I never thought I'd write these words, but it looks like the Stones have overestimated their drawing power. It's hard to fathom, but MSG, Philly and Chicago are not sold out. They'll almost definitely sell out eventually, but the days of the band selling out in 30 minutes are clearly over. Plus, to add insult, there are hundreds of listings on Ebay for good seats at face value that haven't received ANY bids!

Clearly, the ludicrous ticket prices are turning people away (especially the yuppies who went for the first time three years ago just to say they saw them).

I wonder how much of an impact the new album will have on ticket sales. If it's an instant classic, will the average fan gladly shell out the $$$$ to see them? Personally, I hope the answer is no, because that would just give Mick a reason to charge us $600 per ticket for the next tour.






-- Keep on rollin'. Keep on. Keep on. Keep on. --

If not sold out - why has ticketmaster been saying shows are sold out minutes after tix go on sale?

Plenty of tickets available on TicketMaster for MSG for the past week.

That may be...however, I think most fans check for tickets, & if there are not any available, they do not check again. While fans here may check all day everyday, most fans do not. If they tried to buy a ticket & ticketmaster said "none available", they assume it is sold out & either give up or go to scalpers. Therefore, having tickets available does not mean too much about drawing power, when those tickets became available after being "sold out".

You're so right! For me to go to NY is difficult logistically, so once MSG seemed to be sold out (unlike last time when tix were easier for me to get), I stopped checking & figured on waiting for a much rumored Fleet ctr show in Boston, January.

THE TICKET BROKERS WILL GET SCREWED IN THE END! THE PRICES THEY'RE CHARGING IS SOOOO FAR OUT OF LINE, THEY'LL BE HOLDING LOTS OF AWESOME SEATS BEFORE SHOWTIME! I HOPE THEY ALL TAKE A BATH! I have a broker in Montreal who is FAIR, a woman called ARLENE; if anyone wants her name and number, let me know. My email is mickschix2@aol.com.

l wll be seeing the band in October, but the prices that they are charging are way too much, not many real fans will be able to afford the expensive tickets.
The truth is that this says a lot about the band. Frankly they don't give a shit about the fans its all about the money at this point of their career.
And be real lets not blame Mick alone for this, Keith is just as guilty.
At this point how much more money they need?
l don't expect them to play for free but $450.00 for a seat?
Thats greed at the max.
Love you all.

Here is my two cents...The CORPORATION is charging the tickets. The boys know this is going on but it is so big they almost almost don't have any control over it any more. I'll bet they would do em for free if they had all of the control. This is just an opinion.

dont stick up for them now, if mick wanted the prices lower it would happen

shattered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is my two cents...The CORPORATION is charging
> the tickets. The boys know this is going on but
> it is so big they almost almost don't have any
> control over it any more. I'll bet they would do
> em for free if they had all of the control. This
> is just an opinion.


oh please...

The Stones set their own ticket prices. Fact. Jagger admitted that in "Fortune" magazine in an interview during the last tour.

The idea of the Stones having someone else dictate to them what prices they have to charge is almost as ludicrous as that of them doing shows for free if they could.

they're greedy bastards. End of story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-07-10 22:04 by Gazza.

FINALLY SOME OF YOU ARE SEEING THE LIGHT.
TO BLAME THE CORPORATION IS UTTERLY BULLSHIT. IS NOTHING MORE THAN GREED.
MONEY$$$$$$ MONEY$$$$$$ MONEY$$$$$$.

oh please...

The Stones set their own ticket prices. Fact. Jagger admitted that in "Fortune" magazine in an interview during the last tour.

Yup, true aristocrats who would have thought the 40 years ago that Jagger would be interviewed by Fortune magazine.


And be real lets not blame Mick alone for this, Keith is just as guilty.

In a 60 minutes or dateline interview it was Keith who said "while I sleep the cash register keeps going cha ching".

Bluespeyer wrote:

"Ét looks like the Stones have overestimated their drawing power. It's hard to fathom, but MSG, Philly and Chicago are not sold out. They'll almost definitely sell out eventually, but the days of the band selling out in 30 minutes are clearly over"

Bluespeyer, they have sold out very fast Ottawa, but not Toronto. Why? Do you think they are more popular in the one city than in the other? Of course not. The big difference is that since 1989 they play Toronto very often, again and again. During the last 10-15 years the Stones did so many tours, so they are always a very popular great act, but not a rare act, atleast in cities like NY, Chicago, LA, Philly.

But the concerts are already sold out or almost sold out, even with the so high ticket prices, even if the Stones have not the promotion of the new album's realise in their pocket yet, even, even, even. After all those years that's a big success in my opinion.

PS I have to admit the ticket prices for their concerts in the USA are very high and that's a problem. In Europe usualy the prices are much more reasonable.

I hate the ticket prices for all the obvious reasons (just in case someone thought I preferred them like that), but I must say I am pleased the Stones have toured so much in the past decade (well, including '94). Next month begins the Stones' fifth US tour (!!) since Bill left. And the tours are longer than they were in the 70s & early 80s. There is a potential over-saturation point (like Prince reached when he put out all those interesting minor albums, too many to fit in record store bins, tho changing his name didnt help) especially with THOSE prices & with casual fans who go because "The Rolling Stones" is an event, like the Super Bowl, and it doesn't come around much anymore and it's always the Last Time. The latest (post Bill) live version of rock & roll's greatest band has its less fabulous aspects (the role of Chuck Leavell, & too much emphasis on horns, especially on Keith's features, among other irritants) but in their fourth decade together (i.e. 1994-2003) they probably played to more people than in their entire first 32 years. Well if you throw in SW/Urban Jungle I'm sure that's true. And, they've played more songs, varied setlists, than I recall, as well - warhorses of course, but also plenty of classics they've never or rarely done, lots of covers, and that pesky new material...So I'm trying not to take them for granted, or get too resentful, though they've always pissed me off, because I love 'em & it really is getting late.

During all pervious Tours (1995-today), when checking again, I could have bought seats in MSG and other venues. At that time I was not able to go to the US. This time when checking again, it is only some shows where you still can have tickets at ticketmaster. So the argument about sold-out shows is a bit tricky.
I do agree that they have more competition nowadays, but not only of other bands also because of ticketpricing and our desinterst to lift the bump and move again to a concert. The thrill it was years ago to wait one night before the gates open for the first row are over, because it's all seated now in the US. The excitement is getting lame. Don't blame it only on the ticketprices and the Stones, it's also us who just don't wanna make the effort anymore.

They are So NOT SOLD OUT it's goofy but the seats are not in the hands of TickerMaster, they've all been bought up by those slimy Ticket Brokers, AKA Scalpers! Legalized thief! Just go on line to any " Ticket Agency" and see the marked-up tickets and you'll GAG! I bet most of you do know this!

Debra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are So NOT SOLD OUT it's goofy but the seats
> are not in the hands of TickerMaster, they've all
> been bought up by those slimy Ticket Brokers, AKA
> Scalpers! Legalized thief! Just go on line to any
> " Ticket Agency" and see the marked-up tickets and
> you'll GAG! I bet most of you do know this!


But Debra if you equate ticket brokers(scalpers,touts) as the only people selling tckets as not being sold out, then no event in history has been sold-out. if you willing to pay the price to brokers you can see the world cup final,super bowl or front row to the stones, I don't see your logic that these concerts only available through brokers are not "sold out" ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-07-12 00:33 by Ket.

Ok, Gazza, but are we ANY different???

I love oil paintings by Lucian Freud and Francis Bacon, it's the one thing I'd love to buy if I was seriously rich. Just because I love Lucian Freud doesn't mean he will accept a commission from me, and even IF he did (apparently he is very choosy), should he charge me less than the 3 million £££ they go for???? Why? Cause I'm a "fan" ???

On what planet do you all live?

Why should the Stones charge less than the market can hold???
I charge as much as I bloody well can for specializing for twenty years in what I do. And what The Stones do, no other bands can. So they charge as much as they bloody well can.
Give them credit for the fact that they really screw Americans, but screw us Europeans slightly less. Suits them right, and I've said this before, but I believe that it was Americans who invented globalization, chains and maximum profit. They invented tax-deductible corporate entertainment, too. Welcome to the Stanford School of Economics!It is our fellow american friends on this board (Marcia, I think), who pointed out that in America everything, from football to baseball to concerts to cinema is marketed at maximum profit margins as "entertainment".
And they price this entertainment at the price that gives maximum profit. End of story.

As Bjornulf pointed out, everyone is panicking, perhaps you ought to accept that you shouldn't buy stuff you can't afford. So make up your mind whether you can, and if you can't then don't go. Or even better, book a holiday to the Old World, The Cradle of Culture next summer. I bet you get a week in Amsterdam and four dutch concerts for less than two golden tix in Boston!

And, has anyone realised how the "greed" has gotten one notch hotter, or is it only me? Now the fanasylum packet, which for the European Licks Tour seemed not bad value for money (minus the two day wait in front of Olympia in the Julyheat, what a perk! And instant front-of-stage position after buffet dinner and canapes....THAT's when the true fan got screwed big-time....).
This time around, however, the package includes on-ly ONE venue. Now that's being stingy on top of greedy, but some financial computer whizz-kid must have told them that they can get away with it.

I'm trying only for theaters, maybe plus Amsterdam. That's what I'm prepared to pay for while having a blast.

Just make up your mind what you're prepared to pay for and do it.
And if it means not going at all, then so be it.
And GR: taking on another 12500$ debt from this tour would not be a wise option!
But stop the tiresome complaints, a la "we are fans and deserve better!"

Have you got ANY IDEA how bloody expensive it must be to keep all those children, illegitimate children, wives and ex-wives in the style they're acustomed to ????

Give the boys a bloody break!

Johanna .

jostorm Wrote
Suits them right, and I've said this before,
> but I believe that it was Americans who invented
> globalization, chains and maximum profit.


not to mention the blues .

jostorm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, Gazza, but are we ANY different???
>
> I love oil paintings by Lucian Freud and Francis
> Bacon, it's the one thing I'd love to buy if I was
> seriously rich. Just because I love Lucian Freud
> doesn't mean he will accept a commission from me,
> and even IF he did (apparently he is very choosy),
> should he charge me less than the 3 million £££
> they go for???? Why? Cause I'm a "fan" ???
>
> On what planet do you all live?
>
> Why should the Stones charge less than the market
> can hold???
> I charge as much as I bloody well can for
> specializing for twenty years in what I do. And
> what The Stones do, no other bands can. So they
> charge as much as they bloody well can.

I still inhabit Planet Earth, jo - that seems to be the problem these days. Its the Stones dont seem to be familiar with that place anymore.

same old argument - why shouldnt they charge as much as they want, etc.

Doesnt hold up. I've said this a million times over the last 7 years and no one has convinced me I'm wrong yet

They'll never spend the money they'll earn should they live to be 500. So its a pointless accummulation of wealth from which THEY dont really benefit and the people spending the money lose out

There are many acts who could do a tour and a certain amount of their fanbase could and would be willing to spend $450 a ticket to see them. maybe less of them than the Stones, but the principle is the same. The difference is that the Stones charge that money to their fans and others dont. The argument that "they do it because they can" doesnt hold water - I mean, how much @#$%& money do they NEED? On the last tour in some eastern European countries, the ticket buyers were allowed to pay the price of the ticket in deferred instalments because the money the Stones were charging was almost a month's salary. Anyone who cant see that this is morally @#$%& up is insane or delusional. By all means, the top acts in the world should be expected to cost a bit more to see than your average run of the mill act who'll be forgotten about in five years, but this crap gets more and more over the top and shameless with each new tour.

Sorry, but when it boils down to basic facts theres no escaping the fact that $450 for a two hour rock concert is a bloody obscenity. Especially when charging those prices in a stadium and often for seats with side views that arent really that good at all. No doubt there'll be a few "if you dont like it, dont go" smartarsed retorts but that wont change anything. Easy for me after about 35 shows to just say "enough" because I dont feel the need to see many more shows, but I feel sorry for newer and younger fans just getting into the band. These shows could EASILY be done for a quarter of that price and the band's profits would still be HUGE. All they are bloody interested in is outGROSSING everyone else, so their fans have to pay through the nose to satisfy their egoes.

they also cut a nice deal with brokers and expensive package companies to ensure that as many tickets as possible end up being bought at way over the already inflated asking price. The real fans who buy their records an stick with them down the years barely get a look in.

at the end of it all, with those prices you end up with crap corporate audiences coming along to hear the 5-6 stones songs that they know and with that proportion of the crowd becoming bigger (and older) with each succeeding tour, they get the unimaginative shows that they deserve. And people wonder why the Stones' music and their appeal is lost to younger audiences?

I wont be donating $450 to someone who wont give value for it, wont appreciate it or will never spend it. Sorry. If you have that kind of money to throw around and think nothing of it, bully for you but as far as I'm concerned theres more deserving causes and also a lot more fun I can have with that kind of money.

I agree $450 is insane but you can get cheaper tickets that are not too bad ...I paid $99 for Hershey they are on Keith's side center stadium (but pretty high up there, row dd) and I paid $160 for 4th row floor by the B stage for 2nd Philly show...it just took some patience to get them, got HP thru public sale 3 weeks after tixs went on sale - I was checking every day and then they just showed up - and the floor seats I got at the rs.com presale

sooooooooo my point is yea $450 is nuts I wouldn't pay it, but I am going to 2 shows and I am pretty happy..

"you can't always get what you want...but you get what you need"

Gazza wrote

"And people wonder why the Stones' music and their appeal is lost to younger audiences?"

Gazza, it's obvious that it is NOT lost. Come on, the Stones attracted 23 million people in their concerts since 1989, do you think all of them were old fans? I tell you once again: during every tour, including Licks, i see in stadiums a lot of young people. Don't ask me about areanas and theatres, i don't know, but about stadiums yes, i know very well...

Yes, in the USA the tickets are very expensive. Only in the States i hope. I hope it remembering the European legs of the B2B and Licks. Then the prices were OK. But after all that's a general game of the music industry. Recently in my country played Dream Theatre. The ticket price was 40 Euro. OK, if DT cost 40 Euro the Stones "must" cost 40 X 2 or 40 X3...

The arguments about ticketprices won't stop. Ha?. I remember since about I came back to this board in 95 that they was an argument about ticket prices. The prices increased the IORR remained and a lot of us still went to see the Stones. As I travel to US and CAD I decided to go to the West rather to the east as tickets are cheaper. The flight doesn't count anyway, because it was nearly the same whether I would hop over to the East coast or the Westcoast. I got very good tickets for 99 USD, but also tickets for 160 which are hmm....
I assume that the market and whole ticketing structure is totally different in the US then in Europe. A lot more fans in Europe may sell to others even via ebay at a fairly decent price. I got tickets for AHOY on the last tour which where about 5% above the ticket price.

How much money do they need, Gazza??? How do I know??? Anb who can decide for them??? I mean. how long is a piece of string???
I have reached the same conclusion you have, there's no way I would pay 450$ to see the Stones, that much I know, even though I could afford it, but it's just obscene. I'd pay 450$ to see Hendrix, Joplin and Elvis definitely, but not to see the Stones...but the fact of the matter is that they still have something to sell, and there seem to be enough people out there prepared to buy it at those prices, so what are we going to do about it?
We had the exact same conversation a few months back on another thread , and I remember jokingly suggesting that we could easily organize a worldwide protest in front of every venue, by applying for a peaceful protest permit in every city they play, and then taking it in turns to sit outside the concert venue wearing our t-shirts that say "Keith, I'm here about the money", "My bank owns me because of the Boys" or "Don't wanna be your Slave", but I very much doubt anyone has the time, balls or inclination to do so....
They started squeezing the maximum money possible out of their middle-aged fanbase a long time ago, when they first marketed those leather biker jackets for 250£, the rest was just a logical progression, and the result, at least in America, is total price madness, corporate entertainment and the "glorified touts" in Ticketmaster uniforms.....
But please don't forget that at the last tour there were people from within our fanbase selling their second Astoria ticket to the highest bidder on ebay or auctioning them off at Ticket Trader for 2000 Euros, the point I'm trying to malke is that EVERYONE seems to be greedy, not just the Stones....
The one thing that is clear, is that the days of following the Stones around Europe, hitchhiking from one city to the next is are well and truly over, because of the ticket prices, so I'm glad I did it when I was young and it was still possible.....

The only "problem" with the 450 USD tix is that they are FOS. This is a consequence of not having general admission and only seated places.

In Europe the VIP section is usually not FOS, but (at least in stadiums) very close to the B stage. This makes everybody happy. Wild fans go and party FOS. The others may sit and have a good overall view of the show, and a great one when it comes to the B stage section. On the other hand, given the avarage age of the VIP section, I believe that 3 songs to rock are more than enough, unless the Stones want to upgrade their insurances.

I truly have mixed emotions re high prices. On one hand it could be OK from the fan point of view: it is only different way of standing in a line. One may decide (if he can) to stay away from work for a couple of days and camp in front of a ticket office (which usually would cost him much more than 450USD) OR save 50$ a week for a couple of months and afford the very expensive ones. I don't think that standing in a line is necessarily more democartic than saving money. Of course there will always be the ones who can easily afford to pay those prices, but poor fans are not necessarily better than rich fans, AND there are also people who are able to skip the line because they have some "friend" ...

On the other hand, since this is turning out to be a world wide applied policy, I regret that I cannot see as many concerts as I once could.

C

keefkid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree $450 is insane but you can get cheaper
> tickets that are not too bad ...I paid $99 for
> Hershey they are on Keith's side center stadium
> (but pretty high up there, row dd) and I paid $160
> for 4th row floor by the B stage for 2nd Philly
> show...it just took some patience to get them, got
> HP thru public sale 3 weeks after tixs went on
> sale - I was checking every day and then they just
> showed up - and the floor seats I got at the
> rs.com presale

Not to criticise anything you wrote, keefkid, and being in risk of being told I'm out of Planet Earth (as Gazza says) I honestly find $160 and even $99 insane too. If you think about it calmly, it's too much money.

When the Stones go to South America and many countries in Europe they can't charge so much, and I'm pretty sure they don't lose money in those "cheaper" markets. In fact, it's in those "cheaper" markets when the concerts are true parties and where people go really nuts with the band. It must be like an equation:

(Cheaper tickets) >> (Younger occasional fans + Hardcore fans) >> Great audiences.
(Expensive tickets) >> (Corporate-middle-age occasional fans + Hardcore fans) > Not so great audiences



[There'll be no wedding today...]

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza wrote
>
> "And people wonder why the Stones' music and their
> appeal is lost to younger audiences?"
>
> Gazza, it's obvious that it is NOT lost. Come on,
> the Stones attracted 23 million people in their
> concerts since 1989, do you think all of them were
> old fans? I tell you once again: during every
> tour, including Licks, i see in stadiums a lot of
> young people. Don't ask me about areanas and
> theatres, i don't know, but about stadiums yes, i
> know very well...

my only problem with the Stones ticket prices has been since 1998. Ask yourself why they were still attracting younger audiences prior to that. On BTB the top ticket price in the US was $65. Now its $450. Seven years later.


>
> Yes, in the USA the tickets are very expensive.
> Only in the States i hope. I hope it remembering
> the European legs of the B2B and Licks.

BTB prices were fine. As I said earlier, I have no problem with the fact that a major act costs a bit more. I paid £150 (about $270) for tickets for Twickenham and Wembley which were twice what any previous act (ie, Madonna) had ever charged for a pop concert in London.


Then the
> prices were OK. But after all that's a general
> game of the music industry. Recently in my country
> played Dream Theatre. The ticket price was 40
> Euro. OK, if DT cost 40 Euro the Stones "must"
> cost 40 X 2 or 40 X3...
>
80 or 120 Euro I could live with!

Regarding the "sold out " issue I just want to add, that ticketmaster hast mostly tickets on all "NO Security" dates even just some weeks before the show. Today I can try only very few dates which they still have tickets. So what's the issue. The big times are over we all know that, but not only for the Stones, perhaps also for us.

"I honestly find $160 and even $99 insane too. If you think about it calmly, it's too much money."

Yeah but people will pay it and that's that. And for that loot you don't just get the Stones but you also get the multi-million dollar stage, video and light set up.

Here in the States a pro basketball game costs $100 easily and hockey and football are nearly that much. A round of golf on an upscale course is $100 per person when you factor in a cart and so on. Stones tickets maybe insanely priced but they are generally in keeping with upscale entertainment prices. Here in the States anyway.

R Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but people will pay it and that's that. And
> for that loot you don't just get the Stones but
> you also get the multi-million dollar stage, video
> and light set up.
>
> Here in the States a pro basketball game costs
> $100 easily and hockey and football are nearly
> that much. A round of golf on an upscale course is
> $100 per person when you factor in a cart and so
> on. Stones tickets maybe insanely priced but they
> are generally in keeping with upscale
> entertainment prices. Here in the States anyway.

I agree with you, it's not only the Stones but sports too, and the whole concept of entertainment. But we should realise that $100 a concert or $90 a football match is quite a lot of money.

Show-biz, after all.




[There'll be no wedding today...]