And what are your bootom five Stones albums, Edward?

Mine are VL, Aftermath, IORR, TY and ABB, (though I very much like some tracks from from ABB and would not be without two or three reacks from each of the others).

Bridges To Babylon, Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and Dirty Work are my bottom 5 although in some ways i prefer both Undercover and Dirty Work - at least they possess a shot of vitality and exciting guitar interplay. The sketchy underdeveloped songs make those albums lose out for me. With Steel Wheels and Bridges To Babylon it's the production which i find hard to swallow and with Voodoo Lounge it's much the same reasons as A Bigger Bang.

Yes, I find strong parallels between ABB and VL, But I think the former has some stronger songs and more of them, (about 5-6, compared with 3-4!).

Funny thing is, people often cite DW as bad cos of loud drums - but ABB is more guilty. And they will criticise SW because of smooth production - and ABB is far more guilty of that.

In the sixties they had sixties-production sounds. In the Seventies they had seventies they had seventies-production sounds. Likewise Eighties. It was still the Stones.

But in Nineties and noughties - well its still the Stones in a way (but without the important Wyman dynamic) - and I can't say that they've got a certain modern sound - except on some of the Babylon numbers, esp Dust Brothers, which I like.
Loved Juiced.

Ok, I was wrong about the album. On first hearing it I complained that the difference between it and Bridges To Babbleon was that between dog shit and human shit. People, I was wrong ...

A Bigger Bang is ...


... just ...


S.H.I.T.

getting better and better. the melodies and licks are sticking in my head on many songs...far better than anything since Tattoo You, although I still like VL very much.

I think it gets better with more listens. I liked it pretty much when I first heard it but I also start to notice things in songs and they really start to grow on me with repeated listenes


Edward Twining,
"Bridges To Babylon, Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and Dirty Work are my bottom 5"

Sounds like you are living in the past... Things change with time, do you want the Stones to always sound the same and not evolve. Its not the 1970's anymore.

You have to compare albums within the frame of time they were created. I.e. the English football-team of 66 wouldn't have made it in the Conference League today. If Exile was released today, it would have been slaughtered by some critics. For me ABB is the very best Rolling Stones album of all time.

Rubbish!

The 1966 team was far better than today's rabble!

ABB is a very good Mick Jagger Band album.

Apparently alot of people around the world like the Mick Jagger band.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

It's not bad. But I preferred the Rolling Stones myself.

Yes.

I don't think it's anything to do with living in the past why i don't like the post Tattoo You albums so much it's more a lack of substance. There's the odd nice guitar riff here and the occasional nice melody there but these albums really don't add up to much that will be remembered over a longer period.
Production values don't help either also on a number of these albums. Most of these albums sound quite good initially but begin to wear thin after a short while.
Four Stone Walls i disagree with your view on Aftermath and Tattoo You being in the bottom five as i think at least half of each of these albums consist of classic Stones. On the other hand i agree that It's Only Rock 'N' Roll is a poor album saved by a few inspired Taylor moments and the odd half decent song. I definitely think the term 'cliche' could be used for many of these songs. It's for me the first time in their career that term deservedly applied.

Edward, I think you'll eventually have that top down and ABB blaring, don't give up man! Just breath in deep, let the ABB flow into your veins, It's Only Rock 'n' Roll but you'll like it! We'll be waiting for you

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-09-17 14:00 by RankOutsider.

In some ways the guitars are week on ABB, and the band interplay is inconsistent compared to, say, the piano/guitar combinations of Live with me.

But Jagger (it is really a Jagger album) made the best of his team mates and opened spaces in which they could display in simple and sober ways their trademark styles.

On Voodoo Lounge and ABB, the Stones crafted their own art in ways unseen before and to me, Let me down slow is an improvement of the country rock of Dead Flowers. Rough Justice updates all sorts of 'If you can't rock me's', Driving too fast is simply a Stones paradigmatic classic. What they loose in sheer guitar power is regained in balance, mature styling.

Apart from Dangerous beauty which is a song that would have needed to be played much more intensely to take off, and on which one hears how Jagger struggles to compensate for the lack of intensity of the guitars, and apart the guitar part on Streets of Love, I really love all of ABB.
It is a sober album, very well crafted, with great songs.

I love the album, but had identified Driving Too Fast as a song that was OK, but didn't really do much for me (there are two others, Dangerous Beauty and It Won't Be Long).

Then I decided to play the album using the Shuffle function on my iPod. In the second position, right after Rough Justice, Driving Too Fast actually sounded pretty good!

Nikolai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I was wrong about the album. On first hearing
> it I complained that the difference between it and
> Bridges To Babbleon was that between dog shit and
> human shit. People, I was wrong ...
>

Of course we're only left to wonder how sensitive your palate must be that you can tell the difference between dog and human shit.
You must have eaten a lot of both to know.

s-asla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to compare albums within the frame of
> time they were created. I.e. the English
> football-team of 66 wouldn't have made it in the
> Conference League today. If Exile was released
> today, it would have been slaughtered by some
> critics. For me ABB is the very best Rolling
> Stones album of all time.
>
>


Logic problem: First you say you have to compare albums within the frame of time they were created ( (I guess that's supposed to mean that you shouldn't compare an album made 30 years ago with one made today). And then you say: "For me ABB is the very best Rolling Stones album of all time." Didn't you just contradict your own advice, about comparing albums made in different time frames?

I think ABB's a fine album by the way.

hey mr.twining take a cup of tee and calm down.you sounds so negative,especially against jagger.this is the best album since tattoo you.

harlem shuffle,

It really isn't the best since TY. Undercover had stronger guitars and better all-round balance between instruments. Most tracks had their pace and tempo set by guitars.

Ditto DW. Double ditto SW. The tracks with stronger guitars on ABB are the weakest compositionally and the strongest songs on ABB have, generally speaking, the weakest guitars.

I agree with you Four Stone Walls. Undercover and Dirty Work both represent the Stones better as a group effort although there were sqabbles at the time - there's vitality in the playing and more guitar interplay. That's also true of Steel Wheels although i'll always have a dislike for the album's sterile sound.
I do believe the songs are more fully formed on A Bigger Bang despite this and if this was to be the Stones last album it would on balance be a more satisfying exit than those previously mentioned albums.

I think ABB is holding up fine..

Comments relative to postings here...
1. Comparing it to other records...not relavant...I listen to different Stones albums at different times based on what mood I am in...they all have a different flavor to them. To compare them is fruitless...

2. Quality and length...as a comparison I've found the last two U2 CD's to be interesting in the beginning and then they fade into oblivion...this seems to happen in this day and age or 50-60 minute CD's. They turn into the equivalent of blah, blah, blah...not so with ABB. Just as I have mellowed out with "The Place is Empty" they come back and kick me in the balls with "Oh No Not You Again"...then it is up a running again all the way to Infamy.

3. Hearing new things at every listen. I still hear new things when I listen to Exile. The same thing is happening with ABB. I listened to most of it again today and heard riffs and notes I hadn't noticed before. Every listen seems to reveal new things.

4. Critical comments - Look What the Cat Dragged In is a remake of "Undercover of the Night". Same drums, similar music. I love Rough Justice, ONNYA and "Laugh, I THough I Died". The last starts out as a "Mick" ballad and turns out to be much more than that. I like Dangerous Beauty.

5. The show - absolutely fantastic. I saw the 2nd Fenway show and had tickets for Rentschler Field in East Hartford. For the first time ever (after 13 shows) I felt like I was going to see a "routine" show. A repeat of "war horses", nothing new to expect. Instead they blew me away. Changed the set up and cranked all night. Crisp guitar sound...even the mistakes add to the show...they show me they are still a "working" band...most importantly, smiles and fun on stage...they enjoy what they are doing. And I get to see it at least two more times....6th row in Pittsburgh and 2rd row in Boston...I don't no how much you had to pay for the tickets but I didn't pay much...

So far I only had a chance to listen to it 5 times and the only song that stands out is RJ, what a great song!!! They should have left it with that song?

Four Stone Walls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mine are VL, Aftermath, IORR, TY and ABB, (though
> I very much like some tracks from from ABB and
> would not be without two or three reacks from each
> of the others).

How can any Stones fan worth his salt put 'Aftermath' in his bottom five ? Try TOP five and you'll have it right. That album is one of the time-capsule, epitome classics of Swingin' London in the '60's.

Also, in answer to the original thread question...yes, not only is the album holding up, it's improving with each listening. And that makes it the first Stones album since 'Tattoo You' that I can say that about.

i also think ABB is improving with each listening (and I liked it from the very beginning!)! It may not be something new, ventouros, innovative, but a couple of great rock songs (RJ, IWTL, SSMC, ONNYA, LIND, SNC, DTF etc.) in stones qualitity! Its exactly the kind of music I love so its great with me! And by the way: i think you can´t expect more, considering the circumstances!

So I'd like to point out a few things. Just for ya'll to think about.

1.- Show me a text from a Stones song that goes deeper than Blinded By Rainbows or Dangerous Beauty. I know they exist, but the majority of texts from 89 to 05 is deeper than the ones from the earlier years. You wouldn't say that Silvertrain or Live With Me goes deeper than Dangerous Beauty would you??? (And yes I do know that I Got The Blues goes deeper than the new stuff). As a whole the texts goes deeper today.

2.- Yes the guitars were more together with Taylor. But remember what Keith said: With Ronnie it's more the original idea of the Stones. The guitars float together (Sum up: The ancient art of weaving). That's much more Stones IMHO. And there's no denying it. That's why I like the Stones (Or more precise: This particualr version of the Stones) better. It's more Stonesy than it was with Taylor. If you don't see that, maybe you never actually got the original idea of the Stones???

3.- Don't you think that you just got tired of the Stones at some point? Their way of playing I mean. If they played like they did in 72 today, and played like they do now back in 1972, wouldn't you think that you'd dislike the Taylor sound???

Think about it please. Imagine you stood and looked at yourself and ask yourself these questions.

JumpingKentFlash

You don,t get it the stones GROOVED with Taylor - Go back and listen to the
boots.

I have 'em. Better today. There's more swing to it now. Way better. I get it. I can hear the groove with Taylor. Still better today mate.

JumpingKentFlash

First of all there is less swing today because Bill Wyman is gone which has nothing to do with the guitars.

Bitch with Taylor Grooved the best they cant even play the song today live
it sounds terrible with the horn riffs carrying the song.There are so many more
examples to go back and forth with but I dont got the time.

Then don't go to the show and keep living in the past. And I tell ya': IT SWINGS MORE TODAY BECAUSE OF DARYLL JONES. Forget about bloody Bill "I @#$%& 1100000 women in an hour" Wyman.

And it grooves better today. I can see why you say it was better back then, but the sound today is obviously more Stones.


I just knew I would get my head unscrewed for that post.

JumpingKentFlash