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Hairball
Joe Biden is now sending out government workers to knock on doors since free beer and donuts didn't quite get it done..."we got this"...yeah right, what a bunch of malarkey.
Can't imagine how a hardcore anti-vaxxer will react when he (or she) is being bothered at home by someone with a needle in their hand bullying them in to something they're completely against.
Sort of a thankless job, and hopefully these workers won't be knocking on any anti-vaxxer NRA supporters. If they thought the Jehova's Witness's knocking on their doors was a nuisance, wait until they're greeted by this.

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Dougratajczak87

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Hairball

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Dougratajczak87

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Hairball

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GlimmerGirl24
The latest from the grapevine is a decision will be made by the end of July.

Nothing really new on what the hold ups are, there's still visa issues with UK/European crew members. Another wrench may be that insurance companies are balking at covering losses due to covid cancellations. Which has the promoters like AEG and Live Nation renegotiating their contracts with the bands, requiring the bands to pick up more of the risk. The Stones may not be eager to do so.

Thanks for the update and reality check GlimmerGirl24.

Not sure if all those issues can be ironed out in just a few weeks time, not to mention the "state of the world" with the Delta mutation (among others) wreaking havoc across the land.
Delta is currently sweeping the nation and escalating daily, and seems things will get worse before they start to get better - New daily COVID-19 cases and deaths spike to 6-week highs as delta variant spreads rapidly
I'm vaccinated, ready, and willing, but the reality is many are not for whatever reason. That said, it will be a relief to find out the Stones' decision one way or another.
Hoping and waiting...maybe against the odds...not looking too good right now...but looking forward to whatever that decision may be...miracles happen...2022...

GlimmerGirl24, any word on if the decision is made to move to 2022 if the dates would then be announced for 2022 or if it's just a yes or no decision for 2021, then TBD for going forward?

I believe someone (maybe GlimmerGirl24?) had posted earlier that 2022 was a problem due to so many other tours being scheduled, and the Stones were hoping to cram in the rescheduled dates to this Fall
Due to the unlikeliness of that happening based on the current situation and problems they're still facing, I was just throwing 2022 out there as sort of a Hail Mary of wishful thinking.
mpj200 also mentioned some of problems with rescheduling to 2022, and the fact there's tentative plans for the UK in the works for next year...

Got it, yeah ironically I was the poster on the scheduling for 2022 based on a post from Tom Johnson at BTX (Springsteen site).

I'd imagine that if US doesn't happen in 2021, they'd have to scrap their Europe 2022 plans and figure out how to make the US dates work in 2022 or risk having to cancel the postponed US tour.

Can't see them announcing and playing new dates in another area of the world without first playing the previously committed dates.

To your point (and my previous post) though, could take some time to rework 2022 if that's what ends up being needed.

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NilsHolgersson

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daspyknows

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Nate
If Covid is still a big problem in the states because of the lack of vaccination uptake then it’s unlikely that many of the people refusing a vaccine this year are going to take it next year either.If the Stones don’t tour the USA this year due to the Covid situation there then how would it be any different next year.

Nate

It won't be except there will be more dead people. Will be the same issue in other places as well but generally not because of refusal but access. Many of these freedom people are the ones who don't want to wear masks, seat belts, helmets while riding motorcycles but when it comes to a woman's right to choose what to do with her body, that is where they draw the line.

Offtopic, but: an unborn child is not a woman's body. It's a seperate being.

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TheBluesHadaBaby
The NYT keeps up a table of the states' vax levels.
[www.nytimes.com]
Of course it's tracked multiple ways. At least 1 dose, fully vaccinated, total population, Ages 12+, Ages 18+.

For simplicity I watch mostly Ages 18+ Fully Vaccinated.

As of July 7, 2021, using that measure, these were the vax rates in the 13 states where the 2020 tour's 14 U.S. concerts were postponed:

Calif 61.5%
Minn 64.3%
Tenn 47.1%
Texas 50.2%
NY 66.2%
Mich. 57.8%
KY 54.8%
Ohio 55.7%
Penn 60.8%
MO. 49.1%
NCar 51.9%
Flor 56.2%
GA 46.9%

At the top we have
NY 66.2%
Minn 64.3%
Calif 61.5%

And at the low end are
GA 46.9%
Tenn 47.1%
MO 49.1%


When you're chasing herd immunity in the 70 to 80% range, as you begin to approach it I don't think the relative importance of each % point is merely arithmetic, I believe those additional % points have more nearly geometric effects in population safety. That an almost 20 point difference between New York and Georgia means much more than just 20% more or less safety within their respective populations.

As of right now those are pretty terrible vax rates that Georgia, Tennessee, and Missouri have turned in. And Texas' and NC's aren't all that much better.

All states' numbers should be a few points higher by the end of this month, which we suspect may be when a tour/don't tour decision might get made.

We need the lagging U.S. states in particular to pick up their vax rates. Honestly, though, that doesn't seem especially likely. And we need to get lucky and the Covid-19 Delta pocket surges not become widespread.

We need these things, of course, for much more than just for the World's Greatest Rock n Roll Band to tour soon. But, on this thread, the context is the tour.

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bleedingman
Not to worry, Glimmer Girl, Joe Biden is talking about "knocking on doors" to get people vaccinated. I'm waiting. Very sorry that my personal choice is killing billions and preventing you from seeing the Rolling Stones. How easily we are divided and turn on one another. What a joke.

Meanwhile, according to this latest science, even if you are vaccinated, you could still be killing people. Go figure:

"A leading US disease expert says there's 'no doubt in my mind' that vaccinated people are helping spread Delta"

[www.businessinsider.com]

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daspyknows

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bleedingman
Not to worry, Glimmer Girl, Joe Biden is talking about "knocking on doors" to get people vaccinated. I'm waiting. Very sorry that my personal choice is killing billions and preventing you from seeing the Rolling Stones. How easily we are divided and turn on one another. What a joke.

Meanwhile, according to this latest science, even if you are vaccinated, you could still be killing people. Go figure:

"A leading US disease expert says there's 'no doubt in my mind' that vaccinated people are helping spread Delta"

[www.businessinsider.com]

Its mainly the unvaccinated who are dying. If they were vaccinated they would not die. Many of the vaccinated still take precautions like wearing masks. The majority of the unvaccinated do not.

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TheBluesHadaBaby
The NYT keeps up a table of the states' vax levels.
[www.nytimes.com]
Of course it's tracked multiple ways. At least 1 dose, fully vaccinated, total population, Ages 12+, Ages 18+.

For simplicity I watch mostly Ages 18+ Fully Vaccinated.

As of July 7, 2021, using that measure, these were the vax rates in the 13 states where the 2020 tour's 14 U.S. concerts were postponed:

Calif 61.5%
Minn 64.3%
Tenn 47.1%
Texas 50.2%
NY 66.2%
Mich. 57.8%
KY 54.8%
Ohio 55.7%
Penn 60.8%
MO. 49.1%
NCar 51.9%
Flor 56.2%
GA 46.9%

At the top we have
NY 66.2%
Minn 64.3%
Calif 61.5%

And at the low end are
GA 46.9%
Tenn 47.1%
MO 49.1%


When you're chasing herd immunity in the 70 to 80% range, as you begin to approach it I don't think the relative importance of each % point is merely arithmetic, I believe those additional % points have more nearly geometric effects in population safety. That an almost 20 point difference between New York and Georgia means much more than just 20% more or less safety within their respective populations.

As of right now those are pretty terrible vax rates that Georgia, Tennessee, and Missouri have turned in. And Texas' and NC's aren't all that much better.

All states' numbers should be a few points higher by the end of this month, which we suspect may be when a tour/don't tour decision might get made.

We need the lagging U.S. states in particular to pick up their vax rates. Honestly, though, that doesn't seem especially likely. And we need to get lucky and the Covid-19 Delta pocket surges not become widespread.

We need these things, of course, for much more than just for the World's Greatest Rock n Roll Band to tour soon. But, on this thread, the context is the tour.

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More Hot Rocks

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daspyknows

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bleedingman
Not to worry, Glimmer Girl, Joe Biden is talking about "knocking on doors" to get people vaccinated. I'm waiting. Very sorry that my personal choice is killing billions and preventing you from seeing the Rolling Stones. How easily we are divided and turn on one another. What a joke.

Meanwhile, according to this latest science, even if you are vaccinated, you could still be killing people. Go figure:

"A leading US disease expert says there's 'no doubt in my mind' that vaccinated people are helping spread Delta"

[www.businessinsider.com]

Its mainly the unvaccinated who are dying. If they were vaccinated they would not die. Many of the vaccinated still take precautions like wearing masks. The majority of the unvaccinated do not.

I starting to like this guy. Great posts.

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NilsHolgersson

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Hairball
Joe Biden is now sending out government workers to knock on doors since free beer and donuts didn't quite get it done..."we got this"...yeah right, what a bunch of malarkey.
Can't imagine how a hardcore anti-vaxxer will react when he (or she) is being bothered at home by someone with a needle in their hand bullying them in to something they're completely against.
Sort of a thankless job, and hopefully these workers won't be knocking on any anti-vaxxer NRA supporters. If they thought the Jehova's Witness's knocking on their doors was a nuisance, wait until they're greeted by this.

Hello, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

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Hairball
Joe Biden is now sending out government workers to knock on doors since free beer and donuts didn't quite get it done..."we got this"...yeah right, what a bunch of malarkey.
Can't imagine how a hardcore anti-vaxxer will react when he (or she) is being bothered at home by someone with a needle in their hand bullying them in to something they're completely against.
Sort of a thankless job, and hopefully these workers won't be knocking on any anti-vaxxer NRA supporters. If they thought the Jehova's Witness's knocking on their doors was a nuisance, wait until they're greeted by this.

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MisterDDDD
The same people mocking the various government incentives to get vaxxed (lotteries etc) are now mocking the government having people and mobile vax units going door to door in mostly rural areas to help get people access to the vaccine eye rolling smiley

We send government census workers door to door, as well as voter registration workers etc., but going knocking on doors in an effort to help people get vaccinated, if they choose, is somehow beyond the pale. Fighting through the pandemic is tough enough, having to fight through the ignorance of the conspiracy theorists and the anti-government idiots doesn't help.

In Washington state alone, our vaccine lottery has motivated 30,000 people to get the shot(s). That equates to lives saved and a step closer to herd immunity, which the critics in the cheap seats apparently could care less about.

'Shot of a Lifetime' lottery boosted COVID-19 vaccine rates 24%, Inslee says
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, according to Inslee.

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Gov. Jay Inslee said in a tweet Tuesday that early estimates show Washington’s vaccine lottery resulted in a 24% jump in vaccination rates across the state.
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, he said.

Inslee cites estimates from the Washington State Department of Health (DOH), which were shared as part of a presentation by the Institute for Disease Modeling, a Seattle-based organization within the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Division.
[www.king5.com]

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kovach

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MisterDDDD
The same people mocking the various government incentives to get vaxxed (lotteries etc) are now mocking the government having people and mobile vax units going door to door in mostly rural areas to help get people access to the vaccine eye rolling smiley

We send government census workers door to door, as well as voter registration workers etc., but going knocking on doors in an effort to help people get vaccinated, if they choose, is somehow beyond the pale. Fighting through the pandemic is tough enough, having to fight through the ignorance of the conspiracy theorists and the anti-government idiots doesn't help.

In Washington state alone, our vaccine lottery has motivated 30,000 people to get the shot(s). That equates to lives saved and a step closer to herd immunity, which the critics in the cheap seats apparently could care less about.

'Shot of a Lifetime' lottery boosted COVID-19 vaccine rates 24%, Inslee says
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, according to Inslee.

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Gov. Jay Inslee said in a tweet Tuesday that early estimates show Washington’s vaccine lottery resulted in a 24% jump in vaccination rates across the state.
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, he said.

Inslee cites estimates from the Washington State Department of Health (DOH), which were shared as part of a presentation by the Institute for Disease Modeling, a Seattle-based organization within the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Division.
[www.king5.com]

Would be interested to know if the majority of these unvaccinated are in rural or urban areas.

If rural, which I suspect, the folks Obama's called "the long driveway" folks who might need guns for personal protection, I sure would not want to be the one to show up on someone's front porch holding a needle in the air suggesting a jab.

And on the flipside, I also sure would be suspect of strangers showing up at my door as well asking to inject me. Not to mention there may be reasons these folks are laying low and not making public appearances and shoot first and ask questions later.

Census workers run into a lot of resistance as well from folks in the country illegally who fear it may be entrapment to deport them.

All politics aside, just thinking realistically about this, it has disaster written all over it. But I'll be the first to give Biden credit if he pulls it off.

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

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treaclefingers

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kovach

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MisterDDDD
The same people mocking the various government incentives to get vaxxed (lotteries etc) are now mocking the government having people and mobile vax units going door to door in mostly rural areas to help get people access to the vaccine eye rolling smiley

We send government census workers door to door, as well as voter registration workers etc., but going knocking on doors in an effort to help people get vaccinated, if they choose, is somehow beyond the pale. Fighting through the pandemic is tough enough, having to fight through the ignorance of the conspiracy theorists and the anti-government idiots doesn't help.

In Washington state alone, our vaccine lottery has motivated 30,000 people to get the shot(s). That equates to lives saved and a step closer to herd immunity, which the critics in the cheap seats apparently could care less about.

'Shot of a Lifetime' lottery boosted COVID-19 vaccine rates 24%, Inslee says
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, according to Inslee.

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Gov. Jay Inslee said in a tweet Tuesday that early estimates show Washington’s vaccine lottery resulted in a 24% jump in vaccination rates across the state.
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, he said.

Inslee cites estimates from the Washington State Department of Health (DOH), which were shared as part of a presentation by the Institute for Disease Modeling, a Seattle-based organization within the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Division.
[www.king5.com]

Would be interested to know if the majority of these unvaccinated are in rural or urban areas.

If rural, which I suspect, the folks Obama's called "the long driveway" folks who might need guns for personal protection, I sure would not want to be the one to show up on someone's front porch holding a needle in the air suggesting a jab.

And on the flipside, I also sure would be suspect of strangers showing up at my door as well asking to inject me. Not to mention there may be reasons these folks are laying low and not making public appearances and shoot first and ask questions later.

Census workers run into a lot of resistance as well from folks in the country illegally who fear it may be entrapment to deport them.

All politics aside, just thinking realistically about this, it has disaster written all over it. But I'll be the first to give Biden credit if he pulls it off.

...and doesn't the 'shooter' only need to say they 'felt threatened'. I like the idea that the government is really making the effort but if I were one of the 'employees' taking the long walk up that driveway it would be a bit unnerving.

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welshphil
Can't see the U.S. tour going ahead this year. Why not start the tour April 8th next year ,same venues apart from San Diego . They'll be done by June 8th. 4 month break, then some indoor U.K. dates for the Autumn/ Fall. Or they could play some indoor European dates October November this year ..

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JN99
Every delay means there's less of a chance this tour happens at all. I posted several pages back that I suspect we've seen the last Stones live show. I hope I'm wrong but expecting a group of men aged 74, 77, 77, and 80 to still all have their health, at least to the extent they can withstand the rigors of even a small tour and 2hrs on stage each show, another year on is very wishful thinking.

If it happens, I'll make every effort to be there but I'm not overly optimistic it ever happens.

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MisterDDDD
The same people mocking the various government incentives to get vaxxed (lotteries etc) are now mocking the government having people and mobile vax units going door to door in mostly rural areas to help get people access to the vaccine eye rolling smiley

We send government census workers door to door, as well as voter registration workers etc., but going knocking on doors in an effort to help people get vaccinated, if they choose, is somehow beyond the pale. Fighting through the pandemic is tough enough, having to fight through the ignorance of the conspiracy theorists and the anti-government idiots doesn't help.

In Washington state alone, our vaccine lottery has motivated 30,000 people to get the shot(s). That equates to lives saved and a step closer to herd immunity, which the critics in the cheap seats apparently could care less about.

'Shot of a Lifetime' lottery boosted COVID-19 vaccine rates 24%, Inslee says
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, according to Inslee.

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Gov. Jay Inslee said in a tweet Tuesday that early estimates show Washington’s vaccine lottery resulted in a 24% jump in vaccination rates across the state.
The increase is equal to about 30,000 Washingtonians becoming vaccinated, he said.

Inslee cites estimates from the Washington State Department of Health (DOH), which were shared as part of a presentation by the Institute for Disease Modeling, a Seattle-based organization within the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Division.
[www.king5.com]

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GasLightStreet
It's interesting what people nitpick at in regard to paying taxes and what they won't support etc. As if it's some kind of entitled position of taking my ball home because the context didn't go the way I wanted it to so screw you, no hospital for you, just... suffer and soon or eventually die.

It doesn't matter what taxes you pay and where they go - you pay them, period.

What's astounding is there is a political body that insures the poor rural- affluent urban divide to exist and remain steady.

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kovach

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GasLightStreet
It's interesting what people nitpick at in regard to paying taxes and what they won't support etc. As if it's some kind of entitled position of taking my ball home because the context didn't go the way I wanted it to so screw you, no hospital for you, just... suffer and soon or eventually die.

It doesn't matter what taxes you pay and where they go - you pay them, period.

What's astounding is there is a political body that insures the poor rural- affluent urban divide to exist and remain steady.

The federal govt pays for nothing, tax payers do, and I think it's everyone's responsibility to ensure their money is spent responsibly. Plus the federal budget is running a deficit which means we're borrowing a lot of money from other countries with significant interest charges. And it's not like you pay X% in taxes and will always pay X% so who cares...the more that's provided by the federal govt the higher that % will go.

An I saying this is a waste of money? No, but just pointing out its not free and reasons people should pay attention just like they do their own finances.

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kovach

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daspyknows

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kovach
I'm sure insurance actuaries are running numbers and will ultimately call the shots here (no pun intended).

I haven't been following the hospitalization or death #'s here in the states recently though I thought I saw a report suggesting with the vaccine and immunity from having the bug they're about equal with the flu at this point.

If that's the case, nobody's cancelled tours over the seasonal flu.

Just sayin...

Though some mutant variant I suppose could pop up at any point and wreak havoc around the world again. But as the saying goes, you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had. Today the army of data makes it look possible; come Labor Day, we can only wish we knew...

Again, yes I know this wasn't the flu. But I think the best hope is we can turn it into one. Only time will tell...

Where did you see that? In Missouri they are sending out emergency requests for respiratory therapists. People don't die from the seasonal flu in the summer either. I do agree, the insurance companies are one of the key constituents deciding on the tour.

I think it was one of those articles you refused to read because it wasn't from a far left media company as defined by the "Allsides Media Bias Chart" (even though the group that runs this site advocates for legalizing victimless 'crimes' like smoking marijuana and such so I'm not sure they can really be declared to be 'far right' either). Here it is again if you want to read it; however it appears this was written before the delta variant so may be a moot point now:

Daily U.S. COVID-19 Deaths are Approaching the Influenza Average

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jbwelda
What is needed is for the top 10% to pay their true share of taxes, not their "share" after some shyster lawyer/accountant has made it look like they did not earn anything.

$800 a year taxes for a supposed billionaire? I pay 3X that in addition to what is taken out of my pay check every month.

Line them up and I will pull the trigger.

jb

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VoodooLounge13
With governments (Israel) indicating that the Pfizer vax isn't all that effective against the Delta variant, and states already considering re-instituting mask wearing mandates, it's hard to imagine things being under control by the Fall here in the US.

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stickyfingers101

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VoodooLounge13
With governments (Israel) indicating that the Pfizer vax isn't all that effective against the Delta variant, and states already considering re-instituting mask wearing mandates, it's hard to imagine things being under control by the Fall here in the US.

it's 65% effective in preventing Covid altogether....and 93% effective against Severe Covid....those are excellent odds...

[www.cnn.com]

the entire point all along was to "flatten the curve"...93% effectiveness against severe Covid does that very effectively.....

not everything can be prevented...the point is to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals can effectively deal with the severe cases....."not severe Covid" means you'll get through it on your own....

"Flatten the Curve"....this is the entire point of the Vax...it was never to give 100% security-prevention, which is impossible and a fool's errand.

However, since this thread is about the tour: if the Stones don't want to tour, I get that....they are old and have health concerns....their chances of "severe Covid" are elevated even with the Vax.

makes sense....but, if they are waiting for the world to get to 100% vax-rates, or for the Vax to be 100% effective in preventing all variants forever...well, then there will never be another Stones tour....

Covid is here to stay...the Vax "flattens the curve"....tours (and life) will have to take place within that context.

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stickyfingers101

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VoodooLounge13
With governments (Israel) indicating that the Pfizer vax isn't all that effective against the Delta variant, and states already considering re-instituting mask wearing mandates, it's hard to imagine things being under control by the Fall here in the US.

it's 65% effective in preventing Covid altogether....and 93% effective against Severe Covid....those are excellent odds...

[www.cnn.com]

the entire point all along was to "flatten the curve"...93% effectiveness against severe Covid does that very effectively.....

not everything can be prevented...the point is to "flatten the curve" so the hospitals can effectively deal with the severe cases....."not severe Covid" means you'll get through it on your own....

"Flatten the Curve"....this is the entire point of the Vax...it was never to give 100% security-prevention, which is impossible and a fool's errand.

However, since this thread is about the tour: if the Stones don't want to tour, I get that....they are old and have health concerns....their chances of "severe Covid" are elevated even with the Vax.

makes sense....but, if they are waiting for the world to get to 100% vax-rates, or for the Vax to be 100% effective in preventing all variants forever...well, then there will never be another Stones tour....

Covid is here to stay...the Vax "flattens the curve"....tours (and life) will have to take place within that context.