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LuxuryStones
I liked the plain facts, written in an incredibly boring way, it made it almost juicy. Fun to read.
A pity Bill didn't write much about the Taylor years.

Incredibly boring is horribly underrated.

"Bill's book, like Barabara Charone's Keith book, is also great as a Brian Jones biography... They both feature him a lot."

I read this in 1990 as I was writing a school paper about the Stones - I was 13 and had not any interest in them. It was accidental that they were my chosen theme. However, I found this book in the library, it must have brand new then. I used it much for my paper, but did not think about it further. Two-three years later I re-read it properly and was hooked by Bill´s stories and especially about Brian. By that time I was getting more and more of a fan, and, much due to Bill´s descriptions and truthful writing, a dedicated Brian fan. It made me cry, and it did later as well. The same regarding his "homage" to Brian in Rolling with the Stones. It is time for me to re-read both of these books.

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones
I liked the plain facts, written in an incredibly boring way, it made it almost juicy. Fun to read.
A pity Bill didn't write much about the Taylor years.

Incredibly boring is horribly underrated.

Incredibly dry. I'm sorry.

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LQ1977
"Bill's book, like Barabara Charone's Keith book, is also great as a Brian Jones biography... They both feature him a lot."

I read this in 1990 as I was writing a school paper about the Stones - I was 13 and had not any interest in them. It was accidental that they were my chosen theme. However, I found this book in the library, it must have brand new then. I used it much for my paper, but did not think about it further. Two-three years later I re-read it properly and was hooked by Bill´s stories and especially about Brian. By that time I was getting more and more of a fan, and, much due to Bill´s descriptions and truthful writing, a dedicated Brian fan. It made me cry, and it did later as well. The same regarding his "homage" to Brian in Rolling with the Stones. It is time for me to re-read both of these books.

It left a big emotional impact on me as well.

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First I seriously doubt that when a women gets a gonorrhea from her husband she is just perfectly all right with it and strolls around the town with him as a happy couple and as with everything in the book I don't really see a human being behind it all.

Obviously, you are not familiar with British women. I have witnessed time and time again how they would turn their heads faced with obvious dalliances from their husbands. They have a house, car, money, don't need to work and children. American women are not generally like this, but when you are coupled with a Rolling Stone, money, security, prestige and the like tend to make you look the other way (Jerry Hall). There are many benefits for the women that outweigh the blatant booty calls.

I don't think she must have loved him. I wouldn't put up with infidelity, no matter how much the cost, if I really loved someone. I would be out the door, regardless of money or security. I am just like that.

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Bassid6

Obviously, you are not familiar with British women. I have witnessed time and time again how they would turn their heads faced with obvious dalliances from their husbands. They have a house, car, money, don't need to work and children. American women are not generally like this, but when you are coupled with a Rolling Stone, money, security, prestige and the like tend to make you look the other way (Jerry Hall). There are many benefits for the women that outweigh the blatant booty calls.

Sorry, but speaking as an Anglo-American woman--this is WAAAAAAAAAAAYY over-generalized! (Just as one minor example, ever seen those US politicians' wives standing by their unfaithful men? And the British newspapers are littered with stories about women who dumped their philandering husbands, and for that matter, husbands who dumped their philandering wives. It cuts both ways, on both sides of the Atlantic, it's not a nationality thing.)

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LuxuryStones

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones
I liked the plain facts, written in an incredibly boring way, it made it almost juicy. Fun to read.
A pity Bill didn't write much about the Taylor years.

Incredibly boring is horribly underrated.

Incredibly dry. I'm sorry.

No need for you to apologize. Bill on the other hand...

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Happy24

It is overloaded with "facts," which is probably intentional, Bill obviously wants to show off what an incredible record of everything and what a great memory he has, which he both emphasises on more than one occasion.

Bill keeps a daily diary, and has done since long before he joined The Rolling Stones. His actual memory sometimes may be at fault - he's even older than me! - but his diary is totally reliable - and that's what he works with.

You have a point, Aquamarine. Any sort of prestige may stop anyone from rocking the boat, regardless of nationality. I have to say, from my own experience and nothing more, I have noticed a difference between the two with non-prestige couples. Hey, just an opinion. You don't have to agree and I certainly don't have to be right.

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CaptainCorella

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Happy24

It is overloaded with "facts," which is probably intentional, Bill obviously wants to show off what an incredible record of everything and what a great memory he has, which he both emphasises on more than one occasion.

Bill keeps a daily diary, and has done since long before he joined The Rolling Stones. His actual memory sometimes may be at fault - he's even older than me! - but his diary is totally reliable - and that's what he works with.

His diaries may not contain all that much interesting facts though, maybe mostly banal day to day stuff. Lots of parts of the book are clearly taken from other sources including NME, Record Mirror etc articles and so on.

Nowt wrong with that of course.

I think the book is very 'Bill'. Take it or leave it, this is the way he is, with no attempt to pretty up the prose, let alone the facts. He has none of Keith or Ronnie's charm but also a good deal less of their bullshit. He's plainly a more accurate historian than the other two who have written and even though, like all human beings, he sees things from the angle that portrays himself in the best light and is frequently a whinger (in a very British way), I still think he comes across as a kinder human being than the others. He gives a much more rounded portrayal of Brian Jones for instance than Keith, who can barely say a good word about the man. I'm glad we have both Life and Stone Alone. They couldn't be more differently styled accounts but given Mick and Charlie are unlikely to be so vulgar as to kiss and tell, its as good as it will get.

It's funny reading both books again after a long gap, found Bills stuff on womanising on the road more distasteful than I remembered before and, for all the furore, the actual "kiss and tell" in Keith's book was less than I remember - I suspect his remark " you should have seen what I left out" was nearer the mark than it seemed at the time of publication. I suppose any book of this sort is "of its time" and looks different years later.

Although I like Bill very much, I did find the mention of him getting heroin for Keith when Keith was on all fours, going through withdrawal in Toronto, to have been unnecessary, and a bit of a betrayal. That seems a very private bond between two people. Then again, maybe it was Bill's way of getting back at Keith for all those years in the studio where they waited for the junkie guitarist to show up, or finally come out of the bathroom, just so they could get around to their job of making music. I think that's the real reason Bill is not present on more Exile songs.

I've read Bill's book.

It's not perfect but it is honest...

Keith was a nightmare for the band for numerous years. They loved him but his drug habits and enablers were a nightmare for them. I know this from firsthand
experience.

Lady Jayne, that was a damned good post!

you can tell from the books that keith loves music, and bill... other things.

Hey Happy I haven't read Bills book for years now either but I do remember being quite disappointed. One quote I thought was really silly was how Bill had met a girl with exceptionally large breasts and he had been "deeply effected by this". What? So to Bill big boobs are like a deeply meaningful part of a relationship? I don't know but he came off seeming a little lame to me.
Then years later I read the account of the band at a certain recording/rehearsel studio somewhere in New England. Bill and his wife Astrid at the time come off looking like completely spoiled rotten narcissistic egomaniac rock stars insisting the management change the color of their room and freaking out about a spider in the bathtub. All in all Bill Wyman doesn't seem like much of a guy to me and I wouldn't care to know him should any of these reports be true.

Love your review -- thanks for taking the time and care to write it.

I find Bill's books to be a case of you "can't see the forest for the trees." So much data, and, as you say,
the lack of tea or the contents of a meal placed at the same level of detail and coloration (or lack thereof) as a
key recording session.

Generally, more data doesn't make something more credible or accurate -- tho it does give the impression of
credibility and accuracy. So, for example, from Rolling with the Stones, he says 24 hours before Altamont
concert "Mick and others involved with the organisation met up with Hells Angels to discuss the security
arrangements..." (p. 342). That is not accurate. Although I haven't yet interviewed Mick Jagger for my Altamont
documentaries, Mick could not have met with Hells Angels 24 hours before Altamont. The Stones flew in from
Muscle Shoals, went to the Huntington Hotel, chilled a while, ate, and Mick and Keith went out to the site.
Mick could not have met with Hells Angels about security at Muscles Shoals, certainly, and he did not meet with
them at the Huntington Hotel, and there were no Hells Angels at Altamont the night before--from what I have
thus far ascertained. And the day of Altamont the Hells Angels with whom he would hypothetically have spoken
were at Altamont already the morning of, or in an officers' meeting--while the morning of, Mick was at the
Huntington Hotel and then at the Ferry Building, where there were no Hells Angels.

More on Altamont:

- "Mick went to the site by helicopter to check out the scene." Um, no, he didn't. He [as well as Keith,
Ronnie Schneider, Tony Funches, Stanley Booth, and the Maysles brothers] drove there in 2 cars.

- "To begin with, Krishna monks provided the music as helicopters shuttled performers into the site." Say what?

- "The concert was due to start around 10am, but it wasn't until 1pm that Santana started playing."
From what I understand, it was scheduled to start at 1pm, and it did.

- "[Jefferson Airplane] Bass player Jack Cassady shouted 'Will the Angels please note that when
somebody's freaking out you don't help by kicking the shit out of him. I'd also like to announce that
Marty Balin was punched unconscious in that little comic number you just saw staged and I'd like to
say--' That's all he did say. The Angels charged into the band and when they'd finished only Grace Slick
was left untouched." Not Jack Cassady--Paul Kantner. Plus, totally fabricated quote. Plus, no one was
touched except Marty Balin; there was a short shouting match between Paul Kantner and Frisco Hells
Angel, Sweet William.

- "We didn't witness any of this first-hand, relying on reports of the violence which were coming
through to our hotel." If anyone heard about it at the hotel, it would have been Bill alone. Everyone
else---by the time any violence started---was already at the Ferry building: Mick J, Mick T, Charlie,
Stu, Stanley Booth, Ethan Russell, Ronnie Schneider.

- "We discussed whether we should do the show. Keith was certainly against going." Well, that's double
interesting, since Keith was already at Altamont, having spent a pretty amazing night before Altamont AT
Altamont.

- He also places himself at Altamont while the Flying Burrito Brothers played. The Stones (sans Bill)
arrived during the last part of the Burrito's set. Bill says he flew out to the site with his bandmates--when
in reality he traveled to Altamont alone, and late, because he had been shopping with Astrid.

And on and on. I only pick out the Altamont stuff -- but my experience of reading his books is they're
compilations of piles of data and thinly fleshed out anecdotes that contain so much chaff and questionable
material that I can't see much merit to them--other than he did make the effort to write books before anyone
else, and seems to have done his best.

- swiss

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rob51
All in all Bill Wyman doesn't seem like much of a guy to me and I wouldn't care to know him should any of these reports be true.

Not a 'guy'? He's probably the most authentic working class Stone, ever. He served in the RAF. He had real jobs, and supported a family before the Stones came along in his life. He survived World War II. and he was old enough to remember living through it. That hotel incident might have been him putting up with Astrid. We've all done it, no matter how much of a 'guy' we are.

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Wroclaw
The commision percentage about guitars and the DDR vs USSR should actually tell you if how much you LOOSE when you read a book that was repeatedly worked on. Here you read things as BILL saw them in real time...Bill say itvwas the Russian border? well... I could imagine some people said that in real time. The DDR was a Russian satellite country. I recall how for years people who immigrated from non Russian former USSR countries had to explain to people in the West they are "not from Russia" (yea I kniw the DDR was no Belarus).

Eventhough I generally agree with what you write, there is no way do defend that particular thing Bill wrote. I don't want to overanalyse two words in a book, but since its main quality should be the accuracy of the facts, I think it is not just nitpicking, that it actually shows a lot and it is worth to be pointed out.

Just like those figures about instruments. Throughout the whole book you read thousands of exact numbers. None of them are rounded. Exact numbers of instruments, exact amounts of money. Down to every penny. And then when there is one thing you can count for yourself, you find out that the information must be completely wrong.

But back to the East Germany / Russia thing. You are absolutely right that former USSR countries were for a long time and I believe actually still are thought to be "Russia" by many. Just like former Yugoslavian countries were / are referd to as Yugoslavia. But those countries really were part of USSR / Yougoslavia not that long time ago (eventhough USSR and Russia was not the same thing of course). On the other hand there are many many say 25 year old people even in Europe who have no idea USSR or Yugoslavia ever existed. But that is another (sad) story. Anyway, East Germany was never ever part of Russia or USSR. It was part of the Soviet block, or what it was called in English, but that is a HUGE difference.

You might be perfecly right in the thing that the soldiers Bill was among might actually call it "Russia." There were surely people of all kinds among the soldiers, some of them might even thought it really was Russia. The enemy was basically 80 miles away and the enemy was "Russia."

But there is absolutely no hint in the book it was meant that way. I seriously doubt that it was some general thing even at that time to refer to all Middle and East European countries as "Russia." According to your nick name I think you come from Poland. I bet you have never heard anyone refering to Poland (or East Germany, Czech Republic...) as "Russia." Just like I bet you have never heard anyone refering to West Germany as USA, which would be exactly the same logic.

Bill's book is not The Bible, it is not a book, where each word should be a subject of interpretations. If he writes that Oldenburg was 80 miles away from Russian border, he can not expect everyone to understand it that he meant the soldiers actually reffered to is as Russia or whatever. The fact that he published such thing (in 1990!!) is just wrong and that's it.

After writing all this I have to say again that I am refering to the translation that I have and I can not say the original says the same.

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rob51
All in all Bill Wyman doesn't seem like much of a guy to me and I wouldn't care to know him should any of these reports be true.

I met Bill a few years ago after a RKs gig, I was 16 and just started learning the bass. I told him this and he couldn't have been more charming, told me the best thing for me to do was to play with a drummer as soon as I can and he wished me all the best. It meant a lot to have my biggest influence be encouraging!

The man was a gentleman, pure and simple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-25 13:13 by Rollin92.

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Aquamarine

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Bassid6

Obviously, you are not familiar with British women. I have witnessed time and time again how they would turn their heads faced with obvious dalliances from their husbands. They have a house, car, money, don't need to work and children. American women are not generally like this, but when you are coupled with a Rolling Stone, money, security, prestige and the like tend to make you look the other way (Jerry Hall). There are many benefits for the women that outweigh the blatant booty calls.

Sorry, but speaking as an Anglo-American woman--this is WAAAAAAAAAAAYY over-generalized! (Just as one minor example, ever seen those US politicians' wives standing by their unfaithful men? And the British newspapers are littered with stories about women who dumped their philandering husbands, and for that matter, husbands who dumped their philandering wives. It cuts both ways, on both sides of the Atlantic, it's not a nationality thing.)

Hmm, wasn't it Tammy Wynette that sang "Stand By Your Man" which always seems to be played on the news every time there's a huge sex scandal involving politicians? ><

Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War

Sounds like writing books not Bill's forte.

Greek Goddess of Wisdom, Skill...& War

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Athena

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Aquamarine

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Bassid6

Obviously, you are not familiar with British women. I have witnessed time and time again how they would turn their heads faced with obvious dalliances from their husbands. They have a house, car, money, don't need to work and children. American women are not generally like this, but when you are coupled with a Rolling Stone, money, security, prestige and the like tend to make you look the other way (Jerry Hall). There are many benefits for the women that outweigh the blatant booty calls.

Sorry, but speaking as an Anglo-American woman--this is WAAAAAAAAAAAYY over-generalized! (Just as one minor example, ever seen those US politicians' wives standing by their unfaithful men? And the British newspapers are littered with stories about women who dumped their philandering husbands, and for that matter, husbands who dumped their philandering wives. It cuts both ways, on both sides of the Atlantic, it's not a nationality thing.)

Hmm, wasn't it Tammy Wynette that sang "Stand By Your Man" which always seems to be played on the news every time there's a huge sex scandal involving politicians? ><

Yes. That was what I was quoting . . .

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Aquamarine

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Athena

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Aquamarine

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Bassid6

Obviously, you are not familiar with British women. I have witnessed time and time again how they would turn their heads faced with obvious dalliances from their husbands. They have a house, car, money, don't need to work and children. American women are not generally like this, but when you are coupled with a Rolling Stone, money, security, prestige and the like tend to make you look the other way (Jerry Hall). There are many benefits for the women that outweigh the blatant booty calls.

Sorry, but speaking as an Anglo-American woman--this is WAAAAAAAAAAAYY over-generalized! (Just as one minor example, ever seen those US politicians' wives standing by their unfaithful men? And the British newspapers are littered with stories about women who dumped their philandering husbands, and for that matter, husbands who dumped their philandering wives. It cuts both ways, on both sides of the Atlantic, it's not a nationality thing.)

Hmm, wasn't it Tammy Wynette that sang "Stand By Your Man" which always seems to be played on the news every time there's a huge sex scandal involving politicians? ><

Yes. That was what I was quoting . . .

You never know what goes on in someone else's marriage. Maybe Bill's wife didn't make a fuss because she was not so innocent herself. Who knows?

I agree that Stone Alone is boring. But I think it is an important book. As other commented, it comes from an insider and while there may be factual mistakes, I think Bill gives a fairly real picture of the band. Keith's book is much more entertaining but I suspect it also has much more fiction.

In my view, Stone Alone is a must for a serious fan.

It's been quite some time since I read the book, way back when he was still with the band. The thing that struck me was, IIRC, at several points in the book, he made a point to mention that for the guys in the band, it has always been about the band. First and foremost, even before personal and family often. Then, shortly thereafter, he quits. I just thought this seemed hypocritical.

I enjoyed the book and wrote to Bill via the publisher. That would have been back circa 1991. About a year later I got a nice letter from him. I hadn't asked him to respond to anything so it was a thoughtful gesture on his part.

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Athena
Sounds like writing books not Bill's forte.

I wonder. How many books have YOU written?

Bill has done quite a few. From memory...Stone Alone, Rolling With The Stones, Stones' Cartoons, Chagall (2 versions), Blues Odyssey, plus several non-trivial books on archeology in the UK.

By any rational measure that's a good score.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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Athena
Sounds like writing books not Bill's forte.

I wonder. How many books have YOU written?

Bill has done quite a few. From memory...Stone Alone, Rolling With The Stones, Stones' Cartoons, Chagall (2 versions), Blues Odyssey, plus several non-trivial books on archeology in the UK.

By any rational measure that's a good score.

Right on Captain, couldn't agree more and he also managed to play his bass for 30 years in a pretty good band!

Although it probably won't be a big seller, I wonder when his book on the history of Gedding Hall will be done? I assume he is still working on it!

I remember something about toothpaste.