They won't have the balls to play it.
Mick already is making excuses for the song.


"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

Yeah, right, Manhattan...
"you guys are bitchin' about political issues that won't be solved in many years. Grow up and get a f ucking grip"
and
-
next line -
: "keep in mind that the US is the number one nation in the goddamned world regarding military and political powers."

Great thinking!




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-22 00:23 by Baboon Bro.

Bärs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. The natives of Gaza is actually the jews
> (except for those living there before the jews.
> But we don't know about any relatives to them
> today). The jews had been living there for quite a
> long time before the arabs came, forcing their
> religion on people or killing them outright.
>
> 2. Their are no palestinian people. It's a
> propaganda term from the seventies. They are
> arabs, nothing more nothing less.
>
> 3. The poor situation of the "palestinians" is due
> to their terrorist leadership and because the
> neighbouring arab countries have kept them in
> camps. When dickhead Arafat is gone things might
> change. Now when his friend Saddam is behind bars
> thanks to George W Bush, things might look even
> better.
>
> 4. The "murky" pre-1967 history has everything to
> do with the conflict today.
>


When you say "the natives of the Gaza is actually the jews..." Are you referring to the Sephardic Jews who can trace their ancestory to the land of Israel, or are you referring to the Ashkenazim Jews who are descendants of the Khazars, a Turko-Russian Tribe from what is today the Ukraine. The Khazars converted to judaism in the 8th century AD.

If I converted to judaism today, would I have an ancestral claim to live in Palestinian land ? Since the Khazars converted in the Ukraine around 800AD, what gives them such a claim to Palestinian land ?

And to say that "there's no such thing as a Palestinian, they are Arab nothing more or less" is just geographically ridiculous because arab territories cover from Morocco on the West to the Iraq/Iran border on the east. ... so I guess that means that a Moroccan Arab is identical to an Iraqi Arab in your anthropological view.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-08-22 00:25 by CreedenceLives.

1. "Street Fighting Man" has been the first real political song they did and they've performed it heavily since 1969 (Vietnam War!)!

2. "Sympathy For The Devil" - political themes as well. heavily performed...

3. "Highwire" - no tour to perform this studio gem....

4. "Sweet Neo-Con" - maybe they'll play it live later during tour, but definitly not the first shows, but.... not for political reasons....

The Stones don't care of political correctness or incorrectness .... they live, see and make music about that ... as you and me would do so ... they don't care about .... THEY ROCK !!!!!!



Truth is stranger than fiction

stoned greetings
G. The Cock

Bars

There`s a lot of nations without countries, do you want to give them a part of your land? What about " the thirdclass people" in us, If you fight for the sioux, the hopi, the apache, the nez-perce, the navaho and the other 100 of nations you can find there and give them their own land and rights I will be impressed. But you don`t care, do you. There is always 2 or more sides of a history. Don`t choose only one side.

It doesn't matter which ethnic jewish branch you're talking about. There are many. The point is that jews have been living there continually for over 3000 years. As I said, a bit longer than the arabs. The fact that jews migrated to e.g. USA and Ottoman empire doesn't change anything.

Yes Tussler, I care. I care so much that I would like to expel the whole european population and give the continent back to those tribes who lived here before the indo-europeans came.

La FORUM is surely a sweet neocon...

Bärs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't matter which ethnic jewish branch
> you're talking about. There are many. The point is
> that jews have been living there continually for
> over 3000 years. As I said, a bit longer than the
> arabs. The fact that jews migrated to e.g. USA and
> Ottoman empire doesn't change anything.


It really matters greatly.

You see the Khazarian Jews NEVER lived in Israel... they descended from the Khazarian conversion in the Ukraine which occured in the 8th Century AD.

As much as 80% of the world's jews are descended NOT from Israel, but from the Khazarian conversion.

Again, if I convert to judaism tomorrow, does that give me the right to claim Palestinian lands as my ancestral homeland ??

If you're not familiar with this, you might start your education at www.Khazaria.com

I personally support recognition of the 1967 borders between a jewish israel and an arab palestine. I also support rights of arabs to live in israel and jews to live in palestine.

Great! They have lived there in 20000 years. So you would give away us to the naitive unless you have to expel around 290 million people. I did hope you could read between the lines and understand that there`s a lot of nations who got similar problems. Don`t focus at only one nation.
Ps. if you have to live you are welcome to my land. Maybe we could take a couples of bears and listen to Stones

Do bears like The Stones music?

ROCKMAN

Dear Bärs
The issue here isnt who came up first to a land and then for a reason or another (in the jewish case was the Roman empire who force them to Diaspora)In that case we all to move around, but the situation nowadays is unaceptable for any human standards!!according to the Uncef Gazza is one the areas were are more starving people by square meter!!
And dont come with terrorists leadership from Arafat!! What was Irgun , Stern gang, And the Haganah?? and how about the Khan group? Menahem Begin was wanted dead or alive by the Bristish by terrorism with an reward of 50.000 pounds?? And didnt he became prime minister?? Ariel Sharon was a member of Haganah since he was 14 years old?? Why was the autobiography of Isaac Rabin censored in Israel, in the chapters were he writes about this??what was the massacre of Der Yassin in 1948, Sabra and Chatilla??I Understand both sides with their arguments, but I dont understand and dont accept is the violence from both sides

You never know. Please exuse my poor english. How do you write the common word for pilsner, budweiser,guinnes, murphys, brown ale.....

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do bears like The Stones music?
>
> ROCKMAN

Takin two bears, a bucket of beer & then we´re on...
Bears dancin & beers foamin.
Bartenders smilin, dull; coyote´s groanin.
etc

Or speakin of other animals & Budweiser-ad´s; check on this!

[www.advertisementave.com]

Creedence, You seem to belong to those who by spreading lies and myths try to take away the jewishness from the jews. Yes, there are those people and their motives are, to say the least, "murky". With your 80 % theory you fit nicely in that camp. Is that what you want?

Bärs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Creedence, You seem to belong to those who by
> spreading lies and myths try to take away the
> jewishness from the jews. Yes, there are those
> people and their motives are, to say the least,
> "murky". With your 80 % theory you fit nicely in
> that camp. Is that what you want?
>
>


Bars... what did I say that was "a lie or a myth"...

That's EXACTLY the kind of histrionic nonsense that has us in the IRaq War... neo-con histrionics like: 1) They can hit the U.S. East Coast in 45 minutes 2) The next cloud might be a mushroom cloud 3) We know where the weapons are, they're around Tikrit... and on and on...

if you're interested in LIES then just check out virtually EVERYTHING THE NEO-CONS SAID !! One Lie after the other...

And you completely avoid the point of my post... you claim that "the Jews" originated in Israel and have been there for 3,000 years. My simple point was that the Ashkenazim, which represent up to 80% of the jews DID NOT ORIGINATE IN ISRAEL, they didn't "diaspora" from there or anything else... they came from the conversion of the Khazar Kingdom of the Ukraine in the 8th Century...

Now that's just a FACT, not a LIE...

SO, your claim that they have the right to "re-occupy" the "land of their origins" and DISPLACE NATIVE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE because they "came" from Gaza and other Palestinian lands is just vacuous.

Again, I support the 1967 borders, the right of a jewish Israel to live in peace behind the 1967 borders alongside a Palestinian state based on those borders... I support the rights of jews to live in neighboring countries in peace (like they did in Iraq under Saddam Hussein), and for citizen arabs to live in israel like they have for thousands of years...

WHAT DO YOU SUPPORT ?? Or will you just continue to avoid the topics and call what I have to say "lies and myths"...

Dear Riffbuk,

We're talking about the situation today, and you come up with Haganah and Irgun?

Once again, the situation for the palestinians is only to blame on their own leaders and the arab countries. Israel has been willing to seek peace all the time.

What if the arab countries wouldn't have attacked Israel in 1948? Would we have all these refugees then? What if the arab countries wouldn't have attacked Israel in 1967? Would it have been a military administration on the West bank then? Why have the refugees not been allowed to assimilate and integrate by their fellow arabs, but kept in camps?

The problem is, Creedence, that your "simple point" is wrong. It's that easy. You have to do some reading on the subject.

What I support? I support of course the complete democratization, liberalization, secularization and modernization of the entire retarded arab and muslim world. Simply put, I wait for the Stones do a show in Mecca.

Bärs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Riffbuk,
>
> We're talking about the situation today, and you
> come up with Haganah and Irgun?
>
> Once again, the situation for the palestinians is
> only to blame on their own leaders and the arab
> countries. Israel has been willing to seek peace
> all the time.
>
> What if the arab countries wouldn't have attacked
> Israel in 1948? Would we have all these refugees
> then? What if the arab countries wouldn't have
> attacked Israel in 1967? Would it have been a
> military administration on the West bank then? Why
> have the refugees not been allowed to assimilate
> and integrate by their fellow arabs, but kept in
> camps?


As for Israel willing to "seek peace all the time"...

I'd remind you that Arafat SIGNED the Madrid Accords, the Oslo Accord, the Taba Accord, the Zinni Plan, the Mitchell Plan, ad nauseum...

NONE of those Peace accords was supported by the Israeli right wing (Likud and other parties) and specifically weren't supported by Sharon, or Netanyahu...

AND that Prime Minister Yitshak Rabin was ASSASSINATED by a person opposing peace and the abandonment of colonial Israeli settlements in internationally recognized Palestinian territories...

SO, tell me how "Israel has always sought peace... " ??

I note that you keep avoiding the key questions regarding the conflict.

You recommended khazaria.com. Why not? There we can read among other things the following about the genetic origin of the present day jews:

"Key findings:

The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.
Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).
Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
Georgian Jews (Gruzim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
Libyan Jews are mainly Berbers.
Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite."

SeNdEr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reptile Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here we go again with the political
> discussions!
>
> Whats the problem???

I though bv closed the last thread about politics...

Im sweet but no Im not sure im a neocon. Please describe what a neocon is;

"A necocon is...




Arafat signed shit. He lied lied and lied. Don't believe the modern political, yes political, history of the Palestinans. Israel is not to blame for their situation. In Europe we want Israel (Jews) to be responsible because of our own tradition of antisemitism (and it didnt die after the Holocaust - it changed form thats all). Bringing up Irgun is just pathetic. At that point Israel was new, arabs prepared to burn Israel and Europe wasnt really a safe haven. The arabs who lived in Palestine were not many in the 19th century and most of them lived under very poor conditions, often in holes in the ground. Some of the live in Israel today. Not in holes though. And they will never move to Palestine by the way. Why would they want to go back to clan society and Islamism?

Bärs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I note that you keep avoiding the key questions
> regarding the conflict.
>
> You recommended khazaria.com. Why not? There we
> can read among other things the following about
> the genetic origin of the present day jews:
>
> "Key findings:
>
> The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and
> Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and
> Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews),
> Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim
> (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish
> populations of the world is Israelite. The
> Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and
> E.
> Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from
> European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The
> non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically
> Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern
> European).
> Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from
> northwestern Europeans.
> Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from
> various non-Israelite peoples.
> Georgian Jews (Gruzim) are a mix of Georgians and
> Israelites.
> Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite
> Arabs and Israelites.
> Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews
> are mainly Israelites.
> Libyan Jews are mainly Berbers.
> Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian,
> with little or no Israelite ancestry.
> Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite."


And so you do support an Israel behind the 1967 borders or not ... ?

What's the point of writing a song and put it in an album if it is not to perform it live? What a waste of time, and place in the album. They could have written something else and put another song instead of NeoCon.

My point is that Israel is the only country who can win wars that the Rougue Arabstates and Palestinians start and still loose. It doesnt matter what Israel does - the world wants Israel to be destroyed and Jews to be skeletons in camps where we can feel sorry for "them". Noone gave a damn about the millions (?) killed in Lebanon before Israel decided to respond to the rocket attacks from peacelover Arafat and when Sharon didnt interfere and risk Israeli lives to save the Moslims in Sabra we had a second com.. sorry christmas in Sweden. Finally something to really hate Jews for. Again. What a relief. And so we compared Jews to nazis. The Holocuast was no worse that Sabra and Begin was @#$%& etc etc. Remember? Europe should really thank the Palesitinas, and well, in a way we do by giving them money. We dont have to kill Israelis, the Arabs already do it. Now thats racism isnt it? And dontpretend for a second that we love Palestinians more than Pakistanis. We just hate Israel.

LA FORUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is that Israel is the only country who
> can win wars that the Rougue Arabstates and
> Palestinians start and still loose. It doesnt
> matter what Israel does - the world wants Israel
> to be destroyed and Jews to be skeletons in camps
> where we can feel sorry for "them". Noone gave a
> damn about the millions (?) killed in Lebanon
> before Israel decided to respond to the rocket
> attacks from peacelover Arafat and when Sharon
> didnt interfere and risk Israeli lives to save the
> Moslims in Sabra we had a second com.. sorry
> christmas in Sweden. Finally something to really
> hate Jews for. Again. What a relief. And so we
> compared Jews to nazis. The Holocuast was no worse
> that Sabra and Begin was @#$%& etc etc. Remember?
> Europe should really thank the Palesitinas, and
> well, in a way we do by giving them money. We dont
> have to kill Israelis, the Arabs already do it.
> Now thats racism isnt it? And dontpretend for a
> second that we love Palestinians more than
> Pakistanis. We just hate Israel.
>
>
>
> and Ay ay baby it hurts


Question for you, LA... do you find ANY FAULT with Israeli policy ?? Or do you consider the entire Mess of the Israeli-Palestinian situation to be entirely blamed on the native people ??

Discussions of Israel always seem to end up with references to Nazi's and the Holocaust, etc. rather than squarely facing the situation on the ground and asking what is the most MORAL POSITION to take regarding this mess, what situation is in the interest of the majority of the AMERICAN PEOPLE, not the interests of colonial settlers....

.... and the answer I come up with is a peaceful Israel BEHIND the 1967 borders, at peace with a Palestinian neighbor also behind 1967 borders, with rights for native citizen arabs in Israel and rights for Jews who choose to live in the Palestinian state...

NOW, what the &^%%$$ do you support ?? Is it right to ask AMERICAN TAXPAYERS, the overwhelming number of which aren't Jews to support with american money, prestige and weapons, colonial settlements by Jews in the 21st Century ??

hi1
The fact they are touring in their mid-60´s are News enuff in itself.
I´m sure they save Sweet Neo Con for the hotter areas in the mid-West or deep deep down in Texas.
Someone said the Stones dont like to provoke?
Well, if you did think so, go back check on their first years...

Native people? Do you mean the native Jews or Arabs? I blame the situation on the Arab countries who used the Palestians and I blame it on Europe who feeds the Palestinians with false hopes and I blame it on the UN who lets shitcountries like the Arabstates make decisions in the name of peace. I support a two-state solution just like the Israelis but we both know that the Palestine we would like to see most likely wont be. Hamas has other plans and so does the PLO. Arafat always wanted a Palestine on Israel. Later on he used the so called refugees as a weapon. Not the Jewish refugees from the Arabcountries but the arabs who fled/left during the first Arab war against Israel. At the same time millions fled different conflicts all over the world but thats not interesting cause Israel couldnt be blamed for that. The refugees are dead oir very old but they are the only people in the world who still are considered refugees for political reasons. And they are fooled with leftwing crap about how they have rights to move inside Israel although Israel just like any other country has the right tp decide their number of immigrants. Its just a new way of creating a Palestine in Israel nothing else. Thats colonialism only this time Europeans - except for the ISM organisation - don't put their dirty foot in the soil. We want others to do our dirty work in Europe. Unlike in the US when presidents have to risk a whole lot more when trying to create a safer world. Europe hasnt done anything for anyone.

Tussler, plese forgive me and Brother Rockman.
I´m dead famous for hitting the wrong types at
my computer keyboards; that could have been me with beer/bear.

In these days of bashing setlists and solving the Gaza-stripe-
issue as well as the central Middle East dilemmas & in the tension
of our band debuting on the world tour, we have to crack some jokes sometimes.
Hope you dont take any offense.

In my town you actually can grab - but you better be careful... ! - a real, furry, lethal bear (the animal); cause on of ´em is dwelling just outside the dense part of the town´s South-East parts (which would be not far away from me as the town has only 27,000 inhabitants...).
- Our logo is the beaver (still speaking animals here).

LA FORUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Native people? Do you mean the native Jews or
> Arabs?

I personally don't consider an Israeli "settler" from Russia to be a native person in Israel, do you ??? Nor does the vast majority of the world...


I blame the situation on the Arab countries
> who used the Palestians and I blame it on Europe
> who feeds the Palestinians with false hopes and I
> blame it on the UN who lets shitcountries like the
> Arabstates make decisions in the name of peace.

This is an incredible rant... it's the kind of malarky that the American taxpayer is marinated in morning noon and night...

What you're saying is that: 1) Israel has done everything right, everything moral, and that EVERYONE ELSE, including the arabs, the Palestinians, the U.N., the Europeans are the bad people...

But Israel has squeaky clean hands, even though, as one small example, 5000 Israeli settlers in Gaza held 1.5 million native palestinian arabs in a virtual open-air prison that ex PM Shimon Peres called "immoral", Ben Wedeman of CNN called "draconian", and Thomas Friedman of the New York Times called "insane"... but youre' telling us that these 3 people have it all wrong... that Israel is squeaky clean in the whole matter and the blame is on everyone else's doorstep


I
> support a two-state solution just like the
> Israelis but we both know that the Palestine we
> would like to see most likely wont be. Hamas has
> other plans and so does the PLO.

Hamas on numerous occasions has offered Sharon a cease-fire and he's refused. Hamas existed under Rabin and Arafat also, and there were almost no attacks on Jews either inside Israel or in the territories during those periods... BECAUSE THERE WAS PROGRESS TOWARDS THE 1967 BORDERS !!! If Hamas was so dedicated to the destruction of Israel inside the '67 borders they could have attacked at any time during this period... they didn't.

I'm not saying the PLO or Hamas or any of those other organizations are choir boys... they are quite militant... and the world doesn't support any of their terror initiatives any more than it supports Israeli colonialism...


Arafat always
> wanted a Palestine on Israel. Later on he used the
> so called refugees as a weapon.

Arafat SIGNED every major agreement RECOGNIZING ISRAEL!!! Madrid, Oslo, Taba, Mitchell, Zinni... he received the Nobel Prize along with Rabin for agreeing to peace alongside the 67 borders



Not the Jewish
> refugees from the Arabcountries but the arabs who
> fled/left during the first Arab war against
> Israel. At the same time millions fled different
> conflicts all over the world but thats not
> interesting cause Israel couldnt be blamed for
> that.



The refugees are dead oir very old but they
> are the only people in the world who still are
> considered refugees for political reasons.


Just the opposite... theres a "baby boom" in the Palestinian areas... it's a major demographic problem for israel, actually...


And
> they are fooled with leftwing crap about how they
> have rights to move inside Israel although Israel
> just like any other country has the right tp
> decide their number of immigrants.


This is a "final agreement" issue, but nobody expects a "right of return" to be part of the final deal.


Its just a new
> way of creating a Palestine in Israel nothing
> else.

This is an excuse not to do anything. It's not in the American people's interest to support no progress AND Israeli colonial expansion... do you think ???



Thats colonialism only this time Europeans -
> except for the ISM organisation - don't put their
> dirty foot in the soil. We want others to do our
> dirty work in Europe. Unlike in the US when
> presidents have to risk a whole lot more when
> trying to create a safer world. Europe hasnt done
> anything for anyone.

Europe hasn't done anythhing for anyone... that's so histrionic as to be ridiculous... it's full of a hateful sentiment towards white european people... probably because they don't support Israeli colonial settlement expansion in the 21st Century...



>
>
>
>
>
> and Ay ay baby it hurts