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Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: September 4, 2015 01:32

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GasLightStreet
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Naturalust
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treaclefingers
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Naturalust
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GasLightStreet
I don't hear any loopage. Seems like Mick was pretty straight up about it. Why would they loop something when they recorded all of their songs for 10 minutes a take?

It's actually a very common studio technique, even when long takes are done. It is so terribly easy to do with ProTools and there is almost always a phrase or number of bars that is so much better than the rest that the urge to do it is pretty strong. I haven't listened to PMS closely enough while trying to evaluate whether that was done or not but it's likely the original tracks were all transferred to ProTools when Jagger did the add'l vocals so it's certainly possible.

...and big freakin' deal if he did. So what does that mean? Mick did a fantastic job. If you like the song, you like it, you don't need to go looking for studio 'tricks'. Who the hell cares, it's not as though it's a live album they're trying to fool us with overdubs.

As for the 'old man vocal' comments...I think we just need to get over ourselves.

Settle there treacle. I don't think anyone insinuated looping was a bad thing here, I certainly didn't and was just trying to answer some peoples questions and explain how common and easy it would have been to do with the music on this one.

Some of us like to talk about the tunes in more detail than "I like it" or I hate it", actually discern some of the reasons. The comments made here about the relative volume or sound of Micks vocal on this one are relevant to the discussion. It my case it's the only thing I don't like about the tune and that's significant since it was recorded decades later. smoking smiley

I know looping is easy with Pro Tools. But I don't buy it, not with Plundered. BRIDGES TO BABYLON, yes, they were clear about that. Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

i just listened to plundered my soul again. the bass at least sounds looped, or bill was uncharacteristically uninventive whilst playing on that track. (assuming bill was playing bass).

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: September 4, 2015 01:43

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Turner68
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GasLightStreet
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Naturalust
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treaclefingers
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Naturalust
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GasLightStreet
I don't hear any loopage. Seems like Mick was pretty straight up about it. Why would they loop something when they recorded all of their songs for 10 minutes a take?

It's actually a very common studio technique, even when long takes are done. It is so terribly easy to do with ProTools and there is almost always a phrase or number of bars that is so much better than the rest that the urge to do it is pretty strong. I haven't listened to PMS closely enough while trying to evaluate whether that was done or not but it's likely the original tracks were all transferred to ProTools when Jagger did the add'l vocals so it's certainly possible.

...and big freakin' deal if he did. So what does that mean? Mick did a fantastic job. If you like the song, you like it, you don't need to go looking for studio 'tricks'. Who the hell cares, it's not as though it's a live album they're trying to fool us with overdubs.

As for the 'old man vocal' comments...I think we just need to get over ourselves.

Settle there treacle. I don't think anyone insinuated looping was a bad thing here, I certainly didn't and was just trying to answer some peoples questions and explain how common and easy it would have been to do with the music on this one.

Some of us like to talk about the tunes in more detail than "I like it" or I hate it", actually discern some of the reasons. The comments made here about the relative volume or sound of Micks vocal on this one are relevant to the discussion. It my case it's the only thing I don't like about the tune and that's significant since it was recorded decades later. smoking smiley

I know looping is easy with Pro Tools. But I don't buy it, not with Plundered. BRIDGES TO BABYLON, yes, they were clear about that. Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

i just listened to plundered my soul again. the bass at least sounds looped, or bill was uncharacteristically uninventive whilst playing on that track. (assuming bill was playing bass).

It's a lot more common than some would believe. Sometimes just small parts or phrases and it usually takes critical listening to identify. Probably a bit easier to identify with the Stones because they rarely play the exact same thing. twice.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 01:43

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GasLightStreet
Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

Jagger has said many a thing which turned out to not be true and the whole Plundered episode was weird from start to finish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-04 01:44 by His Majesty.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: September 4, 2015 01:46

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His Majesty
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GasLightStreet
Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

Jagger has said many a thing which turned out to not be true and the whole Plundered episode was weird from start to finish.

Well, sure, but it was recent ie fresh, which leads me to believe Mick isn't making things up. The talk about it from Jagger and Taylor is hilarious considering Keith didn't even know about it.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 01:57

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GasLightStreet
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His Majesty
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GasLightStreet
Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

Jagger has said many a thing which turned out to not be true and the whole Plundered episode was weird from start to finish.

Well, sure, but it was recent ie fresh, which leads me to believe Mick isn't making things up. The talk about it from Jagger and Taylor is hilarious considering Keith didn't even know about it.

Even with recent things. It might have been seen as bad promotion to say it was looped/edited. That'd kill some of the hyped up authenticity. They were quite vague about some things in some of the interviews surrounding the Exile-re,re,re,re,re,release.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:06

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His Majesty
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GasLightStreet
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His Majesty
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GasLightStreet
Jagger said Plundered was finished except for a lead and vocals and didn't need editing.

Jagger has said many a thing which turned out to not be true and the whole Plundered episode was weird from start to finish.

Well, sure, but it was recent ie fresh, which leads me to believe Mick isn't making things up. The talk about it from Jagger and Taylor is hilarious considering Keith didn't even know about it.

Even with recent things. It might have been seen as bad promotion to say it was looped/edited. That'd kill some of the hyped up authenticity. They were quite vague about some things in some of the interviews surrounding the Exile-re,re,re,re,re,release.

Of course it was edited, every song goes through an editing phase to clean up rough spots, delete transients, fix mistakes. Sometimes arrangements are even tweaked, intros, outro, and bridges changed. I don't think this is necessarily bad promotion, even if looping was used, it's just studio business as usual.

When Mick says the backing tracks were already done, he just means they had enough to work with without re-recording them. It doesn't insinuate they didn't touch them up or change anything.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:18

I know all that, the track was obviously worked on in preperation for the modern overdubs.

Seems to me they tried to build up an impression to imply that even the words and melody might have been from the time.

Coming out and stating that parts or one part was looped to create the backing and Mick created all new words and melody would damage their promo speak that it's an authentic Exile era unreleased track.

They were so weird about it.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:26

Looking further into this recently, there are quotes from Keith 2010 (one was with Chicago paper/interview) where Keith talked about listening to the old Exhile out-takes (he described it bringing back Nellcote basement memories/dust smell)
And I believe a quote from Was saying he got a fax from Keith saying basically: 'go ahead pull up old Exhile tapes/ do your best/ my okay'

So the claim 'Keith not even aware' seems untrue!

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:38

We know and they know it wasn't all recorded in the basement and him saying go ahead doesn't mean he was aware of Taylor being brought in.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:41

i'm surprised to see so much interest in such a minor song. they wanted to milk a few extra bucks out of their archives, and so they did. if we had keith's fax to don was i'm willing to bet even money what he said was "if you can find something you can use out of these tapes to make a few more buck by all means be my guest"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-04 02:53 by Turner68.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:44

See, it's not a minor song to me. It's a true Exile gem that was never heard before. An old gem, with a new varnish on it. And it's strange.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 02:47

It would not surprise me to learn it originates from 1973. grinning smiley

Where did they say the backing was recorded?

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: September 4, 2015 04:25

RECORDED: July and October–November 1971, Villa Nellcôte, Villefranche- sur- Mer, France (Keith Richards’ rented house) Autumn 2009, Henson Recording Studios, The Village, Mix This! (All in Los Angeles); One East Studio, New York City; Unidentified studio in London

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: September 4, 2015 04:42

Yup - this may be their best song ever.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: September 4, 2015 04:53

easy easy Chris ... take a deep breath and find a bit of shelter



ROCKMAN

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: September 4, 2015 05:04

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Rockman
easy easy Chris ... take a deep breath and find a bit of shelter

Ok I understand where you are coming from .... the final lyrics are fantastic by the master himself...."yeah baby you plundered my soul...yeah ya plundered my soul..

need I say more??? (no offense)

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: September 4, 2015 05:14

YEAH ... I lurv that line ... and the word Plundered
............... I'll know what that feels like forever



ROCKMAN

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: September 4, 2015 05:44

Thanks Rockman- for every contribution- unreal..... folks don't get how powerful the lyrics of this song are meaningful to every day life,

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:16

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RipThisBone
PLUNDERED MY SOUL live instead of Tumbling Dice in 2013 at Hyde Park would have been epic.

smileys with beer

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:20

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Turner68
i'm surprised to see so much interest in such a minor song. they wanted to milk a few extra bucks out of their archives, and so they did. if we had keith's fax to don was i'm willing to bet even money what he said was "if you can find something you can use out of these tapes to make a few more buck by all means be my guest"

Well and who cares really, as long as the result is great, which is what you have with Tattoo You, and what you have with PMS.

I really couldn't have expected a song this good to surface seemingly out of the blue.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:25

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Naturalust
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treaclefingers
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Naturalust
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GasLightStreet
I don't hear any loopage. Seems like Mick was pretty straight up about it. Why would they loop something when they recorded all of their songs for 10 minutes a take?

It's actually a very common studio technique, even when long takes are done. It is so terribly easy to do with ProTools and there is almost always a phrase or number of bars that is so much better than the rest that the urge to do it is pretty strong. I haven't listened to PMS closely enough while trying to evaluate whether that was done or not but it's likely the original tracks were all transferred to ProTools when Jagger did the add'l vocals so it's certainly possible.

...and big freakin' deal if he did. So what does that mean? Mick did a fantastic job. If you like the song, you like it, you don't need to go looking for studio 'tricks'. Who the hell cares, it's not as though it's a live album they're trying to fool us with overdubs.

As for the 'old man vocal' comments...I think we just need to get over ourselves.

Settle there treacle. I don't think anyone insinuated looping was a bad thing here, I certainly didn't and was just trying to answer some peoples questions and explain how common and easy it would have been to do with the music on this one.

Some of us like to talk about the tunes in more detail than "I like it" or I hate it", actually discern some of the reasons. The comments made here about the relative volume or sound of Micks vocal on this one are relevant to the discussion. It my case it's the only thing I don't like about the tune and that's significant since it was recorded decades later. smoking smiley

Well that's where I would disagree with you...I think the insinuation was in fact that they just took a riff and looped it and made a song, belittling the idea of it. That wasn't you BTW NL. My only point was who cares what they did as long as the result is fantastic. People are certainly free to disagree with the notion that's it a great song...I would only say there seem to be an awful lot of people that think it is a great song.

I think it's a bit of a joke when to justify one's negative opinion of the song, one has to go with MJ's using his old voice, or they are digitally looping bits together.

So the hell what?

That's it from me on this one....carry on!

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:41

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treaclefingers
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Turner68
i'm surprised to see so much interest in such a minor song. they wanted to milk a few extra bucks out of their archives, and so they did. if we had keith's fax to don was i'm willing to bet even money what he said was "if you can find something you can use out of these tapes to make a few more buck by all means be my guest"

Well and who cares really, as long as the result is great, which is what you have with Tattoo You, and what you have with PMS.

I really couldn't have expected a song this good to surface seemingly out of the blue.

It's an awful song

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:44

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Turner68
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treaclefingers
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Turner68
i'm surprised to see so much interest in such a minor song. they wanted to milk a few extra bucks out of their archives, and so they did. if we had keith's fax to don was i'm willing to bet even money what he said was "if you can find something you can use out of these tapes to make a few more buck by all means be my guest"

Well and who cares really, as long as the result is great, which is what you have with Tattoo You, and what you have with PMS.

I really couldn't have expected a song this good to surface seemingly out of the blue.

It's an awful song

...and it's too bad you think that, not that I care but because I think you're missing out. What annoys me are the ridiculous justifications for not liking it. If you don't like it, that fine but don't give me it's because of MJ's vocal, or they've looped parts to complete it. I think that's garbage...if you hate the song, you hate it.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:53

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treaclefingers
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Turner68
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treaclefingers
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Turner68
i'm surprised to see so much interest in such a minor song. they wanted to milk a few extra bucks out of their archives, and so they did. if we had keith's fax to don was i'm willing to bet even money what he said was "if you can find something you can use out of these tapes to make a few more buck by all means be my guest"

Well and who cares really, as long as the result is great, which is what you have with Tattoo You, and what you have with PMS.

I really couldn't have expected a song this good to surface seemingly out of the blue.

It's an awful song

...and it's too bad you think that, not that I care but because I think you're missing out. What annoys me are the ridiculous justifications for not liking it. If you don't like it, that fine but don't give me it's because of MJ's vocal, or they've looped parts to complete it. I think that's garbage...if you hate the song, you hate it.

I actually am able to like some parts of a song and not other parts, but maybe I'm just weird that way. In any case, I can honestly say there is nothing about this song that I particularly like. It's not really a song at all. It's a cheap attempt at cashing in on nostalgia.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: September 4, 2015 09:25

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treaclefingers
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RipThisBone
PLUNDERED MY SOUL live instead of Tumbling Dice in 2013 at Hyde Park would have been epic.

smileys with beer

In addition, it might have been an extra opportunity to feature Mick Taylor on another song live. Being a song with no fixed routines as to who plays what and when.

And it is still possible, if there will be a wish to do it!
hot smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-04 09:26 by Witness.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: September 4, 2015 10:05

Someone asked a while ago if there is any other attempt - than "Plundered My Soul" - to capture some of the stylistic magic of "Tumbling Dice", and even though I put some thought on it, I couldn't pick any.

But yesterday, when I was having my well-deserved beer at my local, suddenly - and quite out of the blue - a certain Stones song I haven't listened for ages came out of the speakers, and took my attention.

It was "Mixed Emotions". Probably that issue was still in my mind, and I started, first time ever, to think the tune in terms of "Dice". And it made sense. Even at the time when it was released, back in 1989, I remember it sounded familiar - some typical Stones groove in it, easy to recognize. There was this certain retro-feel, even though it wasn't so easy to pick any particular song - or a league of them - in their catalog being very similar to it.

But now, after "Plundered", when we have two of them - the variants of that particular groove - I think "Emotions" fits rather nicely into that league. That rather mid-tempo, dancable groove, the way the rhythm is emphasized, the 'accent'of it... (even though "Emotions" is a bit more straight-forward rhythmic-wise, and having less that mystique x-factor, than the other two).

Like I said, that never had occurred to me earlier, but probably most of you find my claim not very convincing (since there is not any EXILE feel or anything like that in "Emotions" and probably Keith's guitar sounds these days a bit too obvious), but c'mon, people, give "Mixed Emotions" another listen and think of "Dice" (or "Plundered" if you like)...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-04 10:18 by Doxa.

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 4, 2015 13:54

Quote
Doxa
Someone asked a while ago if there is any other attempt - than "Plundered My Soul" - to capture some of the stylistic magic of "Tumbling Dice", and even though I put some thought on it, I couldn't pick any.

But yesterday, when I was having my well-deserved beer at my local, suddenly - and quite out of the blue - a certain Stones song I haven't listened for ages came out of the speakers, and took my attention.

It was "Mixed Emotions". Probably that issue was still in my mind, and I started, first time ever, to think the tune in terms of "Dice". And it made sense. Even at the time when it was released, back in 1989, I remember it sounded familiar - some typical Stones groove in it, easy to recognize. There was this certain retro-feel, even though it wasn't so easy to pick any particular song - or a league of them - in their catalog being very similar to it.

But now, after "Plundered", when we have two of them - the variants of that particular groove - I think "Emotions" fits rather nicely into that league. That rather mid-tempo, dancable groove, the way the rhythm is emphasized, the 'accent'of it... (even though "Emotions" is a bit more straight-forward rhythmic-wise, and having less that mystique x-factor, than the other two).

Like I said, that never had occurred to me earlier, but probably most of you find my claim not very convincing (since there is not any EXILE feel or anything like that in "Emotions" and probably Keith's guitar sounds these days a bit too obvious), but c'mon, people, give "Mixed Emotions" another listen and think of "Dice" (or "Plundered" if you like)...

- Doxa


Agreed Doxa. Besides I happen to like Mixed Emotions: a good song!

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 14:14

Quote
35love
RECORDED: July and October–November 1971, Villa Nellcôte, Villefranche- sur- Mer, France (Keith Richards’ rented house) Autumn 2009, Henson Recording Studios, The Village, Mix This! (All in Los Angeles); One East Studio, New York City; Unidentified studio in London

When and where did they state it was recorded in France?

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 4, 2015 14:16

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TravelinMan
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His Majesty
Very unlikely they looped it back in 70's.

They looped part of "I Don't Know Why" in the 70's.

Or copied it, whatever.

The Stones didn't. winking smiley

Re: Plundered My Soul
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: September 4, 2015 14:23

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kleermaker
Quote
Doxa
Someone asked a while ago if there is any other attempt - than "Plundered My Soul" - to capture some of the stylistic magic of "Tumbling Dice", and even though I put some thought on it, I couldn't pick any.

But yesterday, when I was having my well-deserved beer at my local, suddenly - and quite out of the blue - a certain Stones song I haven't listened for ages came out of the speakers, and took my attention.

It was "Mixed Emotions". Probably that issue was still in my mind, and I started, first time ever, to think the tune in terms of "Dice". And it made sense. Even at the time when it was released, back in 1989, I remember it sounded familiar - some typical Stones groove in it, easy to recognize. There was this certain retro-feel, even though it wasn't so easy to pick any particular song - or a league of them - in their catalog being very similar to it.

But now, after "Plundered", when we have two of them - the variants of that particular groove - I think "Emotions" fits rather nicely into that league. That rather mid-tempo, dancable groove, the way the rhythm is emphasized, the 'accent'of it... (even though "Emotions" is a bit more straight-forward rhythmic-wise, and having less that mystique x-factor, than the other two).

Like I said, that never had occurred to me earlier, but probably most of you find my claim not very convincing (since there is not any EXILE feel or anything like that in "Emotions" and probably Keith's guitar sounds these days a bit too obvious), but c'mon, people, give "Mixed Emotions" another listen and think of "Dice" (or "Plundered" if you like)...

- Doxa


Agreed Doxa. Besides I happen to like Mixed Emotions: a good song!

I like the fact they have on film the collaboration of creating this gem.

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