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Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Dougratajczak87 ()
Date: August 28, 2021 18:35

Quote
bam
Well, Mick, Keith, and Ronnie can still go out and rock. But Charlie provided the roll.

100%

Just listen to this cover of Gimme Shelter by Jason Isbell and 400 Unit for comparison

[www.jambase.com]

Charlie played drums in such a unique style that kept the band humming along yet in some regards it was like the drums weren’t even there. He perfectly blended his drums to the music so that in most instances, they are very hard to pick out of the mix imo. Truly a drummer that served the songs.

Now I do think you Steve Jordan will do well and blend his style with some aspects of Charlie’s so that the drums don’t stick out too much, but it’s 100% going to be different which I didn’t really understand myself until listening to the drums on the cover above.

Poster above nails it.

Stones without Charlie will rock but they’ll be missing the roll.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-28 18:36 by Dougratajczak87.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: JimmyTheSaint ()
Date: August 28, 2021 18:44

I think so. It's not the Stones without Charlie, IMO.

They should bill themselves as Jagger/Richards if they want to go forward together.

Jagger would have no difficulty putting together an all-star band to back him on a solo tour while Keith has the Winos if they both feel the need to perform.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: August 28, 2021 19:12

OMG....why would they stop?....keep rolling!!!!...see you guys in Tampa on 10/29...can't wait for the show.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: August 28, 2021 19:19

Keep on Rolling if that’s what you want to do. Some people still argue it hasn’t been the same band since Brian Jones.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: StonedAsiaExile ()
Date: August 28, 2021 19:20

I just watched 'Under the Influence' again. Keith seems to really like Steve Jordan so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's a great drummer but he (IMHO) doesn't have the touch or feel that Charlie has. He fits well with Keith's solo stuff but with the Stones...........hmmmm

I guess we will see soon enough.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 19:50

This "some people think it's not the Stones anymore without Brian Jones" is not the argument you think it is

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:05

Quote
Nikkei
I have to say I am very glad I went back to see them in 2018. A high note to close the book on. In 2017 I witnessed an empty husk of a band and I was convinced they had taken it a bridge to far. I would have always been sad if that was the end because it sure felt like that. I don't really wanna risk another experience like that, but on the other hand they did prove they were able to bounce back. So they might prove me wrong once more, but the chances for that seem very slim now.

Saw them in Seattle 2019 and was thrilled I did, especially if it was the last time. Magic show.

That said, Keith was just window dressing. It was the Mick/Ronnie/Charlie show with fab support from the extended band.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Dougratajczak87 ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:12

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Nikkei
I have to say I am very glad I went back to see them in 2018. A high note to close the book on. In 2017 I witnessed an empty husk of a band and I was convinced they had taken it a bridge to far. I would have always been sad if that was the end because it sure felt like that. I don't really wanna risk another experience like that, but on the other hand they did prove they were able to bounce back. So they might prove me wrong once more, but the chances for that seem very slim now.

Saw them in Seattle 2019 and was thrilled I did, especially if it was the last time. Magic show.

That said, Keith was just window dressing. It was the Mick/Ronnie/Charlie show with fab support from the extended band.

Same.

Now that Charlie is no longer with us, I’m very happy with Chicago Night 1 (tour opener) as my final memory with the band.

Ronnie and Mick will have a lot of work to do on this tour to carry the shows without Charlie.

Hopefully Steve will be able to help as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-28 20:15 by Dougratajczak87.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:16

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Nikkei
I have to say I am very glad I went back to see them in 2018. A high note to close the book on. In 2017 I witnessed an empty husk of a band and I was convinced they had taken it a bridge to far. I would have always been sad if that was the end because it sure felt like that. I don't really wanna risk another experience like that, but on the other hand they did prove they were able to bounce back. So they might prove me wrong once more, but the chances for that seem very slim now.

Saw them in Seattle 2019 and was thrilled I did, especially if it was the last time. Magic show.

That said, Keith was just window dressing. It was the Mick/Ronnie/Charlie show with fab support from the extended band.

Keith in 2018 was probably the biggest surprise for me. I had no expectations for his SFTD solo, because that would have been foolish. He was already halfway through when I realized that something was off and it was not only more than decent but in fact "better than ever" I just pulled it up on YT [youtu.be] and it really would be nitpicking to find anything wrong with it. He came in late both times but seemed hyper-determined. That is pretty amazing if you think about it.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:18

Seriously I'm dazzled right now. Watch it until the end, he really pulls out all the stops [youtu.be]

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:19

maybe it SHOULD continue. I really can't say

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 28, 2021 21:05

They should do whatever they feel is right, but wondering if and when the band will make some formal statement regarding the band's future.
And I keep thinking back to this excerpt from a Rolling Stones article that was posted several days ago...

Charlie

Keith Richards tells me, more than once, that Watts is essentially the reason that he still plays with Mick Jagger, and the reason the Rolling Stones endure so well and renew so effectively.
Jagger, too, has said he can’t imagine the band continuing without Watts. The Rolling Stones could survive the loss of guitarists Brian Jones and Mick Taylor, and the departure of bassist Bill Wyman.
They can withstand years of a world’s distance apart from one another. But they can’t imagine truly being the Rolling Stones without Charlie Watts.
Watts is similar-minded: “They are the only people I want to play rock & roll with.”

-----------------------------------------------


Whatever they decide is obviously their choice, but I'm still not sure how I'd feel about seeing them live.
I was on the fence when it was announced Charlie was sick, but now even less sure considering his passing...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-28 21:09 by Hairball.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: bv ()
Date: August 28, 2021 22:02

That is not for us to decide.
They may roll on as long as they wish.

Bjornulf

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 28, 2021 22:31

Quote

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 27, 2021 02:32

Very lively discussion.
My take is that now that we're absorbing the loss of Charlie, it frees us up to acknowledge the band is over, too, and that creates all sorts of emotions. In one way, the extended fairytale of the Vegas era can now be looked at in a more critical light. There's also fear that this group of musicians, whose brand was built on friendship and loyalty to each other, will behave in a crass and cold manner. If so, does that mean we were fooled all these years?
For my part, I feel any sorts of 'tributes' and 'do it for Charlie' are ridiculous ideas that don't suit Mick and Keith. But I will be disappointed in Keith if he starts talking about putting a new band together, or some such line of jive. Jagger I have no expectations, not saying this negatively, but he's not a man who has normal human emotions.
The wild cards are the family members. Do Keith's daughters and Ronnie's wives want them to go out on the road in this emotional cauldron. These are fragile old men, after all.
The Stones never had plans to say goodbye. This is the goodbye. I hope they recognize it.


my god he's a human being who just lost a man he has known and worked closely with for 60 years i mean he wept when brian died and he could hardly stand him plus he knew brian 1/5 of the time he knew watts
and i don't want to come off as a jagger apologist he can be a huge dick to his fans, bandmates, and even his own family but he is not a sociopath i don't think some of the things being said here about him are in very good taste considering charlie just died i'm not saying you shouldn't be able to say these things but please maybe just give it a week or two

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 22:46

Mick is a much more humble guy than many of you give him credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if he praised the lord daily for having fans and all that.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:00

Quote
bv

That is not for us to decide.

At least we can decide for us personally if we wanna continue follow them with a new line-up or if there's no Stones anymore without Charlie.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:08

Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 27, 2021 02:32

Very lively discussion.
My take is that now that we're absorbing the loss of Charlie, it frees us up to acknowledge the band is over, too, and that creates all sorts of emotions. In one way, the extended fairytale of the Vegas era can now be looked at in a more critical light. There's also fear that this group of musicians, whose brand was built on friendship and loyalty to each other, will behave in a crass and cold manner. If so, does that mean we were fooled all these years?
For my part, I feel any sorts of 'tributes' and 'do it for Charlie' are ridiculous ideas that don't suit Mick and Keith. But I will be disappointed in Keith if he starts talking about putting a new band together, or some such line of jive. Jagger I have no expectations, not saying this negatively, but he's not a man who has normal human emotions.
The wild cards are the family members. Do Keith's daughters and Ronnie's wives want them to go out on the road in this emotional cauldron. These are fragile old men, after all.
The Stones never had plans to say goodbye. This is the goodbye. I hope they recognize it.


my god he's a human being who just lost a man he has known and worked closely with for 60 years i mean he wept when brian died and he could hardly stand him plus he knew brian 1/5 of the time he knew watts
and i don't want to come off as a jagger apologist he can be a huge dick to his fans, bandmates, and even his own family but he is not a sociopath i don't think some of the things being said here about him are in very good taste considering charlie just died i'm not saying you shouldn't be able to say these things but please maybe just give it a week or two


it NEVER ceases to amaze me to what lengths people will go to say the most ridiculous things about Jagger...especially since they don't know him one iota..is it any wonder he goes to the degree he does to insulate himself form idiotic comments like the one you so perfectly highlighted from the poster above....SMH......whatever they decide to do....I'm sure they will make the right decision.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Travman87 ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:24

Agreed BV. I selfishly hope they come and do a couple of shows at Wembley stadium as a tribute to the ‘Wembley whammer’ Charlie Watts next July to coincide with the 60th anniversary or somewhere else in London an then potentially finish there. Or they could just do another European tour, who knows but that’s what i hope they do

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:36

There is one scenario that no one is prepared to stick their neck out and admit, that regardless of how great Charlie was as a drummer, he was well past his best since 2012, and that its possible the Stones will sound better with a younger stronger drummer.
Just saying, its very likely, but no one seems to have the attitude that Charlie was blessed to work with the Stones, they gave him a job and purpose right up to the end and enabled him riches he never dreamed of, he led a blessed life and didn't even have to pull his weight in interviews and promotion, they respected that that wasn't Charlie's style.
I don't think anyone can begrudge Mick and Keith continuing, they earned it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-28 23:38 by Rocktiludrop.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:51

Why do they have to go on? For what reason? Haven't you heard the Greatest Hits delivered enough times? No group lasted as long. No group will, at least for a long, long time.

Steve Jordan is an okay drummer. Too much trash can cymbals for me. He was good enough for Keith's solo albums, but he's not Charlie Watts. No one is. It was enough for them to lose the magic when Bill retired. It was never the same. Now it will be even less. The band has always been about chemistry. Brian Wilson can do his Greatest Beach Boy hits because most of the instrumentation was done by crack studio musicians.

The Stones have always been the whole being bigger than the individual parts. Even Mick couldn't make it on his own as a solo artist. The whole sound was based on three people, Charlie, Bill, and Keith. There's only one leg left on the three legged stool. There's no one to wobble with. They've done it all, many times over. Let it go. There is no 60th anniversary. Mortality called.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:53

Quote
Rocktiludrop
There is one scenario that no one is prepared to stick their neck out and admit, that regardless of how great Charlie was as a drummer, he was well past his best since 2012, and that its possible the Stones will sound better with a younger stronger drummer.
Just saying, its very likely, but no one seems to have the attitude that Charlie was blessed to work with the Stones, they gave him a job and purpose right up to the end and enabled him riches he never dreamed of, he led a blessed life and didn't even have to pull his weight in interviews and promotion, they respected that that wasn't Charlie's style.
I don't think anyone can begrudge Mick and Keith continuing, they earned it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I certainly never heard anyone here complain about Charlie's skills dropping off.
And this is a crowd who is known to complain about every aspect of a performance including how they line up for the final bow winking smiley

As far as "pulling his weight", that strikes me as a cheap shot.
Wasn't fond of talking to the reporters or cameras, but also was defecto art director behind the scenes for decades, involved and consulted on stage design etc. etc.

I don't begrudge the Glimmers a damn thing either, but not at the expense of rewriting history or minimizing the skills or involvement of the others.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:55

Quote

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: August 28, 2021 20:16

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Nikkei
I have to say I am very glad I went back to see them in 2018. A high note to close the book on. In 2017 I witnessed an empty husk of a band and I was convinced they had taken it a bridge to far. I would have always been sad if that was the end because it sure felt like that. I don't really wanna risk another experience like that, but on the other hand they did prove they were able to bounce back. So they might prove me wrong once more, but the chances for that seem very slim now.

Saw them in Seattle 2019 and was thrilled I did, especially if it was the last time. Magic show.

That said, Keith was just window dressing. It was the Mick/Ronnie/Charlie show with fab support from the extended band.

Keith in 2018 was probably the biggest surprise for me. I had no expectations for his SFTD solo, because that would have been foolish. He was already halfway through when I realized that something was off and it was not only more than decent but in fact "better than ever" I just pulled it up on YT [youtu.be] and it really would be nitpicking to find anything wrong with it. He came in late both times but seemed hyper-determined. That is pretty amazing if you think about it.

great performance and it gets at something i've suspected with keith for a while concerning the last couple year i think his decline in playing ability comes from boredom and laziness on his part onstage and him not practicing enough at home but when he wants to he can still knock it out of the park

and it gets to something else to i've been going back and forth about wether or not they should keep the band name and as someone else already pointed out it depends how they sound to me i think comes down to keith and steve if they can figure out how to make this sound good and like the stones then maybe i'd be more comfortable with them staying the stones part of me also would like to see some how for them to make every show from now on not just this tour or the 60th in someway about charlie to make sure they introduce him in every band intro and show his image on the screen at every final bow to make every show in there final years a tribute to him i don't know how that would be best done but if they could figure out some way to do it with respect and class that would be great


also as to there plans for next year i seem to remember several press reports from europe recently saying that they where close to booking several festival dates and if they did know about how bad off charlie was and still where going ahead with these plans sounds like they want to do more then a few shows next year

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: August 28, 2021 23:57

Jagger has been a public figure for damn near 60 years. If people think he is going to put together some tribute tour they haven't been paying attention.
They'll do these shows because otherwise they'd have to give money back, and then we'll see. I'm guessing they'll continue on until more tragedy strikes them. Maybe that's a noble thing, and I wouldn't argue with someody who wants that, but as a fan of the band, it's not for me.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Date: August 29, 2021 00:00

Quote
bv

They may roll on as long as they wish.

For the die-hard fans it takes two to tango. A matter of taste.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 29, 2021 00:01

People talk like this is 1994 when Bill left and was replaced by Darryl.

This isn't a long term replacement situation, obviously.
This is someone sitting in for Charlie, with his blessing even, for this leg, and perhaps to help celebrate their 60th.

Sure, we don't know for certain how long, but we can be pretty confident this is a relatively short amount of time.
Enjoy it, and help them celebrate and call it the end on their terms, I say.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: August 29, 2021 00:08

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
bv

They may roll on as long as they wish.

For the die-hard fans it takes two to tango. A matter of taste.

Not really. Maybe you meant it takes four (stones).

The "die hards" don't fill stadiums.
Be lucky if we could fill a club show or a pit at this stage.

So yes, really.
They can roll on as long as they want.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Date: August 29, 2021 00:33

Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
TheflyingDutchman

For the die-hard fans it takes two to tango. A matter of taste.

Not really. Maybe you meant it takes four (stones).

The "die hards" don't fill stadiums.
Be lucky if we could fill a club show or a pit at this stage.

So yes, really.
They can roll on as long as they want.

The "die-hards" do fill stadiums. It's over when either Jagger or Richards (or both ) quit. They can afford anyone to back them up as long as it sounds like the Stones. Easy for Jagger and Richards.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-29 01:27 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: bv ()
Date: August 29, 2021 03:38

EDITOR COMMENT:

If you quote on a quote which is quoted again and again then some times the level of aggression is increasing and then the post will be deleted. Please post with respect, and with a limited number of quotes nested. Thank you.

Bjornulf

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: wavelength ()
Date: August 29, 2021 04:52

I often read in this forum that "it is not for us (ie. the fans) to decide if they continue on or not". Obviously the actual decision is made by the band but how it comes about I think is heavily influenced by their perception and gauging of public response. MJ is particulalry image conscious. I would imagine at this point they are particularly concerned about their legacy, how it will end and be viewed. Will audiences show up? What is the message if they are playing in half-filled stadiums? What if god forbid another of them gets ill? How will the press react? The press and media have beeen pretty generous to them in these final years. What if they turn against them and they become villified and the object of ridicule?

They don't read this forum but they are clearly aware that opinion is not unanimous. So fans decide their fate to some extent. It will interesting to see how they spin it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-29 05:15 by wavelength.

Re: Is it time for the Stones to stop rolling?
Posted by: Woz ()
Date: August 29, 2021 06:11

Quote
24FPS
Why do they have to go on? For what reason? Haven't you heard the Greatest Hits delivered enough times? No group lasted as long. No group will, at least for a long, long time.

Steve Jordan is an okay drummer. Too much trash can cymbals for me. He was good enough for Keith's solo albums, but he's not Charlie Watts. No one is. It was enough for them to lose the magic when Bill retired. It was never the same. Now it will be even less. The band has always been about chemistry. Brian Wilson can do his Greatest Beach Boy hits because most of the instrumentation was done by crack studio musicians.

The Stones have always been the whole being bigger than the individual parts. Even Mick couldn't make it on his own as a solo artist. The whole sound was based on three people, Charlie, Bill, and Keith. There's only one leg left on the three legged stool. There's no one to wobble with. They've done it all, many times over. Let it go. There is no 60th anniversary. Mortality called.

Why do they go on? Because it is in their DNA. It’s what they do.

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