I have to admit that I probably haven't listened to Aftermath more than twice in my couple of decades of fandom...

Yes, I know. I'm dodging the rotten corgettes right now.

Anyhoo, what struck me (and I'm sure for many of you this is something obvious that you've known for many a year) is how much Midnight Ramber is such a direct progression from Goin'Home. Start with some fairly standard blues theme, but end up in a lengthy, shifting epic. The changes in the shuffle (sublter in GH), moments of buiding intensity, Jagger getting freestyle, occasionally whispery, occasionally shouting.

Am I the only person who hadn't previously realised it?

What other pairs of songs do you see as parent-offspring?

(yeah, I know, JJF-SS-MBH)

I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.

Going Home? Slick and uninspired? For 1966? It's monumentally long and kind of gutsy for 1966. Who was putting out 11 minute jam numbers in 1966. But yeah, I can see a progression to Midnight Rambler. Hell, Flight 505 starts out with Stu tinkling the Satisfaction riff, and Charlie throws in a few Get Off My Cloud drum fills.

Goin' Home's not a bad track, and I admire its length. But I think its a fine 4 minute song, and a laughably bad 11 minute one. Literally goes nowhere and is like the most pointless long song just to be long that there is (as opposed to a long song with purpose like The Doors The End). Cool for historical purposes, and again if it had any sort of editing done on the final cut it would have fit perfectly on that record as one of the lesser known deep cuts. But the length kills anything that song may have had without it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-05 21:38 by RollingFreak.

[iorr.org]

I've always thought there was a connection between these two songs. The length of going home does seem odd and comes out of nowhere but I think it signals a change that was in the air. Its their first step into psychedelia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-05 22:23 by ryanpow.

Wicked as it Seems - Love is Strong
Lady Jane - New Faces

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24FPS
Going Home? Slick and uninspired? For 1966? It's monumentally long and kind of gutsy for 1966. Who was putting out 11 minute jam numbers in 1966.fills.

I think the Graham Bond organisation (for example) was further up that lengthy gutsy blues road in 1963 already. The Stones took the more commercial and bad boy looks approach. Nothing wrong with that of course. The greatest R&R band in the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-06 01:05 by TheflyingDutchman.

I think MR is a natural progression of GH. There are parts (and sounds) in the studio recording of MR that could have been on GH. Although MR is a tad faster. both songs are blues tunes that evolve with different parts - albeit slightly differently: MR has more different parts musically. GH has more going on emotionally and dynamically.

Both songs are essentially jams.

There are a few songs that could be taken as progressions of MR as well, imo:

Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Slave
How Can I Stop

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DandelionPowderman
I think MR is a natural progression of GH. There are parts (and sounds) in the studio recording of MR that could have been on GH. Although MR is a tad faster. both songs are blues tunes that evolve with different parts - albeit slightly differently: MR has more different parts musically. GH has more going on emotionally and dynamically.

Both songs are essentially jams.

I agree with Dandelion.
The reason why I like Midnight Rambler better is mainly because of sound. I guess in 1966, it was still not that common to have a more "in your face" loud distorted guitar sound but as a matter of fact, the studio version of Midnight Rambler is still relatively "mild", compared to the Get Yer Ya Ya's Out version. Which makes me wonder how Going Home could have sounded in a live version, in the years post-1968.
In any case, both songs have great licks, great ad-libs by Mick and an interesting interaction between the band members.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman
I think MR is a natural progression of GH. There are parts (and sounds) in the studio recording of MR that could have been on GH. Although MR is a tad faster. both songs are blues tunes that evolve with different parts - albeit slightly differently: MR has more different parts musically. GH has more going on emotionally and dynamically.

Both songs are essentially jams.

I agree with Dandelion.
The reason why I like Midnight Rambler better is mainly because of sound. I guess in 1966, it was still not that common to have a more "in your face" loud distorted guitar sound but as a matter of fact, the studio version of Midnight Rambler is still relatively "mild", compared to the Get Yer Ya Ya's Out version. Which makes me wonder how Going Home could have sounded in a live version, in the years post-1968.
In any case, both songs have great licks, great ad-libs by Mick and an interesting interaction between the band members.

It sounded rawer by 1967 already, as we can hear on the '67 Sessions-album which was releases before christmas.

It would be interesting indeed to hear a 1969-version (or later) of it - with two guitars.

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24FPS
Who was putting out 11 minute jam numbers in 1966 ?

Chuck and Bo !

Two_Great_Guitars

A side "Chuck's Beat" (Berry, Ellas McDaniel) – 10:39
B side "Bo's Beat" (McDaniel, Berry) – 14:08

Released August 1964
Recorded March 1964





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-06 13:42 by djgab.

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djgab

Quote
24FPS
Who was putting out 11 minute jam numbers in 1966 ?

Chuck and Bo !

Two_Great_Guitars

A side "Chuck's Beat" (Berry, Ellas McDaniel) – 10:39
B side "Bo's Beat" (McDaniel, Berry) – 14:08

Released August 1964
Recorded March 1964

They also released truncated versions on the single, it seems:

[www.discogs.com]

did

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Dandelion
They also released truncated versions on the single, it seems:

Did they keep the first minutes or looked for the best part of the jam ?

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djgab
did

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Dandelion
They also released truncated versions on the single, it seems:

Did they keep the first minutes or looked for the best part of the jam ?

Haven't checked. I need to get this album and the single

I think this also had a lot to do with Rambler.
video: [www.youtube.com]

And this:

video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-06 15:38 by Redhotcarpet.

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Redhotcarpet
I think this also had a lot to do with Rambler.
video: [www.youtube.com]

Sounds very "Ramblish". Was this recorded before Jagger and Richards were in Italy?

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Redhotcarpet
I think this also had a lot to do with Rambler.
video: [www.youtube.com]

Sounds very "Ramblish". Was this recorded before Jagger and Richards were in Italy to write Midnight Rambler?

Probably but theres no exact date for their trip to Italy. Doesnt really matter because they obviously incorporated this with the actual song that they indeed wrote in Italy.

Written by the Rolling Stones and inspired by Ry Cooder then. Hats off to Richards and Jagger's Lyrics. Great song



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-06 19:51 by TheflyingDutchman.

I guess I'm in the minority, here, but Goin' Home is my least favorite song on Aftermath. Yes, it was long, but IMO it didn't really go anywhere -- it did ebb and flow a bit, but there really wasn't much going on vocally or instrumentally that justified the length.

Rambler, on the other hand, is Rambler -- all kinds of tension and power created by everyone.

I get it that both are bluesy, but they don't sound the same to me at all; I don't consider them brothers, or even cousins.

I agree with texas on this.

The Boudoir Stomp for sure
Out of Control for the instrumental part
[youtu.be]

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TheflyingDutchman
I don't hear any similarities with Midnight Rambler, although it creates the same
atmosphere here and there. Having said that I feel that "Going Home" sounds uninspired, safe and slick to me. The final cut would almost make it to an ABBA album.

Haha, a good one... Throwing an ABBA card in in a rock and roll discussion is like using a nazi card in political discussios...

But yeah, if we leave the jam part out, the song itself is a rather innocent - and non-memorable - pop song, not much - if any - blues in it. Unlike with "Midnight Rambler", which is a pure blues rock song from the beginning to the end. What makes the the difference in "Goin' Home" is the jam part (and due to it, the length of the song - which I guess at the time was a kind of world record in pop music). It is an interesting bybrid in that sense: after the latest experiment of Jagger/Richard pop song-writing team we can see the good old club circuit blues band showing its true color (not many glimpses of that in AFTERMATH altogether). Those two elements didn't cohere so easily in those experimental days. I think it is one of the key tracks in AFTERMATH, and adds significantly to the 'statement' the album does.

And hey, aren't Bill's bass lines pure sex!

Compared to "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?", using the same 'trick' again, it is interesting to notice the progression of the band and Jagger/Richard song-writing skills. The 'song part' of "Knocking" is pure riff-based signature blues rock Stones, already established then, but the jazzy/progressive/Santana-like 'jam part' reaches altogether new waters, something we havent heard from them by then - and not actually since then (though "How Can I Stop" goes rather close).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-07 14:39 by Doxa.

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ryanpow
I've always thought there was a connection between these two songs. The length of going home does seem odd and comes out of nowhere but I think it signals a change that was in the air. Its their first step into psychedelia.

I'd say the first step into psychedelia is the opening track of Aftermath, Mother's Little Helper.

I reckon that Midnight Rambler came out of playing all those Bo Diddley songs in their early days.

And I reckon the reason a demo of it has never surfaced is because it was pretty much worked up on the spot in the studio and grew from a loosening up, Bo Diddley inspired jam. Almost like an inverted Cops'n'Robbers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-07 16:52 by Silver Dagger.

Hm yeah but don't forget Mr John Lee Hooker. And the actual song is pure Jagger/Richards. I think Mick's vocals are some of his best. Lyrics as well.

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Silver Dagger
I'd say that Midnight Rambler came out of playing all those Bo Diddley songs in their early days.

And I reckon the reason a demo of it has never surfaced is because it was pretty much worked up on the spot in the studio and grew from a loosening up, Bo Diddley inspired jam. Almost like an inverted Cops'n'Robbers.

Never thought about that relationship, but yeah, you surely have an interesting point there, adding nicely to the discussion in figuring the inspirational sources for this masterpiece song. Yeah, many of their early Bo Diddley numbers really were show highlights, with which they worked their crowds, and were a sort of loose, extended jams. Think of "Hey Crawdaddy" and "I'm Alright", of which we have recorded documents. I recall reading that during their Crawdaddy days, they could play even a 30 minute version of that 'signature song'. I think especially when playing "Midnight Rambler" live, they used that old experience of theirs gained back then in keeping the tension and drama of the song alive, especially when it is a question of doing that just by using one basic chord.

Listening to Keith's working out that B chord in original studio version, and going and going, you know, when hitting to the long middle section, one can even hear Bo's inspirational sources there, John Lee Hooker...(of course, beautifully dueting with Mick's Littlewalterian harp). AN ADDITION: mr. Redhotcarpet just made that point!

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-07 15:52 by Doxa.

MR had this sneaky, creepy feeling about it on the original version. The slightly slower pace, the clean guitar sound and the clanging slide guitar made it special and unique, imo.

The comparisons with other songs often stem from the live versions of MR, with its Status Quo-esque boogie and heavier guitar sound + some of Keith's licks.

It wouldn't have surprised me if they wrote it acoustically in Italy, and transformed it to electric guitar - maintaining as much of the spirit and dynamics of what they wrote as possible.

Some of that creepy feeling and angst is gone in the live versions, imo.