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Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 9, 2023 10:36

hang on there ... more like 95% .... hhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



ROCKMAN

The Rolling Stones vs The Beatles (UK Singles) (Please Please Me & I Wanna Be Your Man)
Posted by: JordyLicks96 ()
Date: January 10, 2023 04:04

Today we look at basically two Beatles numbers...except one covered by the Stones. It's Please Please Me vs I Wanna Be Your Man. Which song is better?

Please Please Me / Ask Me Why released on 11 Jan 1963
I Wanna Be Your Man / Stoned released on 1 Nov 1963








Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-21 02:27 by JordyLicks96.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 10, 2023 04:07

Oh my God.Please Please Me is one of the greatest songs ever with some of the greatest vocals. I Wanna be Your Man is crap

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 10, 2023 05:23

The Stones took the Lennon/McCartney tune to another level of raucousness, especially with that slicing and dicing slide guitar.
However, it's still just a cover as they hadn't quite found their way yet as far as originality goes, yet they did the best with what they were given - thanks to the Beatles!
That said, gotta give it to the Beatles' original Please Please Me... a stunning tune in every way - musically, lyrically, etc. - they actually beat themselves this round going up against one of their own tunes.
edit: And of course we can't forget the great Ringo led version of I Wanna Be Be Your Man as released by The Beatles- perhaps not quite as cutting as the Stones version, but it's still great!!!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 05:27 by Hairball.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: January 10, 2023 06:59

Quote
Taylor1
Oh my God.Please Please Me is one of the greatest songs ever with some of the greatest vocals. I Wanna be Your Man is crap

It depends, Please Please Me is a great song, catchy as hell and close to perfect.
I wanna be your man makes me want to do stuff other than just hum the tune, it’s got a different energy.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 10:04

Again, flip the records over...

The Beatles: "I love you, 'cause you tell me things I want to know..."

The Rolling Stones: "Stoned, outta my mind!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 10:04 by Congratulations.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 10, 2023 12:15

The Beatles: "I wanna hold your hand"

The Rolling Stones: "Let's spend the night together"

winking smiley

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 12:59

Quote
Irix
The Beatles: "I wanna hold your hand"

The Rolling Stones: "Let's spend the night together"

winking smiley

If the comparison was between 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' and 'I Wanna Be Your Man' (more fair, as they were released around the same time), then the Stones still come off sounding far more dangerous!

Post-Pepper is where The Beatles' singles really fall flat though:

All You Need Is Love vs We Love You

Hello Goodbye vs She's A Rainbow

Lady Madonna vs Jumpin' Jack Flash

Hey Jude vs Street Fighting Man

Ballad of John & Yoko vs Honky Tonk Women

The Beatles should've just given up! >grinning smiley<

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:08

Incidentally, I'm not Beatle-bashing. I'm a big fan, and if the comparison was between (say) The Beatles and The Dave Clark Five, then The Beatles would sometimes win. But almost any comparison with the Stones highlights just how great OUR band were/are (give me TSMR over Pepper any day!). That's why I'm on a RS forum, and not a Beatles forum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 13:21 by Congratulations.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:10

Quote
Congratulations

If the comparison was between 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' and 'I Wanna Be Your Man'

It was more about the meaning behind the lyrics - not about the sound of the song. winking smiley

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:11

The early Beatles1962-1965, were incredible. But during that period Stones had some great songs

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:13

Quote
Irix
Quote
Congratulations

If the comparison was between 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand' and 'I Wanna Be Your Man'

It was more about the meaning behind the lyrics - not about the sound of the song. winking smiley

Same here. Someone wanted to be "YOUR MAN" is far more suggestive than merely wanting to hold a woman's hand... I love the overall sound of 'I Want To Hold Your Hand', but frankly, I find the lyrics embarrassing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 13:14 by Congratulations.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:43

Quote
Taylor1
Oh my God.Please Please Me is one of the greatest songs ever with some of the greatest vocals. I Wanna be Your Man is crap

Wow, amongst the greatest songs? Seems quite an exaggeration, it's not even one of the Beatles greatest songs. And I Wanna Be Your Man is a decent tune, adequate for the Stones in that time period, but far from great.

That being said, Please Please Me is clearly the better song.

Kudos to the Stones, btw, as their I Wanna Be Your Man is far better than the Beatles version.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 15:48 by LeonidP.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 13:51

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Taylor1
Oh my God.Please Please Me is one of the greatest songs ever with some of the greatest vocals. I Wanna be Your Man is crap

Wow, amongst the greatest songs? Seems quite an exaggeration, it's not even one of the Beatles greatest songs. And I Wanna Be Your Man is a decent tune, adequate for the Stones in that time period, but far from great.

That being said, Please Please Me is clearly the better song.

It sounds like what it is: a speeded-up Roy Orbison type song.















Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 13:52 by Congratulations.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 14:31

Funnily, the musical anti-Beatles was born by a Lennon-McCartney tune. The change to "Come on" was tremendous: there they tried best to Beatlesize and white-wash a Berry tune, but here they are giving a poppish Beatles number a raw rhythm'n'blues reading.

The tune itself is pretty awful. The lyrics are a bit more daring than typical Lennon&McCartney ones, but the Beatles soluted that by making it a joke in their version so that no one get annoyed (to make that sure they gave it to Ringo, the official band clown to sing). Musically John and Paul were claimed to aiming to R&B direction, which in practise would mean picking up the musical idea from Berry's "Promised Land" to the verses and addng there a typical poppish sing-a-long Beatles chorus. The result is like a children's song musically, probably the worst tune the Stones ever would record.

But who cares. The Stones took the song, raped it to pieces, and made history. Andrew knew his shit by now - or let's say, he had done his home work. He didn'try to polish the band and its music any longer. He knew that their power and potentia, their distinction, lied on their original club circuit essence. The Beatle tune was just a bite. With it American Chicago-based R&B was introduced to pop audiences in Britain. They sound raw and dirty, call it garage rock, or proto-punk or whatever (something The FabFour would not even in their wildest dream to sound like on a recording). Soundwise it was a middle finger statement to anything prevailing in pop charts and on radio. The coolest rock band in Britain was born, the leader of the whole rhythm'n'blues movement that would shape up the whole rock culture.

It is an interesting footnote of history now, but still today Brian's killer slide part - introducing slide guitar to masses - is one of the most striking ones in recorded history.

"Please Please Me"? Oh gosh. I like early Beatles singles generally, but that particular one I always found just annoying. The band perfecting a boyband idea. Jagger refered to it on "Easy Sleazy"...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 14:44 by Doxa.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 14:42

Quote
Doxa
It is an interesting footnote of history now, but still today Brian's striking slide part - introducing it to masses - is one of the most striking ones in recorded history.

Special mention should also be given to Bill Wyman. His bass playing is more frantic - and more prominent - than pretty much anything else he ever recorded.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 14:55

Quote
Congratulations
Quote
Doxa
It is an interesting footnote of history now, but still today Brian's striking slide part - introducing it to masses - is one of the most striking ones in recorded history.

Special mention should also be given to Bill Wyman. His bass playing is more frantic - and more prominent - than pretty much anything else he ever recorded.

True! That is also true in regard to some of their other early recordings (listen, for example, the stuff on their first EP, recorded about around the same time as this single).

Funnily, of all contributors in "I Wanna Be Your Man", and in relation to what will come in future, probably the least distinctive, and the least significant to the over-all sound, is Mick. Mick still sounds interestingly insecure and low-profile, like not at all in control of his performance, voice and role.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 14:57 by Doxa.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Date: January 10, 2023 15:17

Quote
Doxa



"Please Please Me"? Oh gosh. I like early Beatles singles generally, but that particular one I always found just annoying. The band perfecting a boyband idea. Jagger refered to it on "Easy Sleazy"...

- Doxa

Ali was way ahead of his time already.


Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 15:21

Quote
Doxa
Funnily, of all contributors in "I Wanna Be Your Man", and in relation to what will come in future, probably the least distinctive, and the least significant to the over-all sound, is Mick. Mick still sounds interestingly insecure and low-profile, like not at all in control of his performance, voice and role.

- Doxa

Do you think so? I've always thought that Mick sounded so much more confident and assured than he did on 'Come On'.

It is Keith who is the "least important" on this recording, ditto on 'The Arthur Haynes Show' (note how Brian and Bill do the backing vocals on 'You Better Move On' while Keith is vocally silent - just like he was on their first EP and their first album except 'Tell Me').




Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: January 10, 2023 15:40

Quote
Congratulations
Quote
Doxa
Funnily, of all contributors in "I Wanna Be Your Man", and in relation to what will come in future, probably the least distinctive, and the least significant to the over-all sound, is Mick. Mick still sounds interestingly insecure and low-profile, like not at all in control of his performance, voice and role.

- Doxa

Do you think so? I've always thought that Mick sounded so much more confident and assured than he did on 'Come On'.

It is Keith who is the "least important" on this recording, ditto on 'The Arthur Haynes Show' (note how Brian and Bill do the backing vocals on 'You Better Move On' while Keith is vocally silent - just like he was on their first EP and their first album except 'Tell Me').



That's a great pair of recordings, thanks for sharing that Congrats.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 15:43

Although this singles comparison is now hidden in this general Beatles vs. Stones thread, I like its idea. For several reasons actually.

The first one is based on pure nostalgia and it gives me nice deja vu feelings. Not that I was around when these bands made history, but as a kid, during the early 80's, I recall doing exactly the same thing: checked UK single cataloque by both bands, and then listened the A-sides by both bands one after other (I needed to pick up them from albums). First the first Beatles single, then the first Stones single, and so on. Just like here. Since I was already a devoteed Stones fan, for me it was just confirming my own stance, and like distinguishing the clear differences between the bands (why I thought the Stones were superior, that is).

So from there comes the second one: I think the crucial difference between the bands can be seen and traced much better by following their single A sides. No matter how important the albums would come, the both bands were singles bands when they initially started, and this would continue still for many years. The singles were the statements by which the bands were known for, the ones played on the radio and defining their fate and status. Like Keith once descrided, it was a 'Killing Foor' - chasing number ones one after other, and you need to come every three or four months with a new one. The competition was hard, as it always is in hectic hit market: you are as good as your latest single is.

Thirdly, that of following the UK single cataloque is a spot on. Namely, from there their artistic progression can be seen more clearly. For example, the British Invasion took a bit later, and by then The Beatles were a pretty compact package. And even after international breakthrough, the both bands seemed to treat their home market with a special care (and why not, England, and London in particular, was the swingin' heart of pop music). Especially The Stones seemed to treat the huge American market initially with a trial and error strategy: releasing whatever kind of singles with some kind of hit potentiality and hoping some would make an impact (it would have been impossible for them to release "Tell Me" as a A side in England - that would destroyed their R&B credibility).

Anyways, I don't have much to say about the Beatles singles and what kind of 'progressive' story they do (since I don't have passion for that band). But of the Stones one I do. I think following their UK single history is one of the most exciting ones in the artistic history and development of the band. It really makes an unique story of its own. Worlds apart from the Beatles one.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 15:51 by Doxa.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 16:02

I've long argued that no-one had such a perfect run of UK singles as The Rolling Stones, from 'Come On' to 'Honky Tonk Women' (basically all their '60s Decca singles). The US single releases were a bit more variable, but they did include such gems as 'Mother's Little Helper', 'She's A Rainbow' and 'Street Fighting Man', none of which were UK A-sides during the 60s.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 16:04

Quote
treaclefingers
That's a great pair of recordings, thanks for sharing that Congrats.

It is the Stones' earliest surviving TV appearance.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 16:15

Quote
Congratulations
Quote
Doxa
Funnily, of all contributors in "I Wanna Be Your Man", and in relation to what will come in future, probably the least distinctive, and the least significant to the over-all sound, is Mick. Mick still sounds interestingly insecure and low-profile, like not at all in control of his performance, voice and role.

- Doxa

Do you think so? I've always thought that Mick sounded so much more confident and assured than he did on 'Come On'.

It is Keith who is the "least important" on this recording, ditto on 'The Arthur Haynes Show' (note how Brian and Bill do the backing vocals on 'You Better Move On' while Keith is vocally silent - just like he was on their first EP and their first album except 'Tell Me').



You are right about Keith, but it is not the first time, especially during the early days, that he is a man in the shadows. 'I shine when the band shines' as he would put his motto one day (although he doesn't always follow that doctrine). A team player.

But what goes for Mick I think the melody, or the song over-all, just doesn't fit to his mouth. It's like 'what the hell I suppose to do with this stupid children song melody'. I think decades later when they played it on 50 AND COUNTING shows the same attitude still shines through 'damn, this whole song is a bloody joke'.

It is, like Dylan would make fun of it a couple of years later.

So in my book the Jagger of "I Wanna Be Your Man is still similar to the one of" Come On" (like "I Want To Be Loved"), not yet discovering his own unique ways of interpretation, and trusting it. He still sounds a bit forced. But little by little, he is getting there... A sign of that is the last verse of the song when he adds some energy into it, leaving the Donald Duck territory.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 16:33 by Doxa.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 10, 2023 17:35

I think The Beatles and The Rolling Stones are both @#$%& excellent! thumbs up

Thanks for using my Brian Resource channel upload of the Arthur Haynes Show. A straight rip from the official DVD, available here: [networkonair.com]

smileys with beer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 17:45 by His Majesty.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 18:10

Quote
His Majesty
Thanks for using my Brian Resource channel upload of the Arthur Haynes Show. A straight rip from the official DVD, available here: [networkonair.com]

smileys with beer

Actually I bought the "complete" box set a few years back.

[www.amazon.co.uk]

Surviving shows are taken from edited US TV copies (because of this, appearances by The Applejacks, The Fortunes, Paul & Barry Ryan, The Searchers, The Swinging Blue Jeans and Unit 4 + 2 are lost forever), but Joe Brown, The Dave Clark Five, Freddie and The Dreamers, Gerry and The Pacemakers, Lulu, Susan Maughan, The Rolling Stones, The Springfields, The Vernons Girls and Marty Wilde all survive. Well worth getting for keen collectors of 60s music footage (like me!).

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 18:18

But since this is a singles comparison, I better look at the flip sides as well.

Damn, there is a story of their own. Since not having such a commercial significance, they can be more relaxed and offer something that probably says more of their true essence than the forced A-sides. Or like having managed the people to buy the single by its A-side, they would find from the flip the real thing that it is all about. A clever way introducing the blues to masses (the blues mission was on)? I guess yes, but at same time, a glimpse of that band that already had a cult following in London, and of music that little by little was gathering interest in the clubs all over the country (at least on certain big cities) .

"I Want To Be Loved" is like "Come On" served in an easy-listening form, pretty much close to the Muddy original in arrangement, but white-washed or Beatlesized by carefully getting rid of its raw edges. It is charming in its innocence and school boy-like cuteness, but I guess it's only true distinctive feature is that of introducing a Muddy Waters tune into pop audience. I wonder had there even been released any Muddy Waters covers before on Great Britain? Hats off for that!

"Stoned" was a perfect pairing for "I Wanna Be Your Man". Really 'no hostages taken' stuff. A riff borrowed from "Green Onions" and the band just on the loose, jamming raw blues like there is no tomorrow. Ain't that swing, huh? Brilliant. Brian and Stu shine, but even Mick's minimalism is damn effective and a spot on. Keith's guitar solo is striking, and offers, pretty casually with no any showmanship, the first indication of a feedback use (sorry Lennon and Beatlelogists). That Andrew let this supposedly totally anti-commercial song to be released, tells that he had started seeing the light (that of collecting the song royalties didn't hurt either, I guess).

I guess the Beatles singles also had B-sides, but I don't know what they were. Probably sweet pop tunes, but no so catchy as the A-sides.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-10 18:39 by Doxa.

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 10, 2023 18:19

thumbs up

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 10, 2023 18:30

Quote
Doxa
I guess the Beatles singles also had B-sides, but I don't know what they were. Probably sweet pop tunes, but no so catchy as the A-sides.

This is The Beatles' 'Please Please Me' B-side:





A nice enough song, but no 'Stoned'!

Re: Beatles vs Stones - and other Beatles stuff
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 10, 2023 19:27

Quote
Congratulations
Quote
Doxa
I guess the Beatles singles also had B-sides, but I don't know what they were. Probably sweet pop tunes, but no so catchy as the A-sides.

This is The Beatles' 'Please Please Me' B-side:





A nice enough song, but no 'Stoned'!

Okay, yeah. A harmless nice pop tune. I guess one could find some genius and revolutionary innovation there, like it seems to be always the case with the Beatles music, but not my cup of tea. I was about the press stop button when I heard the first line "I love you", but I gave it another 30 seconds until I did that. And put "Stoned" on...

- Doxa

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