The Rolling Stones Gear book helps calrify matters with regards to the supposed photos of the stones debut at the Marquee club. Always a bit dubious that they are from that debut gig imo.

Brian's Harmony Stratotone guitar was bought in October 1962, this obviously means the July 1962 photos are not from July 1962 at all as Brian is shown playing his Harmony Stratotone.

In those supposed debut gig photos Keith is shown playing his Gallotone Valencia. Keith bought his Harmony Meteor guitar on or after 25th January 1963 so we can say the photos cannot date from before 25th January 1963.

This gives us a window of October 1962 - January 1963.

...

Another interesting addition in thos marquee photos is that a blonde Vox AC30 is shown. Bill owned one and donated it to the cause after he rehearsed with them.

...

Given the combination of the guitars in use in those photos it is most likley that the photos date from October 1962 and before 25th January 1963. The use of the blonde Vox AC30 suggests it may date from when Bill first started playing with them circa December 1962.

Going by Bill's Stone Alone book gig list, they played the Marquee on 10th, 17th and 24th January 1963.

So I think any of those 3 Marquee dates is when those supposed debut gig photos come from.

If we ignore the blonde Vox AC30 amp then the earliest those photos could date from is their appearance at Marquee in October 1962.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 21:24 by His Majesty.

Quote
His Majesty
The Rolling Stones Gear book helps calrify matters with regards to the supposed photos of the stones debut at the Marquee club. Always a bit dubious that they are from that debut gig imo.

Brian's Harmony Stratotone guitar was bought in October 1962, this obviously means the July 1962 photos are not from July 1962 at all as Brian is shown playing his Harmony Stratotone.

In those supposed debut gig photos Keith is shown playing his Gallotone Valencia. Keith bought his Harmony Meteor guitar on or after 25th January 1963.

Another interesting addition is that a blonde Vox AC30 is shown.

My conclusion is that due to the combination of the guitars in use in those photos it is most likley that the photos date from post October 1962 and before 25th January 1963. The use of the blonde Vox AC30 suggests it may date from when Bill first started playing with them so circa 14th December 1962.

Going by Bill's Stone Alone book gig list, they played the Marquee on 10th, 17th and 24th January 1963.

So I think any of those 3 Marquee dates is when those supposed debut gig photos come from.

If we ignore the blonde Vox AC30 amp then the earliest those photos could date from is their appearance at Marquee in October 1962.

According to the Marquee website, they also played there on 3th and 31th January 1963.

Cool, so long as the info in Rolling Stones Gear is right, the main point is that the "debut gig" photos date from circa October 1962 onwards not from 12th July 1962.

It's of course possible that Keith kept using his Gallotone Valencia as a back up even after he bought his Harmony Meteror in January 1963 so an end date to when the photos could be from is still some what open ended.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-22 21:31 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Cool, so long as the info in Rolling Stones Gear is right, the main point is that the "debut gig" photos date from circa October 1962 onwards not from 12th July 1962.

It's of course possible that Keith kept using his Gallotone Valencia as a back up even after he bought his Harmony Meteror in January 1963 so an end date to when the photos could be from is still some what open ended.

I haven't read Rolling Stones Gear book with due attention yet, but I think you've made a good spot.

If you mean this photo

[www.theworldsbestever.com]

(There's a good print of it on P48 of Rolling With The Stones)

then the fact that both Charlie and Bill appear in it means that it cannot be before Charlie joined (12th Jan 1963), and Bill dates it as April 1963.

If you mean another.... can you find it online and point to it?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

I think His Majesty is talking about these photographs:

Yup, that's the pics I am talking about. Long been claimed to have been from their debut gig, but that don't seem right.

I know that bv doesn't like us reviving old threads but here are some more photos from that night one of which seems to show Charlie on drums so validating HM's theory.






Charlie on the left?


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-12 16:23 by Deltics.

Great pics, Deltics. I haven't seen it before, thanks for sharing.

Yes, it looks like it's Charlie on the left, indeed.

I'm glad you revived the thread as I don't think I've seen those pictures before. Cool to see that someone had written "Rollin' Stones" and "Boy Blue" on Keith's guitar.

Peace,
Mr DJA

FANKS Deltics ... great to see



ROCKMAN

These photos are from Roy Carr's "An Illustrated Record" published in 1976 and are the first time that I saw them dated to July 1962.
The picture of Keith is obviously from the same date as all the other photos in this thread but that doesn't mean that the picture of Mick is too.






"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-12 17:12 by Deltics.

Thanks for this!

Further suggestive evidence that they are not from their debut gig.

I have never seen these photos. Does look like the Marquee. Since Charlie is there - maybe late January or Februrary 1963? The close-up of Mick does look familiar though. Maybe Stu took the photos since he is not pictured. Some of
the shots look like it could be his perspective from behind the piano. Thanks
for posting!

These photos are from 1963, I have yet to see any photo of the band without Bill or Charlie in the band. I have 1 photo of Stu from Dec. 1962. I have spoken over the years to Carlo Little, Tony Chapman, Collin Golding, Dick Taylor, Dick Hatrell
and Pat Andrews among others and not one seemed to recall having any photos of the band from July 12th 1962 thru Dec 31st 1962.
The photo of the band that has been circulating as the 1st gig and the rest of those from that show have been auctioned off over the years. I believe they may be Philip Townsend's photo's and he hooked up with the Stones I believe no earlier then 1963. I am not even sure these are from the Marquee club, but they may be..I want to date these photo as from Feb. 1963..(just a guess).

Quote
VideoJames
I believe they may be Philip Townsend's photo's and he hooked up with the Stones I believe no earlier then 1963.

I was trying to find some infos about Townsend's photos and I've found this tweet announcing that he died on March 15. Somehow I'm surprised that there was no news about it.

"Today we bid a sad farewell to the extraordinary Philip Townsend whose legacy lives on in his iconic photographs"

[twitter.com]

on the first photo from Keith in this thread on his guitar there is written (...) "Boy Blue" on the upper side and "Rollin' Stones" on the lower side

Today seems a good day to bump this just to narrow the date down a bit.
Charlie first played with the Stones on January 12, 1963 at the Ealing club after which they only played the Marquee on three occasions, January 17, 24 and 31.
They never played there again until 1971 by which time it had long moved from Oxford Street to Wardour Street.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Beautiful thread.
I love the Rolling Stones

Quote
Deltics
Today seems a good day to bump this just to narrow the date down a bit.
Charlie first played with the Stones on January 12, 1963 at the Ealing club after which they only played the Marquee on three occasions, January 17, 24 and 31.
They never played there again until 1971 by which time it had long moved from Oxford Street to Wardour Street.

It's not possible that Charlie sat in during their time without a regular drummer?

Has that ever been mentioned by the stones?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-13 02:53 by His Majesty.

Thank You Deltics for those 3 pics - have never seen them. And obviously I missed that thread.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Deltics
Today seems a good day to bump this just to narrow the date down a bit.
Charlie first played with the Stones on January 12, 1963 at the Ealing club after which they only played the Marquee on three occasions, January 17, 24 and 31.
They never played there again until 1971 by which time it had long moved from Oxford Street to Wardour Street.

It's not possible that Charlie sat in during their time without a regular drummer?

Has that ever been mentioned by the stones?

If he did it doesn't seem to have been documented.
All the usual sources give January 12 as his first date with the Stones.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

I just discovered this thread and these very nice pictures.
We are approaching the big bang
Thanks a lot.

1963

Checkout the amps.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
CaptainCorella
1963

Checkout the amps.

Harmony H306 and a Vox AC30... Possibly Bills.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-13 17:56 by His Majesty.

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Deltics

If he did it doesn't seem to have been documented.
All the usual sources give January 12 as his first date with the Stones.

I kind of find it odd that he wouldn't have played with them.

Tight timeline, easy for memories to forget and muddle things, ie like the whole memory of coming up with the name in Edith Grove.

A fascinating time.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Deltics

If he did it doesn't seem to have been documented.
All the usual sources give January 12 as his first date with the Stones.

I kind of find it odd that he wouldn't have played with them.

Tight timeline, easy for memories to forget and muddle things, ie like the whole memory of coming up with the name in Edith Grove.

A fascinating time.

Not to forget Andrew "locking them in the kitchen" and them writing "As Tears Go By" there or Muddy "painting the goddamned ceiling" at Chess!


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
CaptainCorella
1963

Checkout the amps.

Harmony H306 and a Vox AC30... Possibly Bills.

That's correct.

On the discussion of Charlie possibly having played (jammed?) with them prior to Jan 12th 1963, I'm reminded of The Beatles parallel.

It's well recorded that Ringo did play with The Beatles before the summer of 1962 - at which point Pete Best was sacked and Ringo invited in.

This in many ways does beg the question of how to find out how/why The Stones were so keen to get hold of Charlie. How did they know, other than by having him sit in, if in fact he'd be 'right' for the spot?

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
CaptainCorella


On the discussion of Charlie possibly having played (jammed?) with them prior to Jan 12th 1963, I'm reminded of The Beatles parallel.

It's well recorded that Ringo did play with The Beatles before the summer of 1962 - at which point Pete Best was sacked and Ringo invited in.

This in many ways does beg the question of how to find out how/why The Stones were so keen to get hold of Charlie. How did they know, other than by having him sit in, if in fact he'd be 'right' for the spot?

Quite.