Just one more word on the security state, if I may. People seem to think of this militant violence as something new, and that making numerous corporations rich by implementing all their security checkpoint machines every place people gather will solve the problem.

Since this latest incidence of militant violence involves England, I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and their sustained, long-term bombing campaign of the 1970s. In 1973, the IRA set off 36 bombs in London alone. Here's a list of their first 20 years of handiwork and the results:

1973, March 8: two IRA car bombs in London explode outside the Old Bailey and government's agriculture department headquarters, killing one person and wounding more than 150

1974, October 5: two IRA bombs explode in pubs in the London suburb of Guildford; five dead, more than 50 injured

November 21: two IRA bombs in Birmingham kill 19 and wound more than 180

1982, July 20: two IRA bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park in London kill 11 British soldiers and wound more than 40, mostly civilian onlookers

1983, December 17: IRA car bomb explodes outside Harrods department store, killing six people and wounding about 100

1984 October 12: IRA targets conference of ruling Conservative party, killing five and wounding 24, but narrowly missing the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher

1989, September 22: the IRA bombs the Royal Marines School of Music in Deal, killing 10 soldiers and wounding more than 30

1991, February 7: IRA fires three homemade mortar shells at No 10 Downing Street, the British prime minister's official residence in London. No injuries

1992, April 10: a massive IRA truck bomb in London's financial district kills three and causes hundreds of millions of pounds worth in damage

April 24: an IRA truck bomb in London's financial district, killing one and causing heavy damage

Now, in the early seventies, with all that militant mischief going on, did England turn their society into a concentration camp of surveillance and militarized security as a show of safety?

It isn't the action of militants and their bombs that is new, it's the government response that's new -- as well as that of the population, which supports the new military nanny state through cooperative brainwashing.

And still, there will be more bombs going off in more tomorrows, and more of tomorrow's people will die.

So, no thanks, I'll keep my freedom -- by keeping my state of mind. Even if I have to just stay home, rather than go out where the people meet, to retain that sense of freedom.

A state of mind... is a terrible thing to waste.

Quote
stonehearted
Just one more word on the security state, if I may. People seem to think of this militant violence as something new, and that making numerous corporations rich by implementing all their security checkpoint machines every place people gather will solve the problem.

Since this latest incidence of militant violence involves England, I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and their sustained, long-term bombing campaign of the 1970s. In 1973, the IRA set off 36 bombs in London alone. Here's a list of their first 20 years of handiwork and the results:

1973, March 8: two IRA car bombs in London explode outside the Old Bailey and government's agriculture department headquarters, killing one person and wounding more than 150

1974, October 5: two IRA bombs explode in pubs in the London suburb of Guildford; five dead, more than 50 injured

November 21: two IRA bombs in Birmingham kill 19 and wound more than 180

1982, July 20: two IRA bombs in Hyde Park and Regent's Park in London kill 11 British soldiers and wound more than 40, mostly civilian onlookers

1983, December 17: IRA car bomb explodes outside Harrods department store, killing six people and wounding about 100

1984 October 12: IRA targets conference of ruling Conservative party, killing five and wounding 24, but narrowly missing the prime minister, Margaret Thatcher

1989, September 22: the IRA bombs the Royal Marines School of Music in Deal, killing 10 soldiers and wounding more than 30

1991, February 7: IRA fires three homemade mortar shells at No 10 Downing Street, the British prime minister's official residence in London. No injuries

1992, April 10: a massive IRA truck bomb in London's financial district kills three and causes hundreds of millions of pounds worth in damage

April 24: an IRA truck bomb in London's financial district, killing one and causing heavy damage

Now, in the early seventies, with all that militant mischief going on, did England turn their society into a concentration camp of surveillance and militarized security as a show of safety?

It isn't the action of militants and their bombs that is new, it's the government response that's new -- as well as that of the population, which supports the new military nanny state through cooperative brainwashing.

And still, there will be more bombs going off in more tomorrows, and more of tomorrow's people will die.

So, no thanks, I'll keep my freedom -- by keeping my state of mind. Even if I have to just stay home, rather than go out where the people meet, to retain that sense of freedom.

A state of mind... is a terrible thing to waste.

Bjørnulf did mention it, as well as providing statistics, on page 2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-23 22:05 by DandelionPowderman.

London is reportedly the second-most surveilled city on the planet, behind Beijing.

People are naive if they think things were different in the '70s and '80s because people were "tougher". The technology simply hadn't progressed to the point where it was feasible to place low-cost cameras everywhere and then process terabytes of digital information cheaply.

How about Operation Demetrius in Britain in the 1970s?

[en.wikipedia.org]

Sounds pretty awful to me. The Alien and Sedition Act, the Japanese Interment during WWII...people do awful things when they're afraid.

I hardly think having to empty one's pockets and walk through a metal detector en route to a concert with 50,000 other people is giving in to irrational fear and succumbing to the police state.

This "all or nothing" mentality is absurd.

“I am so sick of reading headlines like this. We as a race, THE HUMAN RACE, have to do better than this. A music concert is supposed to be a place where people gather to forget their problems for a few hours, not somewhere to roll the dice with your life. At times like this, I think the only thing a normal person can do is try to be the best, most moral, human they can be- in our jaded era, I believe this is more necessary than ever.

For instance, this evening after I read this headline, I ran into a very loose acquaintance at the grocery store & mentioned the news. This person joked ‘Maybe they did it because it was an Ariana Grande show.’ I was too shocked to even say anything- I utterly fail to find the humor in the fact that at least 19 people are dead & many more injured, whatever you may think of someone’s music. I know nothing about Ariana Grande or any of her songs, but I can guarantee that people of many different races, religions, & beliefs were at that show for the same reason- to have a good time. Some of them won’t go home tonight. This is not @#$%& funny to me. This sort of jaded, joking, mentality is evidence to me of the continual chipping away of our humanity by the pathetically low standards of our era.

We are better than this, people. It’s dehumanizing, just like the freakish & twisted beliefs that allowed this @#$%& terrorist to kill a bunch of people they didn’t know. Everything you do & say has consequences, even if you don’t believe that. Make sure you do your best to think & speak with a moral heart- maybe your kindness will prevent someone from going down a dark path- you never know who you may effect positively. My thoughts & prayers are with y’all in the U.K. tonight.”

Randy Blythe.

Quote
keefriff99
London is reportedly the second-most surveilled city on the planet, behind Beijing.

I remember about 15 years ago I was smoking a bit of hash in a little pipe right behind the National Gallery near Trafalgar Square - probably one of the busiest tourist spots in London. After a minute, I looked up to see a CCTV staring right down on me! It was more embarrassing than anything else, and I quickly scooted off back around the corner and hid in the National Gallery for awhile admiring all the great art until the coast was clear.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Just saw a very sad story on the news about a couple in Manchester who have yet to hear from their 14 year old daughter...gut wrenching.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
dcba
“I am so sick of reading headlines like this. We as a race, THE HUMAN RACE, have to do better than this. A music concert is supposed to be a place where people gather to forget their problems for a few hours, not somewhere to roll the dice with your life. At times like this, I think the only thing a normal person can do is try to be the best, most moral, human they can be- in our jaded era, I believe this is more necessary than ever.

For instance, this evening after I read this headline, I ran into a very loose acquaintance at the grocery store & mentioned the news. This person joked ‘Maybe they did it because it was an Ariana Grande show.’ I was too shocked to even say anything- I utterly fail to find the humor in the fact that at least 19 people are dead & many more injured, whatever you may think of someone’s music. I know nothing about Ariana Grande or any of her songs, but I can guarantee that people of many different races, religions, & beliefs were at that show for the same reason- to have a good time. Some of them won’t go home tonight. This is not @#$%& funny to me. This sort of jaded, joking, mentality is evidence to me of the continual chipping away of our humanity by the pathetically low standards of our era.

We are better than this, people. It’s dehumanizing, just like the freakish & twisted beliefs that allowed this @#$%& terrorist to kill a bunch of people they didn’t know. Everything you do & say has consequences, even if you don’t believe that. Make sure you do your best to think & speak with a moral heart- maybe your kindness will prevent someone from going down a dark path- you never know who you may effect positively. My thoughts & prayers are with y’all in the U.K. tonight.”

Randy Blythe.

Thank you for saying what is in my heart

Quote
dcba
“I am so sick of reading headlines like this. We as a race, THE HUMAN RACE, have to do better than this. A music concert is supposed to be a place where people gather to forget their problems for a few hours, not somewhere to roll the dice with your life. At times like this, I think the only thing a normal person can do is try to be the best, most moral, human they can be- in our jaded era, I believe this is more necessary than ever.

For instance, this evening after I read this headline, I ran into a very loose acquaintance at the grocery store & mentioned the news. This person joked ‘Maybe they did it because it was an Ariana Grande show.’ I was too shocked to even say anything- I utterly fail to find the humor in the fact that at least 19 people are dead & many more injured, whatever you may think of someone’s music. I know nothing about Ariana Grande or any of her songs, but I can guarantee that people of many different races, religions, & beliefs were at that show for the same reason- to have a good time. Some of them won’t go home tonight. This is not @#$%& funny to me. This sort of jaded, joking, mentality is evidence to me of the continual chipping away of our humanity by the pathetically low standards of our era.

We are better than this, people. It’s dehumanizing, just like the freakish & twisted beliefs that allowed this @#$%& terrorist to kill a bunch of people they didn’t know. Everything you do & say has consequences, even if you don’t believe that. Make sure you do your best to think & speak with a moral heart- maybe your kindness will prevent someone from going down a dark path- you never know who you may effect positively. My thoughts & prayers are with y’all in the U.K. tonight.”

Randy Blythe.

Had to look up Randy Blythe thinking he might be a country music star, but turns out he's the lead singer for the heavy metal band Lamb of God!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Why is Manchester United playing in Stockholm tommorow?

I can't understand.

All about money.

Quote
RipThisBone
Why is Manchester United playing in Stockholm tomorrow?

I can't understand.

All about money.

Europa League final.
Why are the Stones playing in Stockholm later this year?


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-24 00:13 by Deltics.

Most people are more into fear than cold facts. The fact : Terrorism is rare. Most of us will never ever be affected by it. However, most of us do know somebody who was seriously affected by other types of tragedies like car accidents, blind violence, alcohol related tragedies etc.

Some say there would be 10 times more terror unless the police did their job. well that is the same as saying there would be 10 times more car accidents if speed limits were removed, or 10 times more alcohol fatalities if the pubs never closed, and there were no age limits on alcohol. Fact is we do have security in place, both for violence, terror, speeding and alcohol related damages. For every person killed by terror in Europe there are may be a hundred killed in the traffic.

Every terrorist is one to many, like serial killers, rapists and other criminal people. We need to trust the authorities in taking care of our security.

Bjornulf

Quote
Deltics

Quote
RipThisBone
Why is Manchester United playing in Stockholm tomorrow?

I can't understand.

All about money.

Europa League final.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

It's only the Baby Cup of Europe, not the EUROPE CUP 1.

This game against Ajax should have been postponed.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-24 00:25 by RipThisBone.

Deltics: "

"Why are the Stones playing in Stockholm later this year?

Because THE ROLLING STONES are the GREATEST ROCK & ROLL BAND in THE WORLD.

Why are you asking?

Quote
RipThisBone

Quote
Deltics

Quote
RipThisBone
Why is Manchester United playing in Stockholm tomorrow?

I can't understand.

All about money.

Europa League final.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

It's only the Baby Cup of Europe, not the EUROPE CUP 1.

This game against Ajax should have been postponed.

Nonsense.
If we do that then we let the terrorists set the agenda.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

...................Oh, that is a surprise.


Edit: You are right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-24 00:27 by RipThisBone.

Quote
bv
Most people are more into fear than cold facts. The fact : Terrorism is rare. Most of us will never ever be affected by it. However, most of us do know somebody who was seriously affected by other types of tragedies like car accidents, blind violence, alcohol related tragedies etc.

Some say there would be 10 times more terror unless the police did their job. well that is the same as saying there would be 10 times more car accidents if speed limits were removed, or 10 times more alcohol fatalities if the pubs never closed, and there were no age limits on alcohol. Fact is we do have security in place, both for violence, terror, speeding and alcohol related damages. For every person killed by terror in Europe there are may be a hundred killed in the traffic.

Every terrorist is one to many, like serial killers, rapists and other criminal people. We need to trust the authorities in taking care of our security.

These comments are deeply offensive.

There is a HUGE difference between a traffic incident and a deliberate act of violence on innocent people in the form of a homemade nail bomb.

Comparing the number of deaths between terrorist attacks and accidental road traffic collisions & alcohol related deaths is just absolutely ridiculous and completely misses the point as to why people are so upset over these types of atrocities.

Bastion.

Quote
keefriff99
I hardly think having to empty one's pockets and walk through a metal detector en route to a concert with 50,000 other people is giving in to irrational fear and succumbing to the police state.

This "all or nothing" mentality is absurd.

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” -- Benjamin Franklin

Myself, I pity all these Millennials who are simply too young to understand the free society that has been lost in the last 30 years, ever since governments have become privatized corporations in their own right. But, then again, how does one explain the glory of an unsupervised youth of the 1970s to folks who were brought up on day care agencies, play dates, and CCTV?

In addition to concert venues and other crowded places, I've added Millennials to my list of things to avoid -- makes life that much better overall.

THE AGE -- 24 May 2017



ROCKMAN

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist_plots_in_the_United_States_post-9/11

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/the-11-imminent-terror-attacks-australia-narrowly-escaped/news-story/86fc734df0963e21fe038c0eecce7d80

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11997853/Revealed-Britain-foils-seven-terror-attacks-in-just-six-months.html


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel[/url]


http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html

Quote
Father Ted
Thanks for posting those terrorism statistics. At risk of getting shot down, I would suggest that the "terror threat" is grossly over-emphasised by British politicians for several reasons: 1) a fearful population is a more pliable population, 2) ever-increasing surveillance powers for police forces and intelligence agencies, 3) bigger budgets for military/intelligence CT operations (although in the UK, police budgets and officer numbers have been really cut in recent years, work that one out). So my cynical side says that having a terrorist threat is actually beneficial to for the government. Of course, very few politicians fundamentally disagree with the basic government policy towards terrorism and those that do are denounced as "unpatriotic" or "sympathisers" or "appeasers".

I'm finding quite a lot in the above with which I agree.

Add to the mix the unthinkably large scale of the data mining about people's interests and activities that goes on in the name of something called Facebook, and there's grounds for being really worried. It's worrying that so many people simply don't seem to care about what Facebook is doing with their data.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

All blessings on the Stones and their fans for the No Filter Tour.

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
keefriff99
I hardly think having to empty one's pockets and walk through a metal detector en route to a concert with 50,000 other people is giving in to irrational fear and succumbing to the police state.

This "all or nothing" mentality is absurd.

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” -- Benjamin Franklin

Myself, I pity all these Millennials who are simply too young to understand the free society that has been lost in the last 30 years, ever since governments have become privatized corporations in their own right. But, then again, how does one explain the glory of an unsupervised youth of the 1970s to folks who were brought up on day care agencies, play dates, and CCTV?

In addition to concert venues and other crowded places, I've added Millennials to my list of things to avoid -- makes life that much better overall.

"I'll take tired, over-used, cliched quotes for $1000, Alex."

[www.npr.org]

The '70s...the good ol' days of J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. Maybe if you were a privileged white suburban teenage brat, you could get away with anything, but it was a terrifying time for a lot of people.

I don't disagree with anything you said, and yet the fact remains that a basic security checkpoint at a concert where 50,000 people are going to gather in a major metropolitan area is hardly a case of big brother run amok. You are irrational.

Yes, the terror threat at current levels, is minor.
However, in the future, Islamists may have nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, and as their goal is to first destabilize and then destroy our societies so they can assume power, they would definitely use them.

Quote
Bastion

Quote
bv
Most people are more into fear than cold facts. The fact : Terrorism is rare. Most of us will never ever be affected by it. However, most of us do know somebody who was seriously affected by other types of tragedies like car accidents, blind violence, alcohol related tragedies etc.

Some say there would be 10 times more terror unless the police did their job. well that is the same as saying there would be 10 times more car accidents if speed limits were removed, or 10 times more alcohol fatalities if the pubs never closed, and there were no age limits on alcohol. Fact is we do have security in place, both for violence, terror, speeding and alcohol related damages. For every person killed by terror in Europe there are may be a hundred killed in the traffic.

Every terrorist is one to many, like serial killers, rapists and other criminal people. We need to trust the authorities in taking care of our security.

These comments are deeply offensive.

There is a HUGE difference between a traffic incident and a deliberate act of violence on innocent people in the form of a homemade nail bomb.

Comparing the number of deaths between terrorist attacks and accidental road traffic collisions & alcohol related deaths is just absolutely ridiculous and completely misses the point as to why people are so upset over these types of atrocities.

What's offensive about it?

It just shows that our priorities are completely out of whack. For instance, our felonious scumbag of a President is proposing to cut over $1 billion for cancer research.

Odds are everyone on this forum is more likely to be touched by cancer (directly or indirectly) than terrorism, and yet we freak out over terrorism and spend trillions on the MIC because it's on the news 24/7.

How about childhood nutrition? Prenatal care? Early education? A clean environment? Preventive health screenings? Those things could save millions of lives (look at the statistics), and all are on the chopping block in service to military spending and tax cuts.

And these dirtbags have the gall to promote themselves with the ridiculous moniker of "pro life"?

Quote
keefriff99

Quote
stonehearted
Myself, I pity all these Millennials who are simply too young to understand the free society that has been lost in the last 30 years, ever since governments have become privatized corporations in their own right. But, then again, how does one explain the glory of an unsupervised youth of the 1970s to folks who were brought up on day care agencies, play dates, and CCTV?

In addition to concert venues and other crowded places, I've added Millennials to my list of things to avoid -- makes life that much better overall.

The '70s...the good ol' days of J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. Maybe if you were a privileged white suburban teenage brat, you could get away with anything, but it was a terrifying time for a lot of people.

I don't disagree with anything you said, and yet the fact remains that a basic security checkpoint at a concert where 50,000 people are going to gather in a major metropolitan area is hardly a case of big brother run amok. You are irrational.

You don't disagree with anything I said, yet you believe I am irrational. Rather than try and get my head round that piece of pretzel logic, let me just close with a couple of old-fashioned thoughts.

You strike me as someone who only experienced the 1970s through biased schoolbooks and lame television documentaries. But I was there, as a kid, so let me tell you...

That at the age of 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, whatever, I could get on my bike whenever I wanted and ride for miles, alone or with friends. No leash around my brain, just so long as I got back in time for supper and didn't get into trouble while I was away.

That in my high school, even if you were just fourteen years old you were allowed to smoke cigarettes, just so long as you stood out back, by the door at the end of the hallway past the lunchroom, along the walkway overlooking the athletic field.

How do you like them apples? Am I making your head spin? That's just a taste of how free and permissive things were.

Not like the cesspool of conformist corporate mobbing behavior you Millennials dwell in. Because of the viciousness and stupidity of Millennials, they've had to enact anti-bullying legislation to keep all these psychopath Millennial slobs from driving each other to suicide. I hate to think how bad things will get when all these little monsters reach adulthood and start reproducing.

My generation never drove each other to suicide through bullying, and we never shot up schools on a weekly basis. We actually had values. A sound value system is a part of living as free people.

So I'll stop posting replies to you now, because I'm sure you're just itching to go and watch someone die on Facebook. Happy checkpoints -- it's what you deserve.

*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-24 03:48 by DeadHead4Ever.

Quote
bv
Most people are more into fear than cold facts. The fact : Terrorism is rare. Most of us will never ever be affected by it. However, most of us do know somebody who was seriously affected by other types of tragedies like car accidents, blind violence, alcohol related tragedies etc.

I'm sure that makes the mothers of the dead children feel much better

Quote
stonehearted

Quote
keefriff99

Quote
stonehearted
Myself, I pity all these Millennials who are simply too young to understand the free society that has been lost in the last 30 years, ever since governments have become privatized corporations in their own right. But, then again, how does one explain the glory of an unsupervised youth of the 1970s to folks who were brought up on day care agencies, play dates, and CCTV?

In addition to concert venues and other crowded places, I've added Millennials to my list of things to avoid -- makes life that much better overall.

The '70s...the good ol' days of J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. Maybe if you were a privileged white suburban teenage brat, you could get away with anything, but it was a terrifying time for a lot of people.

I don't disagree with anything you said, and yet the fact remains that a basic security checkpoint at a concert where 50,000 people are going to gather in a major metropolitan area is hardly a case of big brother run amok. You are irrational.

You don't disagree with anything I said, yet you believe I am irrational. Rather than try and get my head round that piece of pretzel logic, let me just close with a couple of old-fashioned thoughts.

You strike me as someone who only experienced the 1970s through biased schoolbooks and lame television documentaries. But I was there, as a kid, so let me tell you...

That at the age of 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, whatever, I could get on my bike whenever I wanted and ride for miles, alone or with friends. No leash around my brain, just so long as I got back in time for supper and didn't get into trouble while I was away.

That in my high school, even if you were just fourteen years old you were allowed to smoke cigarettes, just so long as you stood out back, by the door at the end of the hallway past the lunchroom, along the walkway overlooking the athletic field.

How do you like them apples? Am I making your head spin? That's just a taste of how free and permissive things were.

Not like the cesspool of conformist corporate mobbing behavior you Millennials dwell in. Because of the viciousness and stupidity of Millennials, they've had to enact anti-bullying legislation to keep all these psychopath Millennial slobs from driving each other to suicide. I hate to think how bad things will get when all these little monsters reach adulthood and start reproducing.

My generation never drove each other to suicide through bullying, and we never shot up schools on a weekly basis. We actually had values. A sound value system is a part of living as free people.

So I'll stop posting replies to you now, because I'm sure you're just itching to go and watch someone die on Facebook. Happy checkpoints -- it's what you deserve.

Yeah, baby boomer values...greed, cocaine, orchestrating financial collapses, voting for Reagan and Trump. Your generation has driven this country into the ground. I'm actually not a millennial (not that you deserve to know anything about my life), but we'll be paying for your generation's monstrous selfishness and entitlement for the rest of our lives.

My initial post on being understanding towards concert security was completely measured and innocuous, and yet you equated me to the terrorists who perpetrated this atrocity.

And it's been downhill from there. You appear to be a deranged individual.

Quote
keefriff99
You appear to be a deranged individual.

You disagree with a poster's logic concerning the decline of personal freedom in modern society, so you resort to gaslighting. Nice!

Well, one good thing about this thread: At least now I know who to avoid on this board.

I'll now make an exit from this thread, in search of civil discussion on matters relating only to music.

I was at the arena twice last week. One of the nights I took my little boy who is 6. While this won't affect my concert attendance in future, it will be a very long time before I take him again.
Thoughts are with everyone.