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New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Toru A ()
Date: November 21, 2015 09:22

Was informed Steel Wheels and Flashpoint will be released as SACD format.
However, it seems this plan has changed.
The other formats will be reissued in December, instead.
Flashpoint [www.hmv.co.jp]
Steel Wheels [www.hmv.co.jp]

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: November 21, 2015 13:01

But it says the CD is made from the 2015 DSD remaster. Therefore the new SHM-CD should sound good.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: barbabang ()
Date: November 21, 2015 13:23

The question is, how was Steels Wheels recorded. I think digitally I'm afraid. If that is the case, could it be that the reslution is 16 bit? In that case an SACD makes no sense. Hope I'm wrong though!

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 21, 2015 13:30

Quote
Toru A

Was informed Steel Wheels and Flashpoint will be released as SACD format.

That would be nice.

Hopefully Universal does not the same like Sony in this example:


The original from 1984: Digital Recording / Mixing on Sony PCM 1610, CD labeled as 'DDD'.



Remaster 2014: now from the "Original Analog Tapes" .... eye rolling smiley

--------

The original 'Steel Wheels' and 'Flashpoint' CDs are labeled 'DDD' too:





If both albums were recorded / mixed on 16bit equipment, then a SACD would only be a upscaled version ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-21 13:50 by Irix.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 21, 2015 14:30

Quote
kowalski

But it says the CD is made from the 2015 DSD remaster.

Interestingly the Universal Japan website says only: "2015 DSD master that is based on the UK original master", while Universal says on the same website about the 'Dirty Work' SACD: "2011 latest DSD master that is based on the UK original analog tape". Technically it would be no problem to make a DSD version from a 16bit DAT master tape ....

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Date: November 21, 2015 14:34

I think that the digital master tapes are usually 24-bit recordings which were then scaled down for the CD format. "Talk is Cheap" from the same era is one such example,if I am not mistaken.

SA-CD (DSD) is a different format from 16-bit / 20-bit / 24-bit PCM ( CD's / DVD-Audio Discs ) .

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: barbabang ()
Date: November 21, 2015 14:57

I think Dirty Work is recorded on tape.

The SHM SACD with the biggest improvement in sound (from the the whole lot from 2011 )is Dirty Work to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-21 14:57 by barbabang.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 21, 2015 15:05

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII

"Talk is Cheap" from the same era is one such example,if I am not mistaken.

While there's unfortunately no hint about Recording/Mixing on the original US/UK CDs, the 1988 japanese release of 'Talk is Cheap' is labled 'AAD'.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: barbabang ()
Date: November 21, 2015 15:17

Talk Is Cheap is recorded analogue on tape.

Dirty Work is recorded on tape too based to my ears and knowing where it was recorded.

Bridges To Babylon too. Luckily!

Everything should be recorded (if possible) on tape by The Stones. One can always digitize after for digital releases and or for back up.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 21, 2015 20:15

Quote
barbabang
The question is, how was Steels Wheels recorded. I think digitally I'm afraid. If that is the case, could it be that the reslution is 16 bit? In that case an SACD makes no sense. Hope I'm wrong though!

I recall it was recorded digitally, at least from the info originally available on the CD. DDD

Not sure what that exactly means for the future but that's what was indicated when it was first released.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: November 21, 2015 20:48

Just because it was recorded on 16 bit equipment doesn't necessarily mean the new release will be low quality. It depends a lot on the quality of the original recordings, not just the resolution. There is plenty of ability to record large dynamic ranges with 16 bits and the frequency response limitations of 48K (likely sample rate) are probably not going to be noticeable to 99% of the listeners.

All released versions except the 2009 remaster had good dynamic range and you would be amazed how well something recorded in 16 bits can sound when upsampled and remastered at higher resolutions. No need to condemn this one yet.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 22, 2015 01:24

Quote
Naturalust
Just because it was recorded on 16 bit equipment doesn't necessarily mean the new release will be low quality. It depends a lot on the quality of the original recordings, not just the resolution. There is plenty of ability to record large dynamic ranges with 16 bits and the frequency response limitations of 48K (likely sample rate) are probably not going to be noticeable to 99% of the listeners.

All released versions except the 2009 remaster had good dynamic range and you would be amazed how well something recorded in 16 bits can sound when upsampled and remastered at higher resolutions. No need to condemn this one yet.

That's excellent advice, and please advise us when we may begin condemning it then.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: kowalski ()
Date: November 22, 2015 03:04

Hopefully they will re-release the Virgin albums too.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: electricmud ()
Date: November 22, 2015 13:14

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
barbabang
The question is, how was Steels Wheels recorded. I think digitally I'm afraid. If that is the case, could it be that the reslution is 16 bit? In that case an SACD makes no sense. Hope I'm wrong though!

I recall it was recorded digitally, at least from the info originally available on the CD. DDD

Not sure what that exactly means for the future but that's what was indicated when it was first released.

If I remember correctly Steel Wheels was the first Stones LP recorded digitally. There were some interviews around the time of its release. The positive opinion was that it sounded analog but recorded digitally.

Tom

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Kennedy ()
Date: November 22, 2015 19:36

I had always been under the impression that Bigger Bang was the first digital recording they did.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: November 22, 2015 19:48

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Naturalust
Just because it was recorded on 16 bit equipment doesn't necessarily mean the new release will be low quality. It depends a lot on the quality of the original recordings, not just the resolution. There is plenty of ability to record large dynamic ranges with 16 bits and the frequency response limitations of 48K (likely sample rate) are probably not going to be noticeable to 99% of the listeners.

All released versions except the 2009 remaster had good dynamic range and you would be amazed how well something recorded in 16 bits can sound when upsampled and remastered at higher resolutions. No need to condemn this one yet.

That's excellent advice, and please advise us when we may begin condemning it then.

I guess after you hear it would be a logical time. Perhaps condemn was a bit strong and of course I'm only talking about the sound quality of the release, I'm sure there are those who would condemn the music no matter how great the sound quality. Steel Wheels to me was always about seeing them on the road again in 1989, the record was less exciting by a long shot.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: henrik87 ()
Date: November 26, 2015 12:14

Is there any confirmation or cancellation of Universal Japan regarding the SACDs? If I buy from Japan I would only buy the SACD as it is the definite version.

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Date: November 27, 2015 05:47

Quote
Irix
Quote
Winning Ugly VXII

"Talk is Cheap" from the same era is one such example,if I am not mistaken.

While there's unfortunately no hint about Recording/Mixing on the original US/UK CDs, the 1988 japanese release of 'Talk is Cheap' is labled 'AAD'.

"Talk is Cheap" CD's pressed directly from an analog source ..... or from a digital source taken from the original analog (AA) master ??

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Date: November 27, 2015 05:53

Quote
Irix
Quote
kowalski

But it says the CD is made from the 2015 DSD remaster.

Interestingly the Universal Japan website says only: "2015 DSD master that is based on the UK original master", while Universal says on the same website about the 'Dirty Work' SACD: "2011 latest DSD master that is based on the UK original analog tape". Technically it would be no problem to make a DSD version from a 16bit DAT master tape ....

Based on / directly sourced from .... could be different I suppose. DAT is digital tape,correct?? Is it definitely 16-bit recording on the tape. Maybe the source of the CD pressings??

Re: New SACD release has been evaporated.
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 27, 2015 12:25

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII

DAT is digital tape,correct??

Yes - Digital Audio Tape. Dunno if "Steel Wheels" was recorded on DAT - I only wanted to give a technical example for converting a PCM source into DSD.



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