When the Stones played Ford Field in Detroit in 2002, it was the first time they had played in downtown Detroit since the 1970s and I was kind of expecting, hoping, actually, to see some people who actually LIVE in Detroit at the concert. I'm sure the Stones would have been pleased if that had been the case. But at Ford Field, in the middle of a city that is 82% black, I think I saw one black person at the concert. I was surprised because this was a Stones concert after all and the Stones flaunt their African-American musical and cultural influences like no other white rock band. An All-white crowd at a Pink Floyd show I can understand, but for the Stones? In Detroit? Any theories on why this fairly funky band seems to have no crossover appeal?

"My brother's back at home with his Beatles and his Stones"

Well, I thinkl the Stones have crossover appeal: Blondie, Lisa fisher, Billy Preston, DARRYL JONES....etc.. Please get some rest, and post tomorrow...

Chris Fountain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Well, I thinkl the Stones have crossover appeal:
> Blondie, Lisa fisher, Billy Preston, DARRYL
> JONES....etc.. Please get some rest, and post
> tomorrow...

I'm talking about people who are not being paid to be there. People in the audience.

I'm thinking that the Stones have played Africa... As far as American blacks are concerned, they seem to be very favorable of the stones...Why they don't attend concerts maybe relative to their preferences or circumstances. They may allocate their time and efforts (which is limited to all) to particular groups..for example, I love earth wind and Fire but have never gotten around to see them..In other words it is somewaht cultural to the fact that only so much time can be dekegated

"I fiiink oool tatters hit riiight at a weak spot at us, d´´nt he?"

The hurting truth is that the Stones is a group for WASP, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (Farts) that is. Look at us! A sad bunch of lily-white wanking middle-aged wanna-be´s & even more has-beens or IWC never-has-beens-and-never-bill-be´s.

I dont wanna talk politics at this time of a fine Saturday nite; but goddam it I´d like to cheat in some Ethnology or Anthropology. The cats from Dartford act out all this weirdo stuff we all wanna do but never dear to.

I bet you all (me too) are out tomorrow with all the redneck neighbours in your small-house quarters of your town/villages/city´s middle class quarters, talkin bushes, car wash prizes & act like a real jerk.

Another thing is the Angels-connection that indirectly lead to Meredith Hundter´s death (even if that cat sure was no angel himself) at Altamont Speedway that sad nite in December 1969... It may have stuck in a strange sense.

I think outsiders see the Stones as a squareheaded, childish, sexist (whatever that means), macho, unaware, non-rockin´, old-fartish, pathetic kind of band... They may be right on all* these points... And that´s why se love ´em...! One thing the Stonws aint, that´s racists. They´re not nationalists either... Rich & cool cosmopolitans, that´s our boys.

* Well Ron seems to care about the environment, if you check his site out...

To finally blow all my own 50cent-hypothesises into little pieces: I think that´s not really true, that the negroes** or African-Americans, African-Europeans or African-Afghanistanians dont show up; they just become white while the concert is going on... The Stones get black in their turn...

** (no; I´m not aiming at offending. But watch your usage of words; 'cause always walkin´ with the stream might lead you to strange places...!!)
.....Hey, people; you know Jagger is called a whigger in anthropological circles; that means ~a white nigger, a person who is white but want to be a black... Note his most important role models & fixations - (after all the blues dudes) Li´l Richard, Tina, James Brown, Prince & Michael Jackson (and probably a row of other blacks after that)... And Richards clings to Chuck Berry, Otis Redding & hords of reggae cats after his forst bluesbathings in his youth, right?
...But maybe all this playing with roles (lot of playing with gender roles as well by the good Mick in the early 70´s & every now & then at other times too... ) may give us more loose roles & one day the all vanish... ? (Ha-le-lu-yah... )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-22 04:45 by Baboon Bro.

Baboon,

I'm Southern and grew up in NC ...You would marvel at the reverse discrimination I receive just because of an accent. I think all human beings are discriminated against as soon as they wake up..I'm just sick amd tired of folks singling out their own race , color or religion, or race as being trampled on..

I could pretty could imagine this 'cause that would not be so unlike what you experience when you move from Northern Sweden to Stockholm.

Btw Chris: From where in the south did/do you come from?

North Carolina

Jimi Hendrix was a fan of the Stones, god bless him.

I'm gonna get slammed for this by some folks, but I believe that too many blacks disavow their own musical heritage (the blues in particular) because it reminds them of old unhappy times. Sames goes for reggae.

The reaction--hip-hop and rap crap-- is a very poor attempt at establishing a new and separate identity. It isn't music--it just sucks. The urban black mentality WANTS to be downtrodden, and throws out this crap just to prove that whites don't get their eternal victimization obsession, which is increasingly self-induced and encouraged by loud-mouthed extremists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I am a Democrat, who believes in equality, BUT there are certain people who have a self-interest in keeping the old stereotypes alive.

Call me a racist if you want, but I'm speaking truth. However, if it weren't for black musicians, rock n'roll would never have happened.

How many black rock n'rollers do you know?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-22 10:38 by bassplayer617.

>However, if it weren't for black musicians,
> rock n'roll would never have happened.

Neither would jazz, disco, funk, R&B, reggae, etc. All of which have been adapted and employed by the Stones and countless other white bands by the way. It looks like with hiphop finally a music form has been formed that has not much crossover appeal.

- Koen.

Saw the Stones many times in the US, including Detroit in 2002, no black at all except in Cleveland where the woman sitting next to me was black.
The kind of "old ma" from "GONE IN THE WIND" with VERY big jewels.
Funny thing, before the show a lot of people came to salute her with politesse.
Thought she was the mayor or something.
Btw, you don't see black people in Europe too (London, Paris).

25 years ago, i saw James Brown in Toulouse (south of France) and 10% of the audience was white.I didn't know there was so many black in my home town!!

Yes and thanks to Jewish Americans black music has survived. Composers, producers etc. Black music is usually the best. Rap today can be really good if you listen to their voices, lyrics and rythm.

Hairball - Jimi H. loved 'em so much that he got Keef's chick, or was that the only thing he loved?

Rockin' Rookie Rocky

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm gonna get slammed for this by some folks, but
> I believe that too many blacks disavow their own
> musical heritage (the blues in particular) because
> it reminds them of old unhappy times. Sames goes
> for reggae.

----

> How many black rock n'rollers do you know?



Hendrix, Chuck Berry & Phil Lynott altogether is equal to a thousand whities imho!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-22 18:25 by Baboon Bro.

This is very simple to explain. The Stones started out playing popular black music but stopped doing so. After Miss You, the didn't play anything that resembled popular black music. With the current climate of balck music being hip-hop/rap based, I don't see how the Stones can be popular with the 20-35 or even the early 40s black crowd. I've discussed this fact with my black friends and they say that blues is "old" and not thier music. They see Motown as their parents music. The Stones are just an old white band. I mean,how many black folks go see Third Eye Blind??

IT's not political or racial, it's simply a matter of musical progression....or lack therein

bassplayer617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm gonna get slammed for this by some folks, but
> I believe that too many blacks disavow their own
> musical heritage (the blues in particular) because
> it reminds them of old unhappy times. Sames goes
> for reggae.
>

but reggae isnt an American 'musical heritage'

bump

Quote
bassplayer617
I'm gonna get slammed for this by some folks, but I believe that too many blacks disavow their own musical heritage (the blues in particular) because it reminds them of old unhappy times. Sames goes for reggae.

The reaction--hip-hop and rap crap-- is a very poor attempt at establishing a new and separate identity. It isn't music--it just sucks. The urban black mentality WANTS to be downtrodden, and throws out this crap just to prove that whites don't get their eternal victimization obsession, which is increasingly self-induced and encouraged by loud-mouthed extremists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I am a Democrat, who believes in equality, BUT there are certain people who have a self-interest in keeping the old stereotypes alive.

Call me a racist if you want, but I'm speaking truth. However, if it weren't for black musicians, rock n'roll would never have happened.

How many black rock n'rollers do you know?

wow
the level of ignorance/stupidity in this post is unfathomable

there are a few black Stones fans
Lisa Fischer Bernard Fowler Darryl Jones Steve Jordan Ivan Neville Cindy Mizelle Sarah Dash to name a few

Quote
duke richardson
there are a few black Stones fans
Lisa Fischer Bernard Fowler Darryl Jones Steve Jordan Ivan Neville Cindy Mizelle Sarah Dash to name a few

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, you're talking about people who are PAID to associate themselves with the Rolling Stones. Were they fans first? Who then became employees? I'm really not sure about that. When I said I saw only one black person at a Stones concert, I was talking about a guy who was in the audience. I wasn't talking about all the other black people who were being PAID to be there. Like the guys selling beer and t-shirts, and the backup singers and the bass player.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-21 16:25 by tatters.

?...

Quote
bassplayer617

How many black rock n'rollers do you know?

Living Color was a pretty good black rock band. Still around, playing clubs with all of the original members. Shame they didn't make it bigger. There was another black hard rock band in the early 90s, Eye and I, or I and Eye, something like that. Sexy female lead singer. Did a wicked hot cover of Lou's Venus In Furs. MTV wouldn't play the video. Too hot for them. Would have been a big hit if they had shown it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-22 01:55 by tatters.

Music is Music and fans are fans...let's leave it at that. No reason to over-think it.
Not sure where you live but when I go outside, I see Americans.
When I go to Rolling Stones concerts I see Rolling Stones fans.


IORR............but I like it!

Quote
sweet neo con
Music is Music and fans are fans...let's leave it at that. No reason to over-think it.
Not sure where you live but when I go outside, I see Americans.
When I go to Rolling Stones concerts I see Rolling Stones fans.

A thinking person might ask themselves why all American Rolling Stones fans look the same when all Americans do NOT look the same.

Imho the Stones sold BLACK music to a WHITE audience : blues, r&b, reggae, disco. (Fotunately they didn't try to sell us rap music) ><
If you're black you go to the real deal and you don't care much for these passers-on.

As an aside am I the only one who thinks the Stones music sank in the early 80's PRECISELY when black music sank too (Prince or M.Jackson? Rap? Mmmmmm.... where's my James Brown 4-cd box?)

Quote
tatters

Quote
sweet neo con
Music is Music and fans are fans...let's leave it at that. No reason to over-think it.
Not sure where you live but when I go outside, I see Americans.
When I go to Rolling Stones concerts I see Rolling Stones fans.

A thinking person might ask themselves why all American Rolling Stones fans look the same when all Americans do NOT look the same.

A thinking person might not make race a factor.

If you're just making an observation....fine...but when you go to a Blues club, Jazz Club, Barbershop Quartet,
Irish Dancing show, Polish Polka-fest etc.... do you ask why it doesn't look exactly like the American population?

People prefer different entertainment for different reasons.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-21 17:12 by sweet neo con.

I agree with tatters and SNC.,. Rolling Stones are a Worldly Band. "The greatest Rock n Roll Band in the World..." (GYYYYO). Next year should be fun!

Quote
dcba
Imho the Stones sold BLACK music to a WHITE audience : blues, r&b, reggae, disco. (Fotunately they didn't try to sell us rap music) ><
If you're black you go to the real deal and you don't care much for these passers-on.

As an aside am I the only one who thinks the Stones music sank in the early 80's PRECISELY when black music sank too (Prince or M.Jackson? Rap? Mmmmmm.... where's my James Brown 4-cd box?)

The shame of it is that even many black people don't seem to have much interest in the "real deal" anymore. I went to a Funk Brothers concert last year and saw very few blacks in the audience. I noticed the same thing thirty years ago when I'd go see Muddy Waters. I hate to make generalizations like this, but I find that most blacks don't embrace, and are in fact a little embarrassed by, their cultural past. Even older blacks don't have the same kind of nostalgia older whites have for old-school soul music.

As for Stones music and black music sinking at the same time, I would say that rock music AND soul music BOTH peaked in the early 70s.

Robert Plant (onstage): We're gonna do an old blues number. Do you guys know the blues?
tatters (in the third row): I know what you STOLE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-11-21 17:29 by tatters.