There is a paradox here. People today have much higher (or longer to be more exact) education than they used to have. But the language skills haven't developed in accordance to that.
University teachers here (Sweden) are complaining about the lack of basic language comprehension among students.

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Deltics
I wonder what Geoffrey Chaucer would make of it?

At TRUMPYNGTOUN, nat fer fro Cantebrigge,
Ther gooth a brook, and over that a brigge,
Upon the whiche brook ther stant a melle;
And this is verray sooth that I yow telle.
A millere was ther dwellynge many a day;
As any pecok he was proud and gay.
Pipen he koude and fisshe, and nettes beete,
And turne coppes, and wel wrastle and sheete;
Ay by his belt he baar a long panade,
And of a swerd ful trenchant was the blade.

[www.librarius.com]
[www.librarius.com]

I wish I knew whether this is dirty. Feel like I'm missing something important.

So, this is, like, actually quite an interesting thread, innit?

It's hard to know how to write a comment that is understood by everyone, but out of respect to those whose first language is not English, I won't continue in the same way. But, to some people, that might be easier to understand, depends on your age, where you grew up, etc. But not necessarily on your education.

I know of Oxbridge graduates who ask to 'get a coffee' (we are told it is an Americanism), so it's not because they are 'thick', it's just because of the changing use of language, and I can't understand why it would upset anyone!

I agree with all of you saying that language, both written and spoken, evolves all the time, and it's not really worth getting our knickers in a knot over, is it? (Is that from the 60's? - probably not pc now, but no offence meant).

In the 1950's my gran was very upset when we came home from school saying 'ain't', and my dad was fond of telling us, 'goats have kids, humans have children', and pretty upset they were too! But we still said these things, and now they are quite normal.

I love reading, writing and speaking the English language, and am saddened by what some see as its demise. It's just changing though, and we don't like it as we are getting older, just like my gran and dad.

I think the Internet and modern technology is a hugely contributory factor, it is the main way for lots of teenagers to communicate today, often leading to isolation and loneliness, sadly. As long as we keep on lol, btw, imho emojis etc, it will only get worse (imho).

But worse still, I have heard parents of young kids say ( and read on Internet), why waste time teaching young kids to write nowadays? It's a skill they just ain't gonna need, going forward.....

So, that I find kinda worrying and sad too, innit?
I'll just have to retreat to some music and not worry too much about it.......

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SomeTorontoGirl

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Deltics
I wonder what Geoffrey Chaucer would make of it?

At TRUMPYNGTOUN, nat fer fro Cantebrigge,
Ther gooth a brook, and over that a brigge,
Upon the whiche brook ther stant a melle;
And this is verray sooth that I yow telle.
A millere was ther dwellynge many a day;
As any pecok he was proud and gay.
Pipen he koude and fisshe, and nettes beete,
And turne coppes, and wel wrastle and sheete;
Ay by his belt he baar a long panade,
And of a swerd ful trenchant was the blade.

[www.librarius.com]
[www.librarius.com]

I wish I knew whether this is dirty. Feel like I'm missing something important.

It's not rude but this is!

This Absolon gan wype his mouth ful drie.
Derk was the nyght as pich, or as a cole,
And at the wyndow out she putte hir hole,
And Absolon, hym fil no bet ne wers,
But with his mouth he kiste hir naked ers
Ful savorly, er he were war of this.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

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ycagwywpmd

But worse still, I have heard parents of young kids say ( and read on Internet), why waste time teaching young kids to write nowadays? It's a skill they just ain't gonna need, going forward.....

Add educators to that list as well... I'm not sure what has come of it, but I can remember a school district in my area contemplating only teaching children to "print" and not "write" for just that reason. Between "PIN Numbers" and facial/fingerprint recognition technology a signature is turning into something that may eventually be remembered as "so old fashioned". Going to make it hard for autograph seekers.

Peace,
Mr DJA

I knew I could count on ya, Deltics!

From "The Big Bang Theory"

Amy: "'Thus swyved is the carpenter's wyfe;
And Absalon hath kist hir nether ye
And Nicholas is scalded in the towte
This tale is done, and God save al the rowte'"
Penny: "What the hell was that?"
Amy: "Bernadette dared me to tell a dirty story. The Miller's Tale by Chaucer is the dirtiest story I know. It would have been hidden in sock drawers if people in the 14 century had worn socks."

I love the Big Bang Theory but will just have to trust them that it's a dirty joke. I certainly can't claim to understand it!

Peace,
Mr DJA

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keefriff99

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MadMax
riff99 wrote: "Hey, here's a new concept! A stodgy old person ranting about the younger generation. Never saw THAT Before"


Well I've yet to reach 40 so I ain't that old pal. Did I hit a weak spot with my humble contribution to this thread? Your name and your comment suggest you were born in 1999, if so I apologize if I offended you.

Mind, I wrote
"..generations GENERALLY are rather thick".

I wasn't thinking about you as I don't know you Sir.

No, no, I'm actually 39.

I just try really hard not to knock younger people, because so often it's just a case of not being able to understand generational differences. Think of what people said about the Stones in the '60s, and now they're a worldwide institution.

I look forward to being an old geezer and still not being able to understand the generations below mine that have infected my generation and above with the amazing ability to not truly actually say what they mean to say by having everything be a comparison and then generalizations.

I mean, like, you know what I mean, like, and stuff like that?

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Deltics

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SomeTorontoGirl

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Deltics
I wonder what Geoffrey Chaucer would make of it?

At TRUMPYNGTOUN, nat fer fro Cantebrigge,
Ther gooth a brook, and over that a brigge,
Upon the whiche brook ther stant a melle;
And this is verray sooth that I yow telle.
A millere was ther dwellynge many a day;
As any pecok he was proud and gay.
Pipen he koude and fisshe, and nettes beete,
And turne coppes, and wel wrastle and sheete;
Ay by his belt he baar a long panade,
And of a swerd ful trenchant was the blade.

[www.librarius.com]
[www.librarius.com]

I wish I knew whether this is dirty. Feel like I'm missing something important.

It's not rude but this is!

This Absolon gan wype his mouth ful drie.
Derk was the nyght as pich, or as a cole,
And at the wyndow out she putte hir hole,
And Absolon, hym fil no bet ne wers,
But with his mouth he kiste hir naked ers
Ful savorly, er he were war of this.

As is this, also Chaucer, The Miller's tale (13th century)........ "And prively he caughte hire by the queynte" (and intimately he caught her by her c&%t)

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GasLightStreet

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keefriff99

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MadMax
riff99 wrote: "Hey, here's a new concept! A stodgy old person ranting about the younger generation. Never saw THAT Before"


Well I've yet to reach 40 so I ain't that old pal. Did I hit a weak spot with my humble contribution to this thread? Your name and your comment suggest you were born in 1999, if so I apologize if I offended you.

Mind, I wrote
"..generations GENERALLY are rather thick".

I wasn't thinking about you as I don't know you Sir.

No, no, I'm actually 39.

I just try really hard not to knock younger people, because so often it's just a case of not being able to understand generational differences. Think of what people said about the Stones in the '60s, and now they're a worldwide institution.

I look forward to being an old geezer and still not being able to understand the generations below mine that have infected my generation and above with the amazing ability to not truly actually say what they mean to say by having everything be a comparison and then generalizations.

I mean, like, you know what I mean, like, and stuff like that?

I know, right?


***A pet peeve of mine, I can't stand the phrase 'I know, right'. Can't people just say 'I agree' ?

I know right

Or when someone starts a sentence with "and you know what?" and then continues to blabber on...why not just start the sentence in the first place without asking a question?

Aarrgghh....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Stoneage
University teachers here (Sweden) are complaining about the lack of basic language comprehension among students.

My humble theory is that young people are not polyglots they are hemiglots = at a very early age instead of being given solid basics in their own mother tongue they've also been exposed to a foreign language (usually English).

The result of this mix-up is they dabble in that foreign language (often nicely) but they have serious lacks in their own mother tongue. As if these young had to divide the mental space between "home" (their mother tongue) and the "guest" (the foreign language).

With the advance of computerized translation tools I expect the "expose them to English in the cradle" fad to fade in the near future.

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GasLightStreet

Quote
keefriff99

Quote
MadMax
riff99 wrote: "Hey, here's a new concept! A stodgy old person ranting about the younger generation. Never saw THAT Before"


Well I've yet to reach 40 so I ain't that old pal. Did I hit a weak spot with my humble contribution to this thread? Your name and your comment suggest you were born in 1999, if so I apologize if I offended you.

Mind, I wrote
"..generations GENERALLY are rather thick".

I wasn't thinking about you as I don't know you Sir.

No, no, I'm actually 39.

I just try really hard not to knock younger people, because so often it's just a case of not being able to understand generational differences. Think of what people said about the Stones in the '60s, and now they're a worldwide institution.

I look forward to being an old geezer and still not being able to understand the generations below mine that have infected my generation and above with the amazing ability to not truly actually say what they mean to say by having everything be a comparison and then generalizations.

I mean, like, you know what I mean, like, and stuff like that?

Absolutely, old boy
PS Are you my old English teacher?

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dcba

Quote
Stoneage
University teachers here (Sweden) are complaining about the lack of basic language comprehension among students.

My humble theory is that young people are not polyglots they are hemiglots = at a very early age instead of being given solid basics in their own mother tongue they've also been exposed to a foreign language (usually English).

The result of this mix-up is they dabble in that foreign language (often nicely) but they have serious lacks in their own mother tongue. As if these young had to divide the mental space between "home" (their mother tongue) and the "guest" (the foreign language).

With the advance of computerized translation tools I expect the "expose them to English in the cradle" fad to fade in the near future.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. In fact there are studies proving the opposite. Instead I think it has to do with a declining education system.
That is the modern paradox. People spend longer and longer time in the education system but tends to learn less and less.

Quote
mr_dja
From "The Big Bang Theory"

Amy: "'Thus swyved is the carpenter's wyfe;
And Absalon hath kist hir nether ye
And Nicholas is scalded in the towte
This tale is done, and God save al the rowte'"
Penny: "What the hell was that?"
Amy: "Bernadette dared me to tell a dirty story. The Miller's Tale by Chaucer is the dirtiest story I know. It would have been hidden in sock drawers if people in the 14 century had worn socks."

I love the Big Bang Theory but will just have to trust them that it's a dirty joke. I certainly can't claim to understand it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

[www.urbandictionary.com]

Still loving the ShAmy?

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Big Al
Often observed in public houses up and down the country :-

'Can I order two pints of Stella, please?' Arghh!

What’s wrong with that sentence?

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Koen

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Big Al
Often observed in public houses up and down the country :-

'Can I order two pints of Stella, please?' Arghh!

What’s wrong with that sentence?

The pub lives off orders. It goes without saying that customers are allowed to order?

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SomeTorontoGirl

Quote
mr_dja
From "The Big Bang Theory"

Amy: "'Thus swyved is the carpenter's wyfe;
And Absalon hath kist hir nether ye
And Nicholas is scalded in the towte
This tale is done, and God save al the rowte'"
Penny: "What the hell was that?"
Amy: "Bernadette dared me to tell a dirty story. The Miller's Tale by Chaucer is the dirtiest story I know. It would have been hidden in sock drawers if people in the 14 century had worn socks."

I love the Big Bang Theory but will just have to trust them that it's a dirty joke. I certainly can't claim to understand it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

[www.urbandictionary.com]

Still loving the ShAmy?

Always! I can't profess "love", but I'm even a fan of young Sheldon!

Peace,
Mr DJA

The initial post in this thread used the word "retarded" as part of the headline. I am not English spoken, but I do know enough about language and online manners that offending terms should be avoided.

Definition of retarded
sometimes offensive
: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development : characterized by mental retardation

[www.merriam-webster.com]

Rather than picking on others non-perfect spelling and way of writing, may be in order to distance own superiority, I woild advice anyone to show respect when talking on IORR. More important than exact and perfect spelling and English, is the low threshold of talking informal. Don't let the grammar police prevent you from expressing yourself. Also, remember most of us do not have English as our first language.May be 10% of all people speak English, most do not.

Bjornulf

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EddieByword
Who would have thought that the word C%*t was in common acceptable usage in England 200 years ago

Here in the States as well...

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DandelionPowderman

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Koen

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Big Al
Often observed in public houses up and down the country :-

'Can I order two pints of Stella, please?' Arghh!

What’s wrong with that sentence?

The pub lives off orders. It goes without saying that customers are allowed to order?

Sure, but it is not incorrect, just over polite.

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Koen

Quote
Big Al
Often observed in public houses up and down the country :-

'Can I order two pints of Stella, please?' Arghh!

What’s wrong with that sentence?

The pub lives off orders. It goes without saying that customers are allowed to order?

The correct (smart ass) response could be, "Well, yes you can!" or "Go ahead!" or "I don't know, can you?" and etc.

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Deltics
Thank goodness that the Stones could never be accused of using "retarded language".

"I can't get any satisfaction" wouldn't have the same punch, would it, so the Stones are right even when they're wrong!

It has always bothered me that Jagger doesn't sing, 'I can't get *any* Satisfaction.'

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Deltics
Thank goodness that the Stones could never be accused of using "retarded language".

Chuck is to blame for that

"I can't get no satisfaction from the judge"...

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman

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Koen

Quote
Big Al
Often observed in public houses up and down the country :-

'Can I order two pints of Stella, please?' Arghh!

What’s wrong with that sentence?

The pub lives off orders. It goes without saying that customers are allowed to order?

The correct (smart ass) response could be, "Well, yes you can!" or "Go ahead!" or "I don't know, can you?" and etc.

Well, the most daring smartass answer would be: "no!".

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mr_dja

Quote
ycagwywpmd
But worse still, I have heard parents of young kids say ( and read on Internet), why waste time teaching young kids to write nowadays? It's a skill they just ain't gonna need, going forward.....

Add educators to that list as well... I'm not sure what has come of it, but I can remember a school district in my area contemplating only teaching children to "print" and not "write" for just that reason. Between "PIN Numbers" and facial/fingerprint recognition technology a signature is turning into something that may eventually be remembered as "so old fashioned". Going to make it hard for autograph seekers.

Peace,
Mr DJA

My wife's son is very smart. A walking history class. But his "street smarts" hover around 2% - he's a millennial, thinks that stating on FaceBook that he will "stand with" is some kind of social revolutionary thing, is an anti-capitalist and his communication is assumptive.

For example, he'd say something about whatever from 1756 and I'd ask something about it, which then lead to a 5 minute history lesson - with one minor problem: He's start off, say in the middle, or end a sentence with, "You know", to which I'd respond "I don't know, that's why I asked." He would continue to say it and I'd give him the same response. He'd get pissy with me and would wonder if I really wanted to know. I would say "Just speak clearly and I won't interrupt your poor skills." His mom would give him grief as well.

The acronym abuse - isn't part of the idea behind the use of an acronym is to "save time"? Americans are always in a hurry yet are quite lazy. They'll say "Enter your PIN number" and I've learned to just keep quiet about it, although if the person is being a smart ass, I'll respond with "I only have one personal identification number, not two" and they get very confused. Then there are the debit/credit card readers and someone has put a sticky note or whatever that says "Enter PIN # Here".

There are other abuses of redundancy. On blue prints for a house I've seen it a gazillion times - hot water heater.

There's no such thing as a hot water heater.

Want-to-be authors asking about getting an ISBN number.

Yet, to this day, I've NEVER heard anyone say SUV vehicle. That just, like, blows my mind, and everything like that and stuff.

A lot of people are quietly saving that image, stonehearted.

gimmie shelter ....



ROCKMAN

One of my favorite redundancies: “With au jus sauce”.

GasLightStreet's reference to "You Know" got me thinking about something I was advised of at the University level decades ago...

MANY professors are known to start a lecture with the phrase "As you/we all know..." I was advised to question this any time I heard it so I could be clear as to exactly what the professor was assuming I already knew.

Different context to be sure, but the assumption of "you know" can pop up anywhere at any time. Best to make sure if you're on the receiving end that you know what the other person is assuming that "you know".

Peace,
Mr DJA