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RobertJohnson

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

It is sterile and clinically aseptic, both the playing and the mixing. A boring piece of music and a legitimate representative of the Chuck and Vegas years. More Michael Jackson-like than Stones-like.

It seems like people are blaming 89/90 for being the start of the Vegas years (which they were) rather than taking the concerts at face value.

However, I don't think Flashpoint is very strong, certainly not a good document of the shows I saw in 1989. Factory Girl is great, I agree, and it's my favorite live version of Start Me Up. Other than that, the performances on Flashpoint lack the energy and edge that they still had back then. The performances on the tour were better than Flashpoint.

What's more striking is people are ranking Ya-Ya's below any of their other live albums?!?! The only other one that holds a candle IMO is Brussels.

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

Some good points. I gave it an average rating for several reason.
Start Me Up is a poor (uninspired?) version.
The horns are too dominate, i can't listen to Rock & Hard Place (not a great song to begin with, but come on, the horns just kill it) or JJF without great annoyance to the horns.
You Can't Alway Get ... and Sympathy ... just pales in comparison to the Brussels and YaYas versions.
Can't Be Seen - probably my least favorite Keith rocker - I'd have preferred Wanna Hold You much more here.
Studio tracks - why? Highwire is decent enough, but save it for the next album ... Sex Drive, totally lame - Mick perfected that one w/ Sweet Thing for his own album.
And lastly, yes some good b-sides (like 2000 light years, although heavily edited) but I don't count b-sides as part of the album.

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

Some good points. I gave it an average rating for several reason.
Start Me Up is a poor (uninspired?) version.
The horns are too dominate, i can't listen to Rock & Hard Place (not a great song to begin with, but come on, the horns just kill it) or JJF without great annoyance to the horns.
You Can't Alway Get ... and Sympathy ... just pales in comparison to the Brussels and YaYas versions.
Can't Be Seen - probably my least favorite Keith rocker - I'd have preferred Wanna Hold You much more here.
Studio tracks - why? Highwire is decent enough, but save it for the next album ... Sex Drive, totally lame - Mick perfected that one w/ Sweet Thing for his own album.
And lastly, yes some good b-sides (like 2000 light years, although heavily edited) but I don't count b-sides as part of the album.

Many of those songs are not included on the original vinyl version

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RobertJohnson

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

It is sterile and clinically aseptic, both the playing and the mixing. A boring piece of music and a legitimate representative of the Chuck and Vegas years. More Michael Jackson-like than Stones-like.

I'm very interested in hearing what's Michael Jackson-like with:

SMU
SSS
FG
JJF
PIB
S

when reviewing any album I always think of it in two ways - if you're a big fan of the band versus if you're not a fan of the band. For instance lets say Beggars Banquet. I think Beggars Banquet is a classic great album IF you're a big Stones fan. It's actually a very uncommercial album (actually wasn't even a big seller peaked at like #5 or something). If I was to introduce the Stones to a newbie I would never play that album.

So regarding Stones live albums - for someone who doesn't know the Stones well I would play probably Flashpoint since it's chock full of good versions of many classic songs. Yet for a big Stones fan, like myself, I find it boring and never listen to it. So for a Stones fan I'd give it like 3 stars, but for a newbie - let's say 4.5 stars.

Get Your Ya Ya's is a perfect live album. To me the best live album probably ever (possibly excepting Frampton Comes Alive - yea kill me...). Why?

Because a great live album (and there are few in my opinion) has better versions of the songs than the studio albums for one thing...plus flow, sound etc.

Frampton Comes Alive literally almost all the songs are superior to their studio versions. And Ya's besides being a perfect sounding, great atmosphere, great little touches (like Jagger's short talks) has some superior versions notably Midnight Rambler, Love In Vain, Live With Me, Carol and to me Street Fighting Man. And the other songs are comparable to the studio versions - Just a perfect album.

No Security also is pretty great and Out Of Control and Saint Of Me are far superior to the studio versions....

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DandelionPowderman

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RobertJohnson

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

It is sterile and clinically aseptic, both the playing and the mixing. A boring piece of music and a legitimate representative of the Chuck and Vegas years. More Michael Jackson-like than Stones-like.

I'm very interested in hearing what's Michael Jackson-like with:

SMU
SSS
FG
JJF
PIB
S

PIB is very strong on Flashpoint too, is there a better version of it live?

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DandelionPowderman

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

Some good points. I gave it an average rating for several reason.
Start Me Up is a poor (uninspired?) version.
The horns are too dominate, i can't listen to Rock & Hard Place (not a great song to begin with, but come on, the horns just kill it) or JJF without great annoyance to the horns.
You Can't Alway Get ... and Sympathy ... just pales in comparison to the Brussels and YaYas versions.
Can't Be Seen - probably my least favorite Keith rocker - I'd have preferred Wanna Hold You much more here.
Studio tracks - why? Highwire is decent enough, but save it for the next album ... Sex Drive, totally lame - Mick perfected that one w/ Sweet Thing for his own album.
And lastly, yes some good b-sides (like 2000 light years, although heavily edited) but I don't count b-sides as part of the album.

Many of those songs are not included on the original vinyl version

Just to continue, I might as well list the good.
I like the Continental Drift intro before they come on.
Sad Sad Sad ... some cool guitar licks on that one.
As you stated, Ruby Tuesday and Factory Girl are great!
Little Red Rooster -- not sure I'd say the best version, but it's such a great song and they always do it justice! I still love their studio version!
Satisfaction - I don't mind the horns here, a great live version!

Some really cool b-sides too, I can't rate them w/ the album but I can comment (I actually had to look them up, i forgot what bsides they released)
I LOVE the slow Just Make Love To You!
Play With Fire and Street Fighting Man are great!
2000 Light Years is great - but listen to the AC version instead of bside, they cut too much out.
And cool to have Undercover done live, but the studio version kills it.

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DandelionPowderman

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RobertJohnson

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

It is sterile and clinically aseptic, both the playing and the mixing. A boring piece of music and a legitimate representative of the Chuck and Vegas years. More Michael Jackson-like than Stones-like.

I'm very interested in hearing what's Michael Jackson-like with:

SMU
SSS
FG
JJF
PIB
S

I'm thinking, comparable to "Dirty Diana" with a "oh wow, I can be a bad guy too" solo from Slash.

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kammpberg
when reviewing any album I always think of it in two ways - if you're a big fan of the band versus if you're not a fan of the band. For instance lets say Beggars Banquet. I think Beggars Banquet is a classic great album IF you're a big Stones fan. It's actually a very uncommercial album (actually wasn't even a big seller peaked at like #5 or something). If I was to introduce the Stones to a newbie I would never play that album.

So regarding Stones live albums - for someone who doesn't know the Stones well I would play probably Flashpoint since it's chock full of good versions of many classic songs. Yet for a big Stones fan, like myself, I find it boring and never listen to it. So for a Stones fan I'd give it like 3 stars, but for a newbie - let's say 4.5 stars.

Get Your Ya Ya's is a perfect live album. To me the best live album probably ever (possibly excepting Frampton Comes Alive - yea kill me...). Why?

Because a great live album (and there are few in my opinion) has better versions of the songs than the studio albums for one thing...plus flow, sound etc.

Frampton Comes Alive literally almost all the songs are superior to their studio versions. And Ya's besides being a perfect sounding, great atmosphere, great little touches (like Jagger's short talks) has some superior versions notably Midnight Rambler, Love In Vain, Live With Me, Carol and to me Street Fighting Man. And the other songs are comparable to the studio versions - Just a perfect album.

No Security also is pretty great and Out Of Control and Saint Of Me are far superior to the studio versions....

I completely agee with your analysis above of all the Stones album you mention. But I think it's interesting that you would introduce a newbie first to the "commercial stuff" than to the "good for Stones-fans" stuff.
I suppose it depends on what kind of newbie we are talking about (i.e. a "I like Madonna" newbie, an I like "PIL/Dead Kennedys" newbie, or an "I like jazz/blues" newbie).
I am most familiar with the first and second kind.
For people who like "rough music", it's easy: they might like stuff from Get Yer Ya Ya's or from the Brussels bootleg. They might like some stuff from BB, or SG or TY. They might even like Exile On Main Street (although they might consider it too "classic" ). But they would abhor their "Las Vegas" stuff, including Flashpoint.
With the "mainstream" newbies, my experience is that - funnily enough - they - as well - are more likely to like the Stones-fan-good stuff, like the Big Four, or their early R&B covers, the hits from 1963-1969, Aftermath but in general dislike anything post Tattoo You as well.
The problem with the Vegas years is that it doesn't connect really well with anybody: neither with the Stones die-hards nor with any kind of newbies. People come to their concerts because it's great fun and they are professional entertainers, but music-wise, the Stones were much more interesting before.

Flashpoint I agree is not particularly good for anyone but a collector/fanatic, it does have the best versions of PIB and SMU and the factory girl, ruby tuesday, and 2000 light years from home are very nice to have. But if a new Stones fan was considering starting off with it, I'd strongly push them in a different direction.

Still Life is the best introduction for a new fan to the band. It skips entirely the Mick Taylor years but it's full of hits from the mid-60s to the latest album (TY), is very listenable, and by including the intro and outro they give the sense that a Stones concert is a full-on happening.

Ya-Ya's is the album that turns Stones casual fans into Stones obsessed fans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-26 20:08 by Turner68.

Ya Ya´s was a huge disappointment for me some thirty years ago as I first listened to it. The expanded edition could not change my mind. I still dont dig what is so special about this record/these performances. Most songs are available in better live versions. On the other hand my first listening to Flashpoint was a quite enjoyable experience, much more enjoyable than Ya Ya´s. Yesterday I listened to Live In Tokyo 1990 and was quite disappointed - they played well but somehow their playing and singing wasnt "heartfelt", it was just routine. And there are these mostly terrible songs from Steel Wheels that spoil the concert. It would have been better if they had toured with Undercover or Dirty Work instead the weak and pale Steel-Wheels-album.

No Security is a good one, although it is partly ruined because of Taj Mahal and Dave Matthews and the inclusion of tracks like Saint Of Me, Out Of Control and Thief In The Night. The rest of the programm is highly enjoyable.

Shine A Light seems to be a very underrated gem amongst fans, I can honestly say I enjoy it very very much from start to finish. But on top of it all sits L.A. Friday, it´s pure pleasure and delight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-26 21:29 by HMS.

Part 2:

Live In England 1965: 10/10
Live At The Marquee: 10/10 (incl. the Roundhouse stuff)
The Brussels Affair: 10/10
LA 75: 8/10
Live In Texas: 10/10
Hampton: 10/10
Roundhay Park – Live In Leeds: 10/10
Live In Tokyo: 5/10 (I don´t really like the weak guitar sound compared to the US tour), but that Rambler is in my Rambler Top 10!
Light The Fuse – Toronto Phoenix: 8/10
Sweet Summer Sun: 7/10, no, 10/10, ´cause I´m the photo of the crowd! ><
Sticky Fingers Live: don´t have it yet

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HMS
No Security is a good one, although it is partly ruined because of [...]
the inclusion of tracks like Saint Of Me, Out Of Control ...

Those two were the HIGHLIGHTS on that tour.

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HMS
Ya Ya´s was a huge disappointment for me some thirty years ago as I first listened to it. The expanded edition could not change my mind. I still dont dig what is so special about this record/these performances. Most songs are available in better live versions. On the other hand my first listening to Flashpoint was a quite enjoyable experience, much more enjoyable than Ya Ya´s. Yesterday I listened to Live In Tokyo 1990 and was quite disappointed - they played well but somehow their playing and singing wasnt "heartfelt", it was just routine. And there are these mostly terrible songs from Steel Wheels that spoil the concert. It would have been better if they had toured with Undercover or Dirty Work instead the weak and pale Steel-Wheels-album.

No Security is a good one, although it is partly ruined because of Taj Mahal and Dave Matthews and the inclusion of tracks like Saint Of Me, Out Of Control and Thief In The Night. The rest of the programm is highly enjoyable.

Shine A Light seems to be a very underrated gem amongst fans, I can honestly say I enjoy it very very much from start to finish. But on top of it all sits L.A. Friday, it´s pure pleasure and delight.

on what live album do you feel there is a better version of:

- any chuck berry cover
- SFTD
- Rambler
- SFM
- HTW

?

Better HTW-version on Love You Live
Better SFM-version on Sweet Summer Sun

SFTD & Rambler: I will tell you tomorrow...

To me Flashpoint is a lifeless sterile version of the Vegas Act they launched in 1989. I'm glad they did it, I want them to exist but it is Vegas. And Flashpoint is a Vegas album.

The Best Live Album ???
depends on When you came in.

OK we can have endless discussions of what has been released on All the official & Vault releases - I will take a different view on what has not been officially released,. Yes we all know about the classic live albums & Classic period- Well how about the period when most people try to put the Stones into Vegas - is there a better live album than 1999's No Security Tour than - " While The Wind Blows Over Toronto" ?. I love this complete 1999 concert For me it's up with the best. .



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-27 09:28 by Tonstone.

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RockingLonestar

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kowalski
I would rank the Stones live album like this (not including the Eagle Rock/bootleg releases) :

1) Get Yer Ya-Ya's out! - The perfect "live" album
2) Sweet Summer Sun - Have the Stones been so focused on their playing since GYYYO?
3) Sticky Fingers Live (great playing, real good choice for the track listing - when are they going to release this properly??)
4) No Security - just a great live album from start to finish
5) Stripped (including the live b-sides it makes a very good live album)
6) Live Licks (despite the bad edits I always liked the second disc with the "rarities" - Maybe they should have released it on a single CD like No Security)
7) Shine A Light (the track listing is good and the band is playing quite well on it)
8) Love You Live - Like the rawness of the renditions but it's a bit all over the place
9) Still Life - quite good straightforward live album but the track listing is not so interesting
10) Flashpoint - Good live album but it sounds so dated today...
10) Got Live if you want it! - never bothered about this one. The new Live 1965 is so much better.

I mostly agree, except that I really like LYL very much (except FF and SFTD).
Until now I always thought I was the only one who really likes CD2 of Live Licks (and I really like CD2 very much). After more than 10 years I can even stand the horrible cut in Rocks Off without being shocked and confused ;-)

I used to listen to LYL a lot, especially when it was re-released by Virgin at the end of the 90's (good remastering). That was one my favorite Stones live albums back then. But since then we got Live Licks, Shine a Light and Sweet Summer Sun which are all way superior : better playing, singing, track listing and sound.

Worried About You, Monkey Man, Beast of Burden
off of Live Licks
rock my world.
Extremely tasty, those 3 tracks.

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Turner68
Great reviews, nice to have it all in one place.

Ya-Ya's, the El Mocambo side of LYL, and Still Life are for me the best (in that order). I've always felt the El Mocambo side of LYL was worth the price of the whole double album, and that the 3 other sides are unlistenable (although I do love the intro to Honky Tonk Women with Fanfare for the Common Man).

I seem to be the only one on this board who doesn't like Stripped, but I'm willing to live with that.

...but I'm not willing to live with the fact that you're willing to live with that.

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman

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RobertJohnson

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DandelionPowderman
To me it's unfathomable that Flashpoint has such a bad reputation on here

A fantastic Start Me Up, a great version of Sad Sad Sad from Atlantic City, a beautiful Ruby Tuesday, Factory Girl(!), a great Paint It, Black, great versions of JJF and Satisfaction + cd bonus tracks as well as 2 studio tracks.

That should be sufficient?

It is sterile and clinically aseptic, both the playing and the mixing. A boring piece of music and a legitimate representative of the Chuck and Vegas years. More Michael Jackson-like than Stones-like.

I'm very interested in hearing what's Michael Jackson-like with:

SMU
SSS
FG
JJF
PIB
S

PIB is very strong on Flashpoint too, is there a better version of it live?

I like it just for the part where they play the audio of the girl saying "PAINT IT BLACK, PAINT IT BLACK YOU DEVIL", from GYYYO and Mick announces "LISTEN TO THAT!".

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HMS

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matxil

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HMS
Amost all of them are GREAT. 10/10 for (almost) all of them. Nothing can beat The Rolling Stones live.

Good but not really great are:
Ya Ya´s - 4/10
Flashpoint - 7/10
Live In Tokyo 5/10

The greatest of all is:
L.A. Friday - 11/10


I like Live Licks & Shine A Light very much too.

Sometimes, I have the serious impression you love to go against the general grain.

First of all, Ya Ya´s is heavily overdubbed so it is a bit funny to praise it as "the world´s greatest live album", like fans and critics use to do. This is NOT the Stones "captured at the peak of their live work", it was improved afterwards. Plus, I dont really like the setlist.

Yeah really, what were they thinking?! SFTD, Midnight Rambler, JJF, Stray Cat Blues, Live With Me, HTW, SFM, Little Queenie, Carol, Love In Vain...some pretty toxic stuff in there.

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Kowalski

I would rank the Stones live album like this (not including the Eagle Rock/bootleg releases) :

1) Get Yer Ya-Ya's out! - The perfect "live" album

It probobly was in 1969. But now it just sounds.....dated. (And never been a fan of Chuck Berry...sorry)


For the MT era i very much prefer Brussels (and would love to have a good recording from 1972)

I've never liked Get Yer Ya Ya's out particularly much. Carol is a bore, Little Queenie lacks of energy, Love In Vain is melodramatic and the versions of SFM and HTW are way too cheerful for my taste.

Happy to see Im not the only one who dares criticize Yayas. I agree with Tops and TheBlockbuster and will add Mick's vocals. He still sounded too young, insecure and innocent in 1969. Not on Let it bleed, but live in 1969. At the same time I think objectively it is maybe their best live album because it probably pleases the ears of the masses more than anything from their actual greatest golden diamond-section era: 1972-1973.
The songs are performed in a very correct way in 1969, they're not out there taking chances. As in 1989.

Ya-Ya's is up on LIVE ALBUM talk now

Got Live If You Want It: 2/10 Too much crowd noise
Get Yer Ya Yas Out: 10/10 Should be more, just for Stray Cat Blues!!!
Love You Live: 7/10 Ramshackle brilliance, in the main.
Still Life: 2/10 HORRIBLE BEYOND WORDS. 2 for Going to A GoGo
Flashpoint: 6/10 Bit sterile
No Security: 7/10 Like the rarities
Live Licks: 7/10 Ditto
Shine A Light: 8/10 I am odd then, I like this record
Live At The Marquee 71: 8/10 Brilliance
Live In Leeds: 9/10 More brilliance
The Brussels Affair: 10/10 Even MORE BRILLIANCE
LA 75: 6/10 Dunno....not QUITE there
Live In Texas 72: 10/10 RIGHT on the money, brilliance
Hampton: 5/10 Not the right era for me - too shambolic
Roundhay Park–Live In Leeds:9/10 Almost perfect
Live In Tokyo: 9/10 Love the PUNCHY sound to this, apart from Sad, Sad, Sad...which IS Sad, Sad, Sad!
Light The Fuse–Toronto, PHX: 4/10 Nope
Sweet Summer Sun: 9/10 Focussed brilliance
Sticky Fingers Live : 10/10 Rough, ready and glorious

Rod

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HMS
Better HTW-version on Love You Live

Of course!
video: [www.youtube.com]

LYL and Texas 78 have the best HTW versions, imo.

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Redhotcarpet

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HMS
Better HTW-version on Love You Live

Of course!
video: [www.youtube.com]

Jagger's singing ruins this for me, otherwise it is good.

thanks for the link to Paris, btw, hadn't seen the video before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-27 11:38 by Turner68.