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lapaz62

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GasLightStreet

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lapaz62
The film makes it look as though it was during Sympathy.

So you haven't seen the film. Perhaps you should watch it.

Just a simple mistake, but thanks for your rudeness anyway. It was this film ( Crossfire Hurricane ). I was thinking of, about 6 mins in on this clip.
[www.youtube.com]

Just a simple edit would've taken care of it. Still, an odd simple mistake though, seeing that nothing in that clip suggests SFTD was being played at the time Hunters got stabbed. Have you watched GIMME SHELTER? It doesn't seem like it.

All Stones fans should watch Gimme Shelter.

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet
It was during Under My Thumb.

A simple look on Google would tell anyone that if they had any interest in talking about what happened. But instead we get the usual 'it happened during SFTD' bullshit. What Mick said has nothing to do with anything, he was just talking to fill time. Nothing funny ever happened during that song that I've ever read ANYWHERE.

Regurgitating bad and ignorant press info about the death of a black man killed by the Angels is unforgivable.

The film gives the impression Under My Thumb is used to try and settle down the crowd. Sort of a unforgettable bit of footage where the camera operator is
focusing on a guy standing on the side of the stage - not very far from Mick.
This guy looked like he was about ready to "blow a gasket". The shot of him
contorting goes on for a long time until a "Angel" takes care of him in their own special way.

The film does not give "the impression Under My Thumb is used to try and settle down the crowd". That makes zero sense. Under My Thumb was played on the tour usually preceded by Love In Vain but also on some nights You Gotta Move with occasional following I'm Free and or Prodigal Son. It wasn't played to "settle down the crowd".

What is with the 'impression' in this misleadingly titled thread about the movie? First it was "makes it look as though it was during Sympathy" and now this.

Well I didn't plan on an argument and I do realize Under My Thumb was played
as part of the 69 setlist. As for the rest I will watch the film again but my
recollection is Jagger even changes the lyric in the closing of the song as
an attempt to calm the chaois at Altamont. As far as when the stabbing occurred,I was referring to the impression the film gave me. This may or may not be the actual facts. No offense was intended.

It's not an argument, it's an observation. You basically said Mick singing "I pray that it's alright" gave you the impression he was trying to calm the crowd down. THAT calms down a crowd? Hunter gets murdered after the song ends!!!!

mick was clearly wasted out of his mind during the concert. he struggles to form complete sentences. keith is the one who threatened to stop playing if people didn't cool it, and that's what they should have done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-21 19:07 by Turner68.

It's all a bit stop-start to be considered for an official release in its entirety. Altamont is infamous, but to me it just looks like one unpleasant abberation on the back of an amazing tour. If they want to release something from 1969, there are surely far better shows in them thar vaults??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-21 19:34 by Father Ted.

I've always wanted the real version of JJF from that tour, not the fake one on GYYYO! with the stupid vocal overdubs and how come the version on GYYYO sounds so bizarrely different to the one in GIMME SHELTER? Certainly they didn't change how they played the songs that much.

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GasLightStreet

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet
It was during Under My Thumb.

A simple look on Google would tell anyone that if they had any interest in talking about what happened. But instead we get the usual 'it happened during SFTD' bullshit. What Mick said has nothing to do with anything, he was just talking to fill time. Nothing funny ever happened during that song that I've ever read ANYWHERE.

Regurgitating bad and ignorant press info about the death of a black man killed by the Angels is unforgivable.

The film gives the impression Under My Thumb is used to try and settle down the crowd. Sort of a unforgettable bit of footage where the camera operator is
focusing on a guy standing on the side of the stage - not very far from Mick.
This guy looked like he was about ready to "blow a gasket". The shot of him
contorting goes on for a long time until a "Angel" takes care of him in their own special way.

The film does not give "the impression Under My Thumb is used to try and settle down the crowd". That makes zero sense. Under My Thumb was played on the tour usually preceded by Love In Vain but also on some nights You Gotta Move with occasional following I'm Free and or Prodigal Son. It wasn't played to "settle down the crowd".

What is with the 'impression' in this misleadingly titled thread about the movie? First it was "makes it look as though it was during Sympathy" and now this.

Well I didn't plan on an argument and I do realize Under My Thumb was played
as part of the 69 setlist. As for the rest I will watch the film again but my
recollection is Jagger even changes the lyric in the closing of the song as
an attempt to calm the chaois at Altamont. As far as when the stabbing occurred,I was referring to the impression the film gave me. This may or may not be the actual facts. No offense was intended.

It's not an argument, it's an observation. You basically said Mick singing "I pray that it's alright" gave you the impression he was trying to calm the crowd down. THAT calms down a crowd? Hunter gets murdered after the song ends!!!!

Well it still gives me that impression along with what Mick tells the audience
before the song starts. I think Mick's intent is pretty clear and, sadly, not
entirely effective. As far as what song was playing when Hunter was killed this should be heard at the end of the film. Mick is sitting in the Directors studio while the footage of hunter holding the gun is played back for him. I think you are correct and it is the tail end of Under My Thumb - but I'm going by memory.

It is at the end of Under My Thumb.

Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

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Turner68
Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

Wow...

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Turner68
Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

I know. I don't understand. This shitstupidly named thread has certainly illuminated some dents in the facade.

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

I know. I don't understand. This shitstupidly named thread has certainly illuminated some dents in the facade.

Thanks for your valuable input. You both seem like very pleasent people.

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

I know. I don't understand. This shitstupidly named thread has certainly illuminated some dents in the facade.

Thanks for your valuable input. You both seem like very pleasent people.

Ah, the elegant response. You have to understand something: there are facts and there are opinions and thoughts. Opinions and thoughts can be wrong. Ignoring facts and not looking into something is a choice, among other things.

Instead of going on about what you (anyone) think about something on a fan board for a band about the band the board is about with some very serious fans on it and being told facts by people that makes what you say not wrong but not right about it, you (anyone) are going to get learnt.

That's all it is. It's not 'what a farking idiot' - it could be if it went on and you had a ridiculous name - but more of a 'come ON just LOOK', a collective shaking of the head.

It happens.

I know Stanley was trying to sell a book but his book does cover the sequence of events pretty well. It is hard to tell what song Hunter was killed in from the footage because Under My Thumb ends with Mick singing "I pray that it's all right" and then you see the killing.

bring it on! would love a complete soundboard show....best live Gimme Shelter

So when you're watching the movie and Under My Thumb ends and Meredith Hunter gets stabbed and then dies shortly after there's no song playing.

So... why is it so hard to tell what song was playing when no song was playing when Hunter got stabbed and Under My Thumb had ended before he got stabbed? And why hasn't this thread title been changed! It is in quotes though, which, I guess, technically says it's not true.

[www.youtube.com]

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GasLightStreet

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swimtothemoon

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GasLightStreet

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Turner68
Of course it is. It's not a matter of "I think"... This is all readily found via Google if you haven't bothered to watch the movie carefully, it is not a murder mystery it is all on film and on YouTube. It takes less time to find the answer on the internet than it does to post "I think that maybe ..." On IORR.

I know. I don't understand. This shitstupidly named thread has certainly illuminated some dents in the facade.

Thanks for your valuable input. You both seem like very pleasent people.

Ah, the elegant response. You have to understand something: there are facts and there are opinions and thoughts. Opinions and thoughts can be wrong. Ignoring facts and not looking into something is a choice, among other things.

Instead of going on about what you (anyone) think about something on a fan board for a band about the band the board is about with some very serious fans on it and being told facts by people that makes what you say not wrong but not right about it, you (anyone) are going to get learnt.

That's all it is. It's not 'what a farking idiot' - it could be if it went on and you had a ridiculous name - but more of a 'come ON just LOOK', a collective shaking of the head.

It happens.

Well..at least Charlie's wolf is back. Now it's all good.

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Turner68
mick was clearly wasted out of his mind during the concert. he struggles to form complete sentences. keith is the one who threatened to stop playing if people didn't cool it, and that's what they should have done.

Pretty sure that wouldn't have helped matters much Turner. They said they didn't want to go on in the first place after hearing about the weird violent vibe and Marty Balin being punched out but only did so to prevent a riot. I imagine if they would have quit playing it would have just made a lot of angry people more angry and created new anger in a bunch of others. I think it was quite brave of them to continue on actually and that they did for the reasons I mention. No question they wanted to split the scene and they obviously weren't getting paid for the performance. Imagine all that anger being directed at the Stones!

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Naturalust

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Turner68
mick was clearly wasted out of his mind during the concert. he struggles to form complete sentences. keith is the one who threatened to stop playing if people didn't cool it, and that's what they should have done.

Pretty sure that wouldn't have helped matters much Turner. They said they didn't want to go on in the first place after hearing about the weird violent vibe and Marty Balin being punched out but only did so to prevent a riot. I imagine if they would have quit playing it would have just made a lot of angry people more angry and created new anger in a bunch of others. I think it was quite brave of them to continue on actually and that they did for the reasons I mention. No question they wanted to split the scene and they obviously weren't getting paid for the performance. Imagine all that anger being directed at the Stones!

it could have gone either way, i agree. not fair to armchair quarterback.

Hunter gets killed at the beginning of UMT #1.
The song is stopped.
Mick pleads with the crowd...
Then they restart the song (the one we see on gimme shelter).
Hunter is not killed at the end of UMT #2 as the movie shows it...he has already died.
So the stuff Mick says in trying to keep the crowd cool and to "sit down" is after the murder.

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Eleanor Rigby
Hunter gets killed at the beginning of UMT #1.
The song is stopped.
Mick pleads with the crowd...
Then they restart the song (the one we see on gimme shelter).
Hunter is not killed at the end of UMT #2 as the movie shows it...he has already died.
So the stuff Mick says in trying to keep the crowd cool and to "sit down" is after the murder.

indeed, it's worth noting that the band had no idea what happened to Meredith until they were far away from Altamont.

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Turner68

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Eleanor Rigby
Hunter gets killed at the beginning of UMT #1.
The song is stopped.
Mick pleads with the crowd...
Then they restart the song (the one we see on gimme shelter).
Hunter is not killed at the end of UMT #2 as the movie shows it...he has already died.
So the stuff Mick says in trying to keep the crowd cool and to "sit down" is after the murder.

indeed, it's worth noting that the band had no idea what happened to Meredith until they were far away from Altamont.

True..although sam cutler lets mick know something bad has happened. .i think they all knew something serious had just happened.

Anyway...back to the show! Would be great to see a packaged up festival with all bands from this day.

Based on the snippets from Gimme Shelter and the bootlegs I think the Stones played very well that tragic day. There are complete audio and video of the concert according to an article in Salon magazine. I am on tablet so can't link to the article but google "Gimme Shelter, The True Story" for a great story about the making of "Gimme Shelter" documentary.

Good point about the condition of the tapes but we just got the complete Leeds 71 show and the Marquee 71 show so maybe Altamont is in good shape? That being said I doubt Mick and Keef would agree to release it.

Since we got the 71 shows my big hope is we will get a complete multitrack from the track from the 69 tour someday.

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Eleanor Rigby
Hunter gets killed at the beginning of UMT #1.
The song is stopped.
Mick pleads with the crowd...
Then they restart the song (the one we see on gimme shelter).
Hunter is not killed at the end of UMT #2 as the movie shows it...he has already died.
So the stuff Mick says in trying to keep the crowd cool and to "sit down" is after the murder.

Wordpress says he was killed while trying to get onstage. That is not evident in the film. The film shows it to be after UMT was finished.

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GasLightStreet

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Eleanor Rigby
Hunter gets killed at the beginning of UMT #1.
The song is stopped.
Mick pleads with the crowd...
Then they restart the song (the one we see on gimme shelter).
Hunter is not killed at the end of UMT #2 as the movie shows it...he has already died.
So the stuff Mick says in trying to keep the crowd cool and to "sit down" is after the murder.

Wordpress says he was killed while trying to get onstage. That is not evident in the film. The film shows it to be after UMT was finished.

read stanley booth's book.

Mick does ask for an ambulance before UMT starts in the film and Mr. Hunter
appeared to be too far away to be trying to get on stage.

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swimtothemoon
Mick does ask for an ambulance before UMT starts in the film and Mr. Hunter
appeared to be too far away to be trying to get on stage.

The ambulance IS for hunter...dont believe what you see in GS..its heavily edited and footage is spliced together throughout..
For example, Satisfaction is a mix between 2 shows!

The key thing you have to remember is that they started playing Under My Thumb, stopped to try to chill out the crowd, and then started again.

The killing happened approximately after the first time it was stopped, although in the movie they make it look like it was after they were completely finished with the song. The movie makes it look like UMT was played just once and doesn't have events in exactly the right sequence.

This article is pretty good, originally published in late 1970:

[www.esquire.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-22 11:13 by Turner68.

interesting discussion about sequence of facts. I have always considered Stanley Booth a reliable source

anyway I have a problem with this title thread which is highly misleading. there's a series of threads with similar titles that cover ACTUAL releases from the archive with information and news. so, I am not at all into "reporting" but i found really childish to try to gain views by cheating on title threads, I think it is quite simple to edit it in a less deceptive..

Just chiming in...yes I think a box set with various songs from the artists who played plus the complete Stones set should be released.