If he didn't become a casualty ala Syd Barret, he could have formed some sort of free form Grateful Dead style band with endless meandering jams incorporating blues, jazz, world, etc.

Or maybe he would have moved to Jamaica, and lived up in the hills with a group of Rastafarians smoking ganja religiously while recording Nyabinghi drumming.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

He could've achieved a successful post-Stones career in the 1970s similar to that of Eric Clapton. But I don't believe Jones had the discipline and drive that Clapton had. Also, though a purist, Clapton still had a pop sensibility which was part of his success (and I don't think Jones had that either).

We'll never know, as he sadly did not make it past the 1960s.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 21:25 by nightskyman.

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nightskyman
He could've achieved a successful post-Stones career in the 1970s similar to that of Eric Clapton. But I don't believe Jones had the discipline and drive that Clapton had (even though a purist, Clapton still had a pop sensibility that I don't think Brian had either).

well, brian did have the sensibility to believe that american blues and rhythm and blues might be a good direction for a band to take in early 60s england...

@ Turner68 - Yes, that he did.

By what I had read in past books he and John Lennon were communicating, so hell they might have formed a group together or if he survived, and the Beatles continued he might have joined them?

No never. Sorry, I'm a Brian-fan but I really cannot see any possible direction for him after the Stones. He'd have to change the scene and be promised some kind of chance to reinvent himself within and outside the Stones. And theyd never ever let him back in. Some kind of boost in public. The drugged Brian served to hide the intelligent but volatile Brian. So forget Rastafaris and world music. Mr Jones didnt like drugs and alcohol he just needed it. This is the prototype for Morrison, Bowie and many more. Film scores yes, some kind of rock music with others. Maybe some collaboration with Zeppelin, Nick Drake, Bowie, Bolan. But how do you do that and remain the star? I m afraid he was probably one of those all or nothing types. OK sure, maybe Lennon and he could have done some project but I doubt it would have been more than one number. By punk and disco he'd be gone. Just like the Stones hadnt Mick, Billy and Bill done Miss you. Same thing again in 1981 with Start me up. Taylor and the groups fantastic voyage from 1969-1973 (live) sold many tickets in 1975-1976.

Lennon said in the 1970 Rolling Stone interview i think, that towards the end Brian was in a dreadful state and JL dreaded phone calls from him so I find it hard to believe they would have formed a group together as suggested. Maybe a jam or two but JL treated George like complete shit and he had great songs and had really started getting his guitar playing together from late 68 so I don't fancy Brian's chances in his state (or Lennon's for that matter).
I can't see Lennon having the patience to deal with Brian in a band situation especially at that point in time. He'd probably have reduced him to tears.
I'm also not really sure what Brian could contribute in a band situation anymore. He couldn't sing well, there's very sadly virtually zero evidence of his writing, he needed to put some serious work in on his guitar playing and his attempt at piano on All Along The Watch tower by Hendrix was apparently a disaster. There are outtakes of this and it's bad ! Maybe he was having an off day.
Glyn Johns commented how sad it was to see how poor Brian's guitar playing had got. His inspired dabbling (or otherwise) was no longer required by The Stones and to be quite frank they don't seem to have liked him much at all either.
He probably needed to get himself into proper shape mentally and physically which would require a long break (not toking/popping pills/drinking in Morocco) but I fear his best years were long gone.
His period with the Stones is easily my fave Stones era.
Some here pointed to Syd Barrett/Peter Green/Brian Wilson who were victims of serious mental illness. I'm not sure I've ever read anything that suggests that was the case with Brian. He was a mess and sadly we will never know if he could have pulled out of the nosedive. I suspect not but that's just my opinion.
On the plus side he left some great music that I'm gonna be listening to for years to come and obviously without him there would be no Rolling Stones.

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paulspendel
Hi Swiss,

i take it Trevor Hobleu or Scott Jones still have the tapes.
i have no more more information about the acetate. Given the fact Less Perrin teamed up with Tom Keylock in covering up the case, it's very likely the acetate will never come to the surface.

Thanks, Paul!

To quote Pete Townsend: "Brian, the man who died every day".

People tend to forget the autopsy report: damaged heart and liver. Very poor physical future.

As paulspendel points out, Brian was in very poor mental and physical health. It would have taken quite a while for him to get into good enough shape where he could pursue his musical aspirations, and the means for recovery were more sparse back then. Had he gotten more sober and balanced, he could very well have succeeded.

That's true..but if you think about the demise of UK footballer George Best, he had plenty of support and options available to him, but he seemed determined to drink himself to death.
And of course more recently Amy Winehouse.....what a sad waste of a real talent.

As Mick once said "Brian was too sensitive to cope with show business'

[youtu.be]

Has anyone seen this before?

He also died very heavily in debt. Alive he would never have overcome that financial burden. Charlie was criticised when he said Brian would have turned into a tragic figure walking up and down Kings road, but I think he was right.

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paulspendel
He also died very heavily in debt. Alive he would never have overcome that financial burden. Charlie was criticised when he said Brian would have turned into a tragic figure walking up and down Kings road, but I think he was right.

thanks for your continued input here Paul. I don't have your book to hand but were the final terms of his exit contract ever truly established and did his family continue to get royalties after his death.
was his lack of funds due to his extravagant lifestyle or Klein or a both.

are you still doing a documentary/film ? how's it going ?
have you uncovered much new evidence since the book was published ?
many thanks

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paulspendel
He also died very heavily in debt. Alive he would never have overcome that financial burden. Charlie was criticised when he said Brian would have turned into a tragic figure walking up and down Kings road, but I think he was right.

I had that quote in mind and sadly I believe Charlie's right. Also Charlies quote about how and why it was wrong to fire Brian. I understand why they did it but still.

The DVD with the documentary will be out mid 2016. It took my partners a long time to find a distributor. It will contain, for instance, unseen interviews with Tom Keylock and Janet Lawson. The fact that they had a secret child together was a very strong motive to keep the case buried. They did not care for Brian, they were afraid someone would find out about the child. I did, eventually. A woman, now living in Scotland.

Brian’s estate provides Brian’s sister with an average amount of 15.000 pounds a year, all air play royalties from the UK. Clive Berger handled the estate till 2005 and afterwards an Oxford account took over.

The money promised to Brian materialized into a tangible cheque, but that cheque was never cashed.

What I found after the book got out is that A) relatives of the builders involved still know the whole story and ignore any attempt I make for contact. This also goes for a Chichester police officer, still alive, who knows the whole story.

the most precious thing I was sent privately, is a drawing Brian's parents kept on their dressoir in their lounge as a rememberance of Brian. I feel it is not appropriate to post it, but personally it proved for me Louisa en Lewis must have cared for Brian a lot.

There is one thing I wanted to state for a very long time, but it never happened. The truly one and only thing that convinced me that Frank killed Brian, is that when I got in touch with some of the people who worked at Redlands (1967/1968) and Cotchford (1969) they surprised me by the fact they were not aware at all of the publicity and books surrounding the case for many years. We, the fans, know, but these plain and simple men and women did not pay attention at all to the coverage in the media. They could not care less. This made them ideal witnesses because they told me they had never read any books or newspaper articles about the case and yet they told me they knew for sure Frank had done Brian in. They had learned already they told me in 1969 because they were part of this clique, this inner circle of builders/chauffeurs. It would not stand up in court, but it convinced me.

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paulspendel
There is one thing I wanted to state for a very long time, but it never happened. The truly one and only thing that convinced me that Frank killed Brian, is that when I got in touch with some of the people who worked at Redlands (1967/1968) and Cotchford (1969) they surprised me by the fact they were not aware at all of the publicity and books surrounding the case for many years. We, the fans, know, but these plain and simple men and women did not pay attention at all to the coverage in the media. They could not care less. This made them ideal witnesses because they told me they had never read any books or newspaper articles about the case and yet they told me they knew for sure Frank had done Brian in. They had learned already they told me in 1969 because they were part of this clique, this inner circle of builders/chauffeurs. It would not stand up in court, but it convinced me.

thanks Paul

That's actually a pretty decent amount of money £15,000 a year from airplay royalties in the UK.
Would it be fair to assume that this is also fairly well topped up by international airplay (esp. USA) and performance royalties from album sales.
Some aspects of their back catalogue must be fairly healthy sellers like Hot Rocks and Grrr.

Also all the Stones we in debt back then with Klein
running the money for them.

The 1972 ABKCO settlement awarded the Estate of Brian Jones £100,000. Not sure how this was calculated but presumably it was linked to record royalties due to band members but held by Klein under the terms of the bands original 1965 management and record company agreements (royalties to be paid over a 20 year timescale).

Whilst this was going on, Prince Rupert was negotiating with the tax authorities re the Stones individual and corporate tax debts.

As Bill has said he had a bill of £100k. its fair to assume Brian owed a similar amount.
Prince Rupert, in his autobiography said he got a settlement in 1977, for a much more modest amount.
Brian's estate was in debt to the tune of £160k. when revealed in May 1970. The sale of Cotchford Farm will have reduced this figure by £35k or so.

I believe the Estate was back in credit by the early 1980's.

I think its tremendous credit to Brian's family that they have never sold their story or tried to cash in, in any way. Likewise Bill's 'wife" Astrid , who was an ever present figure in StonesWorld, the period 1967 to 1983.
Very dignified imo.