Tell Me :
Talk
Exactly and perhaps the guitars. I love the iorr album but they really miscalculated by following a short lived trend in sounds.
A producer has the "vision" for what they want the music to sound like, the engineer has to make it happen. Al Schmitt, the producer of Bob Dylan's last two albums had some interesting anecdotes about the recording techniques used with Dylan.
Interview with Al Schmitt and tour of Capitol Studios
It's not so much the following of trends, they just fvcked up in the mastering process. They wanted to squeeze too much information on two sides of vinyl, they squeezed all the life out of it. The available outtakes of Dance LS and If You Can't Rock me sound fantastic.
Mathijs
+1
But "Some Girls" still has the best drum sound, IMO.
They sound fantastic and I love those two songs dearly, always have no matter what, but I still think they could have gained recognition from the critics or at least fans through better sound on both guitars on IYCRM and Taylors on DLS.
Spot On!
Have you ears checked, buddy... the album you refer to as their worst sounds crystal clear, very crisp with very good seperation of each instrument. Jagger´s voice is captured better than on most albums.
But then I also think Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge and B2B are all well-produced, which puts me in the minority. The knock is that they're TOO well produced, but I'm a fan of crisp production. It wouldn't have suited the early '70s Stones, but times change.
Usual bunk. SOME GIRLS sounds better than THE WORST ROLLING STONES ALBUM EVER. "Bright, crisp and clear" does not always mean good or great - and in this case, the worst ever, it would've been much better if it had the haze of their 1970s LPs.
Part of the problem with this question is "engineered". Their late 1960s/early 1970s LPs are engineered fantastically, especially SF and EOMS considering what it took to produce them.
UNDERCOVER is engineered fantastically.
BLACK AND BLUE may be their most simple engineered LP, or at least as simple as their pre-TSMR albums.
TATTOO YOU qualifies as a fantastic engineered album due to the overall work involved.
Engineering is not producing nor is it mixing/sound of, which is what I was thinking was in question. Engineering is the work it took to get the sounds.
I simply said that Dirty Work has "fairly good" production. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but in no way do I think it's terrible.
You said "Dirty Work indeed has fairly good production" and that it's ""Bright, crisp and clear". It's cookie cutter production. A 10 year old could've "produced" that excuse of a turd.
And - just to be clear - as you can see, I did not say you slagged SOME GIRLS. I said SG sounds better than DW - and that's saying something considering how bad SG sounds.
No.
It's still below par by Stones standards, but the engineering is the least of its problems.
So now the conventional "wisdom" around here is that SOME GIRLS, of all albums, has a shitty sound? Where the @#$%& did that come from?
Yes. SOME GIRLS sounds awful. Really. For some reason your confusing sales with sound quality.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 7, 2017 01:16
Good points, Rambler.
I think Short And Curlies, TWFNO, Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend sound good on IORR.
Might be that the three first songs are clouding my impression of the album as a whole. The drum sound on IYCRM is really bad, and ATPTB sounds like any use of natural reverb was prohibited. IORR is, well, IORR. Love it as it is, but it is pretty bad
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-07 01:16 by DandelionPowderman.
I think Short And Curlies, TWFNO, Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend sound good on IORR.
Might be that the three first songs are clouding my impression of the album as a whole. The drum sound on IYCRM is really bad, and ATPTB sounds like any use of natural reverb was prohibited. IORR is, well, IORR. Love it as it is, but it is pretty bad
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-07 01:16 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: June 7, 2017 01:44
BEST ENGINEERED: Tattoo You
WORST ENGINEERED: A Bigger Bang
WORST ENGINEERED: A Bigger Bang
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Toru A
()
Date: June 7, 2017 02:02
But
the sound will vary depending on vinyl pressing technology.
Try Indian Gramophones
[www.giginjapan.com]
[www.discogs.com]
the sound will vary depending on vinyl pressing technology.
Try Indian Gramophones
[www.giginjapan.com]
[www.discogs.com]
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: June 7, 2017 02:22
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Good points, Rambler.
I think Short And Curlies, TWFNO, Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend sound good on IORR.
Might be that the three first songs are clouding my impression of the album as a whole. The drum sound on IYCRM is really bad, and ATPTB sounds like any use of natural reverb was prohibited. IORR is, well, IORR. Love it as it is, but it is pretty bad
Exactly and perhaps the guitars. I love the iorr album but they really miscalculated by following a short lived trend in sounds.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
slew
()
Date: June 7, 2017 02:43
Black and Blue sounds incredible. I think ER sound good as well. The ones I struggle with are IORR and GHS. GHS is one of my favorite albums but it could have been better if it was recorded better.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
dmay
()
Date: June 7, 2017 02:55
Please excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what is the difference between a producer on an album and the engineer? I would think the engineer follows the directions of the producer as to the sound/feel/style of the album in terms of what he/she - the engineer - is to do if mixing the tracks on an album is their primary function. What other functions does an album engineer do?
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: June 7, 2017 02:58
I think you're right, the line is blurred somewhat. Likewise, we're not able to separate recording engineer from mixing engineer. In the end, I think most of us are talking about the "overall sound" of the album.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
roller99
()
Date: June 7, 2017 05:04
Quote
dmay
Please excuse my lack of knowledge here, but what is the difference between a producer on an album and the engineer? I would think the engineer follows the directions of the producer as to the sound/feel/style of the album in terms of what he/she - the engineer - is to do if mixing the tracks on an album is their primary function. What other functions does an album engineer do?
A producer has the "vision" for what they want the music to sound like, the engineer has to make it happen. Al Schmitt, the producer of Bob Dylan's last two albums had some interesting anecdotes about the recording techniques used with Dylan.
Interview with Al Schmitt and tour of Capitol Studios
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 7, 2017 06:46
Rick Rubin, for instance, has never touched a mixing desk. He's rarely present during recording sessions. He turns up now and then with ideas and instructions.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: June 7, 2017 08:34
Quote
Rocky Dijon
BEST ENGINEERED: Tattoo You
WORST ENGINEERED: A Bigger Bang
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
thomashanck
()
Date: June 7, 2017 10:45
though not really a Stones-Album --- i like ronnies gimme some neck-sound,
some may say it's too fat but seven days for example got me at first sight,
or f.u.c me
some may say it's too fat but seven days for example got me at first sight,
or f.u.c me
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: June 7, 2017 12:14
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
DandelionPowderman
Good points, Rambler.
I think Short And Curlies, TWFNO, Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend sound good on IORR.
Might be that the three first songs are clouding my impression of the album as a whole. The drum sound on IYCRM is really bad, and ATPTB sounds like any use of natural reverb was prohibited. IORR is, well, IORR. Love it as it is, but it is pretty bad
Exactly and perhaps the guitars. I love the iorr album but they really miscalculated by following a short lived trend in sounds.
It's not so much the following of trends, they just fvcked up in the mastering process. They wanted to squeeze too much information on two sides of vinyl, they squeezed all the life out of it. The available outtakes of Dance LS and If You Can't Rock me sound fantastic.
Mathijs
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Wild Slivovitz
()
Date: June 7, 2017 12:30
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
Rocky Dijon
BEST ENGINEERED: Tattoo You
WORST ENGINEERED: A Bigger Bang
+1
But "Some Girls" still has the best drum sound, IMO.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
MadMax
()
Date: June 7, 2017 12:48
The best: Emotional Rescue (Kimsey's great drum sounds!)
Worst: ABB- Digital strange sound, brickmastered up to a breakin' point. Songs good, gastling production.
Worst: ABB- Digital strange sound, brickmastered up to a breakin' point. Songs good, gastling production.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: June 7, 2017 13:10
Quote
MathijsQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
DandelionPowderman
Good points, Rambler.
I think Short And Curlies, TWFNO, Fingerprint File and If You Really Want To Be My Friend sound good on IORR.
Might be that the three first songs are clouding my impression of the album as a whole. The drum sound on IYCRM is really bad, and ATPTB sounds like any use of natural reverb was prohibited. IORR is, well, IORR. Love it as it is, but it is pretty bad
Exactly and perhaps the guitars. I love the iorr album but they really miscalculated by following a short lived trend in sounds.
It's not so much the following of trends, they just fvcked up in the mastering process. They wanted to squeeze too much information on two sides of vinyl, they squeezed all the life out of it. The available outtakes of Dance LS and If You Can't Rock me sound fantastic.
Mathijs
They sound fantastic and I love those two songs dearly, always have no matter what, but I still think they could have gained recognition from the critics or at least fans through better sound on both guitars on IYCRM and Taylors on DLS.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: June 7, 2017 16:12
Quote
Rocky Dijon
BEST ENGINEERED: Tattoo You
WORST ENGINEERED: A Bigger Bang
Spot On!
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 7, 2017 16:31
The snare on ABB has an ugly, metallic clang that is truly displeasing to the ear. As a drummer, I love it when drums are loud and crisp in the mix, but the brick-walling on that album is an atrocity.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
john lomax
()
Date: June 7, 2017 19:26
I would say the worst are:
IORR
GHS
ABB
IORR and GHS sound muddy and muffled. And ABB is over compressed and has no space or dynamic range.
The best sounding album in my opinion is Black and Blue - absolutely crystal clear production.
IORR
GHS
ABB
IORR and GHS sound muddy and muffled. And ABB is over compressed and has no space or dynamic range.
The best sounding album in my opinion is Black and Blue - absolutely crystal clear production.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 7, 2017 21:08
Best sounding albums?
Emotional Rescue
Let It Bleed
Sticky Fingers
Exile On Main Street
Tattoo You
Black And Blue
Goats Head Soup
Worst sounding albums?
Some Girls
Steel Wheels
Voodoo Lounge
Undercover
It's Only Rock'N'Roll
Their Satanic Majesties Request
And of course... the one that is the absolute worst Rolling Stones album ever indeed sounds the worst.
Emotional Rescue
Let It Bleed
Sticky Fingers
Exile On Main Street
Tattoo You
Black And Blue
Goats Head Soup
Worst sounding albums?
Some Girls
Steel Wheels
Voodoo Lounge
Undercover
It's Only Rock'N'Roll
Their Satanic Majesties Request
And of course... the one that is the absolute worst Rolling Stones album ever indeed sounds the worst.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 7, 2017 21:53
Quote
GasLightStreet
And of course... the one that is the absolute worst Rolling Stones album ever indeed sounds the worst.
Have you ears checked, buddy... the album you refer to as their worst sounds crystal clear, very crisp with very good seperation of each instrument. Jagger´s voice is captured better than on most albums.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 7, 2017 23:47
I hate to agree with you, but Dirty Work indeed has fairly good production. It's certainly dated to the '80s, but it's bright, crisp and clear.Quote
HMSQuote
GasLightStreet
And of course... the one that is the absolute worst Rolling Stones album ever indeed sounds the worst.
Have you ears checked, buddy... the album you refer to as their worst sounds crystal clear, very crisp with very good seperation of each instrument. Jagger´s voice is captured better than on most albums.
But then I also think Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge and B2B are all well-produced, which puts me in the minority. The knock is that they're TOO well produced, but I'm a fan of crisp production. It wouldn't have suited the early '70s Stones, but times change.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 8, 2017 04:57
Quote
keefriff99I hate to agree with you, but Dirty Work indeed has fairly good production. It's certainly dated to the '80s, but it's bright, crisp and clear.Quote
HMSQuote
GasLightStreet
And of course... the one that is the absolute worst Rolling Stones album ever indeed sounds the worst.
Have you ears checked, buddy... the album you refer to as their worst sounds crystal clear, very crisp with very good seperation of each instrument. Jagger´s voice is captured better than on most albums.
Usual bunk. SOME GIRLS sounds better than THE WORST ROLLING STONES ALBUM EVER. "Bright, crisp and clear" does not always mean good or great - and in this case, the worst ever, it would've been much better if it had the haze of their 1970s LPs.
Quote
keefriff99
But then I also think Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge and B2B are all well-produced, which puts me in the minority. The knock is that they're TOO well produced, but I'm a fan of crisp production. It wouldn't have suited the early '70s Stones, but times change.
Part of the problem with this question is "engineered". Their late 1960s/early 1970s LPs are engineered fantastically, especially SF and EOMS considering what it took to produce them.
UNDERCOVER is engineered fantastically.
BLACK AND BLUE may be their most simple engineered LP, or at least as simple as their pre-TSMR albums.
TATTOO YOU qualifies as a fantastic engineered album due to the overall work involved.
Engineering is not producing nor is it mixing/sound of, which is what I was thinking was in question. Engineering is the work it took to get the sounds.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 8, 2017 05:07
What are you talking about? I never said anything about Some Girls, which has a great sound.Quote
GasLightStreet
Usual bunk. SOME GIRLS sounds better than THE WORST ROLLING STONES ALBUM EVER. "Bright, crisp and clear" does not always mean good or great - and in this case, the worst ever, it would've been much better if it had the haze of their 1970s LPs.
I simply said that Dirty Work has "fairly good" production. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but in no way do I think it's terrible.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 8, 2017 05:27
Quote
keefriff99What are you talking about? I never said anything about Some Girls, which has a great sound.Quote
GasLightStreet
Usual bunk. SOME GIRLS sounds better than THE WORST ROLLING STONES ALBUM EVER. "Bright, crisp and clear" does not always mean good or great - and in this case, the worst ever, it would've been much better if it had the haze of their 1970s LPs.
I simply said that Dirty Work has "fairly good" production. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but in no way do I think it's terrible.
You said "Dirty Work indeed has fairly good production" and that it's ""Bright, crisp and clear". It's cookie cutter production. A 10 year old could've "produced" that excuse of a turd.
And - just to be clear - as you can see, I did not say you slagged SOME GIRLS. I said SG sounds better than DW - and that's saying something considering how bad SG sounds.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
donvis
()
Date: June 8, 2017 05:52
Am I the only one who thought Blue & Lonesome was way too compressed and has the worst sound??
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 8, 2017 06:12
Quote
donvis
Am I the only one who thought Blue & Lonesome was way too compressed and has the worst sound??
No.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 8, 2017 06:21
You're quoting my words back to me like you think I'm contradicting myself. I posted exactly what I meant and I stand by it. Just because DW is a bad album doesn't mean I can't rate the production as being decent, especially given the circumstances under which it was recorded.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
keefriff99What are you talking about? I never said anything about Some Girls, which has a great sound.Quote
GasLightStreet
Usual bunk. SOME GIRLS sounds better than THE WORST ROLLING STONES ALBUM EVER. "Bright, crisp and clear" does not always mean good or great - and in this case, the worst ever, it would've been much better if it had the haze of their 1970s LPs.
I simply said that Dirty Work has "fairly good" production. Hardly a ringing endorsement, but in no way do I think it's terrible.
You said "Dirty Work indeed has fairly good production" and that it's ""Bright, crisp and clear". It's cookie cutter production. A 10 year old could've "produced" that excuse of a turd.
And - just to be clear - as you can see, I did not say you slagged SOME GIRLS. I said SG sounds better than DW - and that's saying something considering how bad SG sounds.
It's still below par by Stones standards, but the engineering is the least of its problems.
So now the conventional "wisdom" around here is that SOME GIRLS, of all albums, has a shitty sound? Where the @#$%& did that come from?
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
Pecman
()
Date: June 8, 2017 06:57
Some Girls...worst sounding...really?
There best selling album ever?
Maybe all their albums should have sounded as bad as Some Girls.
GHS and IORR have a lot to be desired.
But Emotional Rescue sounds like someone smacking their hand against a piece of loose leaf paper for the snare sound...it is terribly thin...no bass...no bottom...no warmth...nothing...they managed to get "Emotional Rescue" out of it and "She's So Cold"...as somewhat hits in their catalog.
I'm just amazed that Black and Blue sounds the best when they (as a band)
were at there least connected and totally in a mess with the departure of Mick Taylor and the auditioning of new guitar players.
Pecman
There best selling album ever?
Maybe all their albums should have sounded as bad as Some Girls.
GHS and IORR have a lot to be desired.
But Emotional Rescue sounds like someone smacking their hand against a piece of loose leaf paper for the snare sound...it is terribly thin...no bass...no bottom...no warmth...nothing...they managed to get "Emotional Rescue" out of it and "She's So Cold"...as somewhat hits in their catalog.
I'm just amazed that Black and Blue sounds the best when they (as a band)
were at there least connected and totally in a mess with the departure of Mick Taylor and the auditioning of new guitar players.
Pecman
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: June 8, 2017 07:02
This is a level of musical sophistication beyond my ken. I am constitutionally incapable of distinguishing between an album of bad songs that sound bad and an album of bad songs that sound good.
Re: Best Engineered / Worst Engineered Stones Album - Dirty Work Excluded
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: June 8, 2017 07:10
Quote
Pecman
Some Girls...worst sounding...really?
There best selling album ever?
Maybe all their albums should have sounded as bad as Some Girls.
GHS and IORR have a lot to be desired.
But Emotional Rescue sounds like someone smacking their hand against a piece of loose leaf paper for the snare sound...it is terribly thin...no bass...no bottom...no warmth...nothing...they managed to get "Emotional Rescue" out of it and "She's So Cold"...as somewhat hits in their catalog.
I'm just amazed that Black and Blue sounds the best when they (as a band)
were at there least connected and totally in a mess with the departure of Mick Taylor and the auditioning of new guitar players.
Pecman
Yes. SOME GIRLS sounds awful. Really. For some reason your confusing sales with sound quality.
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