Saw a recent link to an interview with Richards giving credit, justifiably so, to Taylor for expanding the sound of the Stones on the recent tour.

So what is the most amount of songs Taylor has been allowed to play in any given concert? 4 songs perhaps.

So by his own admission, Richards knows the best product is with Taylor playing yet he can't get him in on more songs?

NOTE FROM THE IORR EDITOR:
Please supply a link or documentation to such links before the discussion is getting to deep and/or serious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-04 01:54 by bv.

Because Keith makes all Stones-related decisions?

Honestly, these kind of interview statements make me puke. I know they need to promote their stuff - and this includes live shows - but who does Keith believe he is able to fool with such a statement? Taylor's only substantial contribution to the Stones live sound is - give or take a Sway here or a Can't You Hear Me Knocking there - "allowed" for just one song: Midnight Rambler. The acoustic guitar on Satisfaction is so pedestrian that it could be played by anybody. Slipping Away? Give me a break! What about Gimme Shelter or Sympathy?

I think you're giving Keith way too hard a time about this.

Brown Sugar
Tumblin Dice
YCAGWYW
JJF

The exchange on Sympathy for the devil on Get Yer Ya-Yas out was one of the best exchanges of guitar solos ever recorded. Ronnie has never had that level of quality. I like Ronnie...nice personality. But to sideline Taylor as a small cameo in show after show is a complete joke.

I wish they would let him "expand" it on HTW, Tumbling Dice, ADTL, Brown Sugar, SFTD, and Gimme Shelter.

He's being totally underused on these tours, and I think you can blame Jagger for that. If Taylor went to Jagger and said, "Hey, Mick, I'd really like to play on 4 or 5 numbers a night," Jagger would stop that in a heartbeat. But if Clapton or Jeff Beck said it (Hey, let me sit in a 4-5 numbers a night), Jagger would say, "Step this way."

and I think you can blame Jagger for that.

How come Mick always get the blame ... Don't the other three have any say????



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
and I think you can blame Jagger for that.

How come Mick always get the blame ... Don't the other three have any say????

Do they?

.... I want proof Tele ... proof it's all Mick doin' ....



ROCKMAN

He plays in behind on some of the songs - he is not on stage.

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mtaylor
He plays in behind on some of the songs - he is not on stage.

I doubt that. What would be the reason for that when so many want more of him onstage?

I thought I read somewhere else that Keith said if it was up to him Mick T would be back in the band? I am not saying it is Sir Mick's fault that Taylor is only a bit player but I wonder if the fab 4 have had that discussion about a permanent role in the band?

It's not exactly all that much of a compliment, I mean, Chuck, Bernard and Lisa "expands the sound of the Stones" as well.

They should have a web choice for the Taylor songs.

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His Majesty
It's not exactly all that much of a compliment, I mean, Chuck, Bernard and Lisa "expands the sound of the Stones" as well.

Yes, and that even on each and every song in the setlist!

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His Majesty
It's not exactly all that much of a compliment, I mean, Chuck, Bernard and Lisa "expands the sound of the Stones" as well.

True, but can we really say that they are any longer "expanding" the sound of the band, since they've been essential, even constitutive part of it now some quarter Century? Can Richards even remember how did the band sounded like before that "expansion"... Taylor, on the other hand, could now really add something to it.

- Doxa

I'm pretty sure Jagger had heard the "why don't you use MT more?" comments more than once.

I'm sure Jagger knows that for certain "war horses" MT could have upgraded the sound to a new level.

STILL: this is not happening. And I suspect it aint gonna happen. I mean... with all the difficulties in selling out the planned European tour, not to mention the AU/NZ gigs, the Abu Dahbi/Japan gigs could have been the best opportunity to go out there with a bang with the Taylor sound and not just with the Taylor as a gimmick as in 2012-3. I do not know why its not happening. Could be many things - more serious, just petty or issues that would be regarded as a pure folly. We do not know the exact answer - we would know better once this episode would be over - and even then - there would be several contradicting explanations. Was it a money thing? was it a technical thing? was it MJ and/or KR being stubborn? or maybe Taylor was just not fit, Taylor model 2014 I mean, for his Messianic mission "To bring back the Stones to their glorious days"?

It would be a drag to find out one day that basically all elements in the Stones were ready for this (MT in a substantial portion of the show) but it just didn't happen. I personally think that like the (now forgotten) issue of Bill W. back in 2012 - there is a more serious reason for why the Stones do not use Taylor for more than an appetizer, much like there is a "real" reason as to why the 2014 show follows the pattern of "Rolling Stones - the musical" (not cause they are lazy, do not give a @#$%& and are greedy bastards, but rather since the band as a whole are not capable to carry a whole show in any other pattern).

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Rockman
and I think you can blame Jagger for that.

How come Mick always get the blame ... Don't the other three have any say????

They have some say but Jagger rules and Keith, Charlie, Ronnie go along with this because Jagger has been masterminding the financial end, has been doing a great job for at least 20 years. So they defer to Mick.

Keith wants more MT
Jagger over rules this. The amount of MT you see on tour is what Jagger wants

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Wroclaw

I personally think that like the (now forgotten) issue of Bill W. back in 2012 - there is a more serious reason for why the Stones do not use Taylor for more than an appetizer, much like there is a "real" reason as to why the 2014 show follows the pattern of "Rolling Stones - the musical" (not cause they are lazy, do not give a @#$%& and are greedy bastards, but rather since the band as a whole are not capable to carry a whole show in any other pattern).

This is what I think too. There simply aren't other options in their package any longer - they are just doing their best to offer the show as good as they can, and any alterations in routines are minimalized. I mean, still, say, in 1997 they could have done anything, but that is not any longer possible. My personal opinion is that it is mostly to do with the ring master Jagger, who has the most demanding job to give the impression of his eternal youthness, and any risky factor in the band backing him up, is elimanated. The 'musical' needs to keep in hand.

The biggest riskies always are to be found on the guitar department, and adding there one unpredictable force, who knows what could happen. The guitar department somehow does its part fine at the moment, even though there is a terrible misbalance there. Richards plays what he can, and Wood - who is in a very good form - is backing him up there, and as a good team player and based on decades experience does his thing very tastefully - with an eternal respect to his 'older brother' - by knowing his place, and never oustshining maestro Richards (and doing any unpredictabilities to bother the show lead by ring master Jagger). That it is at least how it looks into my eyes.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-03 11:55 by Doxa.

Keith wants more MT
Jagger over rules this. The amount of MT you see on tour is what Jagger wants

... yeah but that just you surmising what is going on within the Stones camp...still not proof



ROCKMAN

While probably being asked about what Taylor does to the overall sound, he's saying that he expands it. Why is that even something we consider being a negative comment?

For the umpteenth time, we don't know why they choose to use Taylor the way they do.

Letting Taylor tie Slipping Away beautifully together is a nice suprising gesture from Keith, though.

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Doxa

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Wroclaw

I personally think that like the (now forgotten) issue of Bill W. back in 2012 - there is a more serious reason for why the Stones do not use Taylor for more than an appetizer, much like there is a "real" reason as to why the 2014 show follows the pattern of "Rolling Stones - the musical" (not cause they are lazy, do not give a @#$%& and are greedy bastards, but rather since the band as a whole are not capable to carry a whole show in any other pattern).

This is what I think too. There simply aren't other options in their package any longer - they are just doing their best to offer the show as good as they can, and any alterations in routines are minimalized. I mean, still, say, in 1997 they could have done anything, but that is not any longer possible. My personal opinion is that it is mostly to do with the ring master Jagger, who has the most demanding job to give the impression of his eternal youthness, and any risky factor in the band backing him up, is elimanated. The 'musical' needs to keep in hand.

The biggest riskies always are to be found on the guitar department, and adding there one unpredictable force, who knows what could happen. The guitar department somehow does its part fine at the moment, even though there is a terrible misbalance there. Richards plays what he can, and Wood - who is in a very good form - is backing him up there, and as a good team player and based on decades experience does his thing very tastefully - with an eternal respect to his 'older brother' - by knowing his place, and never oustshining maestro Richards. That it is at least how it looks into my eyes.

- Doxa

So Ronnie is a good team player doing his thing very tastefully for Richards who plays what he can while they all are in a terrible misbalance??
Some people can't get it out of their mouth!
Although you're not entirely wrong with your observations; so who do you think wants MT to play more when Ronnie is so very tastefully and with eternal respect to his older brother by knowing his place not outshining maestro Richards... That's the question people should answer for themselves.
The answer? For years KR is much better as a politician; he can sell anything he wants even if he's barking out of tune. He would never let MT play on 7 songs or something.
But hey, people believe they can vote for Silver Train believe anything...

For the umpteenth time, we don't know why they choose to use Taylor the way they do.


.... Yep that's it Dandelion ....



ROCKMAN

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Dreamer

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Doxa

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Wroclaw

I personally think that like the (now forgotten) issue of Bill W. back in 2012 - there is a more serious reason for why the Stones do not use Taylor for more than an appetizer, much like there is a "real" reason as to why the 2014 show follows the pattern of "Rolling Stones - the musical" (not cause they are lazy, do not give a @#$%& and are greedy bastards, but rather since the band as a whole are not capable to carry a whole show in any other pattern).

This is what I think too. There simply aren't other options in their package any longer - they are just doing their best to offer the show as good as they can, and any alterations in routines are minimalized. I mean, still, say, in 1997 they could have done anything, but that is not any longer possible. My personal opinion is that it is mostly to do with the ring master Jagger, who has the most demanding job to give the impression of his eternal youthness, and any risky factor in the band backing him up, is elimanated. The 'musical' needs to keep in hand.

The biggest riskies always are to be found on the guitar department, and adding there one unpredictable force, who knows what could happen. The guitar department somehow does its part fine at the moment, even though there is a terrible misbalance there. Richards plays what he can, and Wood - who is in a very good form - is backing him up there, and as a good team player and based on decades experience does his thing very tastefully - with an eternal respect to his 'older brother' - by knowing his place, and never oustshining maestro Richards. That it is at least how it looks into my eyes.

- Doxa

So Ronnie is a good team player doing his thing very tastefully for Richards who plays what he can while they all are in a terrible misbalance??
Some people can't get it out of their mouth!
Although you're not entirely wrong with your observations; so who do you think wants MT to play more when Ronnie is so very tastefully and with eternal respect to his older brother by knowing his place not outshining maestro Richards... That's the question people should answer for themselves.
The answer? For years KR is much better as a politician; he can sell anything he wants even if he's barking out of tune. He would never let MT play on 7 songs or something.
But hey, people believe they can vote for Silver Train believe anything...

Mick Jagger told you this backstage?

Keith has ALWAYS been "barking out of tune", but beautifully so...

MJ hardly ever talks about motivations like this.
Just don't forget it's really not in KR's best interest when MT would be playing on seven songs or something like that.
Just a band decision; strategy by KR & MJ. CW agreed fully. RW said 'great he's in'.
Simple commes bonjour.

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Dreamer
MJ hardly ever talks about motivations like this.
Just don't forget it's really not in KR's best interest when MT would be playing on seven songs or something like that.
Just a band decision; strategy by KR & MJ. CW agreed fully. RW said 'great he's in'.
Simple commes bonjour.

I was just pulling your leg a little, Dreamer

I don't doubt what you're saying, although I'm not that convinced about Keith being this vain late in his career... And why giving him that role on Slipping Away?

I would be Ronnie who'll have the most "to lose" on extending Taylor's stage time?

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DandelionPowderman

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Dreamer
MJ hardly ever talks about motivations like this.
Just don't forget it's really not in KR's best interest when MT would be playing on seven songs or something like that.
Just a band decision; strategy by KR & MJ. CW agreed fully. RW said 'great he's in'.
Simple commes bonjour.

I was just pulling your leg a little, Dreamer

I don't doubt what you're saying, although I'm not that convinced about Keith being this vain late in his career... And why giving him that role on Slipping Away?

I would be Ronnie who'll have the most "to lose" on extending Taylor's stage time?

Ha, he became vain late in his career!
RW doesn't think like that because there's no ego bothering him; with the Stones he's been winning for years. That's why I like him a lot. It's so nice to hear how he's playing lately. He deserves lots of credits for how the band is playing these '12, '13 and '14 tours.

Sure, he did. But THIS vain?

Ronnie has had a couple of bad tours - in his life! He deserves all the credit he can get. He plays his arse off on these shows. I really hope ALL the fans are able to see the amount of work he is putting into this. He is giving the tag "allround guitar playing" a new name on this tour

Wow, this thread is so full of tripe.
First, if you really know the Stones from their history as an outsider then Yes you could say that Jagger has much to do with how the band is seen and heard, etc. However, don't thin Keith Richard is some pansy. Keith has much to say about just has much influence. Charlie has long been involved with the tour planning alongside Jagger as well as other elements. Don't sell Ronnie short. He found a way to live, thrive, and survive in the Stones bubble when Taylor and Wyman could not.

Now, Jagger does or has done much of the business of the band but he had a lot of help from Prince R and Ahmet E. He got into to LSE but droppe dout for the Stones so we know he can smell a better deal but seriously folks he does not run the lives of the other members.

Oh, and as far as Ronnie's playing- yeah MT and Richards had a good trade of licks on Sympathy but it was clearly two different kind of players. Look at Beast of a Burden from 1978 in Texas. Ronnie and Keith compliment one another in style.

Also, on last note and this is fact not supposition. MT left the band some 30 years ago. Don't bash Ronnie just to try to make your love MT seem stronger. Give the guy some respect. Our band could have broken up long ago if not for Mr. Wood's personality, talent, and ability to play so many styles.