Tell Me :  Talk
Talk about your favorite band. 

Previous page Next page First page IORR home

For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: crawdaddy ()
Date: August 1, 2021 02:41

Been watching on TV tonight here in UK, before the Olympics live and thought this gig was on December 11th 1968.

I thought I had seen it on TV back then, but not generally released till the 90's sometime.
Always thought it was weird, for the most part, and not enjoyable apart from the Stones content. thumbs up

Glad I didn't buy the DVD as the only memorable performance was The Stones,especially Mick, Taj Mahal,Keith, John Lennon and Eric doing a couple of songs, the beautiful Marianne Faithfull, and back then was such a long time ago. smileys with beer

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 1, 2021 02:51

the who and dirty mac where great

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 1, 2021 04:55

The Stones content is not great, except for a couple songs, like Parachute Woman. They were exhausted by the time they recorded their bit. It's an extremely sad document on Brian's disintegration. Still, he delivered his slide part on No Expectations.

The Dirty Mac was great. All the groups were great, with the Who probably best of all. So glad we finally got to see it. I remember reading articles about it in the early 70s, when it was this mythical thing no one could see.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: August 1, 2021 09:31

It’s a time piece and as such has its value. I already had a video of it decades before it was officially released. Together with “One Plus One” they now to me are merely documents showing Brian’s downfall, but I can still enjoy the musical input of the different acts.
Word is that Mick thought that the Who were too good and the Stones poor. I think there werd other reasons for not releasing it (ABKCO troubles ?).

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 1, 2021 10:40

The Who stuff didnt do a cracker for me ...

Lurved the Stones decadence and weariness ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: August 1, 2021 12:11

Yep Rockman, the Stones (and in particular Mick) were as "mean" as you want them to be (Sympathy!!!). Parachute Woman, only done once live in Boston 2002 is, especially because of the latter, permanently glued to my heart winking smiley, not to mention "Brian's" No Expectations!
smileys with beer

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: August 1, 2021 12:50

Quote
24FPS
The Stones content is not great, except for a couple songs, like Parachute Woman. They were exhausted by the time they recorded their bit. It's an extremely sad document on Brian's disintegration. Still, he delivered his slide part on No Expectations.

The Dirty Mac was great. All the groups were great, with the Who probably best of all. So glad we finally got to see it. I remember reading articles about it in the early 70s, when it was this mythical thing no one could see.

I bought the 4 disc deluxe box for 11 Euros from amazon Spain and I think that's a fair price for what you get

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: August 1, 2021 15:41

Don`t you remember there has just been a take on this?

[iorr.org]

Mick comes across as very mean. It`s a little circus, probably rushed together in the studio. Gaudy colors and steamy atmosphere...

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: August 1, 2021 17:00

Other than Mick , the band seemed exhausted.They should have waited till the next day to shoot their performances.And Keith didn’t play all that great either

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: August 1, 2021 17:27

I watched this on Sky last night - advert breaks after every two songs were brutal and ruined it.

Do we know who played on Marianne's song? Great music.

Jagger and Lennon were awkward together, Dirty Mac only really notable for Keith on bass.

Jagger came across as being cynical and a bit patronising throughout, he really didn't connect. Weak performance and yes I know they were up for days.

Taj Mahal were the best act by far.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: August 1, 2021 17:58

My take is completely different. You have a band that hadn't played live in a year and a half playing songs that were completely new handcuffed by only one person playing guitar in front of an audience that wasn't just a bunch of screaming teens. I think it's amazing. The colors are wonderful and a perfect capturing of the late 60's coming of age Stones. Keith was proving he was a guitar player at his technical best from this point through the 1971 tour (where his playing reached it's absolute zenith). Mick was not perfect but it was a totally new experience. The quality of the filming was great (I believe by the BBC but not sure). Overall I think it captures a moment in time that could never be recreated. It reached a legendary status because of the delayed release but I believe it is wonderful!!!!

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: redkev ()
Date: August 1, 2021 18:08

When I compare a band like the Who to the Stones I always think of Keith's comment about the importance of the roll in rock 'n' roll. Some bands seem to rely more on power, volume, distortion etc whereas with the Stones the groove is at least as important as all those elements.

I like the Who and have seen them a couple of times and they're very good but they're definitely not a band who make you want to dance. They're more of a listening band, nodding your head along, appreciating the impact and playing styles (especially of the original members). But at Stones gigs it's impossible, for me anyway, not to dance and it then becomes an experience on a physical as well as an emotional level.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: crawdaddy ()
Date: August 1, 2021 18:17

It's on Sky Arts Freeview channel again on Friday night and may give it another go.

I was convinced I seen it back at the time it was filmed, but may have been snippets of it on TV back then.
The whole programme doesn't rate as a 'must have' for most music fans in my opinion, but different likes for different people.
The Tami Show and Ladies and Gentlemen are two faves of mine, and great music that brings back many good memories. thumbs up
I still like The Stones performance more than The Who, and Taj Mahal and his band were great. thumbs up

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: ovalvox ()
Date: August 2, 2021 01:14

Quote
yearsinthemaking
My take is completely different. You have a band that hadn't played live in a year and a half playing songs that were completely new handcuffed by only one person playing guitar in front of an audience that wasn't just a bunch of screaming teens. I think it's amazing. The colors are wonderful and a perfect capturing of the late 60's coming of age Stones. Keith was proving he was a guitar player at his technical best from this point through the 1971 tour (where his playing reached it's absolute zenith). Mick was not perfect but it was a totally new experience. The quality of the filming was great (I believe by the BBC but not sure). Overall I think it captures a moment in time that could never be recreated. It reached a legendary status because of the delayed release but I believe it is wonderful!!!!


A prominent member of this forum isolated Brian’s guitar and indeed proved he played and played properly. It’s on YouTube. He even demonstrated the parts Brian played.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: August 2, 2021 01:28

Also, a pre Black Sabbath Tony Iommi playing with Jethro Tull. I haven't watched it in a while but if I recall, the band wasn't playing live but Ian was singing live.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: August 2, 2021 02:45

Jagger supposedly didn’t want the Circus because the Stones performances were poor. Well that means Keith played poorly becausehe was the lead guitarist.People say Brian played poorly but so did Keith.Otherwise Mick would not have had a problem with it. IMO Keith solos. on Sympathy are poor .His playing on the other songs is no where as good as his playing on the 1969 tour

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Date: August 2, 2021 11:54

Quote
Taylor1
Jagger supposedly didn’t want the Circus because the Stones performances were poor. Well that means Keith played poorly becausehe was the lead guitarist.People say Brian played poorly but so did Keith.Otherwise Mick would not have had a problem with it. IMO Keith solos. on Sympathy are poor .His playing on the other songs is no where as good as his playing on the 1969 tour

I can't really fathom how it's possible to be a Stones fan and at the same time find Keith's playing on Rock'n'Roll Circus "poor".

Let's go through the songs:

JJF: My favourite live version. A dark groove, very different from the other versions. Mainly because Keith played it in standard tuning. One of the rare occasions where Mick actually is singing the right melody for JJF. Great!

Parachute Woman: A nice, electrified version where Keith is in charge of the groove and also plays some great leads. Far more complex than that of the studio version. Great!

No Expectations: Beatiful playing by Brian. Nice acoustic from Keith. The tune suffers a bit from being tranposed to a different key. Too high-pitched for Mick, unfortunately. Average.

YCAGWYW: Absolutely stunning version. The song is not released yet, but they're killing it. Keith plays in standard tuning and manages to blend the riff with the lead guitar lines we hear on the studio versions. Great!

SFTD: Almost as good as the studio version. Keith's lead lines on Ya-Yas are there already. He also plays some of the stuff he's playing on the studio version. The song grooves better than it would later on, thanks to Rocky and Nicky. Great!

Salt Of The Earth: Nice singing by Mick and Keith to a backing track.

If one must criticise Keith's playing for anything, it would be that his tone doesn't have enough level separation between rhythm and lead, imo. But that's semantics in this context.

Out of curiousity, what is it that you don't like with Keith's playing? I have always thought that Mick wasn't satisfied with his own performance, hence they scrapped the release.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2021 12:07

Quote
ovalvox
Quote
yearsinthemaking
My take is completely different. You have a band that hadn't played live in a year and a half playing songs that were completely new handcuffed by only one person playing guitar in front of an audience that wasn't just a bunch of screaming teens. I think it's amazing. The colors are wonderful and a perfect capturing of the late 60's coming of age Stones. Keith was proving he was a guitar player at his technical best from this point through the 1971 tour (where his playing reached it's absolute zenith). Mick was not perfect but it was a totally new experience. The quality of the filming was great (I believe by the BBC but not sure). Overall I think it captures a moment in time that could never be recreated. It reached a legendary status because of the delayed release but I believe it is wonderful!!!!


A prominent member of this forum isolated Brian’s guitar and indeed proved he played and played properly. It’s on YouTube. He even demonstrated the parts Brian played.

What was shown that Brian did play guitar, whereas it was believed (also by me) that he didn't play at all, or that his amp was off. What was also shown was that what Brian played was just incredible simple, and for parts off, awkward and strange.

Mathijs

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: August 2, 2021 13:32

[youtu.be]
Full concert in HD from ARTE, might be geoblocked in countries other than Germany and France.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: August 2, 2021 15:21

If Brian’s playing was so simple, assuming he was not turned off , who is playing his parts? Keith overdubs? And why would Keith play so “simple”.On the other hand, please tell me what is so complex or interesting about any of Keith’s solos.Parachute Woman? Sympathy for the Devil? I don’t like the tone or performances of Keith’s guitars.And I don’t like the Jj Flash here either .Give me the incendiary performances from 1972 to 1975 with Taylor and Wood

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Date: August 2, 2021 15:29

Quote
Taylor1
If Brian’s playing was so simple, assuming he was not turned off , who is playing his parts? Keith overdubs? And why would Keith play so “simple”.On the other hand, please tell me what is so complex or interesting about any of Keith’s solos.Parachute Woman? Sympathy for the Devil? I don’t like the tone or performances of Keith’s guitars.And I don’t like the Jj Flash here either .Give me the incendiary performances from 1972 to 1975 with Taylor and Wood

Sounds like you don't like the Stones's sound in the 60s to me.

Complex? We're talking about Keith here. Interesting? To me, his playing in that era was very interesting indeed. That goes for the tone from his Black beauty and the Vox Supreme as well. The SFTD-tone is legendary.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 2, 2021 16:42

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Taylor1
If Brian’s playing was so simple, assuming he was not turned off , who is playing his parts? Keith overdubs? And why would Keith play so “simple”.On the other hand, please tell me what is so complex or interesting about any of Keith’s solos.Parachute Woman? Sympathy for the Devil? I don’t like the tone or performances of Keith’s guitars.And I don’t like the Jj Flash here either .Give me the incendiary performances from 1972 to 1975 with Taylor and Wood

Sounds like you don't like the Stones's sound in the 60s to me.

Complex? We're talking about Keith here. Interesting? To me, his playing in that era was very interesting indeed. That goes for the tone from his Black beauty and the Vox Supreme as well. The SFTD-tone is legendary.

Keith actually used a Triumph Rossetti Silicon 100 amp, he used this amp a lot for Let it Bleed as well, most notably on Midnight Rambler.

Mathijs

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Date: August 2, 2021 17:16

I was happy to see this being released. It gives us some of the songs live with Brian.

Regardless of his condition or playing ability it is still a piece of history worth releasing.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Mariuana ()
Date: August 2, 2021 17:22

I don't know how one can not love the Circus, especially Stones part. It's one of my favorite shows ever. Even with them totally exhausted and barely up on their feet by the time it was filmed, Mick was on fire that night. I love Charlie's performance as well. The Who did not do a thing to me to be honest. I think they overacted it.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Date: August 2, 2021 17:22

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Taylor1
If Brian’s playing was so simple, assuming he was not turned off , who is playing his parts? Keith overdubs? And why would Keith play so “simple”.On the other hand, please tell me what is so complex or interesting about any of Keith’s solos.Parachute Woman? Sympathy for the Devil? I don’t like the tone or performances of Keith’s guitars.And I don’t like the Jj Flash here either .Give me the incendiary performances from 1972 to 1975 with Taylor and Wood

Sounds like you don't like the Stones's sound in the 60s to me.

Complex? We're talking about Keith here. Interesting? To me, his playing in that era was very interesting indeed. That goes for the tone from his Black beauty and the Vox Supreme as well. The SFTD-tone is legendary.

Keith actually used a Triumph Rossetti Silicon 100 amp, he used this amp a lot for Let it Bleed as well, most notably on Midnight Rambler.

Mathijs

I know. I just mentioned the Supreme as an important part of his 1966-68-sound from that era.


Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: August 2, 2021 17:50

The Ron Wood JJ Flash performances from 1975 1978, 1989-1990,1994-1995 are all great, I like them a lot better than the Rick n Roll circus one.And I love Keith’s playing on all the 1960salbums.I just don’t like his playing at the Circus

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: crawdaddy ()
Date: August 2, 2021 17:51

Well! I'm glad to hear all the informative comments about The Stones performance on all their songs.

I must admit, I feel different now about the show, and feel it is an important part of The Rolling Stones history.

Love that photo of Keith.
I've got a pair of curtains in my flat with the same pattern of Keiths' pants/trousers


I'm really glad we have still got these songs on video and the DVD. smileys with beer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-02 17:58 by crawdaddy.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: August 2, 2021 22:46

The idea that the Who blew the Stones off their own stage is something I never bought into. I think this idea came from Mick, who like many artists, was being overly critical of himself and was unable to revisit the performance and see or hear it objectively, and then other people heard what he said and ran with it. Just my take on it.

They may have been a little rusty, but these are cool, funky versions of the songs. Parachute Woman has a Doors vibe. R&R Circus captures the Stones coming into their own, not just as musicians but as entertainers. It's a fascinating iteration of the band.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-02 22:48 by ryanpow.

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 3, 2021 00:33

I think the Who made a mistake performing that mini opera instead of doing dynamic hits like Legal Matter, but really the opera thing fit the circus theme better in a way. More noise would have woken the dozing right up.

jb

Re: Rock 'n Roll Circus December 11th 1968.
Posted by: terraplane ()
Date: August 3, 2021 10:52

I think it is a better listening experience than it is a visual experience.

JJF - Sounds cool but suffers from no audible second guitar. It comes to life when Nicky Hopkin's keyboard comes in at the outro.

Parachute Woman - Great but they should have let Brian play the harp as that was his greatest strength.

No Expectations - Worth buying the CD/DVD just for this.

YCAGWYW - Great. I like this better than the versions they did later with Mick Taylor.

Sympathy - It is great.

Salt of the Earth - Throwaway. They should have ditched this and included one of their earlier blues covers like King Bee, etc

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Online Users

Guests: 1591
Record Number of Users: 206 on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests: 9627 on January 2, 2024 23:10

Previous page Next page First page IORR home