When i bought this CD in November of 1998 i was pleasantly surprised how upfront the guitars...(um, Keith's at least) was in the mix. I also really liked the different song selection on it with the inclusion of tracks like 'Flip The Switch', 'Corinna', 'Sister Morphine' (nice slide bits by Ron) and 'Respectable' amongst others.

But, after the debacle of Live Licks with all that bad editing, how much editing is on the tracks for this CD? Any inside sources as to why only one guitar primarily on this disc? Ron is mixed so low!

I was very disheartened by the lack of a 2nd guitar on much of this album, despite I think Keith's playing is pretty inspired overall.

I got to sit pretty close for a change at the Palace in Detroit to see them and really enjoyed Route 66, When The Whip Comes Down, Midnight Rambler and Some Girls when they rocked them out.

I noticed the same thing. The Last Time stoodout to me because the PA mix in StLouis had very balanced guitars. Ron was just as loud as Keith and it was fantastic. Great interplay. On the album he's like 70% the volume of Keith. Kinda disappointing. Live Licks was very disheartening. I'm sure the casual fan loved it. I'd rather take the HBO broadcast over Live Licks any day. Sound quality too. Live Licks is INCREDIBLY compressed.

The best thing about the NS album, since I agree about the mix, is that it was the first time since Ya-Ya's they emphasized more recent material/non-hits. I think only 2 tracks were on a previous live album, (Last Time, "Got Live"& Live W/Me, Ya-Ya's). Five songs from the 90s & 1 previously unrecorded out of 13.

No Security had no overdubs....what you hear is how it was played. The band purposely did that.

Live Licks almost sounds like a bootleg album, the songs were mixed loud, at least CD 1 and the edits were uncalled for. They overdubbed an acoustic guitar onto The Nearness of You when there was no need to do so and shortened it. Whip has no overdubs or edits, They left out Keiths guitar note bend on "Knocking",
(how could they do that?), won't even mention Rocks Off. Monkey Man MAY have a slide overdub towards the end, otherwise is was the MSG version note for note and it is a great version.
I actually like the version of Burden in Live Licks....Keith and Ronnie playing prominently and it was not dragged out. Without a doubt, LIVE LICKS is their rawest, worst edited amd mixed live album.

Milo, NYC
We all need someone we can bleed on

Milo Yammbag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Security had no overdubs....what you hear is
> how it was played. The band purposely did that.
>


actually thats not true. If you listen to the songs from the St Louis PPV show and then the versions on the live album for example, the difference is quite obvious. (its been a while since I played both recordings but I seem to remember some lyrical mistakes by Mick had been corrected for the live release)

I know for a fact that when the Stones were in Paris in July '98 to play the Stade de France that Keith was in the studio in the days they had off leading up to the concert working on overdubs. I was told that from a first hand source when I was in the city that week myself - the guy even told me correctly what shows were being overdubbed

no security has a few overdubs, lyrics and guitars.

I thought there were only a few songs taken from the St Louis show for No Security. A lot of songs were taken from the Amsterdam Arena shows.

Cheers,
Wuudy

Saint of me & Out of Control is from Amsterdam
Thief in the night from Nuremburg
The Last Time is from St. Loius, I think. But there something strange:
Mick & Keith sang the Refrain in one Microfon, you can hear it on the bootleg.
But on "NS" there is only Mick to ear.
What happened?

From www.nzentgraf.de

981102A 2nd November: THE ROLLING STONES.
CD ‘No Security’ (Virgin CDV 2880). Producers: The Glimmer Twins.
Sound engineer: Ed Cherney. Recorded live on the Bridges To Babylon World
Tour and mixed at various studios. (Some!) edits and overdubs were done at
LesStudio Davout, Paris, France 22nd -24th June 1998.
- You Got Me Rocking (MJ/KR) -Amsterdam 6.7.98
- Gimme Shelter (MJ/KR) -Port Chester 25.10.97
- Flip The Switch (MJ/KR) -Amsterdam 1.7.98
- Memory Motel (MJ/KR) -Dave Matthews on vocals; Amsterdam 5.7.98
- Corinna (Taj Mahal/Jesse Ed Davis) -Taj Mahal on vocals; St. Louis 12.12.97
- Saint Of Me (MJ/KR) -Buenos Aires 4.4.98
- Waiting On A Friend (MJ/KR) -Joshua Redman on sax; St. Louis 12.12.97
- Sister Morphine (MJ/KR/Marianne Faithfull) -Amsterdam 6.7.98
- Live With Me (MJ/KR) -Amsterdam 1.7.98
- Respectable (MJ/KR) -Amsterdam 5.7.98
- Thief In The Night (MJ/KR/Pierre de Beauport) -Leah Wood on backing
vocals, Pierre de Beauport on electric piano; Nuremberg 13.6.98
- The Last Time (MJ/KR) -St. Louis 12.12.97
- Out Of Control (MJ/KR) -Jimmy Starbuck on shaker; Buenos Aires 4.4.98

Wuudy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there were only a few songs taken from
> the St Louis show for No Security. A lot of songs
> were taken from the Amsterdam Arena shows.
>
> Cheers,
> Wuudy

Hi Wuudy

think you mis-read what I meant. I was using the St Louis songs as an example of tracks that are quite audibly overdubbed

Then i indeed misread your post, sorry!

Cheers,
Wuudy

Have a look at this for the overdubs on NS:

[members.aol.com]

great work by Chris M.

Charly.

I love reading Chris' stuff - its always excellent

Well, that 'promo' cover art sure beats the artwork on the official cd - might have helped sell a few more.

So, according to Chris M. there are very few overdubs.

C

I liked the concept of NS - but the execution (as usual) didn't follow through properly. As per usual, there were countless "missed opportunities" for inclusions of songs that ultimately represented the best moments from the tour/setlist. The most sinister of these omissions was Little Queenie, which was THE highlight of the entire B2B tour, IMO. Other notable MIA candidates:

19th Nervous Breakdown
Crazy Mama
I Wanna Hold You
All About You


...and another handful of web choices that would have spiced the album up more.

T and A is right. Why would those songs be left off? They were clearly highlights from that tour. Real cherries. I strongly suggest that they open up the tour with Crazy Mama. As for live albums at least we got YaYa's the king of all live albums, by anyone...

T&A, I totally agree, especially with 19th Nervous Breakdown. That song was great during the tour. Another 60's song that is hardly played or recognized by the band.

Little Queenie on the b-stage was my personal highlight of the BTB tour as well. Unforgettable. I nearly got crushed to death in front of the b-stage in Paris after standing for 9 hours in an overfilled stadium unable to sit down or move my legs but it was worth it just for that magical 15 minutes close up.

19th nervous Breakdown rocked like a bastard too.

Check out the versions of both songs on the Buenos Aires TV broadcast. Fantastic.

Call me crazy, but I think "Live Licks" is a great live Stones record. "No Security" isn't bad, I like the fact it was released as a double LP. LL should have been, but setting that to one side, I thought LL rocked harder than any live Stones album since Love You Live. It was loud and in your face. The old standards had plenty of life and the the second disc had some wonderful choices.

Bill

I liked the mix on Live Licks. Clearmountain's work is always pretty good. He also mixed Tattoo You, which IMO is the best SOUND on any Stones record and his work with Springsteen has always been good too. The performances are good, too, but then so are the performances on 4 Flicks which is essentially the same thing

However, the editing on LL is brutal and amateurish, the release of the record and it's timing utterly pointless and nothing more than a cash-in, and as a result its the most artistically redundant 'new' release of the band's career. The half arsed way it was thrown together should be reason enough for them to disown it.

Live albums now are pretty much a pointless venture by the Stones, because they come out with every tour, sell appallingly, regurgitate too many of the same songs and (for a more positive reason) they put out such a fantastic DVD a year earlier it makes the belated release of what is basically an edited audio soundtrack to it nothing more than a redundant afterthought

Besides the obvious bad edits on Live Licks it could have been a stronger album if the song selection was better. There are already too many live versions of many of the songs on the first disc. YCAGWYW, Start Me Up, Happy, Brown Sugar.

The second disc has a great song list but if the idea was for the first one to be hits why not use Heart Of Stone or Midnight Rambler, both sounded great.

Live Licks is the only, ONLY Stones album I did not bother to buy. And I mean, I get stuff like "Stones by the London Symphony" on the release day.I barely have ever seen it because it has IMO nothing to do with the Rockband that is the Rolling Stones.

I do agree LL was somewhat pointless on the heels of the DVD. I haven't noticed the editing, but I'll go have a listen and see what the fuss is about. Any song in particular stand out in regards to editing?

Bill

ow ow ow - if you haven't noticed what they did to Rocks Off ... ow ow ow

(i dig the mix of LL fine, mind you, and have no objection to anything about it *but* the massacre that they did instead of editing.)



"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

but the mix is much better than the DVD - worth getting it for that alone, IMO. Best "sounding" Stones live album...but clearly the playing isn't quite it used to be (that's another story altogether, of course).

> but the mix is much better than the DVD - worth
> getting it for that alone, IMO. Best "sounding"
> Stones live album...

I suggest a good listen to When the Whip Comes Down from LL, then throw the MSG disc in your dvd player and listen to the sound off Four Flicks. Seriously, the sound on the dvds is not only better but it is not heavily tampered with in terms of editing. CYHMK from MSG is barely touched on the dvd. One bad note is slightly modded but its a smooth edit.

IMO, Star Star from Wembly beats the hell outta any track on Live Licks. I bought LL the day it went onsale and was incredibly disappointed that the vast majority of the songs came from either the MSG/HBO show or were already found on Four Flicks. What a letdown. Neighbors for example... Why not take a recording from earlier in the tour?? The versions from the first half of the US leg of the tour were fantastic. Superfast Berry-ish rock n roll tunes. I didnt really dig the song when done live in 81 but the new version in 01 was killer. The version of Neighbors on LL is crap. I honestly skip past it everytime.

Anyways. I hate to bash any Stones release but they need to just record every show on the tour (as they always do) and just pick one and release it in completion.

I cant count how many times I listened to the San Diego show in 98. I'd rather listen to that then No Security any day. San Diego has Little Queenie... booya.

gotta disagree with you drake. i've done A/B comparisons on the FF DVD vs. LL - Live Licks beats the crap outta the DVD...

I agree Drake. I mean think about how much better it would be if we had a live cd simply called The Stones Live at Roseland. And just had the whole show released instead of a mix of songs from a a dvd that was already out and to top it off badly edited versions of those songs. The Stones need to take some notes from Dylan and the Grateful Dead on how to release or present their material. And the sad thing is they now their live albums don't represent their shows.

captkirk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do agree LL was somewhat pointless on the heels
> of the DVD. I haven't noticed the editing, but
> I'll go have a listen and see what the fuss is
> about. Any song in particular stand out in
> regards to editing?
>


I think even Helen Keller would have pricked her ears up when confronted with the audial butchery that is evident on "Rocks Off", Bill...