Great. I love the clip, too. Would be great to hear live.

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HopeYouGuessMyName
Till the next Goodbye followed by Time Waits for no one....these two somgs flow together so we'll.... IORR will always be one of my favorite albums, and it was the first that I owned contemporaneously with its release. I remember seeing the stones on Don Kirshners "Rock Concert" promoting three songs. I was at some party at someone home, and when this came on the TV - the party stopped to watch the Stones on TV - that was an event!

Never thought about it before but GHS was the first I owned contemporaneously with release and clearly IORR was the 2nd, B & B the 3rd... never realised it before but maybe this is why I love those albums when sometimes others here run them down.

How could Carly Simon and Mick Taylor both claim they co-wrote this one?

"Till the Next Goodbye" is one of my favorites from the IORR Album/Vinyl.

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71Tele
How could Carly Simon and Mick Taylor both claim they co-wrote this one?

There is a thread on this site which discusses and links various "Exile" songs from a Nicky Hopkins tape that surfaced somewhere a few years ago. In addition to alternates of Rip This Joint, Rocks Off and All Down The Line, there is an untitled instrumental which features some great guitar work by Mick Taylor, backed by Nicky's terrific piano playing. This instrumental is the genesis of "Til The Next Goodbye". The melody seems complete, so if Carly Simon added anything it might have been lyrics, however they all seem to 'Jaggeresque" to me. I doubt that Anita or Bianca would have tolerated Carly's presence at Nellcote, so her contributions, if any, were to a song that seems to have been written by Mick Taylor during the summer of 1971. Does this make sense?

...um ...um...eeeerr well I think I follow ya ...



ROCKMAN

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thkbeercan

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71Tele
How could Carly Simon and Mick Taylor both claim they co-wrote this one?

There is a thread on this site which discusses and links various "Exile" songs from a Nicky Hopkins tape that surfaced somewhere a few years ago. In addition to alternates of Rip This Joint, Rocks Off and All Down The Line, there is an untitled instrumental which features some great guitar work by Mick Taylor, backed by Nicky's terrific piano playing. This instrumental is the genesis of "Til The Next Goodbye". The melody seems complete, so if Carly Simon added anything it might have been lyrics, however they all seem to 'Jaggeresque" to me. I doubt that Anita or Bianca would have tolerated Carly's presence at Nellcote, so her contributions, if any, were to a song that seems to have been written by Mick Taylor during the summer of 1971. Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense, and actually the first time I hear someone making a coherent story of those 'too many cooks' behind the song! I haven't heard that untitled instrumental, so I just trust your judgment here. So, to fit that to Carly's story, Mick brought this rough sketch to "You're So Vain" sessions, and they together completed the song, that is, mostly wrote the lyrics. Carly's claim is a bit stronger - "her song" - but let that go to rhetorics (to emphasize the point) or bad (or selective) memory. Anyway, I also think that the lyrics are "Jaggeresque", and as I also take the song being melodically and structurally a typical Stones ballad, so I have always find it a bit odd that they (him) needed any helping hands, but of course, judgemental generalations like that - based on rough estimations of a 'trained' ear - cannot be applied to individual songs. Each case can be, and actually is, an unique deal.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-01 09:43 by Doxa.

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71Tele
How could Carly Simon and Mick Taylor both claim they co-wrote this one?

Might be a matter of perception, they might think that they contributed a significant part to the song.

Just an odd comparison: Listen to Frank Zappa's "Rat Tomago", it's a one chord 5 minutes guitar solo, not exactly a song, but it feels like a song to me and countless Zappa fans. Sometimes there's a grey era between songwriting, composing, improvising I.E adding something significant to a song. There are more examples.. but my remark will probably be a dead end street on iorr.org.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-01 11:57 by LuxuryStones.

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Doxa

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thkbeercan

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71Tele
How could Carly Simon and Mick Taylor both claim they co-wrote this one?

There is a thread on this site which discusses and links various "Exile" songs from a Nicky Hopkins tape that surfaced somewhere a few years ago. In addition to alternates of Rip This Joint, Rocks Off and All Down The Line, there is an untitled instrumental which features some great guitar work by Mick Taylor, backed by Nicky's terrific piano playing. This instrumental is the genesis of "Til The Next Goodbye". The melody seems complete, so if Carly Simon added anything it might have been lyrics, however they all seem to 'Jaggeresque" to me. I doubt that Anita or Bianca would have tolerated Carly's presence at Nellcote, so her contributions, if any, were to a song that seems to have been written by Mick Taylor during the summer of 1971. Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense, and actually the first time I hear someone making a coherent story of those 'too many cooks' behind the song! I haven't heard that untitled instrumental, so I just trust your judgment here. So, to fit that to Carly's story, Mick brought this rough sketch to "You're So Vain" sessions, and they together completed the song, that is, mostly wrote the lyrics. Carly's claim is a bit stronger - "her song" - but let that go to rhetorics (to emphasize the point) or bad (or selective) memory. Anyway, I also think that the lyrics are "Jaggeresque", and as I also take the song being melodically and structurally a typical Stones ballad, so I have always find it a bit odd that they (him) needed any helping hands, but of course, judgemental generalations like that - based on rough estimations of a 'trained' ear - cannot be applied to individual songs. Each case can be, and actually is, an unique deal.

- Doxa

Must be this one:

I'm pretty sure this is the song thkbeercan is referring to.

To me, it sounds more like an undeveloped Wild Horses/Tops-ish take - although the bridge here (which also has some of the same chords as WH and Tops with Keith's open G) is pretty similar to the one in Till The Next Goodbye.

Taylor only plays small bits here, though. Is there any info on him being the songwriter of this outtake?

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DandelionPowderman
I'm pretty sure this is the song thkbeercan is referring to.

To me, it sounds more like an undeveloped Wild Horses/Tops-ish take - although the bridge here (which also has some of the same chords as WH and Tops with Keith's open G) is pretty similar to the one in Till The Next Goodbye.

Taylor only plays small bits here, though. Is there any info on him being the songwriter of this outtake?

Of course not. But this is clearly TTNG in progress. Taylor's guitar work points at it.

yup, that's it.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
I'm pretty sure this is the song thkbeercan is referring to.

To me, it sounds more like an undeveloped Wild Horses/Tops-ish take - although the bridge here (which also has some of the same chords as WH and Tops with Keith's open G) is pretty similar to the one in Till The Next Goodbye.

Taylor only plays small bits here, though. Is there any info on him being the songwriter of this outtake?

Of course not. But this is clearly TTNG in progress. Taylor's guitar work points at it.

"Of course not"? If you say so

I know very little about this embryo of a song, but I've heard it a few times before. Someone would have had to tell Keith which chords to play, if he didn't write it, since he is carrying it - and if that was the case, my guess would be that Nicky did it - that's my take on it. Just guessing, of course.

It's not very similar to TTNG, is it - without the verses and the chorus? As I mentioned earlier, the bridge that is somewhat similar also is reminiscent of other songs.

Taylor's guitar work on TTNG is the "mexican/mandolin"-sounding licks. I don't hear them in here?

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
I'm pretty sure this is the song thkbeercan is referring to.

To me, it sounds more like an undeveloped Wild Horses/Tops-ish take - although the bridge here (which also has some of the same chords as WH and Tops with Keith's open G) is pretty similar to the one in Till The Next Goodbye.

Taylor only plays small bits here, though. Is there any info on him being the songwriter of this outtake?

Of course not. But this is clearly TTNG in progress. Taylor's guitar work points at it.

"Of course not"? If you say so

I know very little about this embryo of a song, but I've heard it a few times before. Someone would have had to tell Keith which chords to play, if he didn't write it, since he is carrying it - and if that was the case, my guess would be that Nicky did it - that's my take on it. Just guessing, of course.

It's not very similar to TTNG, is it - without the verses and the chorus? As I mentioned earlier, the bridge that is somewhat similar also is reminiscent of other songs.

Taylor's guitar work on TTNG is the "mexican/mandolin"-sounding licks. I don't hear them in here?

Me neither, but I meant that Taylor's guitar is this video is clearly pointing at the IORR-album's TTNG. Much better than Keith's slide on the album's version.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
I'm pretty sure this is the song thkbeercan is referring to.

To me, it sounds more like an undeveloped Wild Horses/Tops-ish take - although the bridge here (which also has some of the same chords as WH and Tops with Keith's open G) is pretty similar to the one in Till The Next Goodbye.

Taylor only plays small bits here, though. Is there any info on him being the songwriter of this outtake?

Of course not. But this is clearly TTNG in progress. Taylor's guitar work points at it.

"Of course not"? If you say so

I know very little about this embryo of a song, but I've heard it a few times before. Someone would have had to tell Keith which chords to play, if he didn't write it, since he is carrying it - and if that was the case, my guess would be that Nicky did it - that's my take on it. Just guessing, of course.

It's not very similar to TTNG, is it - without the verses and the chorus? As I mentioned earlier, the bridge that is somewhat similar also is reminiscent of other songs.

Taylor's guitar work on TTNG is the "mexican/mandolin"-sounding licks. I don't hear them in here?

Me neither, but I meant that Taylor's guitar is this video is clearly pointing at the IORR-album's TTNG. Much better than Keith's slide on the album's version.

Taylor's slide is better for other things, but doesn't sound like it's for TTNG. Keith's slide - together with Taylor's latino-licks, is perfect for the song that ended up on IORR - although the song isn't remotely near even their mediocre ballads, imo.

There's the famous story Nick Kent tells of interviewing Taylor about the IORR LP, and Taylor mentioning he has writing credits. Kent then shows him the album cover, and alals, no credits. I think TTNG was one of the songs Taylor expected a credit on (maybe TWFNO is the other?).

I think he said TTNG and PERHAPS another one, if memory serves. .

This track is like "Indian girl" and "Under the radar" for me. It starts off well and I like it (well except that yuk opening line) but then somewhere along the line seems to get lost and never return.

I've always liked it. There's a I guess you call it "cinematic" quality to the lyrics I that I dig. That being said, this is also the beginnnings of self-conciousness slipping into the lyrics-a bit too thought out and trying to tell a story as opposed to letting the story tell itself.