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LeonidP

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RipThisBone
video: [youtu.be]

Classic already and only 5 years ago.

... I've always loved it!

+1

Love this song!

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
Doom and Gloom might have been a good song had it not been overproduced imo - maybe a stripped down acoustic bluesy version.
As it stands though, it's generic crap.

The stripped down album version was much poorer, imo.

The drive was sucked out of it, somehow..

I was talking about a fictional stripped down acoustic bluesy version though which might have been better. I really wouldn't consider the official version stripped down...sounds phony and overproduced .
I remember when it was released someone referred to it as slick '80s's ZZ Top with drum machines, etc. (Legs, Sharp Dressed Man, etc., etc.) As for live versions, maybe a step above, but still sort of a generic Stones rocker.

The "official" version would be the single, which is not stripped down. Not at all

The GRRR-version is, though. All the extra drums and beats are peeled off.

It sounded like you had forgotten about the album version when you were talking about a fictional stripped down version.

It's not exactly noticeable but the single version is edited in some places that aren't on the "LP version". The single version, with the goofy drum treatment, at least has a presence of life to it. The "LP version" is a rather boring straight ahead - I mean, four on the floor AGAIN? It is "better" than Don't Stop, overall, but at least Don't Stop had a bridge and some actual guitaring going on.

When it came out I played both versions of Doom And Gloom for my wife and she liked the single version better. "The other one is boring", she said. "I like that other song better", which was Plundered My Soul.

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Wild Slivovitz

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LeonidP

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RipThisBone
video: [youtu.be]

Classic already and only 5 years ago.

... I've always loved it!

+1

Love this song!

I agree... no nit picking or micro scoping needed... it's only rock and roll.

I was delighted to see/hear it played live on the Zipper in 2015 and it/they kicked ass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-10 01:34 by Leonioid.

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman

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keefriff99

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DandelionPowderman

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KRiffhard

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GasLightStreet
A classic already? The song or the "video"? It's a long way off from being a classic.

Classic?!! A poor song...like Gotta Get a Grip/England Lost.

It's way better than those, imo, but not a classic.

Had they treated D&G like YGMR, it might have been closer to a classic, though.

You mean if they had played it in concert consistently over the years?

I think Doom and Gloom is a great latter-day rocker, but they didn't push it hard enough to make it a classic.

Yep.

I don't think Mick likes to sing it, though. Never once did he sing the chorus properly.

Yeah, it never really popped live...plus the drum beat had some studio trickery going on that Charlie didn't replicate and it hurt the groove.

I still think it's a damn fine studio track.

I disagree. "Doom and Gloom" sounds better live than in the studio. Some live versions,anyway. It sounds more smooth and less grating live. The Hyde Park versions and some of the last few versions that they played live just sound better to me than the studio versions.

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
Doom and Gloom might have been a good song had it not been overproduced imo - maybe a stripped down acoustic bluesy version.
As it stands though, it's generic crap.

The stripped down album version was much poorer, imo.

The drive was sucked out of it, somehow..

I was talking about a fictional stripped down acoustic bluesy version though which might have been better. I really wouldn't consider the official version stripped down...sounds phony and overproduced .
I remember when it was released someone referred to it as slick '80s's ZZ Top with drum machines, etc. (Legs, Sharp Dressed Man, etc., etc.) As for live versions, maybe a step above, but still sort of a generic Stones rocker.

The "official" version would be the single, which is not stripped down. Not at all

The GRRR-version is, though. All the extra drums and beats are peeled off.

It sounded like you had forgotten about the album version when you were talking about a fictional stripped down version.

No I hadn't forgotten, but just to clarify so we're on the same page (maybe my initial post wasn't clear?), I was talking about a fictional fantasy version that doesn't exist.
A stripped down acoustic bluesy version - emphasis on the acoustic and bluesy - maybe just Mick and Keith on acoustic guitars (or maybe just Keith)...maybe totally unplugged.
And maybe a gentle tambourine or a bongo from Charlie, or a few soft touches with brush sticks, or even just a few handclaps. Maybe even Keith on whispery vocals instead of shouting Mick.
As far as I know, no stripped down acoustic bluesy version exists with any of those scenarios, but if there was it might have been a good song. Or maybe it would have still been crap no matter how minimal it was.

PS - I had something like this in mind when writing original post:

Keith and Mick - Country Honk 2016 ( acoustic version )

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Winning Ugly VXII
"Doom and Gloom" sounds better live than in the studio. Some live versions,anyway. It sounds more smooth and less grating live.

I would agree - all live versions I saw were better than any studio version.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-10 03:39 by Hairball.

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
Doom and Gloom might have been a good song had it not been overproduced imo - maybe a stripped down acoustic bluesy version.
As it stands though, it's generic crap.

The stripped down album version was much poorer, imo.

The drive was sucked out of it, somehow..

I was talking about a fictional stripped down acoustic bluesy version though which might have been better. I really wouldn't consider the official version stripped down...sounds phony and overproduced .
I remember when it was released someone referred to it as slick '80s's ZZ Top with drum machines, etc. (Legs, Sharp Dressed Man, etc., etc.) As for live versions, maybe a step above, but still sort of a generic Stones rocker.

The "official" version would be the single, which is not stripped down. Not at all

The GRRR-version is, though. All the extra drums and beats are peeled off.

It sounded like you had forgotten about the album version when you were talking about a fictional stripped down version.

No I hadn't forgotten, but just to clarify so we're on the same page (maybe my initial post wasn't clear?), I was talking about a fictional fantasy version that doesn't exist.
A stripped down acoustic bluesy version - emphasis on the acoustic and bluesy - maybe just Mick and Keith on acoustic guitars (or maybe just Keith)...maybe totally unplugged.
And maybe a gentle tambourine or a bongo from Charlie, or a few soft touches with brush sticks, or even just a few handclaps. Maybe even Keith on whispery vocals instead of shouting Mick.
As far as I know, no stripped down acoustic bluesy version exists with any of those scenarios, but if there was it might have been a good song. Or maybe it would have still been crap no matter how minimal it was.

PS - I had something like this in mind when writing original post:

Keith and Mick - Country Honk 2016 ( acoustic version )

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Winning Ugly VXII
"Doom and Gloom" sounds better live than in the studio. Some live versions,anyway. It sounds more smooth and less grating live.

I would agree - all live versions I saw were better than any studio version.

I understand. Just thought it was surprising that you didn't mention the album version.

Mick's vocals were always better on the studio versions. The playing was fine live, imo.

My fave is da 4.04 Promo CD single version ....



ROCKMAN

My fave.

~original

Speaking of the live renditions, the one at Glastonbury was awesome. It sounded like they really meant it, and Jagger gave it all.

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Wild Slivovitz
Speaking of the live renditions, the one at Glastonbury was awesome. It sounded like they really meant it, and Jagger gave it all.

Funny they never released Glastonbury—

There's really not many Stones songs where I prefer the live version over the studio version - in fact I can hardly think of any. That said, Midnight Rambler is usually always great in a live setting, and might have to go with YaYas version if I had to choose (but I really like the studio version as well). But there's a few of these subpar latter day studio tunes I really don't like much at all that can only be helped when played live, and raises them to a higher level. Doom and Gloom and One More Shot come to mind...also Out of Control and You Got Me Rocking. Am I happy when these tunes hog up some of the setlist at a show I'm at? Hell no. But there's something about the roughness and rawness of a raggedy live performance that strips away the sterility that some of these tunes seem to suffer from on the studio versions. Some I could do without all together - Mixed Emotions at Desert Trip...wtf was that all about. Streets of Love and Infamy during ABB - boo hoo. Don't Stop during Licks - whatever.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
There's really not many Stones songs where I prefer the live version over the studio version - in fact I can hardly think of any. That said, Midnight Rambler is usually always great in a live setting, and might have to go with YaYas version if I had to choose (but I really like the studio version as well). But there's a few of these subpar latter day studio tunes I really don't like much at all that can only be helped when played live, and raises them to a higher level. Doom and Gloom and One More Shot come to mind...also Out of Control and You Got Me Rocking. Am I happy when these tunes hog up some of the setlist at a show I'm at? Hell no. But there's something about the roughness and rawness of a raggedy live performance that strips away the sterility that some of these tunes seem to suffer from on the studio versions. Some I could do without all together - Mixed Emotions at Desert Trip...wtf was that all about. Streets of Love and Infamy during ABB - boo hoo. Don't Stop during Licks - whatever.

That's interesting. I think the Stones are one of the few bands that are capable of transcending studio recordings with live renditions, or at least injecting so much new life into them live that they almost take on another life.

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keefriff99

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Hairball
There's really not many Stones songs where I prefer the live version over the studio version - in fact I can hardly think of any. That said, Midnight Rambler is usually always great in a live setting, and might have to go with YaYas version if I had to choose (but I really like the studio version as well). But there's a few of these subpar latter day studio tunes I really don't like much at all that can only be helped when played live, and raises them to a higher level. Doom and Gloom and One More Shot come to mind...also Out of Control and You Got Me Rocking. Am I happy when these tunes hog up some of the setlist at a show I'm at? Hell no. But there's something about the roughness and rawness of a raggedy live performance that strips away the sterility that some of these tunes seem to suffer from on the studio versions. Some I could do without all together - Mixed Emotions at Desert Trip...wtf was that all about. Streets of Love and Infamy during ABB - boo hoo. Don't Stop during Licks - whatever.

That's interesting. I think the Stones are one of the few bands that are capable of transcending studio recordings with live renditions, or at least injecting so much new life into them live that they almost take on another life.

Well of course they do take on another life and many of them are great on their own terms as live versions, but when you have tunes like Sympathy. Gimme Shelter, Happy, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc....
for me the studio versions are always superior no matter how great they may be live.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Out of curiosity keefrif99 - other than Midnight Rambler which is live, are there any live versions of songs on Hot Rocks you prefer or think are better than the original studio versions?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
Out of curiosity keefrif99 - other than Midnight Rambler which is live, are there any live versions of songs on Hot Rocks you prefer or think are better than the original studio versions?

YEAH! JJF from GIMME SHELTER and HTW from LYL! Under My Thumb from STILL LIFE is pretty damn good.



Oh wait. I'm not Keefriff99...

"Classic", "No Classic"... A bit tiresome talk to me. IMO Doom& Gloom is an EXCELLENT Stones rocker and that's enough to me.

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GasLightStreet

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Hairball
Out of curiosity keefrif99 - other than Midnight Rambler which is live, are there any live versions of songs on Hot Rocks you prefer or think are better than the original studio versions?

YEAH! JJF from GIMME SHELTER and HTW from LYL! Under My Thumb from STILL LIFE is pretty damn good.



Oh wait. I'm not Keefriff99...

Lol...well was curious no matter who answered, and there's really no right or wrong answer anyways.
But JJF from Gimme Shelter is better than the original studio version?!!!
Great version indeed, but have to go with the studio version. Same with HTW as well as Under My Thumb....studio versions are perfect...sacred imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The studio versions are awesome. But JJF from the documentary is excellent - I like the chorus better than the studio version - and the live version of Honky Tonk from LYL is supreme to the studio version with the intro, the choruses and the guitar solo especially. Hell, the 1981-82 versions of HTW are fantastic with Keith playing with the intro the way he did.

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Hairball
There's really not many Stones songs where I prefer the live version over the studio version - in fact I can hardly think of any. That said, Midnight Rambler is usually always great in a live setting, and might have to go with YaYas version if I had to choose (but I really like the studio version as well). But there's a few of these subpar latter day studio tunes I really don't like much at all that can only be helped when played live, and raises them to a higher level. Doom and Gloom and One More Shot come to mind...also Out of Control and You Got Me Rocking. Am I happy when these tunes hog up some of the setlist at a show I'm at? Hell no. But there's something about the roughness and rawness of a raggedy live performance that strips away the sterility that some of these tunes seem to suffer from on the studio versions. Some I could do without all together - Mixed Emotions at Desert Trip...wtf was that all about. Streets of Love and Infamy during ABB - boo hoo. Don't Stop during Licks - whatever.

What about these songs:

Carol
Route 66
Live With Me
Time Is On My Side
Let's Spend The Night Together
Under My Thumb
Down The Road Apiece
Imagination
When The Whip Comes Down
Shattered
Let Me Go
Slipping Away

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Hairball
Out of curiosity keefrif99 - other than Midnight Rambler which is live, are there any live versions of songs on Hot Rocks you prefer or think are better than the original studio versions?

Well, Midnight Rambler for sure is a song that I think morphed live into an almost completely different animal.

Street Fighting Man with Mick Taylor...again, love the studio version, it's genius, but it became something different with MT. Same with Sympathy from Ya Ya's.

Now that you made me think more about it...there aren't many songs where I flat-out prefer live versions aside from Rambler, but I think my original point is that the Stones in the '70s at least equaled their studio versions, or reinterpreted their songs live into something different.

I think JJF and Brown Sugar rocked out harder with a live audience...the tempos increased slightly due to the adrenaline of playing them live. JJF as a studio recording is pure brilliance and they've never equaled it live (the guitar layering, the REAL intro, Mick's laconic delivery), but it's also my favorite live rocker of theirs just because of the energy and the way Keith lays into the riff. Even though the original meaning of the song has gotten lost over the decades by just playing it as a straight rocker, it's still awesome every time I hear it, which is far from the case for other warhorses which got tired.

I'm probably also in the extreme minority that prefers live versions of Tumbling Dice from the '80s and '90s that are sped up a bit and have the extended outro with the full horn section. Again, love the Exile version but I think that's one song where the Vegas-ified version really took off, especially on the Voodoo Lounge and B2B tours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-10 23:39 by keefriff99.

The Philly '72 and Paradiso '95 versions of Gimme Shelter...I could almost rate them equal to the studio version. Not quite, but just a hair beneath.

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
There's really not many Stones songs where I prefer the live version over the studio version - in fact I can hardly think of any. That said, Midnight Rambler is usually always great in a live setting, and might have to go with YaYas version if I had to choose (but I really like the studio version as well). But there's a few of these subpar latter day studio tunes I really don't like much at all that can only be helped when played live, and raises them to a higher level. Doom and Gloom and One More Shot come to mind...also Out of Control and You Got Me Rocking. Am I happy when these tunes hog up some of the setlist at a show I'm at? Hell no. But there's something about the roughness and rawness of a raggedy live performance that strips away the sterility that some of these tunes seem to suffer from on the studio versions. Some I could do without all together - Mixed Emotions at Desert Trip...wtf was that all about. Streets of Love and Infamy during ABB - boo hoo. Don't Stop during Licks - whatever.

What about these songs:

Carol
Route 66
Live With Me
Time Is On My Side
Let's Spend The Night Together
Under My Thumb
Down The Road Apiece
Imagination
When The Whip Comes Down
Shattered
Let Me Go
Slipping Away

I prefer the studio versions on all of them - Slipping Away maybe being an exception but that's a part of the latter era.
And of all those that are covers (underlined) I prefer the original versions over the Stones covers - Time is On My Side being a possible exception of being a better cover.

And to be clear, I'm not saying any live versions are bad or worse (many are exceptional and differ greatly from the studio version) - just that I prefer the original iconic studio versions better.
And I know I'm not alone as there was a topic on this awhile ago - there were a few others who were on the same page, but to each their own...

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keefriff99
Now that you made me think more about it there aren't many songs where I flat-out prefer live versions aside from Rambler, but I think my original point is that the Stones in the '70s at least equaled their studio versions, or reinterpreted their songs live into something different.

Yes they reinterpreted some of those songs greatly into something different in a live setting, but equaling their studio versions would be a personal preference.
Many of them are outstanding no doubt, but I always fall back on the originals as the ultimate.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-11 01:02 by Hairball.

<I prefer the studio versions on all of them>

Good for you!

<I prefer the original versions over the Stones covers>

But the question was whether you preferred the Stones studio covers or the live versions, since you said there weren't any live versions you preferred over the studio takes.

Quite a lot of the songs performed on stage by the Stones in their prime were covers. It would be a bit weird to dismiss those songs by saying all the originals were better. That's almost like saying that the brilliant 1962-1969-Stones were unnecessary..

No version surpasses this one, imo:





[www.youtube.com]

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laertisflash
"Classic", "No Classic"... A bit tiresome talk to me. IMO Doom& Gloom is an EXCELLENT Stones rocker and that's enough to me.

Agreed

I hope we get more straight up Stones rockers like this on the new album!

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DandelionPowderman

<I prefer the studio versions on all of them>

Good for you!

<I prefer the original versions over the Stones covers>


But the question was whether you preferred the Stones studio covers or the live versions, since you said there weren't any live versions you preferred over the studio takes.

Quite a lot of the songs performed on stage by the Stones in their prime were covers. It would be a bit weird to dismiss those songs by saying all the originals were better. That's almost like saying that the brilliant 1962-1969-Stones were unnecessary..

I answered your question as clear as can be.

"I prefer the studio versions on all of them - Slipping Away maybe being an exception but that's a part of the latter era", and then I added that "I prefer all of the original versions over the Stones covers versions".

I wasn't "dismissing" any of the covers -don't know how you can come to that extreme conclusion? It's a simple matter of preference - I prefer their studio covers over the live versions - not dismissing any of them. The Stones played many great covers - yes that's a fact - but I prefer the original versions by the original artists (except maybe Time is on My Side as I mentioned above). Same with the Beatles - many great covers - but I prefer the originals by the original artists. Not dismissing any of them in any way as if they're inferior...maybe you're confusing "prefer" with "dislike"? Having a preference doesn't mean you have to dislike or dismiss the other. I like vanilla ice cream over chocolate ice cream, yet I still like the chocolate on occasion.


I also prefer all of their studio originals (except maybe Midnight Rambler as I mentioned above) over any live versions - this is not dismissing live versions as being inferior.

I don't know how many times I have to say say this, or in how many different ways for you to understand:


"Well of course they (live versions) do take on another life and many of them are great on their own terms as live versions, but when you have tunes like Sympathy. Gimme Shelter, Happy, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc....
for me the studio versions are always superior no matter how great they may be live."

"And to be clear, I'm not saying any live versions are bad or worse (many are exceptional and differ greatly from the studio version) - just that I prefer the original iconic studio versions better".

"Many of them are outstanding no doubt, but I always fall back on the originals as the ultimate".

"Yes they reinterpreted some of those songs greatly into something different in a live setting, but equaling their studio versions would be a personal preference.
Many of them are outstanding no doubt, but I always fall back on the originals as the ultimate".

You might disagree (which you obviously do), but don't understand why you have such an issue and feel the need to interrogate me over my personal preference - that is a bit weird to use your words.

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DandelionPowderman
No version surpasses this one, imo:





[www.youtube.com]

Good for you!
I respectfully disagree as I prefer the studio version (for a variety of reasons), but if that's your preference then so be it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-11 19:02 by Hairball.

I stress this because it's close to unbelievable for me. But I will move on from thinking you're being difficult to believing that you really find ALL the studio versions superior to every single of their attempts in concert.

Seemingly, you must be allergic to cover versions, though



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-12-11 19:05 by DandelionPowderman.

Looks like this thread has spiraled out of control.

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keefriff99
Looks like this thread has spiraled out of control.

Nice song, btw. Much better live

For what matters Keith in the recent OnAir podcast claims that live versions of almost all the early Rolling Stones songs are an upgrade of the studio versions because the latter were most of the times composed and recorded in a rush, with no time to let the song develop

C