Tell Me :
Talk
Ok, so if Johnnie J was driving a bus and his CB income(and other shows) was minimal, maybe it is more than a just a story about Keith helping him. I think Keith got him a record deal and played on a couple songs. A few performances too? I think Johnnie gave him grand thanks.
Does anyone have comments from Chuck Berry on The Stones and Johnnie Johnson? I recall one semi compliment decades years ago from Chuck about the Stones, but that's it.
It's actually nonsense that Berry stole it all from Johnson. If there is one guy whom Berry 'stole' stuff from it is T-Bone walker. Many of the Berry leads and double stops Walker already did 10 years earlier.
And many people still do not fully understand how writing credits work. The author is the guy who creates something that wasn't there before. So if I hum a very basic melody I will get the credits. You can add bagpipes or the London Bach Choir to the melody, but the author will remain me. Now if you add a middle 8 to my melody you will be entitled to a part of the writing credits.
Mathijs
Has Keith said anything about Brian writing either lyrics, melody or any passages in Ruby Tuesday? I must have missed that.
Adding instruments that embellish or complement to the song is not writing, though, it's simply a musician's job. Had they started out with Brian's recorder-theme, and Keith based the song around that, it would have been songwriting, though.
There's almost no 6-tees 7-tees blues/ rock guitarist that wasn't inspired by T-Bone Walker. The man was a class act jazz-influenced musician.
From 0:50 and onwards he plays "Red House", so to speak.
T-BONE STEAK.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-06 14:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
I never denied Keith helped him. Johnnie did an album of his own before he worked with Keith on JOHNNIE B. BAD in 1991, but yes, I believe Keith helped get him the Elektra deal. If nothing else HAIL HAIL gave him a profile he had never previously enjoyed. Keith played a couple shows with Johnnie about 10 years after they cut "Key to the Highway" and "Tanqueray." Johnnie was a great piano player and I love hearing him with the Winos and (all too briefly) with the Stones. Johnnie or Ben Waters are the only people I've heard that bring to the table what Stu did for the Stones. Chuck acquit himself nicely on "Fancy Man Blues" but it's rare he plays a real piano.
Brian did not add an instrument to Ruby Tuesday. It was Keith who heard Brian play on a recorder and took that experience to write Ruby Tuesday, in which Brian's recorder tune was incorporated. Without Keith hearing Brian there would not have been Ruby Tuesday.
Mathijs mentioned the idea of songwriting credits, which I think are essentially true, but ..... courts/judges have decided differently in quite some occasions.
Tough, tough, tough.
Oh, didn't mean to imply you denied Keiths help.I'm just trying to sort how that dynamic existed between the 3 of them. I met Johnnie in Sydney Australia, I think it was 2003. What a nice guy! He took photos of his grandkids out of his wallet and showed them to me. Love his Johnnie B Bad release.
Yes, but even a musician can write a memorable riff or melody over chords and receive a songwriting credit. It’s really up to the artist/band to decide. For instance, Peter Green gave McVie and Fleetwood writing credits on a few songs on Then Play On because he wanted to incorporate them more, not because they actually wrote anything. All Black Sabbath songs were attributed to the band, despite Iommi and Butler writing the majority of everything.
Johnson went as far as suing Berry, but he waited waaay too long, so who knows.
I will have to do some solid looking around, DP, because I heard and read so much over the past 50+ years
It could very well be from an interview (or written by) of Bill Wyman, but don't pin me on that one yet.
Interesting that you actually read Johnnie's book and came to the table with what was actually written. He was paid as a side man and was on salary. That is what is in his book and his interpretation of the business relationship.
As to where my father got his style from think about it like this.
1. He thought the world of T-Bone Walker, Carl Hogan and Charlie Christian. My dad's playing style can be traced directly to those three guitarists.
2. My father grew up during the big band era where horns dominated the music scene. What keys did the big bands play in, horn keys.
3. My father played both saxophone (just ok, he was never going to be a John Coltrane, Dexter Gordan or Stan Getz) and piano (He was no Johnnie or Bernie Hancock) and knew his way around both.
4. Dad and Johnny did in fact perform after the law suit it was actuallg December 2000. It took place at Blueberry Hill about 6 months before Johnnie died. About the only time I stopped playing my guitar during a show. I stood there and watched the two of them make magic on the stage. I was also carried Johnnie's coffee out of the church and to his grave site. Those two guys were really, really close friends and as you picked up on Johnnie was talked into doing something not that he thought there was validity in it.
5. As to did he deserve credit for the music that was made. You traced a pretty good line of thought on the idea a barrister jumped on the chance to try and get paid (which they did). Was it legal or moral? I'd give both an affirmative since Johnnie states he was a salaried "employee". Anyone question that train of thought, ask Mick Taylor.
6. Did Keith deserve to be punched in the head. I've read the descriotions, have heard Keith talk about it and my dad told me his version of what happened. My thoughts? Its best to always be prepared to defend youself when a guy with really big hands is around and never just walk out on stage and surprise a guy that boxed as a teenager.
7. Yes, Johnnie did drive a bus. Childhood friends where the CEO and President of Available Citywide Transportation here in Saint Louis and Johnnie was one of the drivers. I saw him quite often while I was writing a tracking application for them (ahh, the days of dBase II and III.)
8. What side man or salaried musician has ever become rich? Unless they were a highly sought after session player the only people that get rich are the frontman/stars.
CBII
Mathijs, DING!
I just basically said the same thing about T-Bone Walker and added a couple other guitarists my father loved. My dad happily admitted T-Bone Walker, Carl Hogan and Charlie Christian laid down the law for him.
Basic structure / melody is the tried a true template for credit and publishing rights. That may change with the most recent suits in the courts about publishing rights to solos/hooks etc...
Absolutely, he was another one of my dad's hero's.
As always, I appreciate the info you provide!
I see their entire career as a tribute to Chuck Berry.
And similar to what Keith has stated himself, more than once.
And I'd have to go thru their catalog to check, but I am guessing they've covered CB songs at least 10 times, likely more. How can one even imply they haven't paid tribute to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-09 15:44 by LeonidP.
i'd say the tribute is better when you cover the songs when the artist is alive ... still, in the beginning, CB was covered the most, i believe, including Come On as the first single, and hence the point of my comment that their career has been a CB tribute.
I burned this cdr of Chuck Berry associated songs which the Stones covered and I play it frequently.
Come On
Bye Bye Johnny
Memphis Tennessee BBC
Roll Over Beethoven BBC
Route 66
Carol
Beautiful Delilah BBC
Don't Lie To Me
Reelin' And Rockin' (outtake)
Confessin' The Blues
Around And Around
Talkin' About You
Down The Road Apiece
You Can't Catch Me
Little Queenie - Live 1969
Let It Rock - Live 1971
Back In The U.S.A. (outtake)
Sweet Little Sixteen - Live 1978
Sweet Little Rock 'N' Roller - bonus track - New Barbarians live 1979
Run Rudolph Run - bonus track rare Keith Richards single
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-11 04:32 by boogaloojef.
Worried Life Blues by the New Barbarians could also be added here
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: October 6, 2019 12:10
Quote
Rocky Dijon
According to what Johnnie wrote in his book (or told his co-author), he was on salary through 1973. After that he was just paid like any sideman or session musician. However, the recording artist and credited songwriter on all those records was Chuck Berry, there were no royalties to receive just because you play on someone's sessions or gigs. I don't believe he ever played with Chuck again once he sued him in 1991.
It's a tough situation. Chuck took those piano runs and converted them to guitar and created a unique sound, but it's not like Johnnie had a bunch of completed compositions and Chuck stole them. Did he deserve credit for at least some songs as a co-writer? Probably, but moral arguments are not a matter of breaking the law. Even if it hadn't been over thirty years after the fact when Johnnie finally sued, I doubt very much Chuck broke the law in calling himself the songwriter. Sadly, an opportunistic lawyer likely saw a chance to take advantage of the situation and Johnnie went along with it after getting advice from his handlers.
I look at it like by the time is was all said and done, Keith deserved that black eye from Chuck or, perhaps more accurately, had Chuck never punched Keith; he probably would have kept working on and off with Johnnie for the rest of his life as he had done. As for the question of did he really drive a bus, I imagine he did. Chuck wasn't selling out stadiums or arenas and the hits had long since dried up. I doubt Johnnie was getting rich working as an occasional sideman for Chuck in the seventies and eighties.
Ok, so if Johnnie J was driving a bus and his CB income(and other shows) was minimal, maybe it is more than a just a story about Keith helping him. I think Keith got him a record deal and played on a couple songs. A few performances too? I think Johnnie gave him grand thanks.
Does anyone have comments from Chuck Berry on The Stones and Johnnie Johnson? I recall one semi compliment decades years ago from Chuck about the Stones, but that's it.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 6, 2019 12:34
Quote
georgie48Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48
The thing with Johnny Johnson is that he actually delivered essential musical parts to the songs, allowing Chuck to add (great!) lyrics. Lyrics as such don't neccesarily result into great (musical) songs. So Johnson/Berry (or Berry/Johnson) credits would have been nice (and decent) in cases.
It's a difficult one, Georgie. No doubt Chuck let himself be inspired of licks from Johnnie, Louis Jordan etc. However, what he did with it was to create a template for his songs, musically. And none of these guys had the patent on 12 bar boogie. Those 12 bars (with THAT lick) became a vehicle for adding melodies and lyrics.
I don't know what would be right: Crediting Johnnie on every song, or simply some of the first songs?
Like I said, it's difficult
It's difficult indeed, DP.
I try to look at it this way. Selfishness is a common thing among people (and animals alike ...). Many felt that Brian should have been credited for Ruby Tuesday. Based on how the song developed (Keith's own words) he should have been. With Johnnie Johnson I think it is similar. Berry was clearly inspired, as was Keith. When a contribution has a clearly recognisable impact on a song that contribution should be credited.
Mick and Keith learned from their mistake(s). Pierre de Beauport was credited!
It's actually nonsense that Berry stole it all from Johnson. If there is one guy whom Berry 'stole' stuff from it is T-Bone walker. Many of the Berry leads and double stops Walker already did 10 years earlier.
And many people still do not fully understand how writing credits work. The author is the guy who creates something that wasn't there before. So if I hum a very basic melody I will get the credits. You can add bagpipes or the London Bach Choir to the melody, but the author will remain me. Now if you add a middle 8 to my melody you will be entitled to a part of the writing credits.
Mathijs
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2019 13:16
Quote
georgie48Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48
The thing with Johnny Johnson is that he actually delivered essential musical parts to the songs, allowing Chuck to add (great!) lyrics. Lyrics as such don't neccesarily result into great (musical) songs. So Johnson/Berry (or Berry/Johnson) credits would have been nice (and decent) in cases.
It's a difficult one, Georgie. No doubt Chuck let himself be inspired of licks from Johnnie, Louis Jordan etc. However, what he did with it was to create a template for his songs, musically. And none of these guys had the patent on 12 bar boogie. Those 12 bars (with THAT lick) became a vehicle for adding melodies and lyrics.
I don't know what would be right: Crediting Johnnie on every song, or simply some of the first songs?
Like I said, it's difficult
It's difficult indeed, DP.
I try to look at it this way. Selfishness is a common thing among people (and animals alike ...). Many felt that Brian should have been credited for Ruby Tuesday. Based on how the song developed (Keith's own words) he should have been. With Johnnie Johnson I think it is similar. Berry was clearly inspired, as was Keith. When a contribution has a clearly recognisable impact on a song that contribution should be credited.
Mick and Keith learned from their mistake(s). Pierre de Beauport was credited!
Has Keith said anything about Brian writing either lyrics, melody or any passages in Ruby Tuesday? I must have missed that.
Adding instruments that embellish or complement to the song is not writing, though, it's simply a musician's job. Had they started out with Brian's recorder-theme, and Keith based the song around that, it would have been songwriting, though.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
harlem shuffle
()
Date: October 6, 2019 13:19
Quote
So everything Jagger say is scripted?Some more nonsens from a fanatic Keithfan again.You always find something negative with Mick Jagger.And believing every words from Keith?Getting Worse and worse
Cheers georgie48! Those are some nice words Keith said about Chuck in the above excerpts. However, I'm left divided on Mick's comments. Seems a little scripted, maybe I'm wrong. Anyhow, thanks to influences like Chuck we have been able to enjoy The Stones for a very long time. There's several chapters to them, not all great but somehow it ties in together perfectly. Maybe there's something for Chuck down the road apiece?[/quote
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2019 13:31
How is this "everything"? Chill!
<Seems a little scripted, maybe I'm wrong>
<Seems a little scripted, maybe I'm wrong>
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: October 6, 2019 13:42
The uncanny ability to completely mess up quotes makes it hard to chill... sometimes
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 6, 2019 14:36
Quote
Mathijs
It's actually nonsense that Berry stole it all from Johnson. If there is one guy whom Berry 'stole' stuff from it is T-Bone walker. Many of the Berry leads and double stops Walker already did 10 years earlier.
Mathijs
There's almost no 6-tees 7-tees blues/ rock guitarist that wasn't inspired by T-Bone Walker. The man was a class act jazz-influenced musician.
From 0:50 and onwards he plays "Red House", so to speak.
T-BONE STEAK.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-06 14:39 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 6, 2019 18:47
Quote
MKjan
Ok, so if Johnnie J was driving a bus and his CB income(and other shows) was minimal, maybe it is more than a just a story about Keith helping him. I think Keith got him a record deal and played on a couple songs. A few performances too? I think Johnnie gave him grand thanks.
I never denied Keith helped him. Johnnie did an album of his own before he worked with Keith on JOHNNIE B. BAD in 1991, but yes, I believe Keith helped get him the Elektra deal. If nothing else HAIL HAIL gave him a profile he had never previously enjoyed. Keith played a couple shows with Johnnie about 10 years after they cut "Key to the Highway" and "Tanqueray." Johnnie was a great piano player and I love hearing him with the Winos and (all too briefly) with the Stones. Johnnie or Ben Waters are the only people I've heard that bring to the table what Stu did for the Stones. Chuck acquit himself nicely on "Fancy Man Blues" but it's rare he plays a real piano.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: October 6, 2019 20:31
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48
The thing with Johnny Johnson is that he actually delivered essential musical parts to the songs, allowing Chuck to add (great!) lyrics. Lyrics as such don't neccesarily result into great (musical) songs. So Johnson/Berry (or Berry/Johnson) credits would have been nice (and decent) in cases.
It's a difficult one, Georgie. No doubt Chuck let himself be inspired of licks from Johnnie, Louis Jordan etc. However, what he did with it was to create a template for his songs, musically. And none of these guys had the patent on 12 bar boogie. Those 12 bars (with THAT lick) became a vehicle for adding melodies and lyrics.
I don't know what would be right: Crediting Johnnie on every song, or simply some of the first songs?
Like I said, it's difficult
It's difficult indeed, DP.
I try to look at it this way. Selfishness is a common thing among people (and animals alike ...). Many felt that Brian should have been credited for Ruby Tuesday. Based on how the song developed (Keith's own words) he should have been. With Johnnie Johnson I think it is similar. Berry was clearly inspired, as was Keith. When a contribution has a clearly recognisable impact on a song that contribution should be credited.
Mick and Keith learned from their mistake(s). Pierre de Beauport was credited!
Has Keith said anything about Brian writing either lyrics, melody or any passages in Ruby Tuesday? I must have missed that.
Adding instruments that embellish or complement to the song is not writing, though, it's simply a musician's job. Had they started out with Brian's recorder-theme, and Keith based the song around that, it would have been songwriting, though.
Brian did not add an instrument to Ruby Tuesday. It was Keith who heard Brian play on a recorder and took that experience to write Ruby Tuesday, in which Brian's recorder tune was incorporated. Without Keith hearing Brian there would not have been Ruby Tuesday.
Mathijs mentioned the idea of songwriting credits, which I think are essentially true, but ..... courts/judges have decided differently in quite some occasions.
Tough, tough, tough.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2019 20:57
Do you have that quote, Georgie?
If true, it's sensational. It really sounds like it was written the other way around - regarding the verses, the melody, the chorus etc. The outro, though, could have worked that way. But nothing is impossible for our boys.
If true, it's sensational. It really sounds like it was written the other way around - regarding the verses, the melody, the chorus etc. The outro, though, could have worked that way. But nothing is impossible for our boys.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: October 6, 2019 21:04
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
MKjan
Ok, so if Johnnie J was driving a bus and his CB income(and other shows) was minimal, maybe it is more than a just a story about Keith helping him. I think Keith got him a record deal and played on a couple songs. A few performances too? I think Johnnie gave him grand thanks.
I never denied Keith helped him. Johnnie did an album of his own before he worked with Keith on JOHNNIE B. BAD in 1991, but yes, I believe Keith helped get him the Elektra deal. If nothing else HAIL HAIL gave him a profile he had never previously enjoyed. Keith played a couple shows with Johnnie about 10 years after they cut "Key to the Highway" and "Tanqueray." Johnnie was a great piano player and I love hearing him with the Winos and (all too briefly) with the Stones. Johnnie or Ben Waters are the only people I've heard that bring to the table what Stu did for the Stones. Chuck acquit himself nicely on "Fancy Man Blues" but it's rare he plays a real piano.
Oh, didn't mean to imply you denied Keiths help.I'm just trying to sort how that dynamic existed between the 3 of them. I met Johnnie in Sydney Australia, I think it was 2003. What a nice guy! He took photos of his grandkids out of his wallet and showed them to me. Love his Johnnie B Bad release.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 6, 2019 22:27
Quote
MathijsQuote
georgie48Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48
The thing with Johnny Johnson is that he actually delivered essential musical parts to the songs, allowing Chuck to add (great!) lyrics. Lyrics as such don't neccesarily result into great (musical) songs. So Johnson/Berry (or Berry/Johnson) credits would have been nice (and decent) in cases.
It's a difficult one, Georgie. No doubt Chuck let himself be inspired of licks from Johnnie, Louis Jordan etc. However, what he did with it was to create a template for his songs, musically. And none of these guys had the patent on 12 bar boogie. Those 12 bars (with THAT lick) became a vehicle for adding melodies and lyrics.
I don't know what would be right: Crediting Johnnie on every song, or simply some of the first songs?
Like I said, it's difficult
It's difficult indeed, DP.
I try to look at it this way. Selfishness is a common thing among people (and animals alike ...). Many felt that Brian should have been credited for Ruby Tuesday. Based on how the song developed (Keith's own words) he should have been. With Johnnie Johnson I think it is similar. Berry was clearly inspired, as was Keith. When a contribution has a clearly recognisable impact on a song that contribution should be credited.
Mick and Keith learned from their mistake(s). Pierre de Beauport was credited!
It's actually nonsense that Berry stole it all from Johnson. If there is one guy whom Berry 'stole' stuff from it is T-Bone walker. Many of the Berry leads and double stops Walker already did 10 years earlier.
And many people still do not fully understand how writing credits work. The author is the guy who creates something that wasn't there before. So if I hum a very basic melody I will get the credits. You can add bagpipes or the London Bach Choir to the melody, but the author will remain me. Now if you add a middle 8 to my melody you will be entitled to a part of the writing credits.
Mathijs
Yes, but even a musician can write a memorable riff or melody over chords and receive a songwriting credit. It’s really up to the artist/band to decide. For instance, Peter Green gave McVie and Fleetwood writing credits on a few songs on Then Play On because he wanted to incorporate them more, not because they actually wrote anything. All Black Sabbath songs were attributed to the band, despite Iommi and Butler writing the majority of everything.
Johnson went as far as suing Berry, but he waited waaay too long, so who knows.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: October 6, 2019 22:44
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Do you have that quote, Georgie?
If true, it's sensational. It really sounds like it was written the other way around - regarding the verses, the melody, the chorus etc. The outro, though, could have worked that way. But nothing is impossible for our boys.
I will have to do some solid looking around, DP, because I heard and read so much over the past 50+ years
It could very well be from an interview (or written by) of Bill Wyman, but don't pin me on that one yet.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: October 8, 2019 03:04
Quote
Rocky Dijon
According to what Johnnie wrote in his book (or told his co-author), he was on salary through 1973. After that he was just paid like any sideman or session musician. However, the recording artist and credited songwriter on all those records was Chuck Berry, there were no royalties to receive just because you play on someone's sessions or gigs. I don't believe he ever played with Chuck again once he sued him in 1991.
It's a tough situation. Chuck took those piano runs and converted them to guitar and created a unique sound, but it's not like Johnnie had a bunch of completed compositions and Chuck stole them. Did he deserve credit for at least some songs as a co-writer? Probably, but moral arguments are not a matter of breaking the law. Even if it hadn't been over thirty years after the fact when Johnnie finally sued, I doubt very much Chuck broke the law in calling himself the songwriter. Sadly, an opportunistic lawyer likely saw a chance to take advantage of the situation and Johnnie went along with it after getting advice from his handlers.
I look at it like by the time is was all said and done, Keith deserved that black eye from Chuck or, perhaps more accurately, had Chuck never punched Keith; he probably êwould have kept working on and off with Johnnie for the rest of his life as he had done. As for the question of did he really drive a bus, I imagine he did. Chuck wasn't selling out stadiums or arenas and the hits had long since dried up. I doubt Johnnie was getting rich working as an occasional sideman for Chuck in the seventies and eighties.
Interesting that you actually read Johnnie's book and came to the table with what was actually written. He was paid as a side man and was on salary. That is what is in his book and his interpretation of the business relationship.
As to where my father got his style from think about it like this.
1. He thought the world of T-Bone Walker, Carl Hogan and Charlie Christian. My dad's playing style can be traced directly to those three guitarists.
2. My father grew up during the big band era where horns dominated the music scene. What keys did the big bands play in, horn keys.
3. My father played both saxophone (just ok, he was never going to be a John Coltrane, Dexter Gordan or Stan Getz) and piano (He was no Johnnie or Bernie Hancock) and knew his way around both.
4. Dad and Johnny did in fact perform after the law suit it was actuallg December 2000. It took place at Blueberry Hill about 6 months before Johnnie died. About the only time I stopped playing my guitar during a show. I stood there and watched the two of them make magic on the stage. I was also carried Johnnie's coffee out of the church and to his grave site. Those two guys were really, really close friends and as you picked up on Johnnie was talked into doing something not that he thought there was validity in it.
5. As to did he deserve credit for the music that was made. You traced a pretty good line of thought on the idea a barrister jumped on the chance to try and get paid (which they did). Was it legal or moral? I'd give both an affirmative since Johnnie states he was a salaried "employee". Anyone question that train of thought, ask Mick Taylor.
6. Did Keith deserve to be punched in the head. I've read the descriotions, have heard Keith talk about it and my dad told me his version of what happened. My thoughts? Its best to always be prepared to defend youself when a guy with really big hands is around and never just walk out on stage and surprise a guy that boxed as a teenager.
7. Yes, Johnnie did drive a bus. Childhood friends where the CEO and President of Available Citywide Transportation here in Saint Louis and Johnnie was one of the drivers. I saw him quite often while I was writing a tracking application for them (ahh, the days of dBase II and III.)
8. What side man or salaried musician has ever become rich? Unless they were a highly sought after session player the only people that get rich are the frontman/stars.
CBII
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: October 8, 2019 03:13
Quote
MathijsQuote
georgie48Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
georgie48
The thing with Johnny Johnson is that he actually delivered essential musical parts to the songs, allowing Chuck to add (great!) lyrics. Lyrics as such don't neccesarily result into great (musical) songs. So Johnson/Berry (or Berry/Johnson) credits would have been nice (and decent) in cases.
It's a difficult one, Georgie. No doubt Chuck let himself be inspired of licks from Johnnie, Louis Jordan etc. However, what he did with it was to create a template for his songs, musically. And none of these guys had the patent on 12 bar boogie. Those 12 bars (with THAT lick) became a vehicle for adding melodies and lyrics.
I don't know what would be right: Crediting Johnnie on every song, or simply some of the first songs?
Like I said, it's difficult
It's difficult indeed, DP.
I try to look at it this way. Selfishness is a common thing among people (and animals alike ...). Many felt that Brian should have been credited for Ruby Tuesday. Based on how the song developed (Keith's own words) he should have been. With Johnnie Johnson I think it is similar. Berry was clearly inspired, as was Keith. When a contribution has a clearly recognisable impact on a song that contribution should be credited.
Mick and Keith learned from their mistake(s). Pierre de Beauport was credited!
It's actually nonsense that Berry stole it all from Johnson. If there is one guy whom Berry 'stole' stuff from it is T-Bone walker. Many of the Berry leads and double stops Walker already did 10 years earlier.
And many people still do not fully understand how writing credits work. The author is the guy who creates something that wasn't there before. So if I hum a very basic melody I will get the credits. You can add bagpipes or the London Bach Choir to the melody, but the author will remain me. Now if you add a middle 8 to my melody you will be entitled to a part of the writing credits.
Mathijs
Mathijs, DING!
I just basically said the same thing about T-Bone Walker and added a couple other guitarists my father loved. My dad happily admitted T-Bone Walker, Carl Hogan and Charlie Christian laid down the law for him.
Basic structure / melody is the tried a true template for credit and publishing rights. That may change with the most recent suits in the courts about publishing rights to solos/hooks etc...
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 8, 2019 03:25
Louis Jordan …. musta been an
influence on Chuck lyric and performance wise
ROCKMAN
influence on Chuck lyric and performance wise
ROCKMAN
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
CBII
()
Date: October 8, 2019 03:41
Quote
Rockman
Louis Jordan …. musta been an
influence on Chuck lyric and performance wise
Absolutely, he was another one of my dad's hero's.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: October 8, 2019 05:07
O/T but just an FYI - The Chuck documentary "Hail Hail Rock And Roll" will be released on Blu Ray 11/19.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Carnaby
()
Date: October 9, 2019 00:51
Where is the download for this? Thanks!
Roll Over Beethoven
(Chuck Berry cover) (Ben Waters band only)
Play Video
Nadine
(Chuck Berry cover) (Ben Waters band only)
Play Video
Instrumental
(Ben Waters & Tom Waters only)
Play Video
Little Queenie
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Down the Road Apiece
(Will Bradley Trio cover)
Play Video
I'm Talking About You
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Blue Feeling
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Route 66
(Bobby Troup cover)
Play Video
Wee Wee Hours
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Around and Around
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Almost Grown
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Back in the U.S.A.
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Mad Lad
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
No Particular Place to Go
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Run Rudolph Run
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Worried Life Blues
(Big Maceo cover)
Play Video
Hey Santa Clause
(with Imelda May)
Play Video
Rock and Roll Music
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Johnny B. Goode
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Encore:
Jump, Jive, an' Wail
(Louis Prima cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Bye Bye Johnny
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Roll Over Beethoven
(Chuck Berry cover) (Ben Waters band only)
Play Video
Nadine
(Chuck Berry cover) (Ben Waters band only)
Play Video
Instrumental
(Ben Waters & Tom Waters only)
Play Video
Little Queenie
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Down the Road Apiece
(Will Bradley Trio cover)
Play Video
I'm Talking About You
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Blue Feeling
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Route 66
(Bobby Troup cover)
Play Video
Wee Wee Hours
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Around and Around
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Almost Grown
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Back in the U.S.A.
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Mad Lad
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
No Particular Place to Go
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Run Rudolph Run
(Chuck Berry cover)
Play Video
Worried Life Blues
(Big Maceo cover)
Play Video
Hey Santa Clause
(with Imelda May)
Play Video
Rock and Roll Music
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Johnny B. Goode
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Encore:
Jump, Jive, an' Wail
(Louis Prima cover) (with Imelda May)
Play Video
Bye Bye Johnny
(Chuck Berry cover) (with Imelda May)
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: October 9, 2019 05:41
If you mean the bootleg, try HOT STUFF for a link before it is officially released. The official release is next month.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: October 9, 2019 07:06
Quote
CBII
As to where my father got his style from ...
As always, I appreciate the info you provide!Quote
Nikkei
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry? /// It seems a glaring omission the more I think about it.
I see their entire career as a tribute to Chuck Berry.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: October 9, 2019 08:03
That's an over the top statement
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: October 9, 2019 15:42
Quote
Nikkei
That's an over the top statement
And similar to what Keith has stated himself, more than once.
And I'd have to go thru their catalog to check, but I am guessing they've covered CB songs at least 10 times, likely more. How can one even imply they haven't paid tribute to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-09 15:44 by LeonidP.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: October 9, 2019 17:31
Well that was the point of my question: They used to play his songs throughout their career, but not since his passing away. In my mind that is odd, seeing how they played Ray Charles and James Brown songs in 2006/07.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: October 9, 2019 17:40
I suppose I should have named the thread "Petition for Little Queenie" and it would have got a very different response. There seems to be a defensive mindset
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 10, 2019 01:41
they shoulda hadda crack at Betty Jean …. rollin' lil thing it is …..
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: October 10, 2019 08:18
Quote
Nikkei
Well that was the point of my question: They used to play his songs throughout their career, but not since his passing away. In my mind that is odd, seeing how they played Ray Charles and James Brown songs in 2006/07.
i'd say the tribute is better when you cover the songs when the artist is alive ... still, in the beginning, CB was covered the most, i believe, including Come On as the first single, and hence the point of my comment that their career has been a CB tribute.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
boogaloojef
()
Date: October 11, 2019 04:29
Quote
LeonidPQuote
Nikkei
That's an over the top statement
And similar to what Keith has stated himself, more than once.
And I'd have to go thru their catalog to check, but I am guessing they've covered CB songs at least 10 times, likely more. How can one even imply they haven't paid tribute to him.
I burned this cdr of Chuck Berry associated songs which the Stones covered and I play it frequently.
Come On
Bye Bye Johnny
Memphis Tennessee BBC
Roll Over Beethoven BBC
Route 66
Carol
Beautiful Delilah BBC
Don't Lie To Me
Reelin' And Rockin' (outtake)
Confessin' The Blues
Around And Around
Talkin' About You
Down The Road Apiece
You Can't Catch Me
Little Queenie - Live 1969
Let It Rock - Live 1971
Back In The U.S.A. (outtake)
Sweet Little Sixteen - Live 1978
Sweet Little Rock 'N' Roller - bonus track - New Barbarians live 1979
Run Rudolph Run - bonus track rare Keith Richards single
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-11 04:32 by boogaloojef.
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 11, 2019 09:06
Quote
boogaloojefQuote
LeonidPQuote
Nikkei
That's an over the top statement
And similar to what Keith has stated himself, more than once.
And I'd have to go thru their catalog to check, but I am guessing they've covered CB songs at least 10 times, likely more. How can one even imply they haven't paid tribute to him.
I burned this cdr of Chuck Berry associated songs which the Stones covered and I play it frequently.
Come On
Bye Bye Johnny
Memphis Tennessee BBC
Roll Over Beethoven BBC
Route 66
Carol
Beautiful Delilah BBC
Don't Lie To Me
Reelin' And Rockin' (outtake)
Confessin' The Blues
Around And Around
Talkin' About You
Down The Road Apiece
You Can't Catch Me
Little Queenie - Live 1969
Let It Rock - Live 1971
Back In The U.S.A. (outtake)
Sweet Little Sixteen - Live 1978
Sweet Little Rock 'N' Roller - bonus track - New Barbarians live 1979
Run Rudolph Run - bonus track rare Keith Richards single
Worried Life Blues by the New Barbarians could also be added here
Re: Tribute to Chuck Berry?
Posted by:
SomeTorontoGirl
()
Date: October 11, 2019 14:53
I picked up a great compilation several years ago, Chuck Berry Revisited, supposed to include all Stones covers of Chuck’s songs. Great to listen to.
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