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Plink
^^^
The last thing I expected in this highbrow educational thread was to suffer such an assault to the eyeballs . That detestable satin monstrosity must be incinerated!

All I've learned from this thread is who's at the top of the class and who's skipping school. Still hoping someone will share a test question or something about the Stones that is interesting and educational. peace

^^^^
Hey Naturalust, just for the record, my dismay that this "educational thread" has veered off into "satin jacket" territory was in jest. That said, I do deeply abhor the thing and feel compelled to chime in with my thoughts of disgust whenever I see pics of it . It’s a Pavlovian response over which I have no control.

Regarding the course, I just started it (after learning it was free), and have gotten only as far as the Andrew Oldham video. The professor is really Dullsville, as others have reported, but he can really rock a gray ponytail . I’ll have to take the quiz without seeing all the vids, as there is no way I’ll be able to watch everything by the deadline (Feb 3). Should be interesting…



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-02 10:57 by Plink.

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Naturalust
All I've learned from this thread is who's at the top of the class and who's skipping school. Still hoping someone will share a test question or something about the Stones that is interesting and educational. peace

How about this: The professor says that "oriental-sounding" riff in Mother's Little Helper is played through a Leslie speaker.
I'm not sure he's right (there's some dissent in the discussion forum) but if he is: I didn't know that.
And that's about as interesting as it's gotten for me so far.

He talks too much about which track was on which album released on what date in which country.
Maybe the stuff about the song structures (AABA blah blah) will get more interesting if he develops it more,
and it would be nice if he'd explain *why* the harmonics on Sad Day are so interesting
instead of just saying they're interesting with no elucidation.

Oh well.

Thanks with sssoul, truly appreciate the glimmer.

As far as the MLH riff, it's hard to say. Definitely electric 12-string guitar and I'd guess it was just the nature of a cheap slightly out of tune guitar played with a slide through a clean amp that makes that effect. It doesn't scream Leslie to my ears, especially if he used the Leslie amp, which usually produces a warmer tone....think Let It Loose.

The Sad Day harmonics are interesting to me because they sound so clean and pretty and they are played during a breakdown of the other instruments. Also they define an interval which is programmed into all our heads from a very early age through nursery rhymes and possibly even earlier. Like when an infant wails Mom-my
or Dad-dy.

Hope the class gets more exciting for you'all. I can just imagine this professor discussing the effect certain drugs had on the song tempos during the 1975 tour. peace

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Naturalust
As far as the MLH riff, it's hard to say. Definitely electric 12-string guitar and I'd guess it was just the nature of a cheap slightly out of tune guitar played with a slide through a clean amp that makes that effect. It doesn't scream Leslie to my ears, especially if he used the Leslie amp, which usually produces a warmer tone....think Let It Loose.

Thanks NL - my ears aren't sufficiently learned to have any opinion, but
Keith's gone into detail in at least a couple of interviews about the MLH guitar
and he never mentioned a Leslie. I think he would've mentioned it if they'd used one.

Now the Professor's gone on to Yesterday's Papers and he says there's a bass harmonica on it?!
Apparently a Beach Boys thing, but on Yesterday's Papers, Professor? Really??

And thanks for those Sad Day insights too. Someone's asked the Professor for more details,
and I'll pass them along if he offers any.

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with sssoul

Now the Professor's gone on to Yesterday's Papers and he says there's a bass harmonica on it?!
Apparently a Beach Boys thing, but on Yesterday's Papers, Professor? Really??

lol. I think you're right to be skeptical of anything this prof. says about instrumentation and equipment after that. peace

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Naturalust
lol. I think you're right to be skeptical

Thanks for the support! But what in fact is making that sound he must have in mind - Shirley Watts? _{<-- obscure Stones reference #736}

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with sssoul

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Naturalust
All I've learned from this thread is who's at the top of the class and who's skipping school. Still hoping someone will share a test question or something about the Stones that is interesting and educational. peace

How about this: The professor says that "oriental-sounding" riff in Mother's Little Helper is played through a Leslie speaker.
I'm not sure he's right (there's some dissent in the discussion forum) but if he is: I didn't know that.
And that's about as interesting as it's gotten for me so far.

He talks too much about which track was on which album released on what date in which country.
Maybe the stuff about the song structures (AABA blah blah) will get more interesting if he develops it more,
and it would be nice if he'd explain *why* the harmonics on Sad Day are so interesting
instead of just saying they're interesting with no elucidation.

Oh well.

Witness wrote a beautiful post on this earlier (in the thread where we discussed whether the Stones had gothic influences). I'll look around for it.

The Leslie-theory sounds unlikely to me. Where's the vibrations?

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with sssoul
And thanks for those Sad Day insights too. Someone's asked the Professor for more details,
and I'll pass them along if he offers any.

He's replied to the request for more detail this way (although I'm paraphrasing a lot):
The intro uses open strings to create some near-dissonance in the two-guitar interplay;
the verses begin with a lot of layering, with the vocal, piano and guitar having distinct lines;
then comes a very conventional section (the shift from E to D in the "I felt I had a dream" bit)
before going back to the interestingly layered stuff.
The chorus introduces something different, with the vocal and piano counterpoint seeming "rooted in classical music".
The whole thing mixes major and minor "in ways that might be derived from blues, but are no longer really blues".

And then there's that trippiness that creeps into the outro.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-03 14:40 by with sssoul.

You know what? I'm moving this discussion of Sad Day to the Track Talk thread about that song: [www.iorr.org]

See y'all over there I hope :E

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DandelionPowderman

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with sssoul

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Naturalust
All I've learned from this thread is who's at the top of the class and who's skipping school. Still hoping someone will share a test question or something about the Stones that is interesting and educational. peace

How about this: The professor says that "oriental-sounding" riff in Mother's Little Helper is played through a Leslie speaker.
I'm not sure he's right (there's some dissent in the discussion forum) but if he is: I didn't know that.
And that's about as interesting as it's gotten for me so far.

He talks too much about which track was on which album released on what date in which country.
Maybe the stuff about the song structures (AABA blah blah) will get more interesting if he develops it more,
and it would be nice if he'd explain *why* the harmonics on Sad Day are so interesting
instead of just saying they're interesting with no elucidation.

Oh well.

Witness wrote a beautiful post on this earlier (in the thread where we discussed whether the Stones had gothic influences). I'll look around for it.

The Leslie-theory sounds unlikely to me. Where's the vibrations?

That at times somewhat heated discussion starts on this page of the given thread that follows, where I mostly argue about "Dancing with Mr D", however, once mentions "Sad Day", without saying so much about it.
[www.iorr.org]
Later added: I said so little about "Sad Day", in fact, that one can hardly characterize that post as beautiful.
Added even later: Maybe it was, with me alluded to, referring to wrong poster, or if it really was to me, it was done in some kind of irony.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-04 09:24 by Witness.

Now the professor says Midnight Rambler is "kind of a cross between The Doors and Maxwell's Silver Hammer"
and that even though the very dark and dramatic studio recording was inspired by the drama of in-concert soul/R&B performances,
the Stones found it difficult to get Rambler right when performing it in concert.

WTF is this guy on?? Whatever it is: fu icky bah!

[The above has been edited a bit for clarity - sorry for being confusing the first time!]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-16 17:31 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul
Now the professor says Midnight Rambler is "very dark, kind of a cross between The Doors and Maxwell's Silver Hammer"
and that even though the studio recording was inspired by dramatic R&B/soul shows,
the Stones found it difficult to get Rambler right when performing it in concert.

WTF is this guy on?? Whatever it is: fu icky bah!

Just out of curiosity: what's your beef with this quote?

I'm not familiar with "Maxwell's Silver Hammer", so that part I cannot judge myself; but I can see where te reference to the Doors comes from, f.i. ("Well-haave-you-heaard-'bout-tha-Boston-..." )

I too think it's a very dark, ànd very dramatic piece of work; and I certainly can see how it can be associated with (dramatic) R&B/Soul.

And concerning that quote, "the Stones found it difficult to get Rambler right when performing it in concert": purely semantically speaking, he does NOT say that the Stones never succeeded in getting "Rambler right when playing in concert"... only that they found it difficult. Right?

The Maxwell's Silver Hammer part is exactly what I'm objecting to, Rough dear.
As you say it's no wonder why someone would make a comparison with the Doors,
call Rambler dark and dramatic, or see a link with dramatic R&B/soul performances.
But the guy did indeed seem to be saying that the Stones struggled and failed to get Rambler right in concert.
(That part of what I wrote wasn't a quote - I was paraphrasing - so the semantic analysis is off target there.
The only verbatim quote is the bit I put quote marks around.)

I'm sure everyone who's stuck with this course keeps wanting it to be good,
interesting, enlightening about some aspects of something. It's not like we're going out of our way to find fault -
it's simply disappointing that the teacher is making so many strange mistakes,
and that he seems not to know basic Stones lore like whether Redlands is a city or a studio or what.

Okay so it's only a free online course but still: When you teach you should know the basics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-16 15:06 by with sssoul.

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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with sssoul

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Naturalust
All I've learned from this thread is who's at the top of the class and who's skipping school. Still hoping someone will share a test question or something about the Stones that is interesting and educational. peace

How about this: The professor says that "oriental-sounding" riff in Mother's Little Helper is played through a Leslie speaker.
I'm not sure he's right (there's some dissent in the discussion forum) but if he is: I didn't know that.
And that's about as interesting as it's gotten for me so far.

He talks too much about which track was on which album released on what date in which country.
Maybe the stuff about the song structures (AABA blah blah) will get more interesting if he develops it more,
and it would be nice if he'd explain *why* the harmonics on Sad Day are so interesting
instead of just saying they're interesting with no elucidation.

Oh well.

Witness wrote a beautiful post on this earlier (in the thread where we discussed whether the Stones had gothic influences). I'll look around for it.

The Leslie-theory sounds unlikely to me. Where's the vibrations?

That at times somewhat heated discussion starts on this page of the given thread that follows, where I mostly argue about "Dancing with Mr D", however, once mentions "Sad Day", without saying so much about it.
[www.iorr.org]
Later added: I said so little about "Sad Day", in fact, that one can hardly characterize that post as beautiful.
Added even later: Maybe it was, with me alluded to, referring to wrong poster, or if it really was to me, it was done in some kind of irony.

Sometimes a lot can be said with few words, Witness.

I just liked what you wrote there, and how you described Sad Day. But I too remembered the post as longer. Maybe you've discussed that song in another thread as well?

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with sssoul
The Maxwell's Silver Hammer part is exactly what I'm objecting to, Rough dear.

Quite right, too! That's the exact part that jumped out in your original description as being totally unfathomable (to me, anyway).

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with sssoul
The Maxwell's Silver Hammer part is exactly what I'm objecting to, Rough dear.
As you say it's no wonder why someone would make a comparison with the Doors,
call Rambler dark and dramatic, or see a link with dramatic R&B/soul performances.
But the guy did indeed seem to be saying that the Stones struggled and failed to get Rambler right in concert.
(That part of what I wrote wasn't a quote - I was paraphrasing - so the semantic analysis is off target there.
The only verbatim quote is the bit I put quote marks around.)

I'm sure everyone who's stuck with this course keeps wanting it to be good,
interesting, enlightening about some aspects of something. It's not like we're going out of our way to find fault -
it's simply disappointing that the teacher is making so many strange mistakes,
and that he seems not to know basic Stones lore like whether Redlands is a city or a studio or what.

Okay so it's only a free online course but still: When you teach you should know the basics.

Silver Hammer: OK! I'll check up on that. I'm getting curious, now!!

Quote/non-quote: ah - OK! It just looked (to me) like you quoted him, that's all...

And yep: even a free online course should cover the basics flawless.

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Beast

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with sssoul
The Maxwell's Silver Hammer part is exactly what I'm objecting to, Rough dear.

Quite right, too! That's the exact part that jumped out in your original description as being totally unfathomable (to me, anyway).

Thank you my dear and glamorous Beast - we grasp the serial-killer link of course but please!
I've devoted decades to wiping some lala tunes from my memory bank and definitely didn't need that ridiculous comparison.
He should've stopped his mouth after The Doors.

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RoughJusticeOnYa
Just out of curiosity: what's your beef with this quote?

As long as we're clarifying things here, Rough dear: I'm a pescatarian,
so can we make that "what's your halibut with this quote" instead?
"What's your soyburger?" will do in a pinch :E

Is this study of the stones an online course that anyone can sign up for or is it at a university ?

Thanks
Nate

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Nate
Is this study of the stones an online course that anyone can sign up for or is it at a university ?

Thanks
Nate

It is an online course that anyone can sign up for - at a university.

Coursera.org

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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Nate
Is this study of the stones an online course that anyone can sign up for or is it at a university ?

Thanks
Nate

It is an online course that anyone can sign up for - at a university.

Coursera.org

Thank you

I think I will do it.

Nate

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness
.

Sometimes a lot can be said with few words, Witness.

I just liked what you wrote there, and how you described Sad Day. But I too remembered the post as longer. Maybe you've discussed that song in another thread as well?

Your memory proved correct once again, Dandelion: We did have an exchange of views on "Sad Day" as a side kick in the Track talk thread for "Paint It Black", page 1. Others may preferably reread those two magically inspiring posts about that song from Silver Dagger and Doxa:
[www.iorr.org]

Edit: In my hurry and distraction I happened by accident to use the noun "expression", where my intention was to use "exchange". Now corrected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-16 22:48 by Witness.

All I know is he keeps putting me to sleep. Trying to stay interested but it's quite hard. Maybe because they can't play the songs.

I signed in too but didn't take the time to participate - now this thread seems to be very interesting too...
Weird the mistakes in contrast to discussing some obscure songs like Sad Day or (one of my favourite guitar sounds of all times) Yesterday's Papers.
My suggestion to Midnight Rambler / Maxwell's Silver Hammer is that they both deal with murder. But the Beatles' one is the lightheartest (creating a superlative by intention!) way to deal with murder whereas Midnight Rambler is the opposite. I'm sure both bands didn't know of the other's song until they were released.

Yeah, we get the killer connection, JJHMick, but the comparison is ridiculous.
There are miles of songs about killers that it would have made more sense to mention than that silly tune.
How about Stagger Lee [www.staggerlee.com] or any of these: [lightintheattic.net]
Hell, Tom Jones's Delilah would be a better one to mention than Maxwell's Silly Nonsense.

Bah humbug :E

OR what about deese ones ??????????

Frank "Honeyboy" Patt - Bloodstains On The Wall

Pat Hare - I'm Gonna Murder My Baby ----- He did and spent the rest of his life in the slammer











ROCKMAN

That Honeyboy number caught my attention too, Rock Man honey —
it's in that second link I posted.
Mack the Knife would be a good one too.

....Oh it is too...silly me not ta notice



ROCKMAN

John Lee Hooker - I'm Bad Like Jesse James ....mean lyrics



ROCKMAN

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with sssoul
Yeah, we get the killer connection, JJHMick, but the comparison is ridiculous.
There are miles of songs about killers that it would have made more sense to mention than that silly tune.
How about Stagger Lee [www.staggerlee.com] or any of these: [lightintheattic.net]
Hell, Tom Jones's Delilah would be a better one to mention than Maxwell's Silly Nonsense.

Bah humbug :E

lol. Yeah Maxwell was way too light and silly to be taken seriously. To even mention it in the same paragraph as Rambler boggles the mind. Either your teacher is just fishing for a reaction or he is as out of it about the music as he is about the equipment and instrumentation. I hope you guys aren't letting him get away with it. peace