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dcba

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Mathijs

from 1988 until about 1992 Guns were far bigger than the Stones.

Mathijs

Are you sure the 91-92 UYI tour sold more tickets than the SW/UJ tour? Are you sure G&R played bigger places and booked more shows than the Stones? I'm not too sure of this.
Take L.A. : the Stones sold out the Coliseum four times in 1989. G&R sold out the much smaller Forum four times too. 80000 x4 vs 17000 x 4.
Who's the winner?

Sure G&R got more press than the Stones but it wasn't exactly for musical reasons. It was more like "G&r axeman pisses in the aisle of a commercial flight" or "G&r singer punches David Bowie".

In all fairness, the ONLY reason The Stones sold out four nights at the Coliseum is BECAUSE of Guns N' Roses.



My ticket signed by Steven Adler.

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Rocky Dijon

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strat72

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Mathijs
And to contrary believe, Guns never opened for the Stones in LA 1989, they were on the same bill.

Mathijs

Nonsense...... They were Stones shows and GNR played first. Therefore they were the support act.

Living Colour opened, then GNR, then the Stones.

[www.pinterest.com]

I was at the show where Axl made his infamous rant on stage. Never have I ever heard that Guns'N'Roses were not openers until reading Mathijs' quote, and either someone is trying to rewrite history, or it's some sort of fantasy/myth invented over the years. It was promoted as a Rolling Stones show, it was the Rolling Stones Steel Wheels stage, and Guns'N'Roses were invited to open for them along with Living Colour. Every review and/or article I can find says they were the openers:

During the first of four dates opening for the Rolling Stones at the L.A. Coliseum, Axl aired some of his band's dirty laundry.

From wiki: "Opening acts for the tour included Living Colour, Dan Reed Network and Guns N' Roses".

And another which aside from mistakingly saying "L.A. Forum" instead of "L.A. Coliseum" at the beginning of article, an interesting read of how it all happened.
"Today we look back at the time Guns N’ Roses opened for their heroes, The Rolling Stones"

How Guns N’ Roses Came to Open for The Rolling Stones

And here's a review of the show from the L.A. Times, and while there is no direct mention of G'N'R being "opening" it's clear that they were.
And while the buildup leading up to the shows was exciting, clearly the Stones were far better...at least on this day.

1989: Still the Greatest: The Stones face off with Guns 'N Roses and emerge the champ


And finally, a pic of the show t-shirt - note the mention of "special guests" ie opening acts:

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Kurt
In all fairness, the ONLY reason The Stones sold out four nights at the Coliseum is BECAUSE of Guns N' Roses.

Perhaps this is true as Guns N' Roses being an L.A. band had millions of local fans, not to mention zillions of fans worldwide at this point.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-12 18:30 by Hairball.

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Kurt

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dcba

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Mathijs

from 1988 until about 1992 Guns were far bigger than the Stones.

Mathijs

Are you sure the 91-92 UYI tour sold more tickets than the SW/UJ tour? Are you sure G&R played bigger places and booked more shows than the Stones? I'm not too sure of this.
Take L.A. : the Stones sold out the Coliseum four times in 1989. G&R sold out the much smaller Forum four times too. 80000 x4 vs 17000 x 4.
Who's the winner?

Sure G&R got more press than the Stones but it wasn't exactly for musical reasons. It was more like "G&r axeman pisses in the aisle of a commercial flight" or "G&r singer punches David Bowie".

In all fairness, the ONLY reason The Stones sold out four nights at the Coliseum is BECAUSE of Guns N' Roses.



My ticket signed by Steven Adler.

Really? How The Stones managed to sell out five nights in London, six in New York, and nine in Tokyo without GNR as their support act is beyond me. Silly boy......

Nice ticket though, and shame Adler isn't their drummer now, alongside Izzy on guiter. As Izzy said though..... "They didn't want to split the cash".

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DandelionPowderman
GNR would have been better off with staying in arenas. They never had the format required to do the huge stadium show, and everything that comes along with that.

That's more a praise than criticism, though. I really wish I had caught their show in 1988 instead of in 1993. The show I went to was dead, totally burned out energy-wise.

However, money talks...

I agree that the Appetite tour was "the" tour. Best GNR lineup, and great album to promote.

But I think that they were still great in stadiums as well.

Saw them first time in Torino 1992, football stadium (70,000 capacity). The new LYI songs allowed them to perform a more varied set list. Great stage. Back then, GNR was one of the very few "young" bands to be able to compete with the huge tour productions of the old great bands still in the business.

True that one year later when I saw them in Modena, the format was not as fresh anymore, but it had been a never ending tour and the band's habits did not include early morning jogging sessions and organic foods ...

C

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strat72

Really? How The Stones managed to sell out five nights in London, six in New York, and nine in Tokyo without GNR as their support act is beyond me. Silly boy......

Nice ticket though, and shame Adler isn't their drummer now, alongside Izzy on guiter. As Izzy said though..... "They didn't want to split the cash".

Don't get me wrong...that Steel Wheels tour was a juggernaut!

I saw two of the Coliseum shows and still wish I had seen all four.

And, yes, the original AFD lineup including Izzy and Adler simply cannot be rivaled. It is a shame...

On topic: just came home from Gelsenkirchen. A pretty solid gig, just over 3 hours. Setlist back to 30 Songs. Axels' voice was fine, even some interaction with Slash. My personal (short) highlight was Duffs' spot, cool punk attitude. Sadly the roof in the arena was closed, causing some reverbs (even 1. FOS).

A review in german:

[www.derwesten.de]

Setlist:

[www.setlist.fm]

Next stop of my personal concert summer: Bodycount in Njimegen, tomorrow

£5 million for one gig, nice... Ok, I guess I understand now why they play so long...it's a great way to force promoters to pay more! (as a fan, I'd rather they trim some of those covers off!)

[www.blabbermouth.net]

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FrogSugar
£5 million for one gig, nice...

Who do they think they are...The Rolling Stones?!!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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FrogSugar
£5 million for one gig, nice... Ok, I guess I understand now why they play so long...it's a great way to force promoters to pay more! (as a fan, I'd rather they trim some of those covers off!)

[www.blabbermouth.net]

Is Dale "Opie" Skjerseth on tour with gnr? Pretty sure i saw him with the stones last friday. Must be a busy man

"Report: SLASH Agrees To Pay Estranged Wife Over $6.6 Million"
[www.blabbermouth.net]

So all in all... Play 3 stadium gigs, pay the ex-wife the ransom and you're free to start anew.
The untold word about the G&R reformation was that Axl was broke and Slash needed some fresh dough for his divorce.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-13 12:00 by dcba.

Estranged...my favourite Guns song!

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FrogSugar
£5 million for one gig, nice... Ok, I guess I understand now why they play so long...it's a great way to force promoters to pay more! (as a fan, I'd rather they trim some of those covers off!)

[www.blabbermouth.net]

Some years ago there was that "urban" Festival Rockavaria here in Munich. Well it still exists in a much smaller venue. It was a twin festival with "Rock im Revier". Here are some numbers what bands got paid for both Gigs.

Metallica 7,3 mio
Muse 3.1 mio
Incubus 1.1 Mio
Faith no More 800k
The hives 200k

Those are insane Numbers.

Wiwo

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dcba
"Report: SLASH Agrees To Pay Estranged Wife Over $6.6 Million"
[www.blabbermouth.net]

So all in all... Play 3 stadium gigs, pay the ex-wife the ransom and you're free to start anew.
The untold word about the G&R reformation was that Axl was broke and Slash needed some fresh dough for his divorce.

Not really free as he still has to pay about $140K a month in alimony and child support and 1.8% to his kids until 2036 according to the Blabbermouth article. But as long as he and Axl get along they can keep milking the greatest hits tour after tour so he should not be wanting for money.

Where did you get the rumour Axl was broke? Not saying it is not true but find it surprising as he has been constantly touring with the previous lineup of Guns for many years now and he was raking in the majority of the cash as they were his employees not equal partners



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-14 00:03 by oldschool.

Well their last performance in Berlin few days ago, for me was embarrassing...Axl’s voice so weak...after that, I think I would not complain anymore about RS set list.

Fun collaboration between Foo Fighters and G n' R:

[www.youtube.com]

I can't believe how gassed Axl sounds...night and day between this and when I saw them last October. He needs to recharge.

"Only the Best for Axl Rose(‘s Sh!ts)"

[www.metalsucks.net]

I was happy to see them in 1992 and drove 3 hours to buy UYI on their release date but I'd need to be paid to go see them these days. A complete travesty and parody of what they once were. Axl and Slash are horible to look at and Axl sounds horrible. They have no shame (Axl said Slash was a "cancer" at one point right?) and THEY are only really doing it for the money, to the point where they couldn't even give the guy who wrote their best music (and gave them a carreer) a spot!

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
they couldn't even give the guy who wrote their best music (and gave them a carreer) a spot!

Imho Axl and Slash both hate Izzy Stradlin.
Axl has always been jealous of Izzy's coolness and determination. As soon as he graduated from school Izzy split from Indiana and headed to L.A. where he immediately blended in the musical scene.
Axl followed path, went to L.A. and... stuck to Izzy like a parasite.

Slash hated Izzy, wanted him out of the band as soon as G&R was formed. His idea was G&R was to be a "Led Zep like" band = a band with a single guitarist.
Slash also held a grudge for the way Stradlin beheaved during the UYI sessions : he rarely came into the studio, recorded his parts in one take, and sent riff ideas by mail on cassettes.
Stradlin was trying to stay away from the temptation of drug relapse. He also was probably foreseeing that after the firing of Adler the true G&R band was dead.

Didn't know that about their beginnings in LA, interestingly Axl couldn't stop ridiculing Izzy because he wanted to go back to Indiana after they hit pay dirt, "imagine, his ambition is to back to friggin' Indianapolis"...without Izzy where would they be ? On the other hand it has to be said that apart from a couple of ideas on JuJu Hounds, Izzy hasn't been able to come with a single song of interest since he left the band, so strange !

Anyway these guys have become a complete joke on so many levels that I'm at a loss as to how they've been able to walk all the way to the bank for the past two years, goes to show the average "level" of the audiences that fill up stadiums ;-)

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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gotdablouse
Didn't know that about their beginnings in LA, interestingly Axl couldn't stop ridiculing Izzy because he wanted to go back to Indiana after they hit pay dirt, "imagine, his ambition is to back to friggin' Indianapolis"...without Izzy where would they be ? On the other hand it has to be said that apart from a couple of ideas on JuJu Hounds, Izzy hasn't been able to come with a single song of interest since he left the band, so strange !

Anyway these guys have become a complete joke on so many levels that I'm at a loss as to how they've been able to walk all the way to the bank for the past two years, goes to show the average "level" of the audiences that fill up stadiums ;-)

saw them in 2016. they were awesome

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dcba

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gotdablouse
they couldn't even give the guy who wrote their best music (and gave them a carreer) a spot!

Imho Axl and Slash both hate Izzy Stradlin.
Axl has always been jealous of Izzy's coolness and determination. As soon as he graduated from school Izzy split from Indiana and headed to L.A. where he immediately blended in the musical scene.
Axl followed path, went to L.A. and... stuck to Izzy like a parasite.

Slash hated Izzy, wanted him out of the band as soon as G&R was formed. His idea was G&R was to be a "Led Zep like" band = a band with a single guitarist.
Slash also held a grudge for the way Stradlin beheaved during the UYI sessions : he rarely came into the studio, recorded his parts in one take, and sent riff ideas by mail on cassettes.
Stradlin was trying to stay away from the temptation of drug relapse. He also was probably foreseeing that after the firing of Adler the true G&R band was dead.

axl was the singer for l.a. guns for a bit. was izzy also is l.a. guns and I missed it?

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dcba

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gotdablouse
they couldn't even give the guy who wrote their best music (and gave them a carreer) a spot!

Imho Axl and Slash both hate Izzy Stradlin.
Axl has always been jealous of Izzy's coolness and determination. As soon as he graduated from school Izzy split from Indiana and headed to L.A. where he immediately blended in the musical scene.
Axl followed path, went to L.A. and... stuck to Izzy like a parasite.

Slash hated Izzy, wanted him out of the band as soon as G&R was formed. His idea was G&R was to be a "Led Zep like" band = a band with a single guitarist.
Slash also held a grudge for the way Stradlin beheaved during the UYI sessions : he rarely came into the studio, recorded his parts in one take, and sent riff ideas by mail on cassettes.
Stradlin was trying to stay away from the temptation of drug relapse. He also was probably foreseeing that after the firing of Adler the true G&R band was dead.

Well, Axl formed the band with Tracii, not Izzy?

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gotdablouse
Didn't know that about their beginnings in LA, interestingly Axl couldn't stop ridiculing Izzy because he wanted to go back to Indiana after they hit pay dirt, "imagine, his ambition is to back to friggin' Indianapolis"...without Izzy where would they be ? On the other hand it has to be said that apart from a couple of ideas on JuJu Hounds, Izzy hasn't been able to come with a single song of interest since he left the band, so strange !

Anyway these guys have become a complete joke on so many levels that I'm at a loss as to how they've been able to walk all the way to the bank for the past two years, goes to show the average "level" of the audiences that fill up stadiums ;-)

That's an arrogant thing to say. I went to see them last year because I wanted to cross them off my list having been too young to see them in 1992-'93. I wasn't hoodwinked...I knew exactly what version of the band I was getting. They sounded great and delivered for over 3 hours.

Axl sounds terrible so far this year... I think the constant touring has blown out his voice.

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gotdablouse
I was happy to see them in 1992 and drove 3 hours to buy UYI on their release date but I'd need to be paid to go see them these days. A complete travesty and parody of what they once were. Axl and Slash are horible to look at and Axl sounds horrible. They have no shame (Axl said Slash was a "cancer" at one point right?) and THEY are only really doing it for the money, to the point where they couldn't even give the guy who wrote their best music (and gave them a carreer) a spot!

The Izzy absence is completely true. Its wrong and has tainted the whole thing to me. The roadblock was Axl and Slash. Once you got past that everything else should have been easy and fall into place. Obviously Izzy, and either Steven and Matt or just Matt. Its so simple. BS on no one cared about them but cared about these other 3. No one cares about Duff yet there's some argument people do and couldn't do it without him. You pay Izzy what you pay Duff, easily, and thats apparently what the friction was. I get why Axl and Slash would get more. I'd prefer they didn't, but I'd think Izzy would have gone for same pay as Duff. I love Duff but Axl and Slash is all anyone cares about period.

I take issue with Axl sounding bad. He may now, but he sounded pretty good at the beginning of this tour. Better than he had in years and probably the best we can ask for these days. I also slightly issue with just for the money. A lot of it is, no question, and the prices are insane. BUT, and its a small but, they are giving a three hour show and trying things they don't have to. I do think its far too many covers and Chinese songs, but they don't have to do them so its not only phoning it in. They could play an hour and a half of hits and don't so I have to give them credit for that.

Axl and Slash do not hate Izzy I think. Axl certainly doesn't, he @#$%& loves him. The ONLY thing Izzy has done in the last 20 years is sometimes guest with Axl's fake band, so I think Izzy still really likes him too. Which is why its even more baffling the way the tour was handled. Axl respects him or did for years yet then screws him over. Insane. There was the rumor that Izzy wouldn't commit to a tour but I think thats BS. If you paid him I think he'd give 100%. Slash also doesn't hate him either. He may never have loved him, but Izzy played on his solo album. There was ZERO reason Slash had to do that and at least shows they have a mutual respect for each other. As for Izzy's albums, yes he never really did anything of note after Guns. Some good stuff, the albums are fine, but its kinda like Keith and Mick. Its missing the other elements. Izzy knew how to lay down a riff and a base and thats EXACTLY what his albums are. But you need the other guys (Axl and Slash) to make it what is the stuff of legend. They all did. All their solo stuff is missing the other guys, and its sad we missed so many years and that they clearly have no intention of creating anything else now that they are back together.

Duff has had a much higher profile than Izzy...he was in Velvet Revolver with Slash, he made headlines getting a college degree, then became an op-ed columnist and something of a financial whiz, and he's a great interviewee who's always been media-savvy...so even though he's "just" the bassist and Izzy obviously contributed far more, Duff's public persona made his inclusion much more necessary to lend legitimacy to the wider public.

I'm obviously not talking about die-hard G n'R fans who love Izzy, but the casual ticket-buyers who just want to know it's a "reunion".

In all honesty, they might have had just as much success had just Axl and Slash reunited.

As soon as I heard Izzy and Adler were not involved I knew this comeback was 95% about cash, and that's when I decided to give it a miss. When a band does a tour for mostly nothing more than money, it's not gonna go well, and judging by the comments from people I know who went to both Berlin and Donnington, it's a tragic parody of what was once a good band.

Shame......

I truly think they would have. I get Duff's appeal, and being able to say 3 key members is better than two, and Duff is recognizable with the long hair and stuff (and as my friend said who became a fan during UYI "the band to me has always been Axl, Slash and Duff. That was who was on that tour."). Although there's a hilarious video where it was a guy asking people in the parking lot who the 3 people are and NO ONE knew Duff. The reunion would have been FINE without Axl and Slash and I truly don't think 80% of the general public know or care who Duff is. They want those two and thats it. But like you say, it lends more legitimacy, I think even moreso to hardcores than casuals. Casuals are going as long as Slash is there.

For Duff's presence and work over the years, and for bringing this reunion even to the table and setting it up, he deserves that money. I think, for the music they are playing and living off of every night mostly written by Izzy, Izzy deserves the same. They do different things but have both contributed massively in that second tier under Axl and Slash. You pay Izzy what you pay Duff or you do what Izzy did and say piss off, at least IMO. People then argue Izzy only wants money. Well yeah, but the reason he's not there is because Axl and Slash wouldn't accept LESS! Izzy deserves fair compensation for the music they are playing every night even though I will agree and wouldn't argue for a second anyone can do his job and most people don't care.

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strat72
As soon as I heard Izzy and Adler were not involved I knew this comeback was 95% about cash, and that's when I decided to give it a miss. When a band does a tour for mostly nothing more than money, it's not gonna go well, and judging by the comments from people I know who went to both Berlin and Donnington, it's a tragic parody of what was once a good band.

Shame......

Yes, and until this current lineup releases an album of new original material, seems obvious they're only in it for the money. Axl's Chinese Democracy is now 10 years old, and I bet Slash and Duff feel foolish playing those songs. Same can be said for the new versions of the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, but at least those two bands are talking about the possibility of new material. As far as I know, Guns'N'Roses haven't talked about any of that (?), though the rumour is Axl/DC will be recording a new album. And "Steely Dan"...will there ever be a new album under that name? Same can be said for the Stones now that I think of it, but at least they're talking about it also. 13 years and counting without an original album, and currently touring songs that are decades old...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-19 03:29 by Hairball.

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RollingFreak
I truly think they would have. I get Duff's appeal, and being able to say 3 key members is better than two, and Duff is recognizable with the long hair and stuff (and as my friend said who became a fan during UYI "the band to me has always been Axl, Slash and Duff. That was who was on that tour."). Although there's a hilarious video where it was a guy asking people in the parking lot who the 3 people are and NO ONE knew Duff. The reunion would have been FINE without Axl and Slash and I truly don't think 80% of the general public know or care who Duff is. They want those two and thats it. But like you say, it lends more legitimacy, I think even moreso to hardcores than casuals. Casuals are going as long as Slash is there.

For Duff's presence and work over the years, and for bringing this reunion even to the table and setting it up, he deserves that money. I think, for the music they are playing and living off of every night mostly written by Izzy, Izzy deserves the same. They do different things but have both contributed massively in that second tier under Axl and Slash. You pay Izzy what you pay Duff or you do what Izzy did and say piss off, at least IMO. People then argue Izzy only wants money. Well yeah, but the reason he's not there is because Axl and Slash wouldn't accept LESS! Izzy deserves fair compensation for the music they are playing every night even though I will agree and wouldn't argue for a second anyone can do his job and most people don't care.

I will go one further and say all you need for a reunion is Axl and the hat. That hat is selling most of the tickets.

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Dan

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RollingFreak
I truly think they would have. I get Duff's appeal, and being able to say 3 key members is better than two, and Duff is recognizable with the long hair and stuff (and as my friend said who became a fan during UYI "the band to me has always been Axl, Slash and Duff. That was who was on that tour."). Although there's a hilarious video where it was a guy asking people in the parking lot who the 3 people are and NO ONE knew Duff. The reunion would have been FINE without Axl and Slash and I truly don't think 80% of the general public know or care who Duff is. They want those two and thats it. But like you say, it lends more legitimacy, I think even moreso to hardcores than casuals. Casuals are going as long as Slash is there.

For Duff's presence and work over the years, and for bringing this reunion even to the table and setting it up, he deserves that money. I think, for the music they are playing and living off of every night mostly written by Izzy, Izzy deserves the same. They do different things but have both contributed massively in that second tier under Axl and Slash. You pay Izzy what you pay Duff or you do what Izzy did and say piss off, at least IMO. People then argue Izzy only wants money. Well yeah, but the reason he's not there is because Axl and Slash wouldn't accept LESS! Izzy deserves fair compensation for the music they are playing every night even though I will agree and wouldn't argue for a second anyone can do his job and most people don't care.

I will go one further and say all you need for a reunion is Axl and the hat. That hat is selling most of the tickets.

>< Good call, you're honestly not wrong.