this topic comes up here every few months and we have mostly the same ideas,some blame keith,some blame mick.

the truth is-they both screwed up for one simple fact,they are human beings.
being a musician of that caliber means you have to pour out alot of feeling and be very on edge-keith lets it fly and mick hides it but its the same thing,
they are in the business of sound and emotion.

where they got their feet tangled was when it went sideways keith acted out and told the press things that should have been kept in-house.

micks a-type personality caught up with him-he should have been straightforward with the band - this is a mess,i'm gonna take some time off and i want you guys to do the same,we'll get back together in two years.
instead mick tried to juggle everything at once like he always does and got everyone angry with him.

it should have been straight up-we're on hiatus.take care of your drug problems,get your solo records out,let the emotions settle and get back to work at the proper time.things would've been fine-and they were. it just took way longer than it should've and was way to messy.lesson learned,can't wait for the next shows in the fall.

I'm pretty sure Keith tried every other way before going to the press...

He was disappointed and there was no communication. That was where they fvcked up.

last part from KR words to NME

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DandelionPowderman
I'm pretty sure Keith tried every other way before going to the press...

He was disappointed and there was no communication. That was where they fvcked up.

I'm pretty sure MJ tried every possible way for years and years to keep going with KR and with the band.
At some point it stopped working for him in that way.
A couple of days later KR found out that after putting it against a bottle he could do something else with his mouth so he called a journalist.
And as someone suggested the self awareness of junkies is not record breaking high. Especially when named Richards. There's always a lot of pretention and suggestion in his words but when you look at all the facts you know his talk is cheap.
At the same time they still have fun together! In a way.
That's what makes it interesting and partly because of this fascination we all like to chat about it.
But don't forget the facts: most of the work KR does is just talking.
He's got that attitude for decades but since a year or so Im browned off with KR.

But here he had just finished an album (where he contributed with way more than just talking) and wanted to tour.

There is one aspect we never discuss when talking about WWIII, and that is Mick's own coke habit. I'm speculating, but it could very well be that he wanted to avoid drugs while cleaning up himself + the solo deal.

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varilla
i rather prefer the new reborn friendship they seem to have nowadays

That friendship is based on no communication and shared interests in keeping the marketing name alive. They havent been friends for decades and the only reason they kept being some kind of friends after the 60s is Keiths heroin addiction. He went full blown addict when he realized Mick was top dog for Anita. And that's normal. It's amazing that they accepted each other for so long, performing on the same stage but with all that money and fame and power it's no surprise.

Dunno...could have been a factor. Especially when he was a heavy user but I don't think he was that deep into the snow, do you?

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dcba

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hot stuff


It was Jagger who was looking for something different.

yeah it was what Walter Yetnikoff whispered in his ear "you're the star of the band... You don't need the other three has-beens. It's time to start YOUR solo career".
Few ppl realize WY was as much destructive to the band in the 80's as was Klein in the 60's.

+1000. You obviously read "Hit Men" too.

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Aquamarine
I think it was also the title of a Faces song, back in the day.

Faces had a tune called I'm So Browned Off with Jagger?!
I thought that was Marylebone 5 or whatever they call themselves

Oh Lord, I'm Browned Off. Great Faces track

Walter was Iago to Mj's Othello. Mick was snorting more than just cocaine in that time period as well. Ronnie and Charlie had their problems. It was the 8o's! Ironically, it was probably an up period for Keith, shortly after marrying Patti, and he wanted to work. The Dirty Work sessions might have produced something very interesting but, as we know, it didn't really come to fruition.

Interesting that MTV always supported Stones videos through the 80's, including Steel Wheels, but never gave Jagger much solo play (or Keith, obviously).

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TeddyB1018
Walter was Iago to Mj's Othello. Mick was snorting more than just cocaine in that time period as well. Ronnie and Charlie had their problems. It was the 8o's! Ironically, it was probably an up period for Keith, shortly after marrying Patti, and he wanted to work. The Dirty Work sessions might have produced something very interesting but, as we know, it didn't really come to fruition.

Interesting that MTV always supported Stones videos through the 80's, including Steel Wheels, but never gave Jagger much solo play (or Keith, obviously).

I still have my doubts that really was going on. Sure he did a lot around gigs and all but as a serious life style...don't think he did as much as all sorts of stories want us to believe.

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Dreamer
Dunno...could have been a factor. Especially when he was a heavy user but I don't think he was that deep into the snow, do you?

Sorry, I meant Keith's smack addiction, the non stop period of 1968-1980 happened partly because he had to hide his anger (me thinks) and smack sort calmed or numbed his temper. I'm sure he felt very bitter in the 80s, at least at times, and felt he had sacrificed his health for the band. If Brian's death was the first sacrifice, Keith sure was the second. His health at least. And come to think of it he said it himself about Babyface during BtB. Work with Jagger and you become f--kface like me.

Mick's side of the story [www.theguardian.com]

I like the reference TeddyB1018...in many ways, the history of The Rolling Stones does play out like a Shakespearean play. In hindsight you can always see more clearly what went wrong in any given relationship and I'm sure Keith and Mick both look back at those years and wish they had done things differently. But, it is what it is...I just don't get why some here feel compelled to take sides. Obviously, they were both at fault.

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Redhotcarpet

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Dreamer
Dunno...could have been a factor. Especially when he was a heavy user but I don't think he was that deep into the snow, do you?

Sorry, I meant Keith's smack addiction, the non stop period of 1968-1980 happened partly because he had to hide his anger (me thinks) and smack sort calmed or numbed his temper. I'm sure he felt very bitter in the 80s, at least at times, and felt he had sacrificed his health for the band. If Brian's death was the first sacrifice, Keith sure was the second. His health at least. And come to think of it he said it himself about Babyface during BtB. Work with Jagger and you become f--kface like me.

Sorry, I was answering DP...
Apart from that I think you're too much in hypo on this..."I'm sure he felt" "work with Jagger and you become..."
Some people think...or are under the impression...but "I'm sure he felt" sounds like his twin brother or something. That's another thread.

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latebloomer
I like the reference TeddyB1018...in many ways, the history of The Rolling Stones does play out like a Shakespearean play. In hindsight you can always see more clearly what went wrong in any given relationship and I'm sure Keith and Mick both look back at those years and wish they had done things differently. But, it is what it is...I just don't get why some here feel compelled to take sides. Obviously, they were both at fault.

Maybe some people know it didn't go as it's often been told here.
I do agree it's Shakespearean.

When Mick supposedly did lines of coke (and other things?) to get through press conferences in the 80s, it could have been to get to his "stage persona".

It could also mean that he had a problem...

mick never had a drug problem-thats total bullshit.its never been said by him,anyone in the band or anyone who meant anything.

everyone did coke back then and doing alot of coke is not anywhere in the same universe as having a serious drug problem.if you dont know the difference you probably grew up in the time since the reagan era "war on drugs".

also,you guys have to stop believing everything you read.to actually think that mick jagger,who had been at the top of the music industry for half of his life at that point was some dumbass that would just sit there and have walter yetnikoff lure him away from the rolling stones-"you're the star kid,you dont need those guys"-is beyond laughable.

you really dont think he hadnt heard,seen and done everything 1000 times at that point?as if a light went on-hey,i could go SOLO!!" wow,that never come up before" this is a guy who probably has his clothes picked out for the next day when he goes to bed.trust me,he wasnt taking career advice from the under assistant west coast promotions man.

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Dreamer

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TeddyB1018
Walter was Iago to Mj's Othello. Mick was snorting more than just cocaine in that time period as well. Ronnie and Charlie had their problems. It was the 8o's! Ironically, it was probably an up period for Keith, shortly after marrying Patti, and he wanted to work. The Dirty Work sessions might have produced something very interesting but, as we know, it didn't really come to fruition.

Interesting that MTV always supported Stones videos through the 80's, including Steel Wheels, but never gave Jagger much solo play (or Keith, obviously).

I still have my doubts that really was going on. Sure he did a lot around gigs and all but as a serious life style...don't think he did as much as all sorts of stories want us to believe.

Sorry, Dreamer. I know he was snorting smack. He wasn't flaunting it but he was doing it around one of my crowds, with Hollywood show business friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-25 11:31 by TeddyB1018.

Was Keith the only one who was off the stuff at this time??

Might explain something about WWIII...

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lem motlow
mick never had a drug problem-thats total bullshit.its never been said by him,anyone in the band or anyone who meant anything.

I remember an interview from the '90s when Mick himself said it took him a long time to get clean.

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TeddyB1018

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Dreamer

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TeddyB1018
Walter was Iago to Mj's Othello. Mick was snorting more than just cocaine in that time period as well. Ronnie and Charlie had their problems. It was the 8o's! Ironically, it was probably an up period for Keith, shortly after marrying Patti, and he wanted to work. The Dirty Work sessions might have produced something very interesting but, as we know, it didn't really come to fruition.

Interesting that MTV always supported Stones videos through the 80's, including Steel Wheels, but never gave Jagger much solo play (or Keith, obviously).

I still have my doubts that really was going on. Sure he did a lot around gigs and all but as a serious life style...don't think he did as much as all sorts of stories want us to believe.

Sorry, Dreamer. I know he was snorting smack. He wasn't flaunting it but he was doing it around one of my crowds, with Hollywood show business friends.

Thanks for the info Teddy. Nothing to do with sorry btw: I just had my doubts
He did things but he's a funny guy. I have my doubts about his habits when no one is/was around... Don't think he was a heavy user with whatever he did three days a week for a couple of years or something like that..never years and years after each other every day of the week doing c, s & JD in any order and in liters or kilo's like KR

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Dreamer

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TeddyB1018

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Dreamer

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TeddyB1018
Walter was Iago to Mj's Othello. Mick was snorting more than just cocaine in that time period as well. Ronnie and Charlie had their problems. It was the 8o's! Ironically, it was probably an up period for Keith, shortly after marrying Patti, and he wanted to work. The Dirty Work sessions might have produced something very interesting but, as we know, it didn't really come to fruition.

Interesting that MTV always supported Stones videos through the 80's, including Steel Wheels, but never gave Jagger much solo play (or Keith, obviously).

I still have my doubts that really was going on. Sure he did a lot around gigs and all but as a serious life style...don't think he did as much as all sorts of stories want us to believe.

Sorry, Dreamer. I know he was snorting smack. He wasn't flaunting it but he was doing it around one of my crowds, with Hollywood show business friends.

Thanks for the info Teddy. Nothing to do with sorry btw: I just had my doubts
He did things but he's a funny guy. I have my doubts about his habits when no one is/was around... Don't think he was a heavy user with whatever he did three days a week for a couple of years or something like that..never years and years after each other every day of the week doing c, s & JD in any order and in liters or kilo's like KR

That was just the rehabilitation!

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stupidguy2

I wonder if Keith has ever had to 'handle' the 'idiosyncrasies' of a junkie.

Anita. And he dumped her as soon as he was off the gear.

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vertigojoe

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stupidguy2

I wonder if Keith has ever had to 'handle' the 'idiosyncrasies' of a junkie.

Anita. And he dumped her as soon as he was off the gear.

Well, that's not a very accurate description of what happened, is it?

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with sssoul

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lem motlow
mick never had a drug problem-thats total bullshit.its never been said by him,anyone in the band or anyone who meant anything.

I remember an interview from the '90s when Mick himself said it took him a long time to get clean.

And he did OD on something in 1976. Jerry claims he smoked heroin and he sure looked like he did in the 70s. To snort smack isnt and wasnt a big deal for the A-list as along as you have your vitamin drinks and daily workouts.
One thing is for certain: the huge effort to change their image and never ever get busted again also meant they could never ever allow footage like CS blues or any other dirty backstage stuff 1981 onwards.

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DandelionPowderman

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vertigojoe

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stupidguy2

I wonder if Keith has ever had to 'handle' the 'idiosyncrasies' of a junkie.

Anita. And he dumped her as soon as he was off the gear.

Well, that's not a very accurate description of what happened, is it?

Please enlighten me then.

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vertigojoe

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DandelionPowderman

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vertigojoe

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stupidguy2

I wonder if Keith has ever had to 'handle' the 'idiosyncrasies' of a junkie.

Anita. And he dumped her as soon as he was off the gear.

Well, that's not a very accurate description of what happened, is it?

Please enlighten me then.

Firstly, they slided away from eachother gradually while they were a couple.

Secondly, he maintained (to this day) a good relationship with her. She stays at Redlands.

Thirdly, he had problems long after they parted.

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DandelionPowderman

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vertigojoe

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DandelionPowderman

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vertigojoe

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stupidguy2

I wonder if Keith has ever had to 'handle' the 'idiosyncrasies' of a junkie.

Anita. And he dumped her as soon as he was off the gear.

Well, that's not a very accurate description of what happened, is it?

Please enlighten me then.

Firstly, they slided away from eachother gradually while they were a couple.

Secondly, he maintained (to this day) a good relationship with her. She stays at Redlands.

Thirdly, he had problems long after they parted.

Well all that may be true enough but as ever you give your hero the benefit of the doubt.