Hi there!
I'm really worried about Ron's health.
Obviously he wasn't involved in working for the new album because he was in such a bad disease.

Do you know something about it? why?

Bye,
IloveKeith

His alcoholism in itself is a very rough disease.
With often liver defects follows.
I think he & Keith have to behave themselves
most of the tiume during this tour;
in spite of all comments people here have upheft
on kids & grandchildren following them, I think its
the best for these resistless geezers.

IloveKeith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi there!
> I'm really worried about Ron's health.
> Obviously he wasn't involved in working for the
> new album because he was in such a bad disease.

We all are somewhat worried about Ronnie's health and form, but I don't find so obvious he wasn't involved in the album because of his health but for the Glimmer Twins' tendence to not get Ronnie involved in the creative departament.

[There'll be no wedding today...]

I agree w/ the former cousin lou - mixed motives.

Now that´s another story, the creative process.
But that´s nothing new.
Neither is his alcoholism; but it may be escalating
- as I got it heavy alcos rarely make it past 60.
Ronnie is 57 now (58?).
I guess he has been a heavy drinker
for some thirty years, or 35?

Keith is another thing - a living anomaly,
like a Finnish war-hero or a Connecticutian-Kentish
Väinämöinen from Kalevala. Tryin keepin it up with him
gotta be dangerous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-07-20 22:36 by Baboon Bro.

Keith seems to have started drinking more after he cut down (?) on narcotics. Ron had his almost equally public problem w/ freebase cocaine from 1979 (according to Ian McLagan's book) into the late 80s. The alcohol may be a replacement addiction, tho Faces were known as a drinking band.

You'd think with all the health warnings and his desire to rock and play music that this guy would get it together! I mean, how many guitar players out there of many ages would love his job?

But maybe Ron is depressed. Mick and Keith have quite a strangle hold on the writing and creative process, and Ron, much like Brian, Mick T or Bill doesn't stand a chance. And, i think that's too damn bad. Because, Ron's past work with Rod has been good, and his solo releases have been pretty good too. I think the Stones sound would be better to include another influence in the writing process. Much like I also think they missed the boat with Bill Wyman who seemed to have a very fertile mind (amongst other things :0) ) The Stones would have nothing to lose but only things to gain in their sound. It may also drive people like Ron to take more of an interest in the band besides being a glorified support person like Chuck, Lisa, Blondie...etc.

I always wondered if it was mere coicidence that Brian, Mick T, & Ron all developed serious addiction problems - 3 seemingly otherwise different personalities (including musical personalities)

ifyacantrockme, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. "Mick and Keith have quite a strangle hold on the writing and creative process" because they're Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. I'm sure Ron can bring something to the table and probably could have 25 years ago, but the fact of the matter is he signed up full well knowing the rules of the club and he accepted those rules unconditionally (historically speaking from what I've read and heard). And it might make good sense that if Ron would have really excelled on the solo side (not to say I'm not a fan of "Slide on this" - I love it and it has a permanent residence on my CD rack) that Mick and/or Keith would have integrated Ron into the "creative process" more so along the way. Formulatically speaking, I'm just not sure Ron has ever been on the same page as Mick or Keith relative to Rolling Stones songwriting-besides if it ain't broke don't try an fix it, right?

And please don't miscontrue- I love Ron Wood and feel so fortunate to experience his guitarmanship over the years as a definite rock steady player in the Stones equation.

Well Ron did a fair amount of writing until Steel Wheels, including 2 non-credits (inspiration by...), IORR & Hey Negrita, one credit on Emotional Rescue, 2 on Sucking In the 70s, 2 on Tattoo You, 1 on Undercover, & 4 on Dirty Work, not to mention he was responsible for much material by the Birds, Jeff Beck Group (more credits than Beck), Faces, & w/ Rod's classic solo stuff - including (as I think I wrote a few days ago) 'Gasoline Alley', 'Every Picture,' 'Ooh La La,' & many other classics.

The Stones is Mick and Keith's band. Three is a crowd. Period. People like Ronnie are needed when the big bosses can not stand each other, and they need some middle hands or other allies/companeros. This been the the deal since they took the control of the band (with Andrew) from Brian. At this moment they don't seem to need any diplomats or other partners to hang around or carry messages or someone to lean on to. Basically that's mean a good thing to the Stones.

And no matter how much we feel sorry for Ronnie for his unrecognized contribution annd never realized creative potential or alcoholism, he still happens to be the luckiest son of bitch in the world. You know, play the guitar for The Rolling Stones... (or he made the deal with Devil, and have to pay the dues).

But even though Mick and Keith are the driving force, I still find it quite extra-ordinary (and being even sceptical of the results), when all the creative work seems to be lied barely to their hands - you know, they have always had very inspirational and influential plyers around them, involving the creative process, especially in their golden period: Brian, Taylor, Ry Cooder, Gram Parsons just to name a few... The Twins have a quite reputation of 'borrowing' influences and ideas. Maybe this new record will be like their swan song - just two of them plus Charlie. Mick and Keith: pure and naked.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2005-07-21 08:35 by Doxa.

I don't think that getting Ronnie involved in the creative department means that the Glimmers have to give him writing credits in a Jagger-Richards-Wood way (which I don't think it would be bad, BTW). My point is that when it's been time to record Ronnie must have been there to add some influences: Some Girls is perhaps the Stones album most Woody-influenced and (if I'm not wrong) none of the songs are Jagger-Richards-Wood.

[There'll be no wedding today...]

ronnie has more jagger-richards-wood credits than taylor or jones...it's not that ronnie has been doing nothing, he put together that show and has been seen on stage with more than a few bands...i'm sure that he keeps busy with his art work and shows...he has more than likely gone to the clinic to get a clean bill of health for the up coming tour and i'm sure that with a problem like ronnie may have, it isn't a short stay...ronnie does and is alright i wouldn't count him down and out yet...

why did they give taylor credit for ventilator - WHAT was different with that song verse songs that taylor also wrote with jagger moonlight,winter,sway,etc.
jagger and keith are ruthless when it came to control and protecting their rock
god status within the stones camp and inner rock cirlce.

yeah Ron Wood is getting screwed for not being creative but i guess he has his
PAINTING brush to stroke instead of his guitar pick to pluck.

Ron Wood might of described keith richards the best on the licks documentary
when they were in the studio and he said Keith Richards brings RAGGINESS to the
stones and they would be lost without him.

MJ & KR, IMO should have used Ronnie's stuff a bit more....if it fit the band sound.
Dirty Work gives Ronnie tons of Credits, but that was a grudge f*uck by KR. Ronnie played great and very prominently on the Voodoo Tour and then something happened to him, them or a combo.

A very talented man that was smart enough tp out his ego in the trunk and stay with the Stones, but what toll has it taken ? Alcoholism, no energy on stage, not paying attention. Maybe he does that because they lower his guitar so much.

It must feel like a kick in the nuts when you are in a band for 30 years and you don't even get the call for the studio until the end.

The only thing I can think of is that MJ & KR must think this may be the swan song album and want to get it right on their own, or fall on their faces on their own.

We shall hear and see

Milo, NYC
You were the shark

Doxa is absolutely correct. Mick and Keith always needed some help in the creative department, particularly during their Golden Era (which I consider to be 1962-1973). It wasn't just those two alone, no way. Mick and Keith have been downright and notoriously stingy when it comes to sharing songwriting credits with anybody else. Like Brian and MT, Woody has been given the shaft. Not being invited to the studio? Wow, that's what I call the ultimate slap in the face! In another sense, however, I don't feel so sorry for Woody since he should have known what he was getting into when he joined the band . . .

At the beginning of the Licks Tour, the band told 60 Minutes that before they could tour successfully, Wood had to get sober. At the time of the broadcast and beginning of the tour, Wood was sober and was complimented by the members of the band who said that he was playing better than he played in years. Unfortunately, by the end of the European Tour, he was back on the booze, smiling for no reason on stage, and playing terribly.

Keith and Mick going into the studio with just Charlie was their kick in the pants to let Ronnie know that the train is leaving with or without him. They are making an album without him because he is drinking and they will go on tour without him also. From what I understand, Ronnie was deeply hurt by it and maybe that is what he needed to get and stay clean.

When Ron joined the band, there was a real closeness w/ Keith due to their collaboration on his solo debut, & the shows that followed, Keith guesting at the 12/74 Faces show that was filmed, & his collab w/ Mick on IORR, & socially. He also included his RS writing credits (as of spring '79)on the inner sleeve to Gimme Some Neck, in the box titled 'the stackroom'. I dont think he knew exactly 'what he was getting into' in '75. No one did, just as in the early 60s. Mick Taylor must have made a very significant contibution to 'Ventilator Blues' to get that credit. Of course Mick T was 21 when he joined, Ron was 27 or 28, & had been writing/recording since 1964, & already famous.

So it is okay for keith to be a alcoholic and creative in the studio and not
Woody. MR richards plays his chuck berry riffing and angular licks on stage
and they sound muted and boring these days. I guess its an advanatge to be a
rock god .

PS since I dont love RW's painting, that outlet for him doesnt bring me very much sattisfaction.

With all Ronnie has done in the past two years, (the break between Tours, a relatively short break, I might add) with his own solo work and numerous guest appearances and Art shows, painting, etc., HOW IN THE WORLD and you say he's drinking heavily again, or, has health problems?

Even Mick showed up at Ronnie's Theatre Royal show, so that shows Mick's support and admiration for RONNIE.

I say you guys spreading this, "publicity shit," to get off it, NOW!(you know who you are).

GEEZ LOUISE!

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

Ronnie's problem (like alot of alcoholics) is that he thinks he can turn it on and off at will. Can't be done. Instead of recognizing that if you on the wagon - it means absolute abstinence - he thinks he can just tone it down - he has said that publicly. That tells me he:

1) doesn't understand his disease

or

2) isn't willing to deal with his reality


....probably a combination of the two

LISMM63 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all Ronnie has done in the past two years,
> (the break between Tours, a relatively short
> break, I might add) with his own solo work and
> numerous guest appearances and Art shows,
> painting, etc., HOW IN THE WORLD and you say he's
> drinking heavily again, or, has health problems?

the fact that Ronnie has said it himself publicly on several occasions (as has his wife) is a pretty good indication, I would think

Its hardly tabloid created "publicity shit", considering hes done tabloid interviews about the state of his health and a TV interview in the UK last year where he also talked about it.

He didnt drink or smoke at all during the Drury Lane show, which was a good sign, and played pretty well

If anything, his smoking was the main problem since the Licks tour. He was told that if he didnt give up, he could be dead in a year due to a huge risk of emphysema. Months later he was still smoking, but seems to be getting on top of that problem

T&A is also correct about his inability to understand or deal with the drinking problem. in the past few years, he has dried out and then abstained from certain types of alcohol (spirits) while still drinking lots of wine and guinness. Anyone who admits they have a drink problem and then sees that as a solution is kidding themselves. I saw him in Dublin in december 2001 after he was supposedly making efforts to clean up, and he drank wine throughout the entire show.

You guys just stick together, MY POINT IS:
"
> With all Ronnie has done in the past two years,
> (the break between Tours, a relatively short
> break, I might add) with his own solo work and
> numerous guest appearances and Art shows,
> painting, etc., HOW IN THE WORLD and you say he's
> drinking heavily again, or, has health problems?
LISMM63"

I, realize, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic." Ronnie knows this, my point WAS, he could not possibly DO ALL HE DOES and be as smashed up on booze as you guys say, he does more work between Tours than the other Stones do, (HINT: Maybe that keeps him off the booze, hint, hint).

I think you misunderstand Ronnie/his wife etc. I think they are saying "it is an ongoing problem, that they have to deal with, being a recovering Alcoholic and trying to stay clean, and it will be a lifelong struggle, (as any alcoholic knows)."

I say be fair, and stop the ongoing rumors. You act like you want Ronnie to fall off the Wagon, GIVE HIM A BREAK!

As for the smoking, if he doesn't have emphesema yet, (full onset type) he isn't GOING TO DIE IN A YEARS TIME). My Ex-Father-in-law had emphesema for 25 years before he died, he had a "lung flushing machine" in his home too. Other people I know have had this disease for years, it isn't going to kill you in a year after the diagnosis. I don't see, or read, where Ronnie is carrying a machine around with him, or is that bad off. The Doctors are only warning him?

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

Long live Ronnie´b´Go(o)d !!

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, give me the beat, boys, and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away

The below is a bunch of BULL!


"Posted by: SpanishTony wrote:
Date: July 21, 2005 17:59

Keith and Mick going into the studio with just Charlie was their kick in the pants to let Ronnie know that the train is leaving with or without him. They are making an album without him because he is drinking and they will go on tour without him also. From what I understand, Ronnie was deeply hurt by it and maybe that is what he needed to get and stay clean."


Sure, that's why Mick performed with Ronnie at the Theatre Royal, cause he's on the Fence, get real!

"Fuc the Rock babe, I want the Roll." (KR)

LISMM63, its called tough love. It was a shot across his bow to tell him to get his act together. Doesnt mean they dont want anything to do with him, just means get your self together because you have a job to do. How else can you read into the Rolling Stones making a new album without a member of the band present for most of the sessions? They didnt want him there in the condition he was in.

Maybe Mick and Charlie in that case should make the album alone and show Keith some tough love by packing him off to Betty Ford to ditch drugs, alcohol, smoking and showboating.
The fourth of the above mentioned diseases is the most deadly.

Yarnspinning is only an affliction - not a disease. So he can keep that one. :0)

kyle m

Have you ever lent somebody $20 and never seen them again? It was probably worth it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-07-22 07:36 by monkey man.