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Witness

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LorenzAgain
Of course there will be singles. Every artist does it that way, the album drops on Apple Music and Spotify, all tracks are greyed out except the first single. You can add the album to the library and you always get a notification once a new song drops. Some songs might get a digital EP release with a remix and a lyrics YouTube video… can’t wait!

But then let the singles come after, not before the album release. Then I and others may buy the singles to obtain extra new songs, not included in the album, that could feature on B-sides of singles.

They will most likely release 2 or 3 singles before the album comes out. They did the same (3 singles) with Blue and Lonesome and many live releases.

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Big Al


... Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

It's all down to the CD format which took over in the 80s.

CD Album run times are typically just too long to capture with acceptable dynamics and frequency band width on a vinyl LP . [Max about 45 mins for best sound]

Both Flashpoint and and Steel Wheels suffered in this respect from being released as single albums of vinyl.

Edited to add ...

The downside of this subsequent trend to offer vinyl albums in the double format is that misguided mastering engineers have used the extra groove space to cut everything as loud as possible ! Coupled with typical "brick wall" compression...this is not the way to get a good sounding LP with natural musical dynamics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-24 14:23 by Spud.

Why be satisfied if they limit themselves to an overpriced 10-track CD? Why not agree an EP is really the perfect length for a release? Think how much better FORTY LICKS would have been with just the Four New Licks and no repackaged hits.

Really, don't we just need a great double-sided single? Why bother with an EP when all four songs will never be of the same caliber? Imagine how great the 50th Anniversary would have been with just the two new GRRR offerings?

When you get right down to it, the reality is never as exciting as the anticipation. They should just continue writing and recording new songs and never releasing them. That way we know it's great and can speculate what's it's like forever!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-24 15:39 by Rocky Dijon.

....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

Ya Stones do cover of McTell's -- Scary Day Blues release on 78 ....



ROCKMAN

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VoodooLounge13

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

I actually have two turntables that can play 78s. I bought an Audio Technica 120 for specifically that reason, and had to order special cartridge/stylus for it. I have about 40-50 shellac records, some over 100 years old.

As Rockman might say...lurv it!

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VoodooLounge13

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

i do but unlike treacle's expensive fancy rig i use this




been restored with new tubes needle and speaker

and we laugh but i would have loved to have had some of the blue & lonesome tacks on a 78

careful wiv dem 78's Treacle
Handle wiv kid gloves... they shatter real real easy



ROCKMAN

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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ProfessorWolf

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Rockman
Cormac McCarthy has just released
two new novels 16 years since his last The Road ...

Some connection here ??? ... Stones double album coming

hey buddy don't ya know that they've all been double albums since 1989?

even blue and lonesome for some reason

also that reminds me if this is a 45 min album please don't release it as a double album when one would do

Whilst it’s certainly true that many are double-vinyl releases, but they’re not marketed as being ‘double-albums’, are they? Voodoo Lounge isn’t seen as being a ‘double album’ likewise with, say, Oasis’ Definitely Maybe. The concept fizzled-out in the post vinyl-age, when CD’s allowed up to 79-minutes of audio. I suppose a ‘genuine’ double-album, ‘today’, would be two CD’s: Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ Stadium Arcadian; Foo Fighters’ In Your Honour, etc.

It’s all quite muddled now, I suppose. Streaming and digital downloading has changed everything.

Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

i assume because they can charge more for a double album

the triple album el mocambo is for similar reason i assume as well

There's a huge misconception that vinyl sounds better than CD (or whatever digital format) and record labels know that!

Add in the aspect of long player size artwork... hard core fans, interested casual fans and the odd collector paying for something that is just a CD only with noisy scratchy sounds... and the physical aspect of having to do something with it ie changing sides: plus it comes with a scarf, a special print and whatever - a bunch of cardboard.

OK so vinyl releases aren't brickwalled.

That's the biggest difference for a majority of vinyl releases in the past 20 years or whatever.

well i wouldn't know if it sounds better or not the carts i use are 50-60 years old on 40-50 year old turntables and receivers

but if i had $20,000-100,000 worth of the best modern equipment i might just be able to beat a cd for sound quality

but who can afford that?

and all the things you say are why i love vinyl plus i prefer collecting the original vinyl versions of albums with no digitized anything in between me and the original recording source over new vinyl releases

but if i buy new vinyl releases its to get past the dreaded brickwall

also another bonus is collecting old bootlegs on vinyl

i just got a bunch of trade mark of quality stones boots at a local record shop on colored transparent vinyl for a good price

can't beat that with a cd or digital version!

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ProfessorWolf

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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ProfessorWolf

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Rockman
Cormac McCarthy has just released
two new novels 16 years since his last The Road ...

Some connection here ??? ... Stones double album coming

hey buddy don't ya know that they've all been double albums since 1989?

even blue and lonesome for some reason

also that reminds me if this is a 45 min album please don't release it as a double album when one would do

Whilst it’s certainly true that many are double-vinyl releases, but they’re not marketed as being ‘double-albums’, are they? Voodoo Lounge isn’t seen as being a ‘double album’ likewise with, say, Oasis’ Definitely Maybe. The concept fizzled-out in the post vinyl-age, when CD’s allowed up to 79-minutes of audio. I suppose a ‘genuine’ double-album, ‘today’, would be two CD’s: Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ Stadium Arcadian; Foo Fighters’ In Your Honour, etc.

It’s all quite muddled now, I suppose. Streaming and digital downloading has changed everything.

Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

i assume because they can charge more for a double album

the triple album el mocambo is for similar reason i assume as well

There's a huge misconception that vinyl sounds better than CD (or whatever digital format) and record labels know that!

Add in the aspect of long player size artwork... hard core fans, interested casual fans and the odd collector paying for something that is just a CD only with noisy scratchy sounds... and the physical aspect of having to do something with it ie changing sides: plus it comes with a scarf, a special print and whatever - a bunch of cardboard.

OK so vinyl releases aren't brickwalled.

That's the biggest difference for a majority of vinyl releases in the past 20 years or whatever.

well i wouldn't know if it sounds better or not the carts i use are 50-60 years old on 40-50 year old turntables and receivers

but if i had $20,000-100,000 worth of the best modern equipment i might just be able to beat a cd for sound quality

but who can afford that?

and all the things you say are why i love vinyl plus i prefer collecting the original vinyl versions of albums with no digitized anything in between me and the original recording source over new vinyl releases

but if i buy new vinyl releases its to get past the dreaded brickwall

also another bonus is collecting old bootlegs on vinyl

i just got a bunch of trade mark of quality stones boots at a local record shop on colored transparent vinyl for a good price

can't beat that with a cd or digital version!

I think you missed a major important point of vinyl releases: they won't sound better when the album was recorded with Pro Tools etc.

It's just a CD etc on vinyl. It's just not brickwalled. Of course it can be in regard to what they source but the grooves won't allow it, so the source is brickwalled but the format isn't... yet it's still totally compressed anyway.

I don't see how that can equate to a whatever thousand dollar sound system having modern digitally mastered vinyl sound: it's just a CD on vinyl!

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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ProfessorWolf

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Rockman
Cormac McCarthy has just released
two new novels 16 years since his last The Road ...

Some connection here ??? ... Stones double album coming

hey buddy don't ya know that they've all been double albums since 1989?

even blue and lonesome for some reason

also that reminds me if this is a 45 min album please don't release it as a double album when one would do

Whilst it’s certainly true that many are double-vinyl releases, but they’re not marketed as being ‘double-albums’, are they? Voodoo Lounge isn’t seen as being a ‘double album’ likewise with, say, Oasis’ Definitely Maybe. The concept fizzled-out in the post vinyl-age, when CD’s allowed up to 79-minutes of audio. I suppose a ‘genuine’ double-album, ‘today’, would be two CD’s: Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ Stadium Arcadian; Foo Fighters’ In Your Honour, etc.

It’s all quite muddled now, I suppose. Streaming and digital downloading has changed everything.

Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

i assume because they can charge more for a double album

the triple album el mocambo is for similar reason i assume as well

There's a huge misconception that vinyl sounds better than CD (or whatever digital format) and record labels know that!

Add in the aspect of long player size artwork... hard core fans, interested casual fans and the odd collector paying for something that is just a CD only with noisy scratchy sounds... and the physical aspect of having to do something with it ie changing sides: plus it comes with a scarf, a special print and whatever - a bunch of cardboard.

OK so vinyl releases aren't brickwalled.

That's the biggest difference for a majority of vinyl releases in the past 20 years or whatever.

well i wouldn't know if it sounds better or not the carts i use are 50-60 years old on 40-50 year old turntables and receivers

but if i had $20,000-100,000 worth of the best modern equipment i might just be able to beat a cd for sound quality

but who can afford that?

and all the things you say are why i love vinyl plus i prefer collecting the original vinyl versions of albums with no digitized anything in between me and the original recording source over new vinyl releases

but if i buy new vinyl releases its to get past the dreaded brickwall

also another bonus is collecting old bootlegs on vinyl

i just got a bunch of trade mark of quality stones boots at a local record shop on colored transparent vinyl for a good price

can't beat that with a cd or digital version!

I think you missed a major important point of vinyl releases: they won't sound better when the album was recorded with Pro Tools etc.

It's just a CD etc on vinyl. It's just not brickwalled. Of course it can be in regard to what they source but the grooves won't allow it, so the source is brickwalled but the format isn't... yet it's still totally compressed anyway.

I don't see how that can equate to a whatever thousand dollar sound system having modern digitally mastered vinyl sound: it's just a CD on vinyl!

no i agree with you modern vinyl release are basically cd's on vinyl

minus the brickwalling

that's why i pointed out that i enjoy collecting pre-digital mastering original vinyl releases instead of modern reissues except when it comes to things like tattoo you deluxe or goats head soup deluxe and likely the new stones album to get around the brickwalling (and because they look cool)

and my current setup uses a adc point 4 cartridge from 1964 (alternating with empire 880p 1961-62?, 888ve 1968? audio tecnica at-6 1963?) not a hi end cart but it makes tattoo you sound very nice to my ears compared to the cd thru headphones at high volume

but compared to the cd tons of detail are clearly missing (but who cares if it hurts to listen at length to the music at reasonable volume)

bur if i had something like this (with equal quality table, arm, receiver and speakers) i'd probably hear the missing detail plus some but likely not more then the cd since they are basically the same thing

but i wouldn't know maybe someone on here who has owned absurdly expensive hi end audio equipment can answer if it sounds better then cd (that is not modern vinyl but good condition vintage records) or if modern release that are digitally mastered sound as good or better



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 05:55 by ProfessorWolf.

Have any of the band been spotted in LA? Weren't they supposed to be there this week for final mastering, or mixing?

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Rockman
careful wiv dem 78's Treacle
Handle wiv kid gloves... they shatter real real easy

SHI DOO BEE!

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ProfessorWolf

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VoodooLounge13

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

i do but unlike treacle's expensive fancy rig i use this




been restored with new tubes needle and speaker

and we laugh but i would have loved to have had some of the blue & lonesome tacks on a 78

Love it!

The Audio Technica 120 was only a couple of hundred US, bought it after Christmas a couple of years ago. Since has doubled I think but still pretty inexpensive as far as turntables go, (direct drive too) I have an antique-ish Technics 1900 from the late 70s, baby brother to the 1200.

I don't have any really expensive turntables but a few others, belt drives. A couple of Pro Ject's. I always try not to over spend on them...they're like little art pieces scattered around the house.

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treaclefingers

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ProfessorWolf

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VoodooLounge13

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

i do but unlike treacle's expensive fancy rig i use this




been restored with new tubes needle and speaker

and we laugh but i would have loved to have had some of the blue & lonesome tacks on a 78

Love it!

The Audio Technica 120 was only a couple of hundred US, bought it after Christmas a couple of years ago. Since has doubled I think but still pretty inexpensive as far as turntables go, (direct drive too) I have an antique-ish Technics 1900 from the late 70s, baby brother to the 1200.

I don't have any really expensive turntables but a few others, belt drives. A couple of Pro Ject's. I always try not to over spend on them...they're like little art pieces scattered around the house.

thanks

got it for cheap 10 yeas ago sounds just fine for what it is and it doesn't take up much space

if i was to go the full turntable route with a moving magnet cart i'd probably go with a shure m44 which at one time had a stylus for the playback of 78's available

and something like a lenco l75 or dual 1219 or some other vintage table that allowed 78 playback

but this would cost a lot of money and i'm happy with my little admiral

my main table is a pioneer pl-560 from the late 70's that i got for $100 about 10 years ago and it gone way up in price since then

recently found a jvc jl-f50 at a thrift store for $20 it was all seized up got it working well now except the tone arm lift sets the arm down way to hard on the record

not sure how to fix that



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 07:04 by ProfessorWolf.

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ProfessorWolf

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VoodooLounge13

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Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

But how many of us actually have equipment on which to play it!!?? LOL Now, that's a real die-hard!!!

i do but unlike treacle's expensive fancy rig i use this




been restored with new tubes needle and speaker

and we laugh but i would have loved to have had some of the blue & lonesome tacks on a 78

What you want is a big old wind up Horn Gramophone, with needles made from bamboo .

Mock ye not...they can sound fabulous !

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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ProfessorWolf

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Rockman
Cormac McCarthy has just released
two new novels 16 years since his last The Road ...

Some connection here ??? ... Stones double album coming

hey buddy don't ya know that they've all been double albums since 1989?

even blue and lonesome for some reason

also that reminds me if this is a 45 min album please don't release it as a double album when one would do

Whilst it’s certainly true that many are double-vinyl releases, but they’re not marketed as being ‘double-albums’, are they? Voodoo Lounge isn’t seen as being a ‘double album’ likewise with, say, Oasis’ Definitely Maybe. The concept fizzled-out in the post vinyl-age, when CD’s allowed up to 79-minutes of audio. I suppose a ‘genuine’ double-album, ‘today’, would be two CD’s: Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ Stadium Arcadian; Foo Fighters’ In Your Honour, etc.

It’s all quite muddled now, I suppose. Streaming and digital downloading has changed everything.

Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

i assume because they can charge more for a double album

the triple album el mocambo is for similar reason i assume as well

There's a huge misconception that vinyl sounds better than CD (or whatever digital format) and record labels know that!

Add in the aspect of long player size artwork... hard core fans, interested casual fans and the odd collector paying for something that is just a CD only with noisy scratchy sounds... and the physical aspect of having to do something with it ie changing sides: plus it comes with a scarf, a special print and whatever - a bunch of cardboard.

OK so vinyl releases aren't brickwalled.

That's the biggest difference for a majority of vinyl releases in the past 20 years or whatever.

There’s no “misconception”, because, as to whether vinyl or CDs “sound better” it’s purely a personal feeling.

Some like the pure crystal clean sound of cd. Some like the, best way I can put out, natural sound of vinyl, pops, clicks and perhaps skips and all.

Personal opinion. Mine? Got rid of all my vinyl when CDs came along. Livec with them for many years before one day trying an LP again. Kept my CDs for the car, bought everything again on vinyl.

Rod

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

Quote
ProfessorWolf

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Rockman
Cormac McCarthy has just released
two new novels 16 years since his last The Road ...

Some connection here ??? ... Stones double album coming

hey buddy don't ya know that they've all been double albums since 1989?

even blue and lonesome for some reason

also that reminds me if this is a 45 min album please don't release it as a double album when one would do

Whilst it’s certainly true that many are double-vinyl releases, but they’re not marketed as being ‘double-albums’, are they? Voodoo Lounge isn’t seen as being a ‘double album’ likewise with, say, Oasis’ Definitely Maybe. The concept fizzled-out in the post vinyl-age, when CD’s allowed up to 79-minutes of audio. I suppose a ‘genuine’ double-album, ‘today’, would be two CD’s: Red Hot Chilli Peppers’ Stadium Arcadian; Foo Fighters’ In Your Honour, etc.

It’s all quite muddled now, I suppose. Streaming and digital downloading has changed everything.

Actually: why is Blue & Lonesome a double-vinyl release? Surely the quality wouldn’t be impaired by having it on one LP? It seems strange to me and it surely isn’t a convenient listening experience.

i assume because they can charge more for a double album

the triple album el mocambo is for similar reason i assume as well

There's a huge misconception that vinyl sounds better than CD (or whatever digital format) and record labels know that!

Add in the aspect of long player size artwork... hard core fans, interested casual fans and the odd collector paying for something that is just a CD only with noisy scratchy sounds... and the physical aspect of having to do something with it ie changing sides: plus it comes with a scarf, a special print and whatever - a bunch of cardboard.

OK so vinyl releases aren't brickwalled.

That's the biggest difference for a majority of vinyl releases in the past 20 years or whatever.

A huge misconception? First you should understand that everyone hears differently. It's simply wrong to infer that of others from one's own hearing.

Alone in the case of frequenzy range you can easily forget CDs in case you can hear higher frequenzies than most of the other people.

From my own point of hearing i'd say that the only thing that does justice to a record is a SACD. But sure, I'm not talking about scratched records played on a low-fi system.

As a broad issue ,Vinyl versus CD has always been a "swings and roundabouts" thing.

...but it's not the same as Vinyl Versus "Digital" per se.

Modern digital recording technology is now very good, but the CD format, foisted on us in early 80s, was never good enough to equal or improve on the LP as a domestic "HiFi" format for the reproduction of music.

For myself , It's always been and remains the old spiral scratch in a lump of black plastic.

I'm just thankful that, with the resurgence of vinyl in recent years, we can again buy most music on LP should we prefer to.

<Some like the pure crystal clean sound of cd>

CDs are also quantized and limited, as opposed to good vinyl releases and raw, high quality sound files.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 15:37 by DandelionPowderman.

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ProfessorWolf

no i agree with you modern vinyl release are basically cd's on vinyl

minus the brickwalling

that's why i pointed out that i enjoy collecting pre-digital mastering original vinyl releases instead of modern reissues except when it comes to things like tattoo you deluxe or goats head soup deluxe and likely the new stones album to get around the brickwalling (and because they look cool)

and my current setup uses a adc point 4 cartridge from 1964 (alternating with empire 880p 1961-62?, 888ve 1968? audio tecnica at-6 1963?) not a hi end cart but it makes tattoo you sound very nice to my ears compared to the cd thru headphones at high volume

but compared to the cd tons of detail are clearly missing (but who cares if it hurts to listen at length to the music at reasonable volume)

bur if i had something like this (with equal quality table, arm, receiver and speakers) i'd probably hear the missing detail plus some but likely not more then the cd since they are basically the same thing

but i wouldn't know maybe someone on here who has owned absurdly expensive hi end audio equipment can answer if it sounds better then cd (that is not modern vinyl but good condition vintage records) or if modern release that are digitally mastered sound as good or better

I think I might be able throw a little light on that for you Prof .

I do use high end vinyl playback equipment [not because I'm rich but because I used to work in the Hi Fi trade and because it means a lot to me ]

You can't really generalise about the quality of new vinyl releases but it's not fair to describe most as just a CD on vinyl".

Equally, it's not correct to say that vinyl releases aren't "brick walled" .

Many effectively are ... either because the digital master they're cut from is already compressed to hell or because the vinyl mastering engineer is just as misguided and aims only to cut the record as loud as he can to sound impressive on shoddy turntables !

But not all is doom and gloom [not the song] .

Modern flat Digital master recordings are very good and if mastered to vinyl with skill and care can make for good sounding LPs ...far better sounding than the equivalent CD .

The Abbey Road 1971 to 2016 boxed set is testament to that.

No, they're not as good as the original analogue pressings but they sound, far the most part, far better than most modern releases.

This because they're cut from the best available flat digital files, with minimal dynamic compression and by someone who knows what he's doing.

Spud,

Would you say that's the same case with the Abbey Road half-speed masters? Not just the Stones, but in general? I noticed Bob Marley's catalog seems to also have gotten this treatment, and they can be had for a much lower price per album than our boys.

Half speed mastering is not a huge deal in the wider context .

The main problem with modern LPs I think is that mastering to vinyl has been something of a dying art that needs to be re-learned.

This and the continuing trend to compress everything for a loud impressive sound via mediocre playback equipment... a case of catering for the lowest common denominator.

Edited to add.

In the old wholly analogue days, Half Speed Mastering was a bit of a curate's egg.

It improved high end resolution but could introduce compromises in the low bass.

Digital doesn't have the same issues with low end bandwidth as analogue tape...so half speed mastering from a good digital source should give it a greater overall advantage than when everything was analogue .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 16:10 by Spud.

So I guess my question is, do half-speed masters sound better than regular modern versions of the same record, ie are they closer to sounding like the originals?

Any sightings in LA yet?

- Any sightings in LA yet?

Good question.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-26 03:13 by bam.

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Bashlets
Any sightings in LA yet?

I was thinking the same thing!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 19:03 by KRiffhard.

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Witness

Quote
LorenzAgain
Of course there will be singles. Every artist does it that way, the album drops on Apple Music and Spotify, all tracks are greyed out except the first single. You can add the album to the library and you always get a notification once a new song drops. Some songs might get a digital EP release with a remix and a lyrics YouTube video… can’t wait!

But then let the singles come after, not before the album release. Then I and others may buy the singles to obtain extra new songs, not included in the album, that could feature on B-sides of singles.

Oh man I used to love buying the 45s and excited to see what the odd B-sides were

Quote
Rockman
....and release the single on 78 rpm ......

That'd really spin the crowd ........

My Moby Grape WOW album the last track on side A has to be played at 78.. No longer can play it cuz new turntable won’t, but it got me thinking: how difficult was it to press all those copies? Did they have to change something in the machinery after the first 4 songs and repress?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-25 19:31 by snoopy2.