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His Majesty

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FOGGY
It's a wonder they got this album finished with the establishment's attempts to jail Mick, Keith and Brian (not for the content of TSMR !).

This was more or less the last time the band could be accused of copying the Beatles before returning to their roots with JJF and BB album in 1968. (..You've heard the one that the Stones were copying the Beatles, "Yesterday", by releasing "As Tears Go By".....wasn't that song written in 1964 and the Fabs track written a year later?! )

Yeah, but the "stones" didn't record it till after Yesterday and the arrangement of the stones release is obviously Yesterday inspired.

You're both right. They copied the Beatles shamelessly, until they didn't. That happened with JJF and BB. Keith got tired of following the Beatles around and after TSMR took control of the musical direction of the group, and steered it towards musical roots - blues, country, folk, etc. JJF and BB is where the Stones grew up and became their own band.

Its a shocking ALBUM with a couple of nice tracks and many crap tracks.

And the production? Don't start me on that. It's thin and tinny, bar Rainbow and 2000 which at least DO sound produced. The rest, thrown into a blender and out popped rubbish that runs off a spoon instead of being eaten with a fork and knife. No meat to it...

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His Majesty
This has replaced Beggars Banquet as my favourite Rolling Stones album.

I can imagine that, because it's a special and indeed freaky album, with experimental music, some strong songs, surprises and all. It's a shame the Stones have distanced themselves so strongly from this fine, time ghost containing, album. Greatest song on it to my taste: 2000 Man, one of the best Stones song I know.

Citadel is my favourite on TSMR. I wonder why so few like The Lantern? Love that one as well.

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DandelionPowderman
Citadel is my favourite on TSMR. I wonder why so few like The Lantern? Love that one as well.

I like both Citadel and The Lantern but unfortunately both are lyrically inaccessible. To this day I couldn't tell you what either are about.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
This has replaced Beggars Banquet as my favourite Rolling Stones album.

I can imagine that, because it's a special and indeed freaky album, with experimental music, some strong songs, surprises and all. It's a shame the Stones have distanced themselves so strongly from this fine, time ghost containing, album. Greatest song on it to my taste: 2000 Man, one of the best Stones song I know.

2000 Man is indeed amazing! Interestingly, it's the only track on TSMR that Brian doesn't play on.

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DandelionPowderman
Citadel is my favourite on TSMR. I wonder why so few like The Lantern? Love that one as well.

I love The Lantern as much as Citadel.

Keith's guitars on both are ace!

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
Citadel is my favourite on TSMR. I wonder why so few like The Lantern? Love that one as well.

I love The Lantern as much as Citadel.

Keith's guitars on both are ace!

Lovely guitars indeed!

satanic Majesties?? I like "Rainbow" and 2000 Man. Thats all.

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Havo
satanic Majesties?? I like "Rainbow" and 2000 Man. Thats all.

I am disappointed. I thought Mr Aftermath would love TSMR too.

I especially love the five last songs , plus "In Another Land", I do like the others to varying degrees, and I adore the album as a whole. And how I cherish the fact that the Stones made such a daring album and of such a sort.

By the way, where do I find other posters' love for "Gomper", which I often see as the key for the listener to open up to the album's delights?

I wonder, why the album is seen as Beatles-influenced. Apart from their ongoing rivalry for some time, I cannot see the album's music as such as that Beatles-oriented.

Musically, it's not Beatles influenced, and if it is it's a piss-take.

Conceptually, however, they exploited the Beatles and the contemporary music scene.

Do not always musicians exploit musical impulses? And transform them, recreate them in new forms and add to them from their own?

I'm reading the new Allen Klein biography and observers and Mick himself say that the Stones intentionally dragged out the MAJESTIES sessions to drive Andrew Loog Oldham nuts and to drive him away. They resented that immediately after the Redlands bust he fled to America rather than stay to support Mick and Keith.

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Witness
Do not always musicians exploit musical impulses? And transform them, recreate them in new forms and add to them from their own?

Yes, but I don't think they found those impulses on Sgt. Pepper. The concept, however...

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness
Do not always musicians exploit musical impulses? And transform them, recreate them in new forms and add to them from their own?

Yes, but I don't think they found those impulses on Sgt. Pepper. The concept, however...

My view is that they took part in a rivalry with the Beatles for some time, but found their own impulses. Of course! It would not have been much of a rivalry, were they to copy the ideas of their rivals.

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness
Do not always musicians exploit musical impulses? And transform them, recreate them in new forms and add to them from their own?

Yes, but I don't think they found those impulses on Sgt. Pepper. The concept, however...

My view is that they took part in a rivalry with the Beatles for some time, but found their own impulses. Of course! It would not have been much of a rivalry, were they to copy the ideas of their rivals.

My point was that ironically this might be the first album they made without leaning heavily on the Beatles's or other bands's musical ideas.

Ironic, because this album will always be associated with them unsuccessfully aping the Beatles...

They always aped the Beatles more conceptually than musically IMO, TSMR one example of many.

Yes, but Aftermath and BTB are full of Beatles-esque harmonies and Kink-style music hall. TSMR was a musical statement, imo. Boys became men.

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DandelionPowderman
Yes, but Aftermath and BTB are full of Beatles-esque harmonies and Kink-style music hall. TSMR was a musical statement, imo. Boys became men.

I don't hear it. I hear boys becoming men on Beggar's Banquet.

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Title5Take1
I'm reading the new Allen Klein biography and observers and Mick himself say that the Stones intentionally dragged out the MAJESTIES sessions to drive Andrew Loog Oldham nuts and to drive him away. They resented that immediately after the Redlands bust he fled to America rather than stay to support Mick and Keith.

They did do this, but most of the album was recorded after ALO left.

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman
Yes, but Aftermath and BTB are full of Beatles-esque harmonies and Kink-style music hall. TSMR was a musical statement, imo. Boys became men.

I don't hear it. I hear boys becoming men on Beggar's Banquet.

Men became TGRARBITW on BB

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DandelionPowderman
Yes, but Aftermath and BTB are full of Beatles-esque harmonies and Kink-style music hall. TSMR was a musical statement, imo. Boys became men.

I do not see it that way. Were the Beatles alone with harmonies at that time, giving them an ownership to such ingrediences? And when BETWEEN THE BUTTONS is the most English Stones album, that does not make it Kinks derivative. Apart from that issue, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS has one song that openly delivers one other's approach to a song. That is Bob Dylan on "Who's Been Sleeping Here". All the same, to my ears it ends up as a Stones song, even if a Dylan influence at the same time is present and evident.

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Yes, but Aftermath and BTB are full of Beatles-esque harmonies and Kink-style music hall. TSMR was a musical statement, imo. Boys became men.

I do not see it that way. Were the Beatles alone with harmonies at that time, giving them an ownership to such ingrediences? And when BETWEEN THE BUTTONS is the most English Stones album, that does not make it Kinks derivative. Apart from that issue, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS has one song that openly delivers one other's approach to a song. That is Bob Dylan on "Who's Been Sleeping Here". All the same, to my ears it ends up as a Stones song, even if a Dylan influence at the same time is present and evident.

All music is derived from other music. Nothing to be defensive about (not that you were)

In my opinion dandelion nailed the comparison with the Kinks on Between the Buttons.

I think it's instructive while having these discussions to look back on "I wanna be your man" and how the Beatles and Stones did this song. Thanks to Brian's guitar (and in part Mick's singing) the Stones own that song. And yet clearly it was Beatly as the Beatles wrote it. It's ok that they influenced one another.

To me beggars banquet is like highway 61 revisited or most every Beatles album -- a shot out of nowhere, an album that makes you think "wow I've never heard anything quite like that before". In my opinion it was the stones' first but not last like that.

So anyway yeah I think the kinks and Beatles can be heard on between the buttons (let's spend the night together is essentially "early beatles-by-numbers" right down to the gist of the lyrics being the same as please please me) and that it's a good thing.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-15 00:49 by Turner68.

The album cover is probably the main reason people tend to think it was trying to copy or compete with Sgt Peppers. About half the tracks are great and musically not much different to what is on Beggar's Banquet. It would have been a much better album if they had Jimmy Miller producing it.

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terraplane
The album cover is probably the main reason people tend to think it was trying to copy or compete with Sgt Peppers. About half the tracks are great and musically not much different to what is on Beggar's Banquet. It would have been a much better album if they had Jimmy Miller producing it.

Maybe, but perhaps they might not have been ready for a stranger to come in and start pushing and prodding for better music.

Do you think Traffic's Jimmy Miller produced debut Mr Fantasy, recorded during same time as TSMR at Olympic Studios, is better produced than Their Satanic Majesties Request?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-15 01:07 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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terraplane
The album cover is probably the main reason people tend to think it was trying to copy or compete with Sgt Peppers. About half the tracks are great and musically not much different to what is on Beggar's Banquet. It would have been a much better album if they had Jimmy Miller producing it.

Maybe, but perhaps they might not have been ready for a stranger to come in and start pushing and prodding for better music.

Do you think Traffic's Jimmy Miller produced debut Mr Fantasy, recorded during same time as TSMR at Olympic Studios, is better produced than Their Satanic Majesties Request?

I do

Don't know the album just the single which I thought had Steve Winwood's vocals too dominant in the mix.

You are probably right though in that they weren't likely ready for someone else in the studio calling the shots.

I enjoy it very much!

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terraplane
Don't know the album just the single which I thought had Steve Winwood's vocals too dominant in the mix.

You are probably right though in that they weren't likely ready for someone else in the studio calling the shots.

Just like Miller originally wanted Mick's vocals to be on BB