Someone else should email mesa too. I got a reply from a kris.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-04 13:10 by Mathijs.

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Naturalust

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DancelittleSister

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Naturalust

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DancelittleSister
You are correct, and Taylor using Wood's spare Boogie MKIIB Coloseum amp through 4*12 Boogie cab. I just wonder if the MKI or MKII combo on that picture was Taylor's amp from the Alvin Lee tour or another spare amp from the Stones.

Looks to me like the speaker grill on Taylor's amp that he used with Alvin Lee was a bit different. There certainly were several options on those early Boogies, they were experimenting with many features so I doubt without more information that we will be able to nail it down any better than the people at Mesa Engineering did when they said the model was indeterminate from the picture.

Perhaps Mathijs can give us a bit of background for his assertion that it was a mkI. I was able to find one picture of a 7 knob, 4 switch Boogie that claims it is a mkI from 1978.

To me both the picture posted with the Stones and Tayor's are not good enough to compare the grill, the resolution / and reflection of light coming from the mike standard could mislead us, lol, a James Bond thing. What's your claim the one you posted could be a MKI?

As far as that Stones picture is concerned it's nothing but a guessing game unless someone comes up with the source i.e book in which it is described precisely whether it's an MKI or MKII.

Yes perhaps you are right but those blond woven grills were pretty stand out. The picture with Taylor appears to be that type of grill to me.

The picture I posted of the possible 1978 MKI with 7 knobs and 4 switches is just one I found using a Google image search which identified it as a MKI and it very well could be a MKIIA similar to the one below (notice this one has 8 knobs).

This is a MKII. A or B is impossible to say with if you only see the front panel.

This is a wide panel MKI:



And here you see the differences between the MKI and MKII



Both MKI and MKII amps are available in narrow and wide cabinets. Most wide cabinet amps have 15" speakers, but not all. There's quite a few pro players who prefered a wide cabinet with a 12" speaker. The EQ, missing on the amps in the second picture, was not standard but could be ordered.

The only real way to distinguish between MKI, MKI and MKIII amps from a distance is:

1) 6 controls, 3 switches, narrow cabinet, or 7 controls, 4 switches, wide cabinet: MKI.
7 controls, 3 switches, narrow cabinet, or 8 controls, 4 switches, wide cabinet: MKII
2) by the lettering above the controls. MKI amps only have lettering above the Volume 1, Volume 2 and Master. MKII amps have lettering above Volume 1 and Treble, and then Master 1, Lead Drive and Master.

Mathijs

Unfortunately I cannot see any lettering at all on the initial picture, so from the posted pic it's impossible to tell what amp we are dealing with.

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DancelittleSister
Unfortunately I cannot see any lettering at all on the initial picture, so from the posted pic it's impossible to tell what amp we are dealing with.

You totally miss the point. The picture clearly shows a 7 knob wide panel 15" speaker amp.

Now please do the math.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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DancelittleSister
Unfortunately I cannot see any lettering at all on the initial picture, so from the posted pic it's impossible to tell what amp we are dealing with.

You totally miss the point. The picture clearly shows a 7 knob wide panel 15" speaker amp.

Now please do the math.

Mathijs

? The first thing I saw was it looked like a 15"speaker, so it must have a wide cabinet. According to the 7 knobs in the front it could be either an MK1 or an MKII. Cannot see any switches. What has the wide panel to do with it, I cannot do any elementary maths with that new variable you bring up here, at least it's not to be seen on that picture?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-02 23:59 by DancelittleSister.

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DancelittleSister
? The first thing I saw was it looked like a 15"speaker, so it must have a wide cabinet. According to the 7 knobs in the front it could be either an MK1 or an MKII. Cannot see any switches. What has the wide panel to do with it, I cannot do any elementary maths with that new variable you bring up here, at least it's not to be seen on that picture?

I think what Mathijs is trying to say is that if it was a MKII wide cabinet it would always have 8 knobs on it. I have no idea if that's a rule of thumb of not, there are certainly pictures of MKII wide cabinets with 8 knobs, one of which I posted on this thread.

I assume there might have been variation on the configurations made back then as things were changing pretty rapidly and the possibility of the Stones having a truly unique or at least custom configuration are pretty likely I'd say.

Thanks for all the people who've contributed to the information here, Boogie Amps are definitely very cool. I own an early MKI (with 6 knobs and 3 switches) although I must admit in has been in a road case in the barn for several years now. This thread is the closest I've come to digging it out. lol

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Naturalust

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DancelittleSister
? The first thing I saw was it looked like a 15"speaker, so it must have a wide cabinet. According to the 7 knobs in the front it could be either an MK1 or an MKII. Cannot see any switches. What has the wide panel to do with it, I cannot do any elementary maths with that new variable you bring up here, at least it's not to be seen on that picture?

I think what Mathijs is trying to say is that if it was a MKII wide cabinet it would always have 8 knobs on it. I have no idea if that's a rule of thumb of not, there are certainly pictures of MKII wide cabinets with 8 knobs, one of which I posted on this thread.

I assume there might have been variation on the configurations made back then as things were changing pretty rapidly and the possibility of the Stones having a truly unique or at least custom configuration are pretty likely I'd say.

Thanks for all the people who've contributed to the information here, Boogie Amps are definitely very cool. I own an early MKI (with 6 knobs and 3 switches) although I must admit in has been in a road case in the barn for several years now. This thread is the closest I've come to digging it out. lol

That could be the solution indeed I just googled Mesa Boogie wide cabinet 15" MkII showing some with 7 knobs on the front panel, and since the reverb knob is always an option,(knob 8 on the wide cabinet MKII 15" I guess individual changes could appear rapidly indeed. Whether all these pictures are correct, I don't know:


[www.vintageandrare.com]

[www.google.nl]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-03 02:16 by DancelittleSister.

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DancelittleSister

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Naturalust

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DancelittleSister
? The first thing I saw was it looked like a 15"speaker, so it must have a wide cabinet. According to the 7 knobs in the front it could be either an MK1 or an MKII. Cannot see any switches. What has the wide panel to do with it, I cannot do any elementary maths with that new variable you bring up here, at least it's not to be seen on that picture?

I think what Mathijs is trying to say is that if it was a MKII wide cabinet it would always have 8 knobs on it. I have no idea if that's a rule of thumb of not, there are certainly pictures of MKII wide cabinets with 8 knobs, one of which I posted on this thread.

I assume there might have been variation on the configurations made back then as things were changing pretty rapidly and the possibility of the Stones having a truly unique or at least custom configuration are pretty likely I'd say.

Thanks for all the people who've contributed to the information here, Boogie Amps are definitely very cool. I own an early MKI (with 6 knobs and 3 switches) although I must admit in has been in a road case in the barn for several years now. This thread is the closest I've come to digging it out. lol

That could be the solution indeed I just googled Mesa Boogie wide cabinet 15" MkII showing some with 7 knobs on the front panel, and since the reverb knob is always an option,(knob 8 on the wide cabinet MKII 15" I guess individual changes could appear rapidly indeed. Whether all these pictures are correct, I don't know:


[www.vintageandrare.com]

[www.google.nl]

Good research and thank DLS. So that basically takes us back to the the original "we are not sure" if it is a MKI or a MKII amp in that original picture. Unless Mathijs has some other information he is using to make the assertion that it is a MKI that he hasn't shared here.

3800 Euros for that amp! Damn. The prices of such vintage gear always surprises me. I'm sure glad I held on to so much of mine, I can't believe what my 50's and 60's Fender and Gibson guitars are worth these days.

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DancelittleSister

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Naturalust

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DancelittleSister
? The first thing I saw was it looked like a 15"speaker, so it must have a wide cabinet. According to the 7 knobs in the front it could be either an MK1 or an MKII. Cannot see any switches. What has the wide panel to do with it, I cannot do any elementary maths with that new variable you bring up here, at least it's not to be seen on that picture?

I think what Mathijs is trying to say is that if it was a MKII wide cabinet it would always have 8 knobs on it. I have no idea if that's a rule of thumb of not, there are certainly pictures of MKII wide cabinets with 8 knobs, one of which I posted on this thread.

I assume there might have been variation on the configurations made back then as things were changing pretty rapidly and the possibility of the Stones having a truly unique or at least custom configuration are pretty likely I'd say.

Thanks for all the people who've contributed to the information here, Boogie Amps are definitely very cool. I own an early MKI (with 6 knobs and 3 switches) although I must admit in has been in a road case in the barn for several years now. This thread is the closest I've come to digging it out. lol

That could be the solution indeed I just googled Mesa Boogie wide cabinet 15" MkII showing some with 7 knobs on the front panel, and since the reverb knob is always an option,(knob 8 on the wide cabinet MKII 15" I guess individual changes could appear rapidly indeed. Whether all these pictures are correct, I don't know:


[www.vintageandrare.com]

Unfortunately, this is NOT a wide cabinet amp, and NOT a 15" speaker (and also does not look like a EV speaker, but I am not certain).

A wide cabinet (actually a Tall cabinet would be more appropriate) always has 7 knobs and 4 switches for the MKI, and 8 knobs and 4 switches for the MKII version.

The extra knob is not for the reverb but for the Presence. The reverb knob is always on the back (even though some MKIIB heads had a reverb knob on the front).

So, again, the amp you see on stage in Kansas 81, is a MK1. The story is that 6 or 8 MKI amps with all options from a line of 10 where send to the El Mocambo in late February 1977, at least one with a 15" speaker. One amp was send to Andy Summers of the Police, and one amp was send to a Munich rental company. I own that last amp now. It has serial number 808, Keith's Boogie is 804.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

So, again, the amp you see on stage in Kansas 81, is a MK1. The story is that 6 or 8 MKI amps with all options from a line of 10 where send to the El Mocambo in late February 1977, at least one with a 15" speaker. One amp was send to Andy Summers of the Police, and one amp was send to a Munich rental company. I own that last amp now. It has serial number 808, Keith's Boogie is 804.

Mathijs

That's an interesting story. So a MKI 12" has 6 knobs, the MKI 15" has 7. I'm quoting you, plus that picture with the 4 amps you posted up this thread. On the picture in Kansas we see 7 knobs, so it must either be a MKI 15" or an MKII 12" (again, according to your info).


Below Keith with his beloved 6 knobs MKI, sn 804 I guess.

[crosseyed.tumblr.com]

As for the song being played during the b/w photo (the color one is most probably "Tumbling Dice" since Jagger has the multi-colored scarf hanging) could possibly be "Miss You" as there were long instrumental portions in that song that Keith has been known to 'relax' during. Mick can be seen at the mic stand (he would only be there during a tune which he played guitar on)in the background.Though not sure if Keith played a Strat on "Mss You" on this tour, (and too lazy to check right now).

That "spare" amp in the b/w pic is not miced either.

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DancelittleSister

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Mathijs

So, again, the amp you see on stage in Kansas 81, is a MK1. The story is that 6 or 8 MKI amps with all options from a line of 10 where send to the El Mocambo in late February 1977, at least one with a 15" speaker. One amp was send to Andy Summers of the Police, and one amp was send to a Munich rental company. I own that last amp now. It has serial number 808, Keith's Boogie is 804.

Mathijs

That's an interesting story. So a MKI 12" has 6 knobs, the MKI 15" has 7. I'm quoting you, plus that picture with the 4 amps you posted up this thread. On the picture in Kansas we see 7 knobs, so it must either be a MKI 15" or an MKII 12" (again, according to your info).


Below Keith with his beloved 6 knobs MKI, sn 804 I guess.

[crosseyed.tumblr.com]

The spacing on the right side of the knobs makes this a wide cabinet, so a MKI. Also, the speaker appears to be a 15" speaker, but this is difficult to see.

Mathijs

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JMARKO
That "spare" amp in the b/w pic is not miced either.

Nice observation. The signal could be taken from the Slave out, but I don't think the Stones ever done that....Maybe the story that he wasn't miced is true after all.

Mathijs

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JMARKO
As for the song being played during the b/w photo (the color one is most probably "Tumbling Dice" since Jagger has the multi-colored scarf hanging) could possibly be "Miss You" as there were long instrumental portions in that song that Keith has been known to 'relax' during. Mick can be seen at the mic stand (he would only be there during a tune which he played guitar on)in the background.Though not sure if Keith played a Strat on "Mss You" on this tour, (and too lazy to check right now).

It is TD, because Keith plays his open G-tuned guitar with his capo on. Miss You is in standard tuning.

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Mathijs

Also, the speaker appears to be a 15" speaker, but this is difficult to see.

Mathijs

First thing that popped up in my brains after zooming in and out and given the distance of the amp.

I sent a message to Alberto Guizzetti, and he replied:


2016/01/03 May I ask where the reverb control is on this amp on the picture, cannot see it on the front or back.

Regards.



Hi, sorry my mistake photo..now correct in web site
Thanks a lot
All the best
Alberto Guizzetti

[www.vintageandrare.com]

So the reverb, control no 8 is on the front. And there are several pictures, and some clips on YouTube showing the same. According to Mesa Boogie, the reverb of the first MKII's was not working to their satisfactory. I can imagine the Stones (who had to pay for the Mesa amps ) didn't want the reverb. So maybe 7 knobs on the front is possible, or even the reverb on the back. Theoretically that implies the posted amp in Kansas also could be a MK II 15".

I forwarded the issue to mesa boogie in California, they could have the last word about it if they reply.

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DancelittleSister
I sent a message to Alberto Guizzetti, and he replied:


2016/01/03 May I ask where the reverb control is on this amp on the picture, cannot see it on the front or back.

Regards.



Hi, sorry my mistake photo..now correct in web site
Thanks a lot
All the best
Alberto Guizzetti

[www.vintageandrare.com]

So the reverb, control no 8 is on the front. And there are several pictures, and some clips on YouTube showing the same. According to Mesa Boogie, the reverb of the first MKII's was not working to their satisfactory. I can imagine the Stones (who had to pay for the Mesa amps ) didn't want the reverb. So maybe 7 knobs on the front is possible, or even the reverb on the back. Theoretically that implies the posted amp in Kansas also could be a MK II 15".

I forwarded the issue to mesa boogie in California, they could have the last word about it if they reply.

Yup! You are right.

Hi,

Being the proud owner of a Mesa Boogie myself I have an interesting question:



Did the MKII wide combo with a 15" speaker have 7 or 8 knobs (standard) on the front panel, or was this optional?

There's a picture from the Rolling Stones 1981 (Kansas) and we are trying to figure out what kind of amp it is. This is the link to the picture:

[www.iorr.org]





Here's the answer I got:


Happy New Year DlS,

Being that is the 1981 Tour you’re likely looking at a Mark IIB Combo. Those were popular with the band and the most current model at the time. The difference in whether or not the amp had 7 or 8 knobs depended on whether it was ordered with Reverb or not. If not, it only had seven knobs.

Hope this helps,
Trent

Trent Blake
MESA/BOOGIE, Ltd. - Product Specialist
Customer Support #: (707) 778-6565
My Direct #: (512) 858-7400
Email: tblake@mesaboogie.com
Hours: Mon - Thu, 9:00 to 6:00 CST

I still don't know if it was Taylor's amp he used with Alvin Lee, or it belonged to the Stones. Anyway, case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Quote
DancelittleSister
Hi,

Being the proud owner of a Mesa Boogie myself I have an interesting question:



Did the MKII wide combo with a 15" speaker have 7 or 8 knobs (standard) on the front panel, or was this optional?

There's a picture from the Rolling Stones 1981 (Kansas) and we are trying to figure out what kind of amp it is. This is the link to the picture:

[www.iorr.org]





Here's the answer I got:


Happy New Year DlS,

Being that is the 1981 Tour you’re likely looking at a Mark IIB Combo. Those were popular with the band and the most current model at the time. The difference in whether or not the amp had 7 or 8 knobs depended on whether it was ordered with Reverb or not. If not, it only had seven knobs.

Hope this helps,
Trent

Trent Blake
MESA/BOOGIE, Ltd. - Product Specialist
Customer Support #: (707) 778-6565
My Direct #: (512) 858-7400
Email: tblake@mesaboogie.com
Hours: Mon - Thu, 9:00 to 6:00 CST

I still don't know if it was Taylor's amp he used with Alvin Lee, or it belonged to the Stones. Anyway, case closed as far as I'm concerned.

According to Taylor, he used Keith's spare Boogie. According to Boogie, the Stones always ordered fully spec'd amps, thus with EQ and Reverb. I have yet to see a picture of a Boogie MKII amp with the Stones, they where all MKI amps.

Mathijs

Quote
DancelittleSister

Did the MKII wide combo with a 15" speaker have 7 or 8 knobs (standard) on the front panel, or was this optional?

There's a picture from the Rolling Stones 1981 (Kansas) and we are trying to figure out what kind of amp it is. This is the link to the picture:



Being that is the 1981 Tour you’re likely looking at a Mark IIB Combo. Those were popular with the band and the most current model at the time. The difference in whether or not the amp had 7 or 8 knobs depended on whether it was ordered with Reverb or not. If not, it only had seven knobs.

Nice work DLS, that certainly solves the 7 vs. 8 knob issue. Although the 1981 Rolling Stones show was actually in Missouri not Kansas. Kansas City straddles the border of Missouri and Kansas and Kemper Area is on the Missouri side.

Mathijs, here is what you said about Taylors Amp back in 2010 on another thread.

Myth: he used Keith's MkI amp on stage.
Truth: the pics available do not show a MK1, but he seems to be using Wood's spare Boogie MKIIB Coloseum amp through 4*12 Boogie cab instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-06 18:05 by Naturalust.

Quote
Mathijs
According to Boogie, the Stones always ordered fully spec'd amps, thus with EQ and Reverb. I have yet to see a picture of a Boogie MKII amp with the Stones, they where all MKI amps.

Mathijs

I think the reply I got is as Mesa Boogie as we can get.Thanks for posting the picture.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
DancelittleSister
Hi,

Being the proud owner of a Mesa Boogie myself I have an interesting question:



Did the MKII wide combo with a 15" speaker have 7 or 8 knobs (standard) on the front panel, or was this optional?

There's a picture from the Rolling Stones 1981 (Kansas) and we are trying to figure out what kind of amp it is. This is the link to the picture:

[www.iorr.org]





Here's the answer I got:


Happy New Year DlS,

Being that is the 1981 Tour you’re likely looking at a Mark IIB Combo. Those were popular with the band and the most current model at the time. The difference in whether or not the amp had 7 or 8 knobs depended on whether it was ordered with Reverb or not. If not, it only had seven knobs.

Hope this helps,
Trent

Trent Blake
MESA/BOOGIE, Ltd. - Product Specialist
Customer Support #: (707) 778-6565
My Direct #: (512) 858-7400
Email: tblake@mesaboogie.com
Hours: Mon - Thu, 9:00 to 6:00 CST

I still don't know if it was Taylor's amp he used with Alvin Lee, or it belonged to the Stones. Anyway, case closed as far as I'm concerned.

According to Taylor, he used Keith's spare Boogie. According to Boogie, the Stones always ordered fully spec'd amps, thus with EQ and Reverb. I have yet to see a picture of a Boogie MKII amp with the Stones, they where all MKI amps.

Mathijs

\\


You have no idea do you?

how does the Mesa MKI compare with the reissue Mesa that came out i think two years ago?

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
DancelittleSister

Did the MKII wide combo with a 15" speaker have 7 or 8 knobs (standard) on the front panel, or was this optional?

There's a picture from the Rolling Stones 1981 (Kansas) and we are trying to figure out what kind of amp it is. This is the link to the picture:



Being that is the 1981 Tour you’re likely looking at a Mark IIB Combo. Those were popular with the band and the most current model at the time. The difference in whether or not the amp had 7 or 8 knobs depended on whether it was ordered with Reverb or not. If not, it only had seven knobs.

Nice work DLS, that certainly solves the 7 vs. 8 knob issue. Although the 1981 Rolling Stones show was actually in Missouri not Kansas. Kansas City straddles the border of Missouri and Kansas and Kemper Area is on the Missouri side.

Mathijs, here is what you said about Taylors Amp back in 2010 on another thread.

Myth: he used Keith's MkI amp on stage.
Truth: the pics available do not show a MK1, but he seems to be using Wood's spare Boogie MKIIB Coloseum amp through 4*12 Boogie cab instead.

Yes -on all the pics we had so far in 2010 from the gig there was not a Boogie MKI to be seen anywhere, and from where Taylor was standing it seem(s)(ed) he was using Wood's spare MKIIB Coloseum amp (the head with 4*12 cab, there's always two behind Wood, one active and one spare).

Now there is this pic of a Boogie combo. I am certain this is not a MKII -Mesa Boogie's answer is not telling me anything. Yes, in 1981 MKIIB's where popular and new, but not with the Stones. They used many MKIIB's heads (the coloseum version), but I have yet to see a MKIIB combo before 1983 (when they starting to use new combo's). They had half a dozen MKI's, and they used them all while practicing and warming up back stage. No MKII's. And again, all amps ever ordered by the Stones had reverb and EQ.

I am still a bit baffled by the fact that the amp s not miced. This normally means the amp is used as a monitor, something they did in 1975 with Charlie (a Fender Twin). It could mean the combo is not used buy Taylor, but that Taylor indeed is playing one of the spare Coloseum heads, and that would than be spare for Wood.

Mathijs

Quote
Naturalust

Although the 1981 Rolling Stones show was actually in Missouri not Kansas. Kansas City straddles the border of Missouri and Kansas and Kemper Area is on the Missouri side.

Shit, so it is an MK I,53 after all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-06 23:52 by DancelittleSister.

Quote
Mathijs


[www.vintageandrare.com]

Unfortunately, this is NOT a wide cabinet amp, and NOT a 15" speaker (and also does not look like a EV speaker, but I am not certain).


Mathijs

I sent another message to that dealer, just to be certain.

2016/01/05
Hi sir,
Just saw the Amp. Are you sure it's a 15" speaker, could it be a 12" looking from the back ?

Looking foreward your reply,



Hi, yes, I am very certain it's a 15" speaker!
Best
Alberto Guizzetti

Quote
DancelittleSister

Quote
Naturalust

Although the 1981 Rolling Stones show was actually in Missouri not Kansas. Kansas City straddles the border of Missouri and Kansas and Kemper Area is on the Missouri side.

Shit, so it is an MK I,53 after all.

LOL Not necessarily, but since Mathijs is considerably more knowledgeable about Stones gear than I or the Mesa Boogie rep probably is I'm willing to accept the possibility it is indeed a MKI. Perhaps some additional photos or info. will surface some day and we can make a better determination.

As far as the amp not being mic'ed it's being on the side of the stage I'm guessing it was not being used at the time. There is a possibility it was used as a monitor speaker but the positioning is off for such an application. Nobody wants sound blasting from the side of the stage muddying up the mixed monitor signals coming from the front monitors. Keyboard players and drummers have their monitors close by and pointed at their heads and there seemed to be plenty of wedge monitors on stage for that show.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
JMARKO
As for the song being played during the b/w photo (the color one is most probably "Tumbling Dice" since Jagger has the multi-colored scarf hanging) could possibly be "Miss You" as there were long instrumental portions in that song that Keith has been known to 'relax' during. Mick can be seen at the mic stand (he would only be there during a tune which he played guitar on)in the background.Though not sure if Keith played a Strat on "Mss You" on this tour, (and too lazy to check right now).

It is TD, because Keith plays his open G-tuned guitar with his capo on. Miss You is in standard tuning.

Right, but you are conflating my points. I agree with the Tumbling Dice, but there is no capo in the b/w photo, which is the one I suggested might be Miss You.