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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-10 13:03 by Stoneage.

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Rockman
but you have Lavatory Lil ta get ya thru .... HHHHaaaaaaa

Let's just say we have this one, but "to get us through", eh, not exactly...

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Stoneage
It was better in the old days - the 80s and 90s - when they wrote lucrative contracts with the big record companies. Usually they signed up for 5 records.
They had to deliver in order to not lose their money or gain bad reputation. Without that pressure, well...

Yeah, we gotta have Sympathy For The Record Industry - say about them what you want, but some artists just don't seem to work without some contractual pressure...

Soon it will be time for this thread to be renamed 2023. Or maybe it should be 2024? Or even 2025?

Further back in the thread some wise contributor asked how difficult it would be to put together 12 or so tracks for a new album? A totally valid point. All this stuff about working on new material 'once we have had time to REALLY get it right' is tedious, disingenuous and thoughtless. And it is this dangling of possibilities that is so frustrating. Yes I know they will always be asked about new material - mainly by lazy, poorly prepared journalists - but why not simply tell the truth. It can be presented positively, constructively and realistically. And we can finally stop wishing and hoping against hope...

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GerardHennessy
Soon it will be time for this thread to be renamed 2023. Or maybe it should be 2024? Or even 2025?

Further back in the thread some wise contributor asked how difficult it would be to put together 12 or so tracks for a new album? A totally valid point. All this stuff about working on new material 'once we have had time to REALLY get it right' is tedious, disingenuous and thoughtless. And it is this dangling of possibilities that is so frustrating. Yes I know they will always be asked about new material - mainly by lazy, poorly prepared journalists - but why not simply tell the truth. It can be presented positively, constructively and realistically. And we can finally stop wishing and hoping against hope...

Yes.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I personally think they have the album done and will release it after the tour.

Once the tour is over they'll need to come up with something else to keep their names in the headlines.

Look how much press the Pink Floyd release got from one song and think how the press will go after the first Stones album in 17 years.

So let's say the material is in a more advanced stage than they're letting on, but they've decided not to release it until the band comes to an end when it stands the chance of having the biggest commercial impact. Plenty of artists late in life make the same decision with the support of their label, publisher, etc. No one broadcasts it to fans.

Alternatively, let's say the problem is Keith vetoing Mick's material. Mick has plenty of material ready to go that Keith thinks substandard or simply not Rolling Stones material. Mick is less than enamored with Keith's ideas. Mick and Matt finishing up Keith and Steve's "Living in a Ghost Town" being the exception. If the problem is they don't get along, but view broadcasting that to the press as counter-productive to a sometimes fragile truce that allows them to work together, they're not going to broadcast that to fans.

Both scenarios are purely speculation, but both present valid reasons to string people along. For now, think of the new album as the equivalent of Ronnie and Rod promising Faces reunions. They might want it on some level, but mainly it's used to ensure the press rinses and repeats. It generates a buzz outside of the latest set of tour dates.

Yep, it's hard to see the talk "new material", "new songs", "new album" since 2012 as little more than a "buzz". Except apparently in late 2015 when they DID try to work seriously on material and famously "hit the wall" and "saved face" with B&L.

"Mick and Matt finishing up Keith and Steve's "Living in a Ghost Town" being the exception"

Wait, what, did I miss something ?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Charlie Watts
Bill Wyman
Ian Stewart
Nicky Hopkins
Jimmy Miller
Billy Preston
Mick Taylor
Brian Jones,
Losing that little roster of talent may make life a bit more difficult.


Keith once said that Mick Taylor was a great guitarist and when he left the band “he found out the hard way that’s all he was “
Mick and Keith are now finding out the hard way that they are not and never were The Rolling Stones.
Good luck recreating that sound, the last try 17 years ago sounded like a bad copy of the Faces trying to be the Stones.I’m sure it hasn’t gotten any better.
They’ve recorded what in my opinion is the greatest collection of songs ever. It’s really to late to go back and add to it.

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gotdablouse
"Mick and Matt finishing up Keith and Steve's "Living in a Ghost Town" being the exception"

Wait, what, did I miss something ?

Mick said he and Keith worked up "Living in a Ghost Town" with their friend Steve in 2019. We know Mick and Keith did a session at Germano Studios in 2019. The track was worked on with the entire band and Don Was in L.A. Mick and Matt then completed the song in 2020. Note Matt's credits as a musician/arranger/co-producer.

You make a very very good point indeed. That it may be too late now to add to what has gone before.

Behind all the frustrating hints and vague suggestions that 'we are working on stuff that we need to finalise..' are the facts and realities of the current situation. The band members are getting older. Their creative energy will not flow as quickly as it once did. There appears to be a difference of opinion between Keith and Mick about musical direction. The band are focusing on non-studio activities - specifically touring and live performance. Any time outside of performing is taken up with preparing material in the vaults for release. This might be old concert recordings or unreleased studio material used to embellish anniversary box sets. And of course Keith has been refreshing and upgrading some of his solo material such as the Main Offender re-release.

With all of that going on, and with Charlie's death still fresh in the mind of everyone, it is hardly surprising that a new album has slipped a long way down the list of priorities. And a further sad, but unavoidable, reality is that any new album will not sell in huge quantities. Certainly not enough to earn a long chart life, or in sufficient numbers to warrant a large investment in time and effort by a group of veteran musicians. It will sell fairly well in the first couple of weeks and then disappear without trace.

And that, if it happens, will be a real shame!

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Rocky Dijon

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gotdablouse
"Mick and Matt finishing up Keith and Steve's "Living in a Ghost Town" being the exception"

Wait, what, did I miss something ?

Mick said he and Keith worked up "Living in a Ghost Town" with their friend Steve in 2019. We know Mick and Keith did a session at Germano Studios in 2019. The track was worked on with the entire band and Don Was in L.A. Mick and Matt then completed the song in 2020. Note Matt's credits as a musician/arranger/co-producer.

Seemingly initially the song was Mick's (from timeisonourside.com):

It’s a strange thing, you know what I mean? But it’s just something that happens between Mick and me without us having to really think about it. Mick had come up with a song and we recorded it over a year ago, I think last February (2019) in LA. It’s sort of eerie when suddenly it’s coming to life, I mean the ghost comes to life. Mick and I have been in touch, but obviously only via the satellite. I had said to Don (Was) about a month or so ago, I said, Hey, this is a time for the ghost town track. And then Mick called me and said the same thing and that great minds think alike. And he said, Yeah I need to fix some of the lyrics or the vocal. So we sort of did it from outer space. But I actually liked the way it turned out.
- Keith Richards, April 2020

- Doxa

Also from timeinonourside.com

"We played this song just Keith and myself and a friend of ours, Steve. We routined it together after I'd done it and we worked some parts out. And then we went and recorded it with the band. Then last week I redid the vocals for this. And it’s just open to your own interpretation to a certain extent of course. But yeah, no, it was a little strange because the original was so much apropos of the times we were living through already."
- Mick Jagger, April 2020

"It was part of a group of songs we’d recorded quite recently. It just seemed to fit the times. When I went back to my lyric book and looked at it, it was a song about being a ghost after a plague. Obviously I threw in a few more current lines, and then redid some of the vocals and I redid bits of my guitar and stuff."
- Mick Jagger, August 2020

Keyboards: Matt Clifford
Saxophone: Matt Clifford
French horn: Matt Clifford
Flugelhorn: Matt Clifford

Producers: Don Was, Matt Clifford & The Glimmer Twins
Chief engineers: Krish Sharma & Matt Clifford

Mick came up with SFTD, Brown Sugar and Miss You.

It's easy to say 'Oh that's a Mick song' post 1984.

There were plenty of 'Oh that's a Mick song' prior.

Is Ghost more of a Mick song? Sure. So is Brown Sugar.

"It was part of a group of songs we’d recorded quite recently.
It just seemed to fit the times. When I went back to my lyric book
and looked at it, it was a song about being a ghost after a plague.
Obviously I threw in a few more current lines, and then redid some
of the vocals and I redid bits of my guitar and stuff."
- Mick Jagger, August 2020

Wanna hear this one .........



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
"It was part of a group of songs we’d recorded quite recently.
It just seemed to fit the times. When I went back to my lyric book
and looked at it, it was a song about being a ghost after a plague.
Obviously I threw in a few more current lines, and then redid some
of the vocals and I redid bits of my guitar and stuff."
- Mick Jagger, August 2020

Wanna hear this one .........

Methinks you have

Rod

Yup. It was the released version, revised from the older one he had.

~"Love is Strong"~

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Rocky Dijon

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gotdablouse
"Mick and Matt finishing up Keith and Steve's "Living in a Ghost Town" being the exception"

Wait, what, did I miss something ?

Mick said he and Keith worked up "Living in a Ghost Town" with their friend Steve in 2019. We know Mick and Keith did a session at Germano Studios in 2019. The track was worked on with the entire band and Don Was in L.A. Mick and Matt then completed the song in 2020. Note Matt's credits as a musician/arranger/co-producer.

Ok but what made me do a double-take is that your post asserts that it was originally a Keith and Steve song, like say "Almost Hear You Sigh", and there's certainly no evidence of this.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Correct. I definitely asserted it was an idea Keith was working up with Steve that ended up being finished by Mick and Matt.

As always, there's belief and there's proof.

To me it looks like "Living In A Ghost Town" is closest to the song we can call a real 'Jagger-Richards' colloboration. Although the song idea initially was Mick's, they worked the song together, not that it was, say, Mick's demo with a full written tune into which Keith just added some touch. I think that it was what Keith means by him sitting down with Mick and writing songs together (this time the initial idea was Mick's, but it could be other way round, too). That was something Keith years ago was asking in public, and seemingly he got his will through: Mick has okayed it and every tune released under The Rolling Stones name will be a real Jagger/Richards colloboration. Probably that also is one reason why making this album has taken so long.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-15 20:32 by Doxa.

ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

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Taylor1
ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

That's true. But seemingly when Mick and Keith are 'writing' songs together, it is Mick traveling to New York or somewhere near Keith happens to be. Mostly they are oceans apart. Clifford almost looks like living with Mick...

- Doxa

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Taylor1
ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

And the results of all that speaks for itself...most of it is inferior and completely forgettable imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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Taylor1
ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

And the results of all that speaks for itself...most of it is inferior and completely forgettable imo.

Now, that was a surprising opinion 'imo'. Great to know.

The thing with being an artist is that one can not always please everyone with the results.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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Hairball

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Taylor1
ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

And the results of all that speaks for itself...most of it is inferior and completely forgettable imo.

Now, that was a surprising opinion 'imo'. Great to know.

The thing with being an artist is that one can not always please everyone with the results.

- Doxa

25 years? That seems like a long time to sum up what little he's done.

GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY 2001
ALFIE 2004
SUPERHEAVY 2011

9 singles.

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GasLightStreet

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Doxa

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Hairball

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Taylor1
ij the last 25 years, Mick has corroborated more on writing songs with people like Dave Stewart and Matt Clifford than with Keith

And the results of all that speaks for itself...most of it is inferior and completely forgettable imo.

Now, that was a surprising opinion 'imo'. Great to know.

The thing with being an artist is that one can not always please everyone with the results.

- Doxa

25 years? That seems like a long time to sum up what little he's done.

GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY 2001
ALFIE 2004
SUPERHEAVY 2011

9 singles.

Seemingly A BIGGER BANG and the rest Stones stuff is so forgettable that it doesn't count at all.. (I've heard that Mick also have had a hand in creating that stuff).

But true that there've not been that much releases 'lately' - that also is one bitch about being an artist, and not, say, factory...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-16 09:21 by Doxa.

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Rocky Dijon
Correct. I definitely asserted it was an idea Keith was working up with Steve that ended up being finished by Mick and Matt.

As always, there's belief and there's proof.

Ok, since you've shared some "litte circulated" info in the past it could be assumed you also had some here given the way it was written, an "I think" would have avoided this.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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GasLightStreet
Mick came up with SFTD, Brown Sugar and Miss You.

It's easy to say 'Oh that's a Mick song' post 1984.

There were plenty of 'Oh that's a Mick song' prior.

Is Ghost more of a Mick song? Sure. So is Brown Sugar.

Many many others.Salt of the Earth, You Can’t Always Get What Want, Dead Flowers,Winter,Star Star,Respectable, Some Girls,Moonlight Mile and others were written by Mick without Keith.I believe Mick wrote all of side one of Some Girls with Keith throwing in a riff or two. Mick is an underrated great writer



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-16 15:53 by Taylor1.

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gotdablouse

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Rocky Dijon
Correct. I definitely asserted it was an idea Keith was working up with Steve that ended up being finished by Mick and Matt.

As always, there's belief and there's proof.

Ok, since you've shared some "litte circulated" info in the past it could be assumed you also had some here given the way it was written, an "I think" would have avoided this.

Gosh, it's not like I said pre-order or anything. Kidding aside, I did hear that the song started out as a Keith song he was working up with Steve (no credit). Keith often starts out playing covers and seeing where it takes him musically and lyrically. In this case, I think you could make an educated guess that the idea started with The Specials. He didn't break any laws doing it, but they're similar enough by title and genre to say there is a shared lineage.

I've heard (as I'm sure others have) that Keith and Steve did work on some "finished" Mick and Matt ideas to try to make them more Stones-ish. I don't think we've heard any of those yet. Mick might have had a separate idea, the plague ghost, that was melded into Keith's song, but "Ghost Town" is a song Keith apparently sees as "his" though Mick wrote the verses or adapted them from an earlier unreleased song. I look at the credits that show Matt's fingerprints all over the track and no mention of Steve. To me, that points to Mick and Matt finishing up the track together after COVID hit.

Does this make it Jagger-Richards? Sure it does. It also seems to be a rare song in recent years that Keith feels he initiated.

That's if you believe this as opposed to taking quotes as gospel.

As for Doxa's remark above, I do believe Matt lives with Mick part of the time. Matt has a family. Mick owns a great deal of property. Having a close friend and creative partner live on your property when you're very wealthy with large homes isn't all that uncommon. I like to pick on Matt, but I believe what I said just there is fair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-16 17:43 by Rocky Dijon.

This album is gonna be high on reggae.Maybe they can unearth some unheard collaborations with Peter Tosh circa 78,and some of Keef's stuff with the Upsetter.Let's do this thing right.