I saw Kiss at Tokyo Dome earlier this month - rising platforms, Paul flying out over the audience on wires, Gene breathing fire and spitting blood, topped off with an encore of "Rock and Roll All Nite" featuring a little school girl J-pop band. I guess that's what Gene views as "real" rock and roll these days.

Its always been a comic book circus with Kiss. They're just a gimmick, always have been.

It is very sad that The Stones started using backing tracks since Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. I remember being mighty pissed with the Sympathy drum track. Paint it Black you little devils... and I think even the cowbell for Honky Tonk was a tape. Or was another tour I heard that travesty on?

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drbryant
I saw Kiss at Tokyo Dome earlier this month - rising platforms, Paul flying out over the audience on wires, Gene breathing fire and spitting blood, topped off with an encore of "Rock and Roll All Nite" featuring a little school girl J-pop band. I guess that's what Gene views as "real" rock and roll these days.

No Babymetal? Weird...

Are all of the tracks, to our knowledge, mostly percussive/sound effects?

Are they pipping in vocals or guitar parts, as well? I saw some videos of them playing Bitch, and I was questioning whether or not Ronnie was really playing that classic riff. (Perhaps he let the horns and bass carry it. Would they really tape it?)

The STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE tours the entire percussion part of SFTD was all samples on a loop (which they seem to have not changed since). The cowbell for HTW was from the album, recorded and processed to have 3 different notes, and the harmonica in Miss You was a @#$%& keyboard.

That's it. No backing vocals were done in a studio and triggered.

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buffalo7478
Hopefully they only use on Sympathy - though even there I prefer they use none.

LIVE should be LIVE.

I doubt they use backtrack tracks elsewhere as they are so sloppy they could not keep up with the on-time track...Jaggers change vocals, Keith's missed riffs, Ronnie's smoke breaks with missed notes.

Sloppy but we like it.

Yes, they are so sloppy they must be doing 99% live.

The only thing I have wondered recently is that Jagger's voice is so damn good in some songs (even when he moves very much) but maybe it's just that sound production is so great and that he has trained his voice so well.

Also when I was a few years back in U2 concert they were also sloppy, so if they were using very much some backing tracks, the tracks were recorded very badly.

I sure hope they don't use lead vocal tracks for Mick. Has anyone ever noticed his mouth not match the vocals/parts of songs sound EXACTLY the same, night after night?

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Kurt
I've seen U2 plenty of times live...

Admittedly, I absolutely DESPISE their model of selling tickets.
Man, those guys collect and hold their fans' money for months and months and months and months and months before they deliver a live performance. I grew tired of that years ago.

I see that you're plenty fine OK with the Stones doing that though. Have you not read the Forbes issue where Keith, of all people, talks about taking the money from ticket sales months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months before the show occurs and putting it in an extremely high interest rate account so they make A TON of money from the interest?

Well there you go. Where do you think U2 learned it from.

What specifically is pipped in for Bitch performances? I understand there's a loop for Sympathy, cowbell for Honky Tonk & other sounds for Undercover & 2000. But what's "unique" like that for Bitch?

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GasLightStreet

I see that you're plenty fine OK with the Stones doing that though. Have you not read the Forbes issue where Keith, of all people, talks about taking the money from ticket sales months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months before the show occurs and putting it in an extremely high interest rate account so they make A TON of money from the interest?

Well there you go. Where do you think U2 learned it from.

Honestly in all the years of personally buying Stones' tickets, I have NEVER had to pay them that far in advance. EVER. Since 1981.

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whitem8

It is very sad that The Stones started using backing tracks since Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. I remember being mighty pissed with the Sympathy drum track. Paint it Black you little devils... and I think even the cowbell for Honky Tonk was a tape.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they're samples triggered by someone onstage (Chuck) not some tape sent into the PA by a sound guy.

Thinking about sampling used in live shows, for me its a question of how much sound information is actually triggered. Single sounds, notes or drum samples triggered from single strikes by the musicians is OK because it's still the musician playing in time, just using a sampled sound as his or her instrument. Every electronic piano player is doing it because that's how the instruments work. Not much different than Keith hitting a note with his MXR delay engaged, it's just a modified sound chosen by the musician to express the music.

When pre-recorded loops, entire phrases, rhythm tracks or other longer time based accompaniment is used, it becomes something different and although the overall effect might be good, it seems like cheating to me. I prefer true live performances where the human error/imperfection factor is part of the experience. Artists that do this and try to hide the fact are disappointing.

Artists building there entire show off samples, loops and pre-recorded material is OK, it's just not live music to me....a totally different kind of entertainment that I hope never replaces the real thing.

peace

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GasLightStreet

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Kurt
I've seen U2 plenty of times live...

Admittedly, I absolutely DESPISE their model of selling tickets.
Man, those guys collect and hold their fans' money for months and months and months and months and months before they deliver a live performance. I grew tired of that years ago.

I see that you're plenty fine OK with the Stones doing that though. Have you not read the Forbes issue where Keith, of all people, talks about taking the money from ticket sales months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months before the show occurs and putting it in an extremely high interest rate account so they make A TON of money from the interest?

Well there you go. Where do you think U2 learned it from.

Reality check, Street:

(1) Stones ar set to start tourin end of may
(2) their ticket sales will not start before april

Even if you'd replace all the "months" in your post by "weeks", you'd still be way of mark -

Gene Simmons seems to have a huge ego. Speaking for myself, I would not waste much thought on anything comming out of his mouth.

Beth features a string orchestra and piano...on tape...and t sounds like the same tape they have used for 40 years.

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GasLightStreet
The STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE tours the entire percussion part of SFTD was all samples on a loop (which they seem to have not changed since). The cowbell for HTW was from the album, recorded and processed to have 3 different notes, and the harmonica in Miss You was a @#$%& keyboard.

That's it. No backing vocals were done in a studio and triggered.

Same with the "harp" on IJWMLTY...

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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GasLightStreet

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Kurt
I've seen U2 plenty of times live...

Admittedly, I absolutely DESPISE their model of selling tickets.
Man, those guys collect and hold their fans' money for months and months and months and months and months before they deliver a live performance. I grew tired of that years ago.

I see that you're plenty fine OK with the Stones doing that though. Have you not read the Forbes issue where Keith, of all people, talks about taking the money from ticket sales months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months and months before the show occurs and putting it in an extremely high interest rate account so they make A TON of money from the interest?

Well there you go. Where do you think U2 learned it from.

Reality check, Street:

(1) Stones ar set to start tourin end of may
(2) their ticket sales will not start before april

Even if you'd replace all the "months" in your post by "weeks", you'd still be way of mark -

Yes, the use of months was strictly to make a point. It's valid though - Keith even talked about it. Maybe it's not as far in advance as U2's recent tours but a few months is a few months.

Most likely the Stones compensation is similar to other big name artists. They are paid 1/2 their guarantee at the time of signing their contract and the other 1/2 after the show is complete and they have finished their 1 hour 45 minute guaranteed performance. Other income from merchandise and such comes in after the accounting is complete for each show.

My guess is the only ones profiting from interest accumulated through early ticket sales is the promoters.

peace

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UndercoverLovingcup
Beth features a string orchestra and piano...on tape...and t sounds like the same tape they have used for 40 years.

I bet it's wearing thin.

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swimtothemoon
Gene Simmons seems to have a huge ego. Speaking for myself, I would not waste much thought on anything comming out of his mouth.

His ego isn't bigger than Micks or anybody else's. He's just promoting his band in a different way, it's his trademark. I think he's pretty clever and the whole idea of Kiss as a mix or real rock n roll and something else, is genius.

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UndercoverLovingcup
Beth features a string orchestra and piano...on tape...and t sounds like the same tape they have used for 40 years.

I gotta defend Gene on this one. Did they use tapes for Beth in the 70s? YES! But, when I saw the current lineup play it in 2010, they did a slightly different version, wit acoustic guitars.

Also, I used to think they did use some vocals tracks, but I'm starting to think they actually do not. A recent show from Charlotte was streamed online, and they vocals seem pretty legit. For the opening song (Psycho Circus), they were late getting Eric Singer his mic, for the chorus, and you can hear the absence of his voice, CLEARLY.

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Redhotcarpet

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swimtothemoon
Gene Simmons seems to have a huge ego. Speaking for myself, I would not waste much thought on anything comming out of his mouth.

His ego isn't bigger than Micks or anybody else's. He's just promoting his band in a different way, it's his trademark. I think he's pretty clever and the whole idea of Kiss as a mix or real rock n roll and something else, is genius.

Good point. The Stones, and others, use backing tracks. That's a fact. How did this become an attack on GS? He wasn't insulting them, he was just simply stating a fact. Jeez, Stones fans can clutch those pearls as tightly as anybody.

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RumTumJM

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UndercoverLovingcup
Beth features a string orchestra and piano...on tape...and t sounds like the same tape they have used for 40 years.

I gotta defend Gene on this one. Did they use tapes for Beth in the 70s? YES! But, when I saw the current lineup play it in 2010, they did a slightly different version, wit acoustic guitars.

Also, I used to think they did use some vocals tracks, but I'm starting to think they actually do not. A recent show from Charlotte was streamed online, and they vocals seem pretty legit. For the opening song (Psycho Circus), they were late getting Eric Singer his mic, for the chorus, and you can hear the absence of his voice, CLEARLY.

So... there's nothing to defend: Kiss used studio recordings to supplement their live show. So Gene Simmons can SUCK IT. His point is that U2 and the Stones "have" used studio recordings (not "are" since neither are playing at the moment) is complete suckage.

Just. Like. Kiss.

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RumTumJM

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UndercoverLovingcup
Beth features a string orchestra and piano...on tape...and t sounds like the same tape they have used for 40 years.

I gotta defend Gene on this one. Did they use tapes for Beth in the 70s? YES! But, when I saw the current lineup play it in 2010, they did a slightly different version, wit acoustic guitars.

Also, I used to think they did use some vocals tracks, but I'm starting to think they actually do not. A recent show from Charlotte was streamed online, and they vocals seem pretty legit. For the opening song (Psycho Circus), they were late getting Eric Singer his mic, for the chorus, and you can hear the absence of his voice, CLEARLY.

true artistic masters in view of the new evidence.