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best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: July 29, 2021 03:49

hello
i was wondering what vintage carts (for those that collect and use them) everyone thinks sounds best with the stones i like vintage carts because most of the new ones that i've heard have a sort of cool clean sound i associate with digital media while vintage carts (50's - 80's) have more of the warm analog sound that i also like with tapes

currently i use a adc point 4 (from around 1964) not with original stylus since
they very rarley appear but instead a adc r6e stylus meant for a adc 660e which i thinks sounds great i find this cart sounds best with there stuff form the 60's (runners up in my collection that sound good with 60's stuff empire 880p & 888ve and for 45's audio technica at-6)

for the 70's to modern records i use either a empire 2000e/1 or a audio technica at13ea both with oem stylus

so what are your preferences and experiences



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-29 03:51 by ProfessorWolf.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 29, 2021 04:08

I have found the old Shure V15 Type IV has beautifully warm dampening and a nice full bass sound without the high frequency shatter I usually hear in Audio Technica and similar carts. Been a long time since I ran one, but I have a couple in questionable condition still with probably too worn styli. I now use the rough equivalent of the same Shure cartridge, I forget the exact nomenclature but it has the same smooth bass sound. Another benefit of this class of cartridge is it has built in stylus dampening and a built in dampened brush to help it track warped records and make up for other common anomalies in record surfaces and it will successfully track records that others will not.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: July 29, 2021 04:22

i've heard a lot about the legendary v15's (and i noticed bill uses one too in the silent one) but never seem to find a good one i can afford if you have some still and are looking for a stylus i've read the ones made by jico are supposed to be very good even better then shure originals supposedly

the only shure i have is a modern shure m92e not my favorite but its my only p mount cart so i put it on my realistic lab 2000 linear table and it sounds ok with that but am always looking for a better p mount cart

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 29, 2021 06:54

The authentic Shure replacement styli were always the gold standard but they have not been available for decades. So the replacements would have to do but I doubt they come up to the same standard, maybe though. I currently have two V15 type IV that I retired a long time ago because of possibly imagined defects. Only the styli keep me from repressing them into service.

Shure cartridges have the reputation of a Toyota Land Cruiser: will go anywhere for a very long time without complaint if maybe not quite up to A1 on the speed/sound quality. They are the DJs universal choice but not of course the higher line versions, but they are respected for their durability and their ability to move the bass speakers without sounding harsh.

Sounds like you already know all that though.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: Toru A ()
Date: July 29, 2021 07:39

Some rock musicians come to Japan just to buy these.
Koetsu
[www.koetsuaudio.com]

It's up to you if you feel these cartridge fit in with the Stones' music.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: July 29, 2021 09:08

I have a Stanton cartridge on a Denon turntable. Having said that, it's been a long time since I played vinyl.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: dmay ()
Date: July 29, 2021 18:01

Wow. This is pretty wonky stuff. Had no idea a particular phono cartridge could make or break a band's sound. I took it that the amplifier and speakers are what shapes your listening experience. Now, I have to consider if there is a replacement cartridge available for the 1960s era Magnavox hi-fi I crank up occasionally to play albums from my misspent youth.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 29, 2021 19:21

Quote
dmay
Wow. This is pretty wonky stuff. Had no idea a particular phono cartridge could make or break a band's sound. I took it that the amplifier and speakers are what shapes your listening experience. Now, I have to consider if there is a replacement cartridge available for the 1960s era Magnavox hi-fi I crank up occasionally to play albums from my misspent youth.


Good luck. Probably best if you just stick to listening to third gen MP3 files.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: July 30, 2021 03:59

Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones new
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: July 29, 2021 06:54

The authentic Shure replacement styli were always the gold standard but they have not been available for decades. So the replacements would have to do but I doubt they come up to the same standard, maybe though. I currently have two V15 type IV that I retired a long time ago because of possibly imagined defects. Only the styli keep me from repressing them into service.

Shure cartridges have the reputation of a Toyota Land Cruiser: will go anywhere for a very long time without complaint if maybe not quite up to A1 on the speed/sound quality. They are the DJs universal choice but not of course the higher line versions, but they are respected for their durability and their ability to move the bass speakers without sounding harsh.

Sounds like you already know all that though.

jb

I hope they don't think we're a rock 'n' roll outfit


not at all my knowledge of carts comes from shure talking the old guy who owns turntable treasures in tacoma wa and what read other people say online my experience with shure is limited to my m92e which didn't impress me much but i would like to try there m44 carts but they are so damn pricy for the good ones



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-30 04:03 by ProfessorWolf.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 1, 2021 01:16

Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: dmay ()
Date: July 29, 2021 18:01

Wow. This is pretty wonky stuff. Had no idea a particular phono cartridge could make or break a band's sound. I took it that the amplifier and speakers are what shapes your listening experience. Now, I have to consider if there is a replacement cartridge available for the 1960s era Magnavox hi-fi I crank up occasionally to play albums from my misspent youth.


sorry this took so long to respond to limited internet access
the amp & speaker indeed play a role but a different carts can make a huge difference in the sound quality
whether or not your old hifi can be upgraded depends greatly on what kind of arm it has and the adjustments that can be made if it looks something like this

then the sky is the limit you could use pretty much any cart made in the last 60 years including brand new ones and the variety made over that time ranges from different cart types (moving magnet, induced magnet, moving iron, moving coil etc.) right down to the stylus tip type (bonded, nude,) shape & size (conical, elliptical, shibabta, line contact etc.) all with there own sound
ranging in price from $40 to $20,000
and even if you don't have a arm like that on yours if you can find someone with the know how they can put one on it

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 1, 2021 01:19

Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: Toru A ()
Date: July 29, 2021 07:39

Some rock musicians come to Japan just to buy these.
Koetsu
[www.koetsuaudio.com]

It's up to you if you feel these cartridge fit in with the Stones' music.


for $2000 i'll stick with my adc
they look cool though

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 1, 2021 01:37

and jb this is from what i've read the single best option for the v15 type iv short of a oem stylus jico but they cost $225 more then i would spend but not sure how much a super rare new in box shure stylus would cost but got to be in that range and if you want to spend even more your could have your original stylus retipped provided the suspensions still good



now gettin back to the topic the best i've ever heard the stones sound was when i listened to my original copy of exile on a friend i knows turntable on which he was running a empire 4000d/iii cart with a oem stylus which is a quad cart but he had it set up for stereo and it blew my mind i've never heard sweet virginia sound that good this guy liked this cart so much when he got it back in the mid 70's he bought a dozen stylus replacements for it when empire went out of business in the early 80's and has used it on his table ever since

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 1, 2021 01:40

Have a Sota Sapphire but only an
Avante cartridge at the moment ...

Avante not great but fair attack ....

Havent had a moving-coil for some time but maybe one day soon ...



ROCKMAN

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 1, 2021 02:24

Perhaps the most important thing about a cartridge and stylus is that they are gentle on your records, and probably require little more than one gram weight to track just about anything North of a warpy Jamaican 70s vintage Studio 1 pressing with minimal problem. Good sound is essential but some that emit good sound actually scrape away the groove ruining records forever even when the cart is set up properly and the stylus new or newish. It is the point of contact where the rubber meets the road and especially a worn or damaged stylus will trash your record collection in no time flat.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 1, 2021 02:50

Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 1, 2021 02:24

Perhaps the most important thing about a cartridge and stylus is that they are gentle on your records, and probably require little more than one gram weight to track just about anything North of a warpy Jamaican 70s vintage Studio 1 pressing with minimal problem. Good sound is essential but some that emit good sound actually scrape away the groove ruining records forever even when the cart is set up properly and the stylus new or newish. It is the point of contact where the rubber meets the road and especially a worn or damaged stylus will trash your record collection in no time flat.

jb

I hope they don't think we're a rock 'n' roll outfit.


good point
thats why my main cart my adc point 4 has a ideal tracking force of 1.2 grams though it be better with a smaller stylus radius than its 3x7 elliptical
i think best case would be a low weight tracking cart with a very small tip like a line contact or shibabta

though i will say that early to mid sixties rock albums always sound more exciting to me with a small conical .6 mil or smaller like on my empire 880p but my worry is that it tracks rather high at 2 grams and genuine empire stylus are rare so i use it sparingly but when i do boy does out of our heads or aftermath sound great not as detailed as other carts but just more umph! and energy


Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 1, 2021 01:40

Have a Sota Sapphire but only an
Avante cartridge at the moment ...

Avante not great but fair attack ....

Havent had a moving-coil for some time but maybe one day soon ...



ROCKMAN


that sota sapphire is a cool looking table i use a pioneer pl-560 as my main table but i'm jealous of that wood grain


never had a moving coil to pricy but i have heard that the vintage ones can become a problem with age because they have built in rubber suspensions which can rot or stiffen over time but they can apparently be rebiult

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 1, 2021 05:21

I would like a UK broadcast transcription spec Garrard myself. The ones with the big heavy base and the long tonearms (to reduce tracking error).

Right now have a pair of Technics SL 1210 Mk II, the DJs choice, but also have a Thorens and a couple of Duals lying around that I bought new. I hardly ever discard stereo or audio equipment and have built up a pretty modest pile of vintage stuff, tube amplifiers and pre-amps, mixing boards, speakers, tape decks, crossovers and other valuable junk.

Don't have a working cassette player though and kind of need one. Good but cheap, you know how it is. Anything Nakamichi under 200 bucks would be fine.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 1, 2021 07:01

I love burning money on vinyl and turntables and cartridges and stylus's.

I have 7, low end to mostly mid range turntables spread out throughout the house with Ortofon or Audio Technica cartridges. A couple of Pro Ject's, An Audio Technica, a Technics, a Sony, and I can't recall the other two but one is from the early 70's, cheap as hell looking, on a aluminum pedestal under a smoke coloured acrylic dome. Very cool looking but sounds like sh*t through the two cannon ball speakers.

The one thing that I really have enjoyed is getting the AT cartridge with the swappable stylus', as I bought one for 78 speed shellac records. I've been buying them for some time and have maybe 50. The music isn't always to my 'taste' but there's something about listening to a recording from over 100 years ago on your hifi.

The sound is startling, given how primitive the recordings are and how old and battered some are. Some of those early pressings are amazing. They look like crap but still play alright.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Date: August 2, 2021 15:20

X2 on the Shure V15 Type IV

Mike


[www.flickr.com]

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 5, 2021 01:19

Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 1, 2021 05:21

I would like a UK broadcast transcription spec Garrard myself. The ones with the big heavy base and the long tonearms (to reduce tracking error).

Right now have a pair of Technics SL 1210 Mk II, the DJs choice, but also have a Thorens and a couple of Duals lying around that I bought new. I hardly ever discard stereo or audio equipment and have built up a pretty modest pile of vintage stuff, tube amplifiers and pre-amps, mixing boards, speakers, tape decks, crossovers and other valuable junk.

Don't have a working cassette player though and kind of need one. Good but cheap, you know how it is. Anything Nakamichi under 200 bucks would be fine.

jb

I hope they don't think we're a rock 'n' roll outfit.

i saw a nakamichi at goodwill about a month ago and not on the shelf but in someones cart i just missed it and for only $25 ahhh

i use a bunch of different cassette decks but my current favorite is this pioneer ct-f6161 from 1975 cool wacky tape loading mechanism and it weighs more then any deck i have ever seen and i mean by a long way it is very heavy
cleaned up the transport & pinch roller, replaced the belts, oiled the motor, replaced the old lube, changed all 5 fuses, and set the speed with the frequency counter program on my computer and it sounds great well worth the time and effort and it records well too



i would love to own one these tables just because it looks so cool and i have a thing for empire


Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 1, 2021 07:01

I love burning money on vinyl and turntables and cartridges and stylus's.

I have 7, low end to mostly mid range turntables spread out throughout the house with Ortofon or Audio Technica cartridges. A couple of Pro Ject's, An Audio Technica, a Technics, a Sony, and I can't recall the other two but one is from the early 70's, cheap as hell looking, on a aluminum pedestal under a smoke coloured acrylic dome. Very cool looking but sounds like sh*t through the two cannon ball speakers.

The one thing that I really have enjoyed is getting the AT cartridge with the swappable stylus', as I bought one for 78 speed shellac records. I've been buying them for some time and have maybe 50. The music isn't always to my 'taste' but there's something about listening to a recording from over 100 years ago on your hifi.

The sound is startling, given how primitive the recordings are and how old and battered some are. Some of those early pressings are amazing. They look like crap but still play alright.

are these like what your talking about treaclefingers cause wow looks like something you'd see in clockwork orange



i also love 78's i was given 5 milk crates full of country 78's from a women who collected them with her mother in oaklhoma in the 20's-40's and have nothing to play them on but a old 50's admiral hifi tracks at like 10 grams but considering that phonographs from the 20's and 30's could track at 100's of grams i don't think its to rough on them need to get me a turntable capable of 78rpm and one of those moving magnet 78 carts some day though



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-05 01:26 by ProfessorWolf.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 5, 2021 01:43

Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 1, 2021 05:21

I would like a UK broadcast transcription spec Garrard myself. The ones with the big heavy base and the long tonearms (to reduce tracking error).

Right now have a pair of Technics SL 1210 Mk II, the DJs choice, but also have a Thorens and a couple of Duals lying around that I bought new. I hardly ever discard stereo or audio equipment and have built up a pretty modest pile of vintage stuff, tube amplifiers and pre-amps, mixing boards, speakers, tape decks, crossovers and other valuable junk.

Don't have a working cassette player though and kind of need one. Good but cheap, you know how it is. Anything Nakamichi under 200 bucks would be fine.

jb

I hope they don't think we're a rock 'n' roll outfit.

i saw a nakamichi at goodwill about a month ago and not on the shelf but in someones cart i just missed it and for only $25 ahhh

i use a bunch of different cassette decks but my current favorite is this pioneer ct-f6161 from 1975 cool wacky tape loading mechanism and it weighs more then any deck i have ever seen and i mean by a long way it is very heavy
cleaned up the transport & pinch roller, replaced the belts, oiled the motor, replaced the old lube, changed all 5 fuses, and set the speed with the frequency counter program on my computer and it sounds great well worth the time and effort and it records well too



i would love to own one these tables just because it looks so cool and i have a thing for empire


Quote

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 1, 2021 07:01

I love burning money on vinyl and turntables and cartridges and stylus's.

I have 7, low end to mostly mid range turntables spread out throughout the house with Ortofon or Audio Technica cartridges. A couple of Pro Ject's, An Audio Technica, a Technics, a Sony, and I can't recall the other two but one is from the early 70's, cheap as hell looking, on a aluminum pedestal under a smoke coloured acrylic dome. Very cool looking but sounds like sh*t through the two cannon ball speakers.

The one thing that I really have enjoyed is getting the AT cartridge with the swappable stylus', as I bought one for 78 speed shellac records. I've been buying them for some time and have maybe 50. The music isn't always to my 'taste' but there's something about listening to a recording from over 100 years ago on your hifi.

The sound is startling, given how primitive the recordings are and how old and battered some are. Some of those early pressings are amazing. They look like crap but still play alright.

are these like what your talking about treaclefingers cause wow looks like something you'd see in clockwork orange



i also love 78's i was given 5 milk crates full of country 78's from a women who collected them with her mother in oaklhoma in the 20's-40's and have nothing to play them on but a old 50's admiral hifi tracks at like 10 grams but considering that phonographs from the 20's and 30's could track at 100's of grams i don't think its to rough on them need to get me a turntable capable of 78rpm and one of those moving magnet 78 carts some day though

HA HA! That's the one...the stainless steel pedestal. Sounds like crap but looks like something out of the Jetsons. Love it.

Yes, something magical about those shellac 78's. If you have a turntable with the traditional 1/2 inch mount (whatever it's called), Audio Technica has come up with a cartridge that is reasonably rated, where you can swap 5 or 6 different stylus's for.

There's your traditional elliptical and conical, a mircolinear and a Shibata and there's also one specifically for 78s. So I bought, it, sounds great on regular records as far as I'm concerned, I have two one conical one elliptical. But the cool thing is that the one for 78s now allows me to play those records through a hi fi system...and they sound fantastic.

I was thinking about it and the 100 or so years old those records are, they've probably never been listened to in better quality.

I recently purchased a Edison Wax Cylinder, about 110 years old. Can't play it on anything but just a cool item.

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 5, 2021 02:30

its called standard mount i believe
but what table do you use with a stadard mount that plays at 78 rpm thats not an easy find i think you have to use tables from the 50's-60's or modify a modern table to get the right playback speed

also getting back to the vintage cart aspect sort of i know several manufactures other then audio technica offered 78 stylus for there carts back in the 60's case in point shure had on for the m44 line the stylus was there n44-3
here is a pdf of a 1966 data sheet showing it we

i have a couple cylinders to with no way to play that i bought from a neighbour down the road at his yard sale he had a couple players too don't know how well they worked but one of them was electric with a speaker but he wanted to much for them

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: August 5, 2021 02:40

Quote
ProfessorWolf
its called standard mount i believe
but what table do you use with a stadard mount that plays at 78 rpm thats not an easy find i think you have to use tables from the 50's-60's or modify a modern table to get the right playback speed

also getting back to the vintage cart aspect sort of i know several manufactures other then audio technica offered 78 stylus for there carts back in the 60's case in point shure had on for the m44 line the stylus was there n44-3
here is a pdf of a 1966 data sheet showing it we

i have a couple cylinders to with no way to play that i bought from a neighbour down the road at his yard sale he had a couple players too don't know how well they worked but one of them was electric with a speaker but he wanted to much for them

I especially bought the AT 120 for that...it is one of the few that has 78 speed as an option and is direct drive. Looks similar to the Technics SL1200. I have the baby brother of that, the 1900.

But the Technics of course doesn't play 78.

[www.audio-technica.com]

The other turntable that I have that I couldn't remember is a piano black TEAC. Really nice, again mid-range though. I'd have to up my entire game, speakers everything to warrant a really expensive turntable. I guess that isn't my priority!

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 5, 2021 03:17

My parents had a German Braun big wooden (maple I think) cabinet hi fi from the early 60s with a nice turntable that played 78s and down to 16 rpm records, and a preamp output to run it into a more powerful amplifier and set of speakers than were built into the cabinet. Foolishly I discarded it, gave it to a friend actually, a long time ago. Then I developed an interest in old blues and race music 78s but have no where to play them. Meanwhile he refurbished the tube amp, preamp and tuner, and bought a new stylus for the cartridge and it sounds great. Oh well.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 5, 2021 04:23

i just use this for 78's i refurbished and got new stylus for it and it sounds pretty good really with 78's and it not a bad looking piece either and pretty affordable definetly better than some cheap crappy garrad from the 70's which is i think the most easy option for playback though i have read that those old garrads can have the arms replaced then they can become alright tables plus they can run at 78 rpm not a bad solution for hifi playback of 78's if the modification can be done at a reasonable price

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 5, 2021 05:23




jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 5, 2021 05:28

i was speaking more about one of these

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 5, 2021 06:25

yes I know, the cheap USA consumer model most here think of when they hear "Garrard". Little do they know the higher line stuff. I figured you did Professor.

jb

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: August 5, 2021 23:04

i do in fact when i was 10 i saw one of these at the washington state history museum in tacoma amongst a collection of various broadcasting equipment about 20 years ago
well i think i did as i said i was 10 but that is pretty distinctive looking so it kind of stuck with me since i was a weird kid and kind of obsessed with antique electronics

Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: August 6, 2021 02:25


Re: best vintage turntable cartridges for listening to the stones
Posted by: Toru A ()
Date: August 6, 2021 02:43

When I was a kid, I dreamed of having a turntable with auto-changer system.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-06 11:49 by Toru A.

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