Hi folks,
I am a hard core Stones fan...but I ain`t a musican...so reviewing Stones shows to me is way different than someone does who is a musican by himself...

To me a Rolling Stones show sound good or not...
and after watching about 30 live shows and having heard hundreds of Live boots I even can hear and find out the difference from Keith or Ronnies guitar playing...sometimes.
So it may still happen that I find Ronnies guitar playing great...although the musicans on this board judge it as bad...

Whant I want to know is, why is a professional guitar player like RW, who uses to play almost every day for decades now...why is his guitar playing so different each night ?
I mean...isn`t a profi guitar player able to deliver a minimum of high standard every night...
of course he has got the right to play better or less better each show..
but what horrifies me is the variety of quality difference.....
sometimes RW plays like 9 out of 10....
the next night he plays 4 out of 10....
I know it`s a matter of taste.....and that we shouldn`t take things so serious...and after all : It`s only Rockn Roll...
but:that shouldn`t be acceptable if you play on the highest level.

is it just the alc or the drugs ?
Doesn`t he take things seriously each night or what ?

What do you think ?

See you on the tour
salar

That is a huge question you ask there. In the case of Ronnie I think one of your last sentences might sum it up best. He doesn't seem to take it too seriously anymore. He has his painting. He seems to be taking his own music a lot more serious than the Stones these days. I be;lieve no matter what they say in the press, Ron is NOT happy in the Stones. Within the Stones hierarchy. There might be some bitterness towards Keith. He partied with Keith all those years and now Ron needs to stay clean in order to survive and Keith does not seem to appreciate it. But even before that Ron was going exactly the opposite way: he partied too much and therefore couldn't hold it together. NOBODY, not even a Rolling Stone, is going to stay immune to that Freebasing Devil. Plus he was drinking what sounds like a lethal amount of alcohol. But Ronnie, I think, must feel like he deserves some recognition for a) songwriting and inspirations and b) mainly for being the go-between in the Jagger/Keith equation. he might have helped to save the Stones after '86. He might have been instrumental in creating "Some Girls" And he most deifnetly deserves much thanks for jumping in there like he did in '75 and then staying on. maybe he is just fed up with that most ungrateful position of the second guitarrist of the Stones. It is always so evident when you see him just @#$%& up a Stones show royally and then a week later tear the roof off at a solo show. It does boggle the mind though to listebn to him play in the early 70's. He was AMAZING! With the Faces, the way he carried that band witha Slide/rhythm/ lead combo. Another Robert Johnson.
But what makes other guitarrists hot vs cold on a certain night? I don't know. That is what I do for a living. I play music many night @ week. I guess the crowd has a LOT to do with it. The response doespowerful things to the performer. Turns them on or off.
Another big thing is the chemistry on stage. Some nights live or at rehearsal for soem reason everything clicks perfectly. Some days I CAN NOT GET IN TUNE!!! I hate that. No matter what I do: I never even sound tuned up. Then the volumes might be off. Band memebers might be arguing. But sometimes everything is right and no one can do no wrong. Everybody feels it right away. You look at each other and it's in the eyes. THAT is the reason I play music. Not even the audience is as good. It is the great soul magic that happens in the communication. When six people come together and meet on a better plane.
That will make you play like a @#$%&.

Salar, I think a Stones diehard fan as you and me are, is not
interested in guitar players that play good each and every night.
Otherwise we would be Clapton fans or listening to stupid hardrock
or Santana or whatever. What is so great about the Stones` guitars
(`Ronnie AND Keith) is that it´s always fragile, always on the highwire:
coming through and it will be great or falling down (but it´s still great;-).

That´s why that Ronnie-bashing is just useless. Ronnie does best in a band
that made music the same way ever since they started. The rest of the band
@#$%& up as many times as Ronnie does per show. That´s why we love them:
showing us what we and they are: not perfect.

I agree!

I am with you man. I feel the same way towards Ronnie. Lately I have been thinking about him and pretty much reach the same conclusion. Plus I just read a "sort of" review of the next album somewhere on the internet that says that ronnie barely play on it. On songs like "sastifaction" Ron's guitar is so low and "unspectacular" just the sequence on cords(E,A,B,D)Why? He could do something else, ten times better and turn the song into something better. But Mick and Keith must shine first. So Ron is in that position where he must underplay himself to leave the spot to Mick and Keith. It must be frustating and somewhat depressing to be in that position. I love Ron. I love what he does as a solo artist.
Rollmops

ChelseaDrugstore, I think you brought it to the point very much from the sight of a musician (yes, I'm also one). The chemistry of all members is a mean point here. It can vary from night to night by a certain amount, even on rehearsels. And it's the big difference between playing in a band with other guys, having fun and doing music on your own by doing playbacks or computer oriented "music" (the last lacking the human touch, as Keith says).

But you also have to throw in something to get the chemistry on certain nights. If you are not willing or you are not able to throw something in (whatever reasons take place) you just might f$%k up the whole thing. To be honest, I hate it when Ron f§$ks up a show. I mean, Mick or Charly might do a mistake, but they won't throw a complete show. And at least I don't pay $580 for a single ticket just to watch a drunken guitarist having a relative playing time of 30%. And I don't want to keep my fingers crossed that the guitarist might hit the right note. If others say it's OK for them - it's up to them, not to me.

But is Ron low in the mix because he doesn't take the Stones seriously or doesn't he take the Stones seriously because he's low in the mix and must be the second guitarist? I go for the later option. I think the problem is Keith's ego. But even his guitar is way too low.

I have never been able to put a finger on it -on certain gigs my fingers seem to fly over the board, playing faster then my brains can fallow, on other times it seems my strings are barbed wire. But, I really think that the audience shouldn't notice it too much when the guitarist is having a bad night. No matter what, even a mediocre performance should be a good performance to the audience. If the audience notices too much you're having a bad night, you should work on it: drink less, take less drugs, sleep better, practice better. In my own view, Wood has gotten too far with his drinking and drugs, and should have realised back in 1994 that he had to sober up and perform better.

By the way, he is low in the mix because his playing was horrible on the NS tour and the European leg of the Licks tour. That is the one and only reason.

Mathijs

TO TOUGH, I really loved what you wrote about guitar players. Thank's for them. I really don't like "specialist guitarists" who bore me since I love music with their stupid solos.

I think I have a good way to sum it up a little: the guitarrist in question (ie Ron) should be professional enough to excite the crowd through his playing and guitar prowess even on a night when he personally is having an "off-night".For whatever reason.

to those guitar players out there,,question,, on the bridges to B. tour on the opener, satisfaction, was woodys guitar unplugged ?

I would equate the question to sports. Whether it's a Gretzky, Jordan, Woods, etc., even if you are one of the best at what you do, you can't be great every night. Some nights things just go your way and other nights, you're missing easy shots.
Guitarists will miss a chord, drummers will miss the beat, etc.

It took Ronnie almost 30 years..........30 years to financially become a Rolling Stone. My opinion is that Mr. Wood is very frustrated within the Stones, and has been for some time. Like many of you mentioned above he deserves more credit for things than he has got. He has been a gentlemen (and smart) by keeping his mouth shut.....he realised early on that he better not "Pull a Taylor".

Ronnie has proven over his career (Faces, solo, Stones) that he is very talented on many instruments, is a good songwriter and from everything I have ever heard or read about him, he is a lot of fun to be around and very affable, but basically since 1985/86 he has been pushed aside in a certain sense. I think he truly loves playing with the Stones but for many reasons he has been coasting at times, maybe even on purpose. I can say that I have not really heard Ronnies guitar live since Voodoo Lounge. His guitar was virtually invisible during Bridges and on too many shows during Licks.

Mick and Keith should have tapped into Woody's songwriting in the 80's and include him in the credits. I think it would have made a big difference by now. Think about it......during the Licks tour 75% of the songs he was playing on were imitations of someone else's work, thats gotta suck.

The topic. A good musician pretty much always sounds good to everyone...except the musician himself! Every show, every guitar player plays he makes mistakes on just about every song.....according to him. Most guitar players are very hard on themselves.....you in the audience never notice the mistake (unless it's huge) but the guitar knows and gets pissed. That happens almost every song, could be just a note or two, but thats all it takes.

Ronnie being erratic ? Substance abuse. Clean and aware?....his talent comes thru. He is not young anymore and has proven that he cannot booze it up and whatever else he does, and then go out and give a good performance. His body and mind, simply put, cannot get the coordination together when he is smashed at his age. If it's true that Ron had very little input into the new album in terms of playing it better be because he was INCAPABLE of playing, but if MJ & KR left him out of the sessions to prove a point, we could be looking at one hostile stage. MJ & KR have BARELY interacted or acknowledged each other on stage since 1978. Imagine the 3 of them basically ignoring each other.

Bottom line...a guitar player is consistantly good because he practises a lot and he loves playing, first for himself and secondly for whoever wants to listen.

Milo, NYC
Throw me down the keys

Too Tough wrote:

"That´s why we love them: showing us what we and they are: not perfect."

Agree. Noone is perfect. The Stones NEVER had been perfect. But they always have high standards and seem so mesmerizing on stage...

PS By the way, in my opinion on the american leg of Licks Tour Ronnie was great. I mean it.

RONNIE WAS REALLY GREAT. AND KEITH GREAT.