlie on any of the so-called 'tribute' concerts. The Stones don't DO emotion. Or real feeling. That would get in the way of the performance.

And please can we park the 'stop disrespecting Mick, Keith and Ronnie' stuff that is being proclaimed when anyone expresses a view about stopping. We are FANS and we have every right to say what we think. Just as those who disagree with us have exactly the same right too. Surely after the time, money, love and affection we have given to the band over so many years our views should count for SOMETHING.

One other thing. I've seen one or two comments about Charlie being Mick's 'best friend' News to me, and it is something I very much doubt. Mick Jagger is a businessman, with the detachment of one such. While I have no doubt he is sad at Charlie's passing I doubt he will be cut up about it. The facts suggest Mick is already working on a damage-limitation exercise designed to keep the show on the road.

This assumption is as ridiculous as it possibly can be. No time being a fan, money spent on them, love and affection have earned you a share in their decision making process! It is their band, not ours.

Of course, you, like anybody, can voice your opinion. But it's just TWO DAYS after Charlie's passing, and some people here have nothing better to do than theorizing on the Stones' future, telling them what to do or not to do, some even pissing in Jagger's direction, accusing him of a lack of empathy, when at the same time, Charlie's family and the remaining band members are silently mourning. It shows not only total disrespect towards the remaining band, but also towards Charlie and his family in particular.

As if the future of the Rolling Stones is of any importance RIGHT NOW! Wait for an official statement from the band concerning their future. That will be the appropriate time for discussions. Not RIGHT NOW!

I wrote above what would be the good scenario.
But, ultimately, what will happen is a decision of Mick, Keith and Ronnie.
Fans can decide if they buy tickets or not.
I still hope that they manage this final phase of their unprecedented career with decency.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 20:26 by jumpingjackflash5.

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retired_dog

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GerardHennessy

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JumpingKentFlash

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wavelength
It has been one decades long ego trip for Mick Jagger. When he couldn't make it on his own solo he fell back into the Rolling Stones fold. They guy is so self-centered and full of himself, He lives in the MJ bubble. KR goes into it in his book. I don't think he knows how to express empathy. When Bowie died the only thing he could think of saying when interviewed is something to the effect that he had fun times partying with him. Nothing about Bowie's work or his incredible talent. To express something to this effect might somehow diminish his own status. It had to be about MJ. And that is what is going to motivate him in the future: me, my fame and my fortune. He could be interesting and had some authenticity and sincerity in the sixties and seventies but he has become a robot.

My my my. Who pissed in your coffee?

I don't think anyone did interfere with the coffee. The man is making a very valid series of points. I honestly doubt there will be any kind of PROPER dedication to Charlie on any of the so-called 'tribute' concerts. The Stones don't DO emotion. Or real feeling. That would get in the way of the performance.

And please can we park the 'stop disrespecting Mick, Keith and Ronnie' stuff that is being proclaimed when anyone expresses a view about stopping. We are FANS and we have every right to say what we think. Just as those who disagree with us have exactly the same right too. Surely after the time, money, love and affection we have given to the band over so many years our views should count for SOMETHING.

One other thing. I've seen one or two comments about Charlie being Mick's 'best friend' News to me, and it is something I very much doubt. Mick Jagger is a businessman, with the detachment of one such. While I have no doubt he is sad at Charlie's passing I doubt he will be cut up about it. The facts suggest Mick is already working on a damage-limitation exercise designed to keep the show on the road.

This assumption is as ridiculous as it possibly can be. No time being a fan, money spent on them, love and affection have earned you a share in their decision making process! It is their band, not ours.

Of course, you, like anybody, can voice your opinion. But it's just TWO DAYS after Charlie's passing, and some people here have nothing better to do than theorizing on the Stones' future, telling them what to do or not to do, some even pissing in Jagger's direction, accusing him of a lack of empathy, when at the same time, Charlie's family and the remaining band members are silently mourning. It shows not only total disrespect towards the remaining band, but also towards Charlie and his family in particular.

As if the future of the Rolling Stones is of any importance RIGHT NOW! Wait for an official statement from the band concerning their future. That will be the appropriate time for discussions. Not RIGHT NOW!

Dear of dear! Such impatience and anger because some of us Stones fans have expressed our opinions. Opinions that differ from your own.

The band is not some kind of Sacred Artefact never to be touched by comment or criticism. Protected from the comments of mere 'consumers' and 'customers' who count for little except as a source of finance. The Rolling Stones are a ROCK BAND. Not deities. Not untouchables. And like all rock bands they depend on fans to support them, buy their products, attend their concerts, purchase their memorabilia and merchandise. Telling us to keep our hands off is rather beside the point do you not think? Should we also keep away when they tour? Bring out a new product? Comment on a recording or album they have released.? That is fandom, whether you like it or not.

Of course we are not entitled to MAKE decisions, and I have never said as such. But we have a right to express our VIEWS and OPINIONS as often and as robustly as we like. Just as you have done regarding what I, and some others have said here. This cuts both ways.

Finally I see no lack of respect here towards Charlie or the band. We are all fans for Heaven's sake. And because it is a democracy there are, quite understandably, many different opinions on offer about what we THINK should happen next.

Long may it continue. There is passion here. There is debate, argument, and some disagreement. But that is not showing disrespect. It does, however, show we all care.

Yes; time to stop. Overdue. It's already borderline like a dog licking the same spot on its leg until it becomes bald and bloody.

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WorriedAboutYou
You're confusing emotion and feelings with the motivation behind running an enormous corporate business like the Rolling Stones who employs hundreds of people.

Could you be more patronizing?

That people see things differently in no way translates to your having a God's eye understanding of reality that's eluding others who are in a bewildered cloud of emotionality.

-swiss

What I think the prudent thing to do is cancel the tour if it isn’t going to cause too large a loss to those that get paid outside of the band since covid numbers are skyrocketing in most places and will be far worse within the days and months to come and could also lead everyone involved in the tour to fall ill as well. Take time to properly grieve meet up in early next year finish the album ( using Charlie’s basic drum tracks left behind and have Jordon do any potential over dubs) get it out by early summer as their swan song and play a few selects gigs in London to coincide with the 60th anniversary and hold them as tributes to Charlie maybe have a few guest drummers who cited Charlie as a major influence then get everything out as a Christmas package by the end of the year (2022) then formally announce that they are disbanding as a functioning unit after 60 years. It’s a dignified classy way to go out and is respectful too and the shows should be the old style pay per view so we all have access. It’s a watermark that would never be achieved by any other band. Dignity must stand for something. I’d hate to see it turn out like other huge bands that still go out and market themselves as who they are when there are only a couple of members left. It should be a band thing.

"If there's no Charlie, there's no Stones. I wouldn't want to go on if he's not there." - Keith Richards

Except the band as a whole, and with the blessing of Charlie, had already agreed to do a mini-tour without Charlie and still using the name "Rolling Stones." (That said, covid may still necessitate cancelling the mini-tour anyways.)

Keith, Ronnie and Mick are going to play as long as they feel they can, or at least as long as they feel able to deliver the goods live.

It's silly and presumptuous to declare that none of the surviving members should play Stones' songs together (or be billed as The Rolling Stones) since Charlie's gone, when they were about to do that anyways, even if Charlie hadn't died.

Regardless, they're going to keep on playing however much they feel like playing and it's just a case of semantics whether it's called "The Rolling Stones" or "Mick, Keith, Ronnie and Friends." They're still going to play Stones' songs and the merchandise table is still going to have Stones' tongue t-shirts, etc.

Let them proceed how they want, let them be called what they want, and let them take however long they want in making any kind of statement on the future. We have absolutely no say in the matter, nor should we.

"Yes; time to stop. Overdue. It's already borderline like a dog licking the same spot on its leg until it becomes bald and bloody."

Good one.

Yes, we shall wait for band's decision. The Rolling Stones owe us nothing. We have been very lucky to get all these shows since 2012.

They can do the planned shows and then some farewell shows in Europe/England next year. And release the album in whatever length the recorded material allows. These things make sense considering the logic and artistic potential of current situation.
Anything more would be some new project which might or might not be called the Rolling Stones.

But all depends on their will.

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jumpingjackflash5
Yes, we shall wait for band's decision. The Rolling Stones owe us nothing. We have been very lucky to get all these shows since 2012.

They can do the planned shows and then some farewell shows in Europe/England next year. And release the album in whatever length the recorded material allows. These things make sense considering the logic and artistic potential of current situation.
Anything more would be some new project which might or might not be called the Rolling Stones.

But all depends on their will.

We have been very lucky to get all these shows since much more years, I think.

But hasn't it been already decided? OK, these are not official sources, but then ...

The Mirror: The remaining Rolling Stones have paid heartfelt tribute to Charlie Watts as they vowed to go ahead with their US tour in the drummer’s memory. Despite their heartache, a source said: “It goes without saying” that the band would play the No Filter tour, which was derailed last year by Covid. He said: “They will want to honour him and celebrate his amazing musical legacy. They will want to do Charlie proud.”

The US SUN: But the band has decided the show must go on and plan to resume their US tour with a concert in St Louis, Missouri on 26 September. An insider said Charlie had already given his "blessing" for the tour to go ahead without him and he would have hated the thought of them cancelling shows because of him.

The Irish SUN: THE Rolling Stones plan to pay an emotional tribute to late drummer Charlie Watts on next month’s tour. ... The group have been devastated by 80-year-old Charlie’s death on Tuesday but insist he would have wanted them to continue their US tour. ... “Charlie had given them his blessing to tour without him following his operation, so they will honour his wishes.”




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 22:19 by waterrats.

Yes, but shows since 2012 were really extended bonus.

I think that they'll discuss it now again, sure they spoke about it before but now the new situation really happened.

well, the tour sticky's are down. may tell you something. if they play the shows, and it is 100% their decision that's one thing. but if they are in some kind of trap business wise, and are being forced to do these shows that's something else. why they just don't cancel dates for a tour that was suppose to have ended early last summer is a mystery. and quit bashing mick like he's some uncaring robot. if that's the way you feel why are you here.

Agree.

It's a discussion forum after all, are we not supposed to discuss?

You can be sure that the RS are not only mourning but engaging in intense discussions on how they are going to frame the future of the band. Why shouldn't we? As if what is said on this board will influence whatever decision they make.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 23:00 by wavelength.

They already said they'll go on. Decision made.

I can imagine Keith had enough after this tour, too painful. Just my intuition. A man of his word.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 23:04 by TheflyingDutchman.

I understand everyone's point of view and rightly here everyone expresses their opinion.
What I don't like is to insinuate a disrespect if they continue, or I've read that someone (I apologize but I don't remember the nickname) has doubts that Mick and Charlie were friends, Mick is a businessman. I don't know if Mick is a businessman, but even if he was, businessmen have friends, friendship is not the exclusive of the worker! Friendship when you are 70 and over is different than you have at 18, but friendship always is.
In the end I think the choice is theirs alone, however it is, Mick will continue to work on solo projects like Ronnie and Keith. Charlie wouldn't like certain comments, but on the other hand he was a gentleman.

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jumpingjackflash5
Yes, but shows since 2012 were really extended bonus.

Ok that's an opinion, nothing less, nothing more. It's your's and it's ok.

IMHO, I don't have the idea to tell, which shows the band played were a bonus or not. I just see a bunch of blood-and-bones-musicians who just love what they can do. Bonus or not. As musicians they are artists. They change and so does the band - even if they would have played with the same line-up since 1963, they would have sounded differnetly in the 70ies, 80ie, 90ies and so on.

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jumpingjackflash5
I think that they'll discuss it now again, sure they spoke about it before but now the new situation really happened.

Indeed. I can only imagine how they must feel.
I think, Charlie would agree with them playing a little bit more as long as it's possible and OK.

They can continue to play shows but it will be obvious to everyone that it's merely an afterthought, not extending their career anymore. They can celebrate that they started sixty years ago, but they won't be claiming to have made it to sixty years because they didn't.

[www.rollingstone.fr]

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AntoineParis
[www.rollingstone.fr]

=> "Rolling Stones tour dates to go as planned"

As expected the show goes on : [www.rollingstone.com]

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

I told you guys this tour is going to happen, i know what makes the boys tick, so many doubters, it's a bit sad that fans are so pessimistic about everything from covid, Steve Jordan, age, respect, guilt, decency, it's non stop negativity, and meanwhile the remaining Stones who are clearly up against all these obsticles and negative fans continue to carry on despite everything, at their age that deserves respect not criticism, the Stones have gone up in my estimation because they refuse to throw in the towel, good luck to them, in a months time everyone will be high on their performances and giving rave reviews, the very people that want this tour cancelled will be wishing they had tickets, Mark my words, see them while you can because this might be the last dozen shows ever, I'm sorry to say but there isn't always next year.

Well, Mick, Keith, and Ronnie can still go out and rock. But Charlie provided the roll.

I really (will) miss Charlie. period

But I won't discredit any other talented muscian's playing because he is not the person we miss so dearly.

That's unfair, IMHO.

Steve Jordan is a fine drummer (ask Charlie) and he will support the band as it's drummer member.

Call it The Rolling Stones #5 (depends on how you count) or anything, but if there's musicians playing soemthing worth hearing and seeing, I won't go there and tell them not to.

Let The Rolling Stones change themselves from time to time. BTW, they did so since the 60ies. Let them sound differently.

As long as they can still play from their hearts, I say: I'm glad to hear any note they still can give us.

I'm so VERY thankful for all those years I had the priviledge to be fan of this band. If they play on for another 1.5 years, I'm sittin' on top of the world!

For me to see the stones on stage without Charlie would be a huge heartbreak. Especially now that I know he won't be coming back. Can you imagine how heartbreaking it will be to see a concert in a few weeks with a tribute? Everyone will cry!
Maybe I'll change my mind when some time goes by, if they announce gigs in Europe next year.

Very lively discussion.
My take is that now that we're absorbing the loss of Charlie, it frees us up to acknowledge the band is over, too, and that creates all sorts of emotions. In one way, the extended fairytale of the Vegas era can now be looked at in a more critical light. There's also fear that this group of musicians, whose brand was built on friendship and loyalty to each other, will behave in a crass and cold manner. If so, does that mean we were fooled all these years?
For my part, I feel any sorts of 'tributes' and 'do it for Charlie' are ridiculous ideas that don't suit Mick and Keith. But I will be disappointed in Keith if he starts talking about putting a new band together, or some such line of jive. Jagger I have no expectations, not saying this negatively, but he's not a man who has normal human emotions.
The wild cards are the family members. Do Keith's daughters and Ronnie's wives want them to go out on the road in this emotional cauldron. These are fragile old men, after all.
The Stones never had plans to say goodbye. This is the goodbye. I hope they recognize it.