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Setlist evolution...
Posted by: ptr ()
Date: May 30, 2014 13:08

I dont want to make this topic very controversial, but there is one tradition which I´m thinking about. Since Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle tour, the setlist at the beginning of the tour are distinctively longer than at the end of the tour.

89 / 90 SW / UJ Tours - 27 songs at the beginning 23 at the end
94 / 95 VL Tour - 27 songs => 23 at the end
97 / 98 BTB Tour - 24 songs => 21 at the end (with exception of Turkish show with 19 songs)
02 / 03 Licks Tour - 23 songs => 19 songs
05/ 06 / 07 BB Tour - 22 songs => 18/19 songs

Current tour is similar case - from 150 mins show with 23/22 songs now it´s 19 songs and a bit over 2 hours. It´s still very good length of the show, but - the beginning of tour was much more "promising". Do you think that its "planned" like that from beginning of the tour (because it looks like that to me because you can even guess that when they get to the European Tour you can take first set minus four songs and that´s what you will get in Europe - its repeated situation)? The issue is described in many topics here - with less songs you have less space to do "obscure" stuff - setlists from beginning of the tour were very very interesting, but now - there are just place for three or four changes, other than that there are songs which "must be played" - I hope that this shortening of the set will end at number 19. What´s your opinion about that?

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: marko ()
Date: May 30, 2014 13:58

dunno,,,but this time Europe is much better 50 and counting was dreaful to my ears and boring,,when you put the show on 2 cd´s,,there was nothing to listen on cd 2,ven with taylor on rambler.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: May 30, 2014 14:20

Maybe we should also think of Charlie - he turns 73 years next Monday and he has to drumming the whole 2 hours of the concert.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: RoughJusticeOnYa ()
Date: May 30, 2014 14:29

Quote
Irix
Maybe we should also think of Charlie - he turns 73 years next Monday and he has to drumming the whole 2 hours of the concert.

...100% correct! thumbs up

Plus: I'd say, if we really want to compare in this context, we take a look at the (average) duration of the concerts per tour; not so much at the number of songs...

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: DiamondDog7 ()
Date: May 30, 2014 14:54

Los Angeles 2013 had the BEST setlist!! Take a look:



Get Off Of My Cloud

It’s Only Rock ‘N’ Roll (But I Like It)

Paint It Black

Gimme Shelter

All Down The Line

Faraway Eyes

Sway (By Request – with Mick Taylor)

Doom And Gloom

One More Shot

Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (with Mick Taylor)

Honky Tonk Women

BAND INTRODUCTIONS

You Got The Silver (with Keith on lead vox)

Before They Make Me Run (with Keith on lead vox)

Midnight Rambler (with Mick Taylor)

Miss You

Start Me Up

Tumbling Dice

Brown Sugar

Sympathy For The Devil

ENCORE

You Can’t Always Get What You Want (with the University of Southern California Thornton Chamber Singers)

Jumpin’ Jack Flash

(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: ptr ()
Date: May 30, 2014 14:56

I fully understand what you say (especially that drumming is very demanding job) but then - why dont start with 20 songs (and plus minus same duration of the show) and keep that standard for whole tour? I understand that Midnight Rambler and You Cant Always Get What You Want together are "equal" to three and maybe four short songs. smiling smiley They would even avoid the criticism which they got here after Hyde Park show, when they cutted the set from 20 Glastonbury festival gig to 19 songs (for their own concerts)...

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Sister Marie ()
Date: May 30, 2014 15:16

I don't care if their concerts = 19 songs if their duration is more than 2 hours. I love Midnight Rambler too much...

Obviously it is a very personal thing and we'll never agree about the ideal setlist. 'My' O2 London/29 Nov 2012 will probably stay the best setlist from these last years, because of 23 songs including MR, Lady Jane, etc. I don't like very much the Oslo and Lisbon setlists but anyway happy to see them soon. smiling smiley

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 30, 2014 15:37

More like setlist devolution lately...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-30 15:38 by 71Tele.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: May 30, 2014 15:52

the problem ist not so much that the set lists are getting shorter. The problem is rather that they keep all the greatest hits while the number of surprise slots is reduced

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 30, 2014 15:58

Guess I'm more a quality than a quantity guy. I would settle with 15-16 songs if the setlist was a bit more tempting. What counts in the end though is the quality of deliverance.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: rbk ()
Date: May 30, 2014 16:01

Another reason I'm glad to be an American. We see the Stones tours at the beginning before they start lopping off the more interesting stuff from the set.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: The Stones ()
Date: May 30, 2014 17:40

I'd say the show in Los Angeles May 3, 2013 wasn't that bad either regarding the setlist and the fact that they played 23 songs.

Get Off Of My Cloud
The Last Time
It's Only Rock'n Roll
Paint It Black
Gimme Shelter
Wild Horses (with Gwen Stefani)
Factory Girl
Emotional Rescue
Respectable (with Keith Urban)
Doom And Gloom
One More Shot
Honky Tonk Women
--- Band presentation
Before They Make Me Run (Keith)
Happy (Keith)
Midnight Rambler (with Mick Taylor)
Miss You
Start Me Up
Tumbling Dice
Brown Sugar
Sympathy For The Devil
--- Band off stage
You Can't Always Get What oiu Want
Jumping Jack Flash
Satisfaction

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: fahthree ()
Date: May 30, 2014 18:28

Quote
rbk
Another reason I'm glad to be an American. We see the Stones tours at the beginning before they start lopping off the more interesting stuff from the set.

The European leg of Voodoo Lounge was better than what we got.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: May 30, 2014 18:40

Quote
rbk
Another reason I'm glad to be an American. We see the Stones tours at the beginning before they start lopping off the more interesting stuff from the set.

you take what you can get I guess.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Turning To Gold ()
Date: May 30, 2014 19:24

I think they just get BORED on a long tour, and I think that getting bored musically often has the OPPOSITE effect on the music then what people think it should be - instead of wanting to play more and different songs, once they get jaded and bored then the band just want to get in, play what's comfortable, easy and safe, run the show on autopilot, and then get out of there.

I know in '81 and '82 some songs like "Tops" were dropped, because they just weren't working out right.

If you compare it to a job site, when you are bored or tired at work you don't do an elaborate, amazing job on things....you just do the bare minimum work possible, and then get yourself out of there.

Also in the beginning of a tour they have more to prove, to themselves, to the fans, to the press etc. At the end of the tour, the hype factor is over and they are just getting the repetitive paycheck after paycheck after paycheck.

It would be interesting to chart WHEN in each tour the set list starts shortening. For all we know, it could even be happening based upon the break even point of the tour. After a certain number of early concerts, which are needed to pay for the total stage, lights, crew, trucks, etc., everything else is profit from that point forward.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Date: May 30, 2014 19:30

I am not a set list apologist by any means but,to me,19 songs is MUCH more acceptable now in 2014 considering their advanced ages than it was in 2003.

The late September / early October 2003 Licks Tour shows were an example of the Stones coasting on cruise control.

They did not do much on that tour after filming Four Flicks besides performing "Salt of the Earth" one single time.

If they could play 22 songs in 2013 then they could have also played 22 songs in 2003 when they were nearly 10 years younger.

Also,I have NEVER noticed any supposed quality increase when the quantity is decreased.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: May 30, 2014 20:14

Quote
DiamondDog7
Los Angeles 2013 had the BEST setlist!! Take a look:



Get Off Of My Cloud

It’s Only Rock ‘N’ Roll (But I Like It)

Paint It Black

Gimme Shelter

All Down The Line

Faraway Eyes

Sway (By Request – with Mick Taylor)

Doom And Gloom

One More Shot

Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (with Mick Taylor)

Honky Tonk Women

BAND INTRODUCTIONS

You Got The Silver (with Keith on lead vox)

Before They Make Me Run (with Keith on lead vox)

Midnight Rambler (with Mick Taylor)

Miss You

Start Me Up

Tumbling Dice

Brown Sugar

Sympathy For The Devil

ENCORE

You Can’t Always Get What You Want (with the University of Southern California Thornton Chamber Singers)

Jumpin’ Jack Flash

(I Can’t Get No) Satisfaction
smileys with beer

Re: Setlist evolution...
Date: May 30, 2014 20:29

Songs 6 through 10 + Rambler .... great. Extra songs with Taylor in that section .... great. There's not much else to write home about there.

June 21st,2013 in Philly was a pretty good set list as well by 2013 standards.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: franzk ()
Date: May 30, 2014 20:34

It seems that halfway though every tour they are getting more and more bored. They skip some songs, they introduce fewer changes into setlist. Towards the end of each tour they seem to go on autopilot a bit.

Compare shows from early 2006 fall tour with the shows from late 2006 tour or shows from 2012 with 2014 shows - from experimenting (different openers, few warhorses, songs rarely or never played live) to predictable set, opened either with JJF or SMU.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Nate ()
Date: May 30, 2014 20:49

Quote
Turning To Gold
I think they just get BORED on a long tour, and I think that getting bored musically often has the OPPOSITE effect on the music then what people think it should be - instead of wanting to play more and different songs, once they get jaded and bored then the band just want to get in, play what's comfortable, easy and safe, run the show on autopilot, and then get out of there.

I know in '81 and '82 some songs like "Tops" were dropped, because they just weren't working out right.

If you compare it to a job site, when you are bored or tired at work you don't do an elaborate, amazing job on things....you just do the bare minimum work possible, and then get yourself out of there.

Also in the beginning of a tour they have more to prove, to themselves, to the fans, to the press etc. At the end of the tour, the hype factor is over and they are just getting the repetitive paycheck after paycheck after paycheck.

It would be interesting to chart WHEN in each tour the set list starts shortening. For all we know, it could even be happening based upon the break even point of the tour. After a certain number of early concerts, which are needed to pay for the total stage, lights, crew, trucks, etc., everything else is profit from that point forward.

What a complete load of horse****...do you honestly believe that they are touring to make money,they love what they do and that's why they do it.

Nate

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 30, 2014 21:36

Sometimes you wonder on which data Sir Michael makes his set list decisions. He seems to think that the average Stones fan likes to hear the same songs
performed in the same manner over and over again. Like schooled monkeys...

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: May 30, 2014 22:25

The 40 Licks Tour in the US had great set lists. On the European Leg, Except for the club shows, It became streamlined and more predictable. Ever since then its been a variation of that set list IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-30 22:26 by ryanpow.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: May 30, 2014 22:29

Quote
Stoneage
Sometimes you wonder on which data Sir Michael makes his set list decisions. He seems to think that the average Stones fan likes to hear the same songs
performed in the same manner over and over again. Like schooled monkeys...

"Well, you know, when you're, like, tied in with technology you can't really, you know, DO anything different." He didn't say that but he said that.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: May 31, 2014 01:24

Quote
ptr
I dont want to make this topic very controversial, but there is one tradition which I´m thinking about. Since Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle tour, the setlist at the beginning of the tour are distinctively longer than at the end of the tour.

89 / 90 SW / UJ Tours - 27 songs at the beginning 23 at the end
94 / 95 VL Tour - 27 songs => 23 at the end
97 / 98 BTB Tour - 24 songs => 21 at the end (with exception of Turkish show with 19 songs)
02 / 03 Licks Tour - 23 songs => 19 songs
05/ 06 / 07 BB Tour - 22 songs => 18/19 songs

Current tour is similar case - from 150 mins show with 23/22 songs now it´s 19 songs and a bit over 2 hours. It´s still very good length of the show, but - the beginning of tour was much more "promising". Do you think that its "planned" like that from beginning of the tour (because it looks like that to me because you can even guess that when they get to the European Tour you can take first set minus four songs and that´s what you will get in Europe - its repeated situation)? The issue is described in many topics here - with less songs you have less space to do "obscure" stuff - setlists from beginning of the tour were very very interesting, but now - there are just place for three or four changes, other than that there are songs which "must be played" - I hope that this shortening of the set will end at number 19. What´s your opinion about that?

Your observation is quite valid. The sad thing about 19 songs is that it certainly reduces the likelihood that rarities/obscure songs will get played. I do feel fortunate that at least I got to see them mix things up for the Licks tour.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: DiamondDog7 ()
Date: May 31, 2014 03:23

There's a whole a lot of discussion about the setlist here. And about the people who complain about the setlist. I'm also very disappointed about this setlist during the european tour. But let's be clear about this; everyone has his/her right to talk about the setlist. And most importantly, we ALL love the Stones. That's why we are here! So, please, don't be disrespectful to each other. ;-)

I still really think that the Stones decided to keep this whole tour simple in many ways. The 'warhorses' are easy for them and those songs are major crowdpleasers. Especially for the 'new' fans and festival lovers. This tour isn't really for the real die hard fans over here. Quite honestly, this whole tour isn't about pleasing the real fans, but pleasing the big crowd! The easy way I'm afraid.

About the setlist... the group's age is 70+. They don't remember the whole catalogue perfectly anymore and I think they don't dare to play them live. So, setlist exists about 19 well known songs. That's it. Disappointing for us as die-hard fans, but hey... that's it. :-(

And about the role of Mick Taylor... Great to see him back with The Stones. I'm a huge MT-fan and I went weeping like a baby when I saw him on stage on tour on YouTube. I was so happy. Amazing! But I think the Stones AND MT made some kind of agreement during this whole tour. They're all glad, but it's all business I think. It's the Rolling Stones. And MT isn't a Stone any more. That's why he's a special guest during this tour. Not very pretty unfortunately. Especially when he's playing just two songs during the whole tour! The Stones are having all control in this tour. No risk, no big roles for some (ex)members. Please don't forget, the Rolling Stones aren't a rock n roll band anymore. They are a huge coperation with a huge business.

So... again, I LOVE the Rolling Stones. They mean so much to me. But this whole tour isn't about pleasing the (REAL) fans anymore. It's about doing concerts, cashing in, and show off their egos. MT isn't used properly because of some arrangements within the group, I think. It's sad, but we have to accept this whole thing unfortunately, guys. These aren't the Stones of the 1969 or 1973.... :-(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-31 03:26 by DiamondDog7.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: hirschjaeger ()
Date: May 31, 2014 04:38

Quote
Sighunt
Quote
ptr
I dont want to make this topic very controversial, but there is one tradition which I´m thinking about. Since Steel Wheels / Urban Jungle tour, the setlist at the beginning of the tour are distinctively longer than at the end of the tour.

89 / 90 SW / UJ Tours - 27 songs at the beginning 23 at the end
94 / 95 VL Tour - 27 songs => 23 at the end
97 / 98 BTB Tour - 24 songs => 21 at the end (with exception of Turkish show with 19 songs)
02 / 03 Licks Tour - 23 songs => 19 songs
05/ 06 / 07 BB Tour - 22 songs => 18/19 songs

Current tour is similar case - from 150 mins show with 23/22 songs now it´s 19 songs and a bit over 2 hours. It´s still very good length of the show, but - the beginning of tour was much more "promising". Do you think that its "planned" like that from beginning of the tour (because it looks like that to me because you can even guess that when they get to the European Tour you can take first set minus four songs and that´s what you will get in Europe - its repeated situation)? The issue is described in many topics here - with less songs you have less space to do "obscure" stuff - setlists from beginning of the tour were very very interesting, but now - there are just place for three or four changes, other than that there are songs which "must be played" - I hope that this shortening of the set will end at number 19. What´s your opinion about that?

Your observation is quite valid. The sad thing about 19 songs is that it certainly reduces the likelihood that rarities/obscure songs will get played. I do feel fortunate that at least I got to see them mix things up for the Licks tour.

YOU are 100% right, this tour is not really for die hard fans as us, but anyway i have to think about weater i am swiss ,i f i will go to zurich, ist a Little bit silly,
years ago, i went even to USA in 1994 an 1997 to see them, and now, the are near me, i have to think about going to zurich

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: bonddm ()
Date: May 31, 2014 07:45

Re: the reduction in set lists from 23/24 to 19,why not just have an intermission like on the Licks tour if a continuous 2 and a 1/2 hour set is too much for Charlie and/or another member?
It's obviously not practical for the festival dates,but is for the arena shows, considering they don't have support acts and usually finish early.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: May 31, 2014 11:25

Quote
DiamondDog7

The 'warhorses' are easy for them and those songs are major crowdpleasers. Especially for the 'new' fans and festival lovers. This tour isn't really for the real die hard fans over here. Quite honestly, this whole tour isn't about pleasing the real fans, but pleasing the big crowd!(

Please define "real fans."

Re: Setlist evolution...
Date: May 31, 2014 15:26

Their setlists are really not THAT lame. It is just that dreaded second half. Pafter introductions.Even the band themselves must somehow switch on to some xsort of autopilot, come song 12. like someone said: CD 2 from late era shows are mostly not worth listening to.
When I am looking at setlists post '89 I find myself automatically zooming in on Song 4-6. that is where the suprises happen.

Re: Setlist evolution...
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: May 31, 2014 15:37

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Their setlists are really not THAT lame. It is just that dreaded second half. Pafter introductions...

Even Bill Clinton has become bored of their setlist!

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