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Rocky DijonQuote
Elmo LewisQuote
Rocky Dijon
Undercover of the Night: 10/10
She Was Hot: 10/10
Tie You Up: 10/10
Wanna Hold You: 10/10
Feel On, Baby: 10/10
Too Much Blood: 6/10
Pretty Beat Up: 6/10
Too Tough: 9/10
All the Way Down: 10/10
It Must Be Hell: 9/10
Rocky, I respect your knowledge of the Stones, but you just rated Side One of UC as a perfect Stones side.......
You're right. I was too kind to Wanna Hold You. It should be 9/10.
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Rocky Dijon
That's an important distinction to make regarding context for scoring.
As for the album title, it's UNDERCOVER. That said, if you look at the bright yellow sticker over the smiling blue girl's breasts, it does appear to be written as two words. The spine of the LP, cassette, vinyl are one word. It's things like this that cause sectarianism.
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Spud
I'm a bit on the fence with B2B.
Some of it I like a lot...but some of it leaves me a bit cold.
It's more adventurous than both VL and ABB ...but somehow not as listenable as either.
[Maybe because it's very much a Mick or Keith album ...rather than a Mick and Keith album ?]
But, On the whole, I think it's a lot better than many of its detractors would have us believe.
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doitywoik
Not sure if it was six or seven, but your're right about the different covers. Wrapped in a brown paper sleeve.
As for Undercover, could it be that the album came with peel-off stickers in some parts of the world but not others? Or just a limited number of copies had the stickers?
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electricmud
Only the US-version had the sticker cover.Germany had the standard version like all other countries.
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HairballQuote
doitywoik
Not sure if it was six or seven, but your're right about the different covers. Wrapped in a brown paper sleeve.
As for Undercover, could it be that the album came with peel-off stickers in some parts of the world but not others? Or just a limited number of copies had the stickers?
Did a quick search and found this old thread - Undercover (Sticker-Cover)Quote
electricmud
Only the US-version had the sticker cover.Germany had the standard version like all other countries.
Mystery solved.
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GasLightStreetQuote
Rocky DijonQuote
Elmo LewisQuote
Rocky Dijon
Undercover of the Night: 10/10
She Was Hot: 10/10
Tie You Up: 10/10
Wanna Hold You: 10/10
Feel On, Baby: 10/10
Too Much Blood: 6/10
Pretty Beat Up: 6/10
Too Tough: 9/10
All the Way Down: 10/10
It Must Be Hell: 9/10
Rocky, I respect your knowledge of the Stones, but you just rated Side One of UC as a perfect Stones side.......
You're right. I was too kind to Wanna Hold You. It should be 9/10.
Oh. So now it's UNDER COVER, eh? When did they change the title to 2 words?
If we were to take how we rate songs on an album as their position in their discography a lot of people's ratings might be considerably different. Rating songs within the context of an album can seem misleading... but it can also reveal how well the songs work on an album... in its context.
Sorry, I am not in vinyl mastering. So, no help on this topic from my side.Quote
treaclefingers
Yes, thanks for the detail. And not to make you 'work' any harder, but are these stats the same for any of the vinyl releases contemporary or otherwise to these CD releases?
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ProfessorWolf
ironbelly i wonder if you could start a page for us looking to collect cds of the best quality that goes into the same detail the you just went thru with undercover except with the rest of there catalogue detailing each of the masterings
or point me in the direction where this list already exists
it be very useful for a lot of us getting more serious about our stones cd collections
Yes. This is true. But most of Japanese versions are digital clones to other editions. Unless, they got something special, like in the case of flat transfers.Quote
Nikkei
No matter how detailed you get it always comes down to the conventional wisdom that CBS is a bit quiet, Virgin the middle ground, Universal loud and compressed and you can also look for a japanese version. That's for every album
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Norbert
What's the best sounding version of "Undercover" ? - no matter if vinyl or CD...
I've got the CBS and the Virgin CDs...
Please share your ideas!
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ironbelly
ProfessorWolf, Norbert
I am fat and lazy . Such a site requires a lot of work. The funny thing - most of that work is already done somewhere else. You just need to dig a bit.
Although the CD catalog of The Rolling Stones is an unholy mess, there are a few simple tips and tricks to pick up the best sounding versions. But still, sometimes you will need to pick on album-by-album or track-by-track basis.
For Decca/London period:
SACD-hybrid remasters from 2002 (sometimes they are called gold CDs) in digipacks or post-2006 single layer redbook only CDs in jewel cases generally are considered the best sounding. These were mastered by Bob Ludwig for 40th anniversary ABKCO re-issue program. SACD-hybrids are out of print and can be expensive. The list is here:
Second to those are old West German London CDs from early – to mid 80s. Ten out of 17 CDs were prepared using flat transfers made by MFSL (at least this is widely spread knowledge). They are different from 2002 remasters because no additional work apart of flat transfer was done (for better or worse). Some of them contain wide stereo mixes unavailable elsewhere. Those London CDs were re-issued multiple times. Some were issued in no less than 20 variants of booklet- CD label combinations. But that story is for ‘advanced’ collectors. There are Japanese counterparts to those discs, for example, P25L 25031 - P25L 25050 series. Those are similar (but sometimes different sounding with respect) to West German. These are not extremely rare but could be overpriced on secondary market.
For those who loves mono versions – 2016 In Mono box. It is good, also mastered by Ludwig. But it is out of print. Ebay and similar platforms are floated with Chinese counterfeits. They are bit-to-bit clones of the official release and can be cheap.
Stay away from so called old ABKCO editions (those with "Digitally Remastered from Original Master Recordings" on the bottom of the cover). Most of them are awful.
Details can be checked here
[www.lukpac.org]
This is outdated work but still good reference site. Luke used to pop up here and is regular on Steve Hoffman’s Music Forum. You can track down the updates in his posts over there.
For Rolling Stones Records period
Virgin remasters from 1994 (for 1971-1991 albums) are universally considered as the best sounding option. However, several opportunists (me included) found them a bit harsh and aggressive. You need to try and compare by yourself. On positive side – you can get those discs easy, and they present the best sound quality for a penny.
Users with good systems and thick wallets head either for Japanese 2011 SHM-SACD discs prepared from flat transfers from original UK tapes or for their downsampled to CDDA format counterparts SHM-platinum or SHM-CDs. Most of those (apart the recent re-issues from 2020) are out of print and could be rather pricey and hard to get. CD list is here (2011 SACD editions are not listed).
SHM-Platinum CD, 2013-2015, out of print
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-40011 4988005788368
EOMS UICY-40001 4988005782113
GHS UICY-40021 4988005791726
IORR UICY-40031 4988005798343
BAB UICY-40022 4988005791733
LYL UICY-40032/3 4988005798350
SG UICY-40012 4988005788375
ER UICY-40062 4988005816580
TY UICY-40002 4988005782120
SL UICY-40052 4988005811578
UC UICY-40072 4988005825520
DW UICY-40067 4988005821058
SW UICY-40162 4988031125410
FP UICY-40163 4988031125427
SHM-CD (limited mini-vinyl replica, 2013-2015, out of print)
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-75886 4988005788467
EOMS UICY-75762 4988005782212
GHS UICY-75931 4988005791825
IORR UICY-76017 4988005798442
BAB UICY-75932 4988005791832
LYL UICY-76018 4988005798459
SG UICY-75887 4988005788474
ER UICY-76160 4988005816634
TY UICY-75763 4988005782229
SL UICY-76096 4988005811677
UC UICY-76357 4988005825575
DW UICY-76214 4988005821102
SW UICY-77613 4988031125434
FP UICY-77614 4988031125441
SHM-CD, 2020 re-issue
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-79241 4988031397541
EOMS UICY-79242 4988031397558
IORR UICY-79243 4988031397565
BAB UICY-79244 4988031397572
SG UICY-79245 4988031397589
ER UICY-79246 4988031397596
TY UICY-79247 4988031397619
UC UICY-79248 4988031397619
DW UICY-79249 4988031397626
SW UICY-79250 4988031397633
VL UICY-79251 4988031397640
BTB UICY-79252 4988031397657
ABB UICY-79253 4988031397664
BAL UICY-79254 4988031397671
Here GHS is absent (replaced on the marked by Giles Martin’s 2020 remaster) and from VL till ABB inferior 2009 brickwalled remaster was used.
Old CBS CDs are mixed bag. Actually, from Black And Blue till Steel Wheels they contain the quite similar digital material as Virgin CDs. But CBS CDs are less compressed, while show the same tonality/EQ choices. I found those sound better than Virgins (to some extend). At least they left more room to be cranked up. From Sticky Fingers to IORR the discs are kind of ‘dull and muffed’. But still, they are warm sounding.
Stay away from 2009 remaster (and recent remasters too). Those are good only for ‘nomad listening experience’ in public transport, or in the car, or on earbuds during jogging. Here one can hear more details because extensive compression makes everything loud and upfront, even if the record is not well mastered form audiophile point of view.
Pray there was no old Japanese ‘black triangle’ CD or West German-for-USA ‘target’ CD edition for particular album. No matter what master tape was used, there always be a person with a claim that it is a CD with an ultimate mastering (in three out of four existing cases that person, probably, will be not that far from truth. But the burden on the wallet will be almost unbearable).
Send 10 dollars to the Church of the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Jesus, located somewhere in Los Angeles, California, and pray twice there was no Japanese limited mini-vinyl replica edition with a bonus track and a special OBI. This one will be the winner of sound quality instantly. Because OBI adds at least two units to Dynamic Range and mini-vinyl paper jacket another two. At least I was told so by a collector of Japanese rarities .
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Jimmy C
Any idea what version above is streaming on Apple Music in their "Apple Digital Master" and "Lossless" format?
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ironbelly
SACD-hybrid remasters from 2002
For those who loves mono versions – 2016 In Mono box.
Quote
ironbelly
ProfessorWolf, Norbert
I am fat and lazy . Such a site requires a lot of work. The funny thing - most of that work is already done somewhere else. You just need to dig a bit.
Although the CD catalog of The Rolling Stones is an unholy mess, there are a few simple tips and tricks to pick up the best sounding versions. But still, sometimes you will need to pick on album-by-album or track-by-track basis.
For Decca/London period:
SACD-hybrid remasters from 2002 (sometimes they are called gold CDs) in digipacks or post-2006 single layer redbook only CDs in jewel cases generally are considered the best sounding. These were mastered by Bob Ludwig for 40th anniversary ABKCO re-issue program. SACD-hybrids are out of print and can be expensive. The list is here:
Second to those are old West German London CDs from early – to mid 80s. Ten out of 17 CDs were prepared using flat transfers made by MFSL (at least this is widely spread knowledge). They are different from 2002 remasters because no additional work apart of flat transfer was done (for better or worse). Some of them contain wide stereo mixes unavailable elsewhere. Those London CDs were re-issued multiple times. Some were issued in no less than 20 variants of booklet- CD label combinations. But that story is for ‘advanced’ collectors. There are Japanese counterparts to those discs, for example, P25L 25031 - P25L 25050 series. Those are similar (but sometimes different sounding with respect) to West German. These are not extremely rare but could be overpriced on secondary market.
For those who loves mono versions – 2016 In Mono box. It is good, also mastered by Ludwig. But it is out of print. Ebay and similar platforms are floated with Chinese counterfeits. They are bit-to-bit clones of the official release and can be cheap.
Stay away from so called old ABKCO editions (those with "Digitally Remastered from Original Master Recordings" on the bottom of the cover). Most of them are awful.
Details can be checked here
[www.lukpac.org]
This is outdated work but still good reference site. Luke used to pop up here and is regular on Steve Hoffman’s Music Forum. You can track down the updates in his posts over there.
For Rolling Stones Records period
Virgin remasters from 1994 (for 1971-1991 albums) are universally considered as the best sounding option. However, several opportunists (me included) found them a bit harsh and aggressive. You need to try and compare by yourself. On positive side – you can get those discs easy, and they present the best sound quality for a penny.
Users with good systems and thick wallets head either for Japanese 2011 SHM-SACD discs prepared from flat transfers from original UK tapes or for their downsampled to CDDA format counterparts SHM-platinum or SHM-CDs. Most of those (apart the recent re-issues from 2020) are out of print and could be rather pricey and hard to get. CD list is here (2011 SACD editions are not listed).
SHM-Platinum CD, 2013-2015, out of print
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-40011 4988005788368
EOMS UICY-40001 4988005782113
GHS UICY-40021 4988005791726
IORR UICY-40031 4988005798343
BAB UICY-40022 4988005791733
LYL UICY-40032/3 4988005798350
SG UICY-40012 4988005788375
ER UICY-40062 4988005816580
TY UICY-40002 4988005782120
SL UICY-40052 4988005811578
UC UICY-40072 4988005825520
DW UICY-40067 4988005821058
SW UICY-40162 4988031125410
FP UICY-40163 4988031125427
SHM-CD (limited mini-vinyl replica, 2013-2015, out of print)
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-75886 4988005788467
EOMS UICY-75762 4988005782212
GHS UICY-75931 4988005791825
IORR UICY-76017 4988005798442
BAB UICY-75932 4988005791832
LYL UICY-76018 4988005798459
SG UICY-75887 4988005788474
ER UICY-76160 4988005816634
TY UICY-75763 4988005782229
SL UICY-76096 4988005811677
UC UICY-76357 4988005825575
DW UICY-76214 4988005821102
SW UICY-77613 4988031125434
FP UICY-77614 4988031125441
SHM-CD, 2020 re-issue
Name Catalog EAN
SF UICY-79241 4988031397541
EOMS UICY-79242 4988031397558
IORR UICY-79243 4988031397565
BAB UICY-79244 4988031397572
SG UICY-79245 4988031397589
ER UICY-79246 4988031397596
TY UICY-79247 4988031397619
UC UICY-79248 4988031397619
DW UICY-79249 4988031397626
SW UICY-79250 4988031397633
VL UICY-79251 4988031397640
BTB UICY-79252 4988031397657
ABB UICY-79253 4988031397664
BAL UICY-79254 4988031397671
Here GHS is absent (replaced on the marked by Giles Martin’s 2020 remaster) and from VL till ABB inferior 2009 brickwalled remaster was used.
Old CBS CDs are mixed bag. Actually, from Black And Blue till Steel Wheels they contain the quite similar digital material as Virgin CDs. But CBS CDs are less compressed, while show the same tonality/EQ choices. I found those sound better than Virgins (to some extend). At least they left more room to be cranked up. From Sticky Fingers to IORR the discs are kind of ‘dull and muffed’. But still, they are warm sounding.
Stay away from 2009 remaster (and recent remasters too). Those are good only for ‘nomad listening experience’ in public transport, or in the car, or on earbuds during jogging. Here one can hear more details because extensive compression makes everything loud and upfront, even if the record is not well mastered form audiophile point of view.
Pray there was no old Japanese ‘black triangle’ CD or West German-for-USA ‘target’ CD edition for particular album. No matter what master tape was used, there always be a person with a claim that it is a CD with an ultimate mastering (in three out of four existing cases that person, probably, will be not that far from truth. But the burden on the wallet will be almost unbearable).
Send 10 dollars to the Church of the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Jesus, located somewhere in Los Angeles, California, and pray twice there was no Japanese limited mini-vinyl replica edition with a bonus track and a special OBI. This one will be the winner of sound quality instantly. Because OBI adds at least two units to Dynamic Range and mini-vinyl paper jacket another two. At least I was told so by a collector of Japanese rarities .