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MelBelli
There was a ton of MTV coverage of Steel Wheels, both the album and tour. Mixed Emotions was a hit single. Voodoo Lounge ended up selling a decent amount of copies worldwide, and the tour was obviously a success, but that, to me, is where the decline in mainstream relevance began.
Initially, the shows were not automatic sellouts. I remember a Chuck Leavell quote in Rolling Stone: “the Stones are coming to town and I’m not going? Am I crazy?”
But it was a decline from a very high peak, and it has been a gentle, respectable decline.
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doitywoik
Have they done TV adds for albums before? (At least, in the US or UK?)
Only TV adds for albums I ever saw over here were for Schlager or rural pop albums (I don't think there are adequate English terms for these types of popular music), or maybe the Greatest Hits of the odd opera singer.
What I recall from ABB is that the whole album was streamed somewhere a week or so before it appeared in shops. (Can't recall where I got the info from, maybe even IORR or some other forum, or some mag/paper? Or the Stones' own mailing list?) Also can't recall any big advertising for B&L (but wasn't looking for it either.)
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MelBelli
There was a ton of MTV coverage of Steel Wheels, both the album and tour. Mixed Emotions was a hit single. Voodoo Lounge ended up selling a decent amount of copies worldwide, and the tour was obviously a success, but that, to me, is where the decline in mainstream relevance began.
Initially, the shows were not automatic sellouts. I remember a Chuck Leavell quote in Rolling Stone: “the Stones are coming to town and I’m not going? Am I crazy?”
But it was a decline from a very high peak, and it has been a gentle, respectable decline.
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doitywoikQuote
MelBelli
There was a ton of MTV coverage of Steel Wheels, both the album and tour. Mixed Emotions was a hit single. Voodoo Lounge ended up selling a decent amount of copies worldwide, and the tour was obviously a success, but that, to me, is where the decline in mainstream relevance began.
Initially, the shows were not automatic sellouts. I remember a Chuck Leavell quote in Rolling Stone: “the Stones are coming to town and I’m not going? Am I crazy?”
But it was a decline from a very high peak, and it has been a gentle, respectable decline.
My impression back then was that their mainstream relevance over here started to fade after the Summer tour of Europe in 1982. Of course Undercover was reviewed in the print media, but otherwise there wasn't much coverage (that I came to know of), nor any significant airplay, and the general focus had shifted to electropop and (German-language) New Wave.
I even felt like the New Wave of British Heavy Metal went to some extent under the radar in the early 80s, but then music mags were expensive and I bought one only occasionally, and you wouldn't hear that stuff on the radio anyway (rather in certain discos where "harder" stuff was played).
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Big AlQuote
GerardHennessyQuote
Big Al
A difference between the Chinese Democracy saga and the Stones' 'forthcoming' album, is that the former was heavily published and played-out in the music-press for a decade, whilst the Stones' situation hasn't. Yes, there's some publicity now, but generally, us Stones fanatics have been the lone wolves discussing it for years on end.
Well said, and on the money too, Big Al. Press comments about The Stones - other than in the better music press publications - has always been shallow, cliched and repetitive. In fact I frequently wonder if the regular press speak to The Stones at all? Much of what is written smells like a cut and paste job from interviews and press conferences that took place years and years ago. At least to me. 'We are working on new material...' 'It's all coming together really well...' 'We are excited about what we have got down so far...'
Everyone here has read this kind of tosh a hundred times and more. What saddens me about it all is that so few people have any REAL interest in The Stones now. I know that if they put on a concert at Twickenham or Wembley the usual 80,000 or so people will rock up. But I really wonder just how many of them actually CARE about the band? Is the entire affair just a kind of glorified karaoke evening? A couple of hours singing along to the usual warhorses, with occasional visits to the toilet or the bar when anything less-familiar is played?
Maybe I shouldn't care either? Just be happy the band can still stand upright and crank out the hits? After all it is what most of those in attendance want? Problem is, I do care. I have never boiled The Stones down to 30 or so songs. Or seen them as simply a stage show, where I need giant screens to see what is happening because I am so far away from the stage, surrounded by people yelling for Satisfaction from the first note played.
What has all this got to do with a new album? I guess it illustrates the indifference that any new material is likely to receive on release. All of us here will buy it. Discuss it. Criticise it constructively and debate its merits and demerits. And basically respect it. Given the small number of copies and downloads any material now needs to enter the charts, the album will probably hit the Top Five in its first week, and then disappear forever. Its tracks will probably never get played live. And if they were, they would simply empty vast swathes of whatever stadium The Stones were appearing in.
No wonder the band have not rushed to get anything out there!
You mention Twickenham and Wembley: well, it's so very true. I've known several folk who'll always make a point to catch them in London, whenever they're in town. It's pretty-much an event they attend without thought. It's just: 'oh, the Stones are back? We 'ought to go; could be the last time' These people have zero interest in their 'latter-day' music, let alone any future 'new' release. 40 Licks? Oh, of course: it's the only Stones CD they own!
I agree....but concerts have changed in general, it's not just about RS.Quote
doitywoik
Hairball is making some valid points/observations above. Of course I don't have the LA prspective but much of this seems to me to cary over to Europe. In 1976 the Stones played in Munich in a hall with a seating capacity of maybe 12000-15000, the setlist was dominated by their recent albums, the Stones still had that bad boys vibe, paired with a bit of glamour, and people who went to see them were Stones fans, or more generally rock fans, who wanted to see a good-to-exciting rock music concert. In 1982 the Stones played stadiums, the Vienna show was still dominated by recent material (then: SG, TY, SL), you had to be there early to get a good spot from where you could properly see them, there was still some (enough) of the bad boys vibe left, plus the novelty of a reportedly clean Keith. They had had some big hits like SMU and Miss you, and people who went there were Stones fans, or more generally rock fans, who wanted to see a good-to-exciting rock music concert. plus a new generation who hadn't sen them the last time around because they were too young then. Urban Jungle in 1990 was already a big change. That was when I had the impression that there weren't just Stones or generally rock fans but also people who wanted to see them once again, or once in their lives, younger and older people, and also the set list was to some extent a greatest hits show with little recent material. But a high level of musicianship and interesting versions of older songs. Also, although still in their infancy, video screens. In 1995 it felt like many people went there for seeing them once (or once again) as long as they can still perform properly, and you don't know if they will ever tour again.
The Licks show in 2002 was sort of surreal. This was when I persuaded my wife to come along for having seen them once in her life, first time seats and not the lawn, and giant video screens, and it felt like sitting in a cinema to watch the Stones perform. We were surrounded by people who obviously only waited for Satisfaction, and it all seemed like the kind of family affair that Hairball described. No more bad boys. And since then that hasn't really changed. Some want to hear Satisfaction, others SMU or HTW, and if they don't mess uo these songs they're happy. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but very different from the show in 1982. But then, times have changed and concerts are a very differen affair nowadays anyway.
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Doxa
Mainstream relevance? What that exactly is? Nothing to do with popularity I guess. VOODOO LOUNGE sold much better than STEEL WHEELS, and was one of their best selling albums ever, and the tour of the same title grossed much more than the previous one, and was the highest grossing tour for a long time. But if the point is 'What the kids are up to' The Stones lost the mainstream relevance somewhere around the early 70's. GOATS HEAD SOUP was totally 'old fart stuff' at the time. Surely it sold well, as did some totally irrelevant Elvis albums at the time. Actually since 1969 The Stones have not had a number one hit single at their home country. And since 1978 in America.
- Doxa
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doitywoikQuote
Doxa
Mainstream relevance? What that exactly is? Nothing to do with popularity I guess. VOODOO LOUNGE sold much better than STEEL WHEELS, and was one of their best selling albums ever, and the tour of the same title grossed much more than the previous one, and was the highest grossing tour for a long time. But if the point is 'What the kids are up to' The Stones lost the mainstream relevance somewhere around the early 70's. GOATS HEAD SOUP was totally 'old fart stuff' at the time. Surely it sold well, as did some totally irrelevant Elvis albums at the time. Actually since 1969 The Stones have not had a number one hit single at their home country. And since 1978 in America.
- Doxa
Depends of course on which perspective one adopts. One perspective might be, how relevant were they to the "average" (i.e., non-specialist, etc.) rock or pop listeners (which does not necessarily have to do with pure record sales figures.) For example, in my teens, which roughly cover the 70s, everybody who listened to rock or pop knew the Stones, and would also recognise them even if that listener didn't know the song. Dancing places had to play a couple of Stones songs every night, lest there be protests, even if side by side with Night Fever, Staying alive or some ABBA songs, or other hits of the day. Also at parties at someone's home, sooner or later some Stones would be played. That doesn't mean that everybody around there and then were superfans, it rather indicates that the Stones were part of the canon of/for people who listened to rock or pop music.
In my perception at least, this changed from the early 80s on, and other things became relevant for rock or pop listeners.
Public or intellectual discourse is yet another matter.
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doitywoik
I guess most "old" bands have multigenerational audiences today, and I see no evil in that. I could also imagine people having seen, say, Deep Purple back in 1971 or 1972 today take their grand kids along to a show.
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HairballQuote
Big AlQuote
GerardHennessyQuote
Big Al
A difference between the Chinese Democracy saga and the Stones' 'forthcoming' album, is that the former was heavily published and played-out in the music-press for a decade, whilst the Stones' situation hasn't. Yes, there's some publicity now, but generally, us Stones fanatics have been the lone wolves discussing it for years on end.
Well said, and on the money too, Big Al. Press comments about The Stones - other than in the better music press publications - has always been shallow, cliched and repetitive. In fact I frequently wonder if the regular press speak to The Stones at all? Much of what is written smells like a cut and paste job from interviews and press conferences that took place years and years ago. At least to me. 'We are working on new material...' 'It's all coming together really well...' 'We are excited about what we have got down so far...'
Everyone here has read this kind of tosh a hundred times and more. What saddens me about it all is that so few people have any REAL interest in The Stones now. I know that if they put on a concert at Twickenham or Wembley the usual 80,000 or so people will rock up. But I really wonder just how many of them actually CARE about the band? Is the entire affair just a kind of glorified karaoke evening? A couple of hours singing along to the usual warhorses, with occasional visits to the toilet or the bar when anything less-familiar is played?
Maybe I shouldn't care either? Just be happy the band can still stand upright and crank out the hits? After all it is what most of those in attendance want? Problem is, I do care. I have never boiled The Stones down to 30 or so songs. Or seen them as simply a stage show, where I need giant screens to see what is happening because I am so far away from the stage, surrounded by people yelling for Satisfaction from the first note played.
What has all this got to do with a new album? I guess it illustrates the indifference that any new material is likely to receive on release. All of us here will buy it. Discuss it. Criticise it constructively and debate its merits and demerits. And basically respect it. Given the small number of copies and downloads any material now needs to enter the charts, the album will probably hit the Top Five in its first week, and then disappear forever. Its tracks will probably never get played live. And if they were, they would simply empty vast swathes of whatever stadium The Stones were appearing in.
No wonder the band have not rushed to get anything out there!
You mention Twickenham and Wembley: well, it's so very true. I've known several folk who'll always make a point to catch them in London, whenever they're in town. It's pretty-much an event they attend without thought. It's just: 'oh, the Stones are back? We 'ought to go; could be the last time' These people have zero interest in their 'latter-day' music, let alone any future 'new' release. 40 Licks? Oh, of course: it's the only Stones CD they own!
It's been that way just about everywhere since at least the the Voodoo Lounge Tour, maybe even Steel Wheels. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry, along with their wives, girlfriends, moms, dads, children, grand children, great grand children, aunts and uncles, and distant relatives attend shows just for the sake of saying they saw the Stones. And then there's the celebrity element (especially in L.A.) - many of whom are attending just for the sake of being seen. I don't recall seeing any of that indifference during the 1981 tour where fans were mostly hardcore and dedicated, and there was still an element of danger. But since Steel Wheels and beyond, Stones shows in general have become like a friendly circus. Still "the greatest show on earth" perhaps, but a family friendly affair filled with many who really don't give a crap at all about the Stones and their history. As for the new album, we here are eagerly awaiting new music from the Stones, but in the big picture of the general public? Hardly anybody will give it much of a thought after a week or two. They just want to hear Start Me Up!
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Doxa
GOATS HEAD SOUP was totally 'old fart stuff' at the time. Surely it sold well, as did some totally irrelevant Elvis albums at the time. Actually since 1969 The Stones have not had a number one hit single at their home country. And since 1978 in America.
- Doxa
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Rocky Dijon
No, it was #2 for weeks held off by Christopher Cross with "Sailing."
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GerardHennessy
Hairball, I am turning into your greatest fan.
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frtylicks
It was “Private Eyes” by Hall & Oates that was #1 for 3 weeks that kept Start Me Up out of the top spot.
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Rocky DijonQuote
frtylicks
It was “Private Eyes” by Hall & Oates that was #1 for 3 weeks that kept Start Me Up out of the top spot.
I went back and looked. I was off a year. It wasn't "Sailing," it was "Best That You Can Do" by Christopher Cross at #1 with "Start Me Up" at #2 and then "Private Eyes" was #1 with "Start Me Up" still at #2. Thank you for the correction.
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TopiQuote
GerardHennessy
Hairball, I am turning into your greatest fan.
I thought Rockman was his greatest fan!
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frtylicks
It was “Private Eyes” by Hall & Oates that was #1 for 3 weeks that kept Start Me Up out of the top spot.
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GasLightStreet
TV commercials - certainly they'll have one for the new album!
GOATS HEAD SOUP
IORR
BLACK AND BLUE
TATTOO YOU (LOL probably not a TV ad!)
LET'S SPEND THE NIGHT TOGETHER trailer
REWIND (Netherlands I think)
DIRTY WORK
STEEL WHEELS tour
JUMP BACK
VOODOO LOUNGE tour
STRIPPED
FORTY LICKS (Tumbling Dice and Jumpin' Jack Flash are misspelled!)
2012 hits comp
LIVE IN TEXAS (not for TV?)
50 AND COUNTING
BLUE AND LONESOME
NO FILTER tour 2018
HONK
NO FILTER US tour most likely for 2019 (TV? Probably not)