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Nikkei
"Being prolific doesn't mean shit" typical Keith remark you can't quite agree with

Ahh yeah that's the correct quote, thanks Nikkei.

And then he mentioned his "three dynamite riffs", so it was his way of saying quality over quantity.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

He's right in that context. But he wouldn't say that if someone were to call him prolific.

True, but seems he hasn't really been "prolific" in decades, so doubt anyone would ever call him that.
He seems to be more selective and focused now - unlike Neil Young for example who releases anything and everything whether it's good or bad, for better or worse.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Nikkei
"Being prolific doesn't mean shit" typical Keith remark you can't quite agree with

Does it belie an insecurity that is surprising from a dude who has written some GREAT rock songs? Why would it occur to anyone to call a bandmate's album dogshit? Why rag on a bandmate's prolific-ness? Of course, it's probably all just to sell some papers and get some ink and the guys both love each other's solo output.

I've never been a fan of Mick's albums mostly because, as Mick always likes to be "on trend", they sound too much of the times in which they were made.

..and I've always hated those 80s production values.

The band's output through the 80s suffered much from them too.

[ Ironically, Keith's solo stuff avoided this issue simply because he's a bit of a musical Luddite...and as a consequence it now sounds less dated ]

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GasLightStreet

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kowalski
Just bought an original Wandering Spirit LP for next to nothing. Horrible cover but what a great album it is...

It is a horrible cover... but it sticks out, kinda like TATTOO YOU.

I think all the album covers of his solo albums are horrible. And the WS in not even the worst of them! Album itself is very good though.

It's odd when compared to the Stones' album covers. They are very good, almost all of them.

On the other hand Keith's Talk is Cheap has a very good cover. Crosseyd Heart has not that good one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-05 18:33 by rollingon.

I'd be interested in a 'She's the Boss' and 'Primitive Cool' CD re-issue, as I still just have the old CBS editions...which I think is all there's ever been for those?

'Wandering Spirit' has actually diluted in potency for me over the years. I think the whole "what if it were a Stones album" thing has actually made it harder to listen to, simply because I don't hear Keith, Charlie and Ronnie. The 80's solo albums are easier to take somehow because they are so clearly not Stones albums, whereas 'Wandering Spirit' seems to be trying to be one, if that makes sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-05 23:37 by floodonthepage.

SHE'S THE BOSS, in many ways, builds on UNDERCOVER's musical direction though with much lighter lyrics. PRIMITIVE COOL is made to tour with the exception of the misguided single. WANDERING SPIRIT is Stones-ish, but not The Stones. I never think of the songs as Stones songs so much as the Mick equivalent of what Keith and The Winos were doing - familiar Stones identity but pursuing R&B influences deeper than the Stone would do. GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is the one where little of it seems like Mick to me. Hideaway is the forerunner of Rain Fall Down and Too Far Gone is Stones-ish. Lucky Day seems rooted enough, but much of the rest of it was too far removed for my comfort zone. It felt like Mick was singing songs others had written rather than Mick investing himself in the creation of music stretching his boundaries as an artist. The four proper songs on ALFIE were hit and miss. Charmed Life was cringe-worthy and SuperHeavy, for the most part, was an abomination. There were good songs somewhere in Warring People and I Don't Mind, but the collaborations felt like channel surfing through radio formats. The whole album felt like a bad cut and paste job with contributions that rarely gelled. As for Gotta Get a Grip, it was noise and England Lost sounded like something from Bill Wyman's STUFF album. In all likelihood, Mick's musical interests simply left me behind like most of what is found on the radio.

@ Mick Jagger
My complete solo album catalogue has been remastered on vinyl and is available to pre-order now - out December 6! [mickjagger.lnk.to]

[twitter.com]

Quote
floodonthepage
I'd be interested in a 'She's the Boss' and 'Primitive Cool' CD re-issue, as I still just have the old CBS editions...which I think is all there's ever been for those?

Yeah, the Atlantic reissues from 1993 were just the CBS CDs with the logos changed. I was always surprised by how flat some of the tracks sound.

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Rocky Dijon

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floodonthepage
I'd be interested in a 'She's the Boss' and 'Primitive Cool' CD re-issue, as I still just have the old CBS editions...which I think is all there's ever been for those?

Yeah, the Atlantic reissues from 1993 were just the CBS CDs with the logos changed. I was always surprised by how flat some of the tracks sound.

Oh, I never knew about the reissues in '93, window-dressing reissues though it sounds like they were.

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Rocky Dijon
SHE'S THE BOSS, in many ways, builds on UNDERCOVER's musical direction though with much lighter lyrics. PRIMITIVE COOL is made to tour with the exception of the misguided single. WANDERING SPIRIT is Stones-ish, but not The Stones. I never think of the songs as Stones songs so much as the Mick equivalent of what Keith and The Winos were doing - familiar Stones identity but pursuing R&B influences deeper than the Stone would do. GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is the one where little of it seems like Mick to me. Hideaway is the forerunner of Rain Fall Down and Too Far Gone is Stones-ish. Lucky Day seems rooted enough, but much of the rest of it was too far removed for my comfort zone. It felt like Mick was singing songs others had written rather than Mick investing himself in the creation of music stretching his boundaries as an artist. The four proper songs on ALFIE were hit and miss. Charmed Life was cringe-worthy and SuperHeavy, for the most part, was an abomination. There were good songs somewhere in Warring People and I Don't Mind, but the collaborations felt like channel surfing through radio formats. The whole album felt like a bad cut and paste job with contributions that rarely gelled. As for Gotta Get a Grip, it was noise and England Lost sounded like something from Bill Wyman's STUFF album. In all likelihood, Mick's musical interests simply left me behind like most of what is found on the radio.

SHE'S THE BOSS builds on UNDERCOVER?

That is hilarious. I don't hear that at all. STB is awful. Horrendous. It makes U sound like BEGGARS BANQUET or LET IT BLEED or STICKY FINGERS or... you get the point.

I like Sweet Thing and kind of like Visions Of Paradise (I suppose just for the sake of it being obviously of the moment but also it is different for Mick) and Hideaway, regarding the not-sounding-Stones solo songs - but the songs that sound like the Stones or even have an attitude, like Put Me In The Trash, Kow Tow, Hang On To Me Tonight, Secrets, Mother Of A Man, Wired All Night, Lucky In Love, Peace For The Wicked, Evening Gown, are the best ones, so Throwaway, of course, is fantastic (whether it is or isn't). Overall, though, his solo recordings are brilliant failures - very few sound un-Stones enough and there's no weight behind the albums as a whole.

Jeff Beck didn't help at all. Imitating Fight and Hold Back with Shoot Off Your Mouth didn't help, either.

It blows my mind that Charmed Life could be, and probably is, worse than Let's Work: who let Jagger think those were even worth recording, yet alone releasing!!!????

I have his 4 solo albums. I won't be buying them again. The future looms so damn the past - I may be putting his 4 in the trash.

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GasLightStreet
SHE'S THE BOSS builds on UNDERCOVER?
That is hilarious. I don't hear that at all. STB is awful. Horrendous. It makes U sound like BEGGARS BANQUET or LET IT BLEED or STICKY FINGERS or... you get the point.

I'm not suggesting it's the same quality as UNDERCOVER. I like and sometimes love UNDERCOVER. I usually only find the first single on SHE'S THE BOSS worthwhile. That said, yes, I'll argue it most definitely builds on UNDERCOVER musically. "Just Another Night" is a fairly close cousin of "Undercover of the Night" and "Lucky in Love" and "She's the Boss" can be seen as natural progressions of the path he took with "Too Much Blood." Likewise, "Running Out of Luck" which digs deep into the avant-garde synthesized funk of Material tries to immerse itself in the same fashion as "Feel On, Baby" did in following Lee "Scratch" Perry's early experiments with dub. None of these songs are the equal of UNDERCOVER (except possibly "Just Another Night" which I certainly prefer to "Too Much Blood"), but that album became the musical springboard for Mick to go solo. Just as Side Two of UNDERCOVER ended with three more familiar sounding Stones tracks, likewise Mick attempted more conventional songwriting with tracks like "Lonely at the Top," "Hard Woman," and "Secrets." To a degree, they're born from Stones tracks either released or unreleased, but with the goal that they not sound like cliched Stones. Cue the missing intro to "All the Way Down" - just drop it in if Keith can't avoid playing like Keith. Dreadful as it is, "Turn the Girl Loose" tries hard to follow "Emotional Rescue" right down to the lyrical narrative. Only "Half a Loaf" which does more than echo Prince the way "Just Another Night" does at one point, this one is an actual Prince pastiche, only this lone track sounded like something Mick hadn't tried on before.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I will take my seat to the strains of "Honest Man" while the Gaslight burns low.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-06 01:34 by Rocky Dijon.

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GasLightStreet
It blows my mind that Charmed Life could be, and probably is, worse than Let's Work: who let Jagger think those were even worth recording, yet alone releasing!!!????

"Let's Work" heard in something other than an edit of the extended dance mix might have had some promise. The opening guitar chords at least. The lyrics provide some echo of "Hang Fire" in terms of Mick's views on socio-economic matters, but it's hard finding anything positive to say about it except that yes, it is better than "Yeah, whoo, livin' the Charmed Life." Karis' Macy Gray imitation is the best part. Bad as it is, is "Charmed Life" truly worse than "England Lost" or "Gotta Get a Grip?" The latter sounds like Billy Bob Thornton's Sling Blade character with those guttural mmm-hmms. "Some folks call it Gotta Get a Grip, mmm-hmmm."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-06 01:42 by Rocky Dijon.

Mick Jagger’s solo albums to be reissued on half-speed mastered vinyl
(from superdeluxeedition.com)

Interesting that Wandering Spirit is reissued on a double LP as its 14 tracks were stacked on a single LP on the first release.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-06 03:35 by kowalski.

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Rocky Dijon

Quote
GasLightStreet
SHE'S THE BOSS builds on UNDERCOVER?
That is hilarious. I don't hear that at all. STB is awful. Horrendous. It makes U sound like BEGGARS BANQUET or LET IT BLEED or STICKY FINGERS or... you get the point.

I'm not suggesting it's the same quality as UNDERCOVER. I like and sometimes love UNDERCOVER. I usually only find the first single on SHE'S THE BOSS worthwhile. That said, yes, I'll argue it most definitely builds on UNDERCOVER musically. "Just Another Night" is a fairly close cousin of "Undercover of the Night" and "Lucky in Love" and "She's the Boss" can be seen as natural progressions of the path he took with "Too Much Blood." Likewise, "Running Out of Luck" which digs deep into the avant-garde synthesized funk of Material tries to immerse itself in the same fashion as "Feel On, Baby" did in following Lee "Scratch" Perry's early experiments with dub. None of these songs are the equal of UNDERCOVER (except possibly "Just Another Night" which I certainly prefer to "Too Much Blood"), but that album became the musical springboard for Mick to go solo. Just as Side Two of UNDERCOVER ended with three more familiar sounding Stones tracks, likewise Mick attempted more conventional songwriting with tracks like "Lonely at the Top," "Hard Woman," and "Secrets." To a degree, they're born from Stones tracks either released or unreleased, but with the goal that they not sound like cliched Stones. Cue the missing intro to "All the Way Down" - just drop it in if Keith can't avoid playing like Keith. Dreadful as it is, "Turn the Girl Loose" tries hard to follow "Emotional Rescue" right down to the lyrical narrative. Only "Half a Loaf" which does more than echo Prince the way "Just Another Night" does at one point, this one is an actual Prince pastiche, only this lone track sounded like something Mick hadn't tried on before.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I will take my seat to the strains of "Honest Man" while the Gaslight burns low.

I know what you mean, although the results are different, also groove-wise.

Some of the same musicians (Brahms Condul etc) are also on STB, if memory serves. The way of experimenting with percussion and rhythmic ideas certainly picked up where four of the Undercover-tracks left.

Interesting that Wandering Spirit is reissued on a double LP as its 14 tracks were stacked on a single LP on the first release.

mmmmm interesting … There have been recent
releases of Dylans - Blood on tracks and Sly's
There's A Riot Going On as double albums that play at 45RPM …..



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman
Interesting that Wandering Spirit is reissued on a double LP as its 14 tracks were stacked on a single LP on the first release.

mmmmm interesting … There have been recent
releases of Dylans - Blood on tracks and Sly's
There's A Riot Going On as double albums that play at 45RPM …..

It's to make it even louder after they've brick walled it !

Quote
Rockman
Interesting that Wandering Spirit is reissued on a double LP as its 14 tracks were stacked on a single LP on the first release.

mmmmm interesting … There have been recent
releases of Dylans - Blood on tracks and Sly's
There's A Riot Going On as double albums that play at 45RPM …..

The vinyl presses are different today, I learned. There is no way you'll get away with more than 22 minutes on one side. Preferably, it should be less than 20 minutes. This has caused some problems with an album I'm about to release myself...

Quote
Rocky Dijon
SHE'S THE BOSS, in many ways, builds on UNDERCOVER's musical direction though with much lighter lyrics. PRIMITIVE COOL is made to tour with the exception of the misguided single. WANDERING SPIRIT is Stones-ish, but not The Stones. I never think of the songs as Stones songs so much as the Mick equivalent of what Keith and The Winos were doing - familiar Stones identity but pursuing R&B influences deeper than the Stone would do. GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY is the one where little of it seems like Mick to me. Hideaway is the forerunner of Rain Fall Down and Too Far Gone is Stones-ish. Lucky Day seems rooted enough, but much of the rest of it was too far removed for my comfort zone. It felt like Mick was singing songs others had written rather than Mick investing himself in the creation of music stretching his boundaries as an artist. The four proper songs on ALFIE were hit and miss. Charmed Life was cringe-worthy and SuperHeavy, for the most part, was an abomination. There were good songs somewhere in Warring People and I Don't Mind, but the collaborations felt like channel surfing through radio formats. The whole album felt like a bad cut and paste job with contributions that rarely gelled. As for Gotta Get a Grip, it was noise and England Lost sounded like something from Bill Wyman's STUFF album. In all likelihood, Mick's musical interests simply left me behind like most of what is found on the radio.

I don't quite agree Rocky re. STB reference. But since the thought comes from you I had to ponder it a while. I think within the Stones framework, STB doesn't touch so much on UC, but lays out the path of destruction that is to become "Dirty Work". With Jagger barking words, Jagger craving huge guitars and those massive 80's snare sounds.
Primitive Cool' was possibly even worse. But I think you're right in saying that it was made to tour.
'Wandering Spirit' we all know and love.
And GITD...I'd never looked at it the way you sum it up. In my mind it was actually very much Jagger. Because of the film "Being Mick", when you see how organic the sessions are, the writing, his family etc. Plus, I am a pushover for that "Dancing in the Starlight" song. I love that.

This double album thing is a mixed blessing really.

Traditionally , when mastering was largely a question of the engineer's skills, 40 minutes was about the optimum duration of music which could be cut into a 12" LP before you started to impact on the dynamics, low end and overall playback levels.

[Simply put, low frequencies take up more groove space and louder levels use more groove space.]

So that 40 minutes or so, with ten or so 4 minutes-ish songs became kind of the accepted format for albums.

All this changed through the 80s with CD.
Because you could typically get an hour or more on a CD, the length of albums began to increase. [diluting the quality of released material in many cases...but that's another story ]

They were too long to fit comfortably on a single LP but the industry continued to shoehorn them on...with many LPs consequently being cut at lower than ideal levels, with very limited low end content and dynamics.

The industry didn't care very much as vinyl was perceived as being on the way out, so it wasn't an issue.

[Two Stones albums which suffered on vinyl from being too long for it were Steel Wheels and Flashpoint. The latter especially because they also squeezed Hi Wire and Sex Drive on it !...with the whole album sounding very anaemic and flat ]

On the face of it remastering some of these long albums to two discs should be a huge improvement...but it's more often an opportunity lost .

This because rather than asking a highly skilled mastering engineer to give us a natural and dynamic sound with good bandwidth ...they just cut the whole thing as loud as possible with shed loads of compression !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-06 14:39 by Spud.

Quote
Spud
This double album thing is a mixed blessing really.

Traditionally , when mastering was largely a question of the engineer's skills, 40 minutes was about the optimum duration of music which could be cut into a 12" LP before you started to impact on the dynamics, low end and overall playback levels.

[Simply put, low frequencies take up more groove space and louder levels use more groove space.]

So that 40 minutes or so, with ten or so 4 minutes-ish songs became kind of the accepted format for albums.

All this changed through the 80s with CD.
Because you could typically get an hour or more on a CD, the length of albums began to increase. [diluting the quality of released material in many cases...but that's another story ]

They were too long to fit comfortably on a single LP but the industry continued to shoehorn them on...with many LPs consequently being cut at lower than ideal levels, with very limited low end content and dynamics.

The industry didn't care very much as vinyl was perceived as being on the way out, so it wasn't an issue.

[Two Stones albums which suffered on vinyl from being too long for it were Steel Wheels and Flashpoint. The latter especially because they also squeezed Hi Wire and Sex Drive on it !...with the whole album sounding very anaemic and flat ]

On the face of it remastering some of these long albums to two discs should be a huge improvement...but it's more often an opportunity lost .

This because rather than asking a highly skilled mastering engineer to give us a natural and dynamic sound with good bandwidth ...they just cut the whole thing as loud as possible with shed loads of compression !

It used to be 45 minutes (that's why my new album is... 44:27, or so).

Today it's 40 minutes max. It annoys me, as it seems I'll have to omit one song for the vinyl version

It's not a blessing at all, it's pure snobbery

The problem is that they want to do it all with programing today.

A skilled engineer will easily get 45mins on with no discernable issues whatsoever.

It's the running times approaching 55 & 60 mins that push the envelope too far.

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Palace Revolution 2000
I don't quite agree Rocky re. STB reference. But since the thought comes from you I had to ponder it a while.

Kind of you, but my opinions on a good day are worth as much as anyone else's. I can't hear "Undercover of the Night" without thinking how Ronnie is playing part of "Sympathy for the Devil." Different songs strike people differently.

As for GITD, the ones I like quite a bit are Dancing in the Starlight, Hideaway, Lucky Day, Too Far Gone, and Blue. I actively dislike Visions of Paradise, Joy (apart from the guitar), and God Gave Me Everything (way too much Lenny Kravitz noise for me). I can take or leave Don't Call Me Up, Goddess in the Doorway, Everybody Getting High, Gun, Brand New Set of Rules, and If Things Could Be Different. I wish What's Left of Me had been released with Mick's vocals and I wish there was a version of Nothing But the Wheel with just Mick singing. Those are actually my favorites of Mick in 2001. None of them can touch You Win Again by Keith, though. Still a Fool by Keith from the same period is also very good. I would have loved an album of minimalist rootsy music from Keith with George on drums and Fraboni producing. A pity it never materialized. Studio L had something special going.

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DandelionPowderman
The vinyl presses are different today, I learned. There is no way you'll get away with more than 22 minutes on one side. Preferably, it should be less than 20 minutes. This has caused some problems with an album I'm about to release myself...

Just follow the Clash's advice and CUT THE CRAP (if there is any) and you're safe. Although Rocky wouldn't like that...

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Rocky Dijon

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Palace Revolution 2000
I don't quite agree Rocky re. STB reference. But since the thought comes from you I had to ponder it a while.

Kind of you, but my opinions on a good day are worth as much as anyone else's. I can't hear "Undercover of the Night" without thinking how Ronnie is playing part of "Sympathy for the Devil." Different songs strike people differently.

As for GITD, the ones I like quite a bit are Dancing in the Starlight, Hideaway, Lucky Day, Too Far Gone, and Blue. I actively dislike Visions of Paradise, Joy (apart from the guitar), and God Gave Me Everything (way too much Lenny Kravitz noise for me). I can take or leave Don't Call Me Up, Goddess in the Doorway, Everybody Getting High, Gun, Brand New Set of Rules, and If Things Could Be Different. I wish What's Left of Me had been released with Mick's vocals and I wish there was a version of Nothing But the Wheel with just Mick singing. Those are actually my favorites of Mick in 2001. None of them can touch You Win Again by Keith, though. Still a Fool by Keith from the same period is also very good. I would have loved an album of minimalist rootsy music from Keith with George on drums and Fraboni producing. A pity it never materialized. Studio L had something special going.

Hah! That's what I always wished for too - and what would be a perfect candidate for my "Save A Bigger Bang" dreamworld project from the other thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-11-06 17:39 by retired_dog.

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Rocky Dijon

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I don't quite agree Rocky re. STB reference. But since the thought comes from you I had to ponder it a while.

Kind of you, but my opinions on a good day are worth as much as anyone else's. I can't hear "Undercover of the Night" without thinking how Ronnie is playing part of "Sympathy for the Devil." Different songs strike people differently.

As for GITD, the ones I like quite a bit are Dancing in the Starlight, Hideaway, Lucky Day, Too Far Gone, and Blue. I actively dislike Visions of Paradise, Joy (apart from the guitar), and God Gave Me Everything (way too much Lenny Kravitz noise for me). I can take or leave Don't Call Me Up, Goddess in the Doorway, Everybody Getting High, Gun, Brand New Set of Rules, and If Things Could Be Different. I wish What's Left of Me had been released with Mick's vocals and I wish there was a version of Nothing But the Wheel with just Mick singing. Those are actually my favorites of Mick in 2001. None of them can touch You Win Again by Keith, though. Still a Fool by Keith from the same period is also very good. I would have loved an album of minimalist rootsy music from Keith with George on drums and Fraboni producing. A pity it never materialized. Studio L had something special going.

Yes, on GITD the opening "Paradise" song is terrible. As is 'Joy", and with me it is also the guitar I like. I do like 'Gun" because of that snare that they fade in; and "Brand New Set of Rules" too.
Jagger got the best feedback in his solo career from the ALFIE soundtrack. But played back to back those songs are Jagger by the number and very similar. the verses of "Lets make up" are identical, and I mean identical to "Don't call me up". I do not like Dave Stewart when he is not a Eurythmic; he reminds me a lot of Don Was.
But it was so telling in those years, how right Keith was, and how lost Mick was without him. I never got the feeling that Keith was lost w/o Mick though.

I'm never comfortable blaming collaborators. I've picked on Matt Clifford mercilessly through the years, but some of his work with the Stones or Mick solo is terrific (STEEL WHEELS and Angel in My Heart, the live arrangement of Play with Fire, Hideaway, Rain Fall Down). Don Was' productions are so different from one another that I can't say he's the wrong producer. I would have liked to have heard him tackle STEEL WHEELS to be honest. I'm also aware that there are times he is anything but a "yes man" and has pissed off either Mick or Keith, but not enough to cut ties. The same with Chuck. I like some of Mick's work with Dave Stewart quite a bit (Throwaway, Kow Tow, Old Habits, Blind Leading the Blind, Warring People), but I have no sense if that is because of Dave or in spite of him. I tend to think it's unfair to say in spite of him.

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retired_dog
Just follow the Clash's advice and CUT THE CRAP (if there is any) and you're safe. Although Rocky wouldn't like that...

As if I'm the only one here who bought all three Vigotone box sets of VOODOO LOUNGE outtakes, alternate versions, demos, etc. We're completists. I'm just honest about all my Japanese import copies, CD singles, special editions, etc. We don't just buy their crap, we buy the toilet paper.

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retired_dog

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DandelionPowderman
The vinyl presses are different today, I learned. There is no way you'll get away with more than 22 minutes on one side. Preferably, it should be less than 20 minutes. This has caused some problems with an album I'm about to release myself...

Just follow the Clash's advice and CUT THE CRAP (if there is any) and you're safe. Although Rocky wouldn't like that...

But... but.. Strummer released that album

Yeah, it looks like one tune has to go..