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Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: August 24, 2013 23:24

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tatters
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keefriffhard4life
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tatters
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keefriffhard4life
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tatters
And how is it possible that this track, a staggeringly advanced achievement for a 1967 pop recording, got left off the Notorious Byrd Brothers LP and remained unreleased for 20 years?


well jefferson airplane released a version in 1968 on CROWN OF CREATION and there is a live version on CSNY FOUR WAY STREET from 1971

Neither of which existed at the time Notorious was released. It would have been the stand-out track on an already brilliant album. Admittedly, it doesn't really fit in all that well with the other tracks on the album. Crosby's stuff never really did, but so what? Who leaves off the best track on the album?

i was only pointing it out because you said the song was unreleased for over 20 years. the byrds version yes but the song was out there. crosby was not in the band by the time notorious was released so they probably made sure to cut some crosby stuff and just picked a track

Come to think of it, there really aren't any Crosby lead vocals on that album. Even on the songs he wrote, the vocals that are there are mixed very low and have a sort of "ghostly" sound, so, yeah, maybe they didn't want a guy who was no longer in the group to have too much of a presence on their new album. It could also be that he asked them to leave "Triad" off, thinking he might want to use it on a solo album or something. The other theory, of course, is that the song's subject matter wasn't in keeping with Roger's new-found love of the Christian life.

McGuinn didn't become a Christian until the late '70s, early '80s. Back then he was following a faith called Subud. Crosby's given mixed signals about this album. First saying he's "all over it, playing, writing, singing" even playing bass. Then he complained abut them stealing songs (Draft Morning) and Lady Friend not being on the album. Also, there's rumors that Gene Clark is on a few cuts. A few eyewitnesses remember him there, but McGuinn is unsure.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: August 24, 2013 23:33

Here's something really fascinating. It's a hidden bonus track at the very end of the remastered Notorious CD, and it captures the sounds of the original lineup coming apart at the seams. Crosby and Clarke were both fired within weeks of this session, leaving McGuinn and Hillman as the only remaining original members.



Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: August 24, 2013 23:55

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tatters
"I'm happy with the Byrds as a good memory," he tells Rolling Stone. "David and I have talked about this at length, and to me a reunion would just be for the money. We'd go out and play some sheds, maybe gross a couple of million dollars and split it four or five ways. I'm not attracted to expensive things. I don't need a Ferrari or anything like that."


Good for McGuinn. I am impressed.

I don't blame musicians who get back together for the bucks--they have to eat like everyone else--but I really admire McGuinn for not doing this.

"I'm not attracted to expensive things."


Now that is an artist.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: August 25, 2013 04:10

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loog droog
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tatters
"I'm happy with the Byrds as a good memory," he tells Rolling Stone. "David and I have talked about this at length, and to me a reunion would just be for the money. We'd go out and play some sheds, maybe gross a couple of million dollars and split it four or five ways. I'm not attracted to expensive things. I don't need a Ferrari or anything like that."


Good for McGuinn. I am impressed.

I don't blame musicians who get back together for the bucks--they have to eat like everyone else--but I really admire McGuinn for not doing this.

"I'm not attracted to expensive things."


Now that is an artist.

He's an artist, alright, but for once I wish he'd be more of an entertainer and give his fans one final treat before it's too late. I like the idea Crosby had a few years ago, which was for the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield to go out together on a co-headlining tour. I can see why Roger would hate that idea, as it would end up being more of a CSNY thing than a Byrds thing, but there must be some way Crosby can pitch it to Roger that he would find agreeable. Maybe do it as a tribute to Gene Clark? I don't know. As someone said, without Gene, it probably wouldn't be all that great anyway. The closest I ever got to seeing the Byrds, a full-on electric McGuinn-Hillman show in 1981, was surprisingly sloppy and lacking in energy. I've seen solo acoustic Roger McGuinn shows that were actually far more enjoyable, and that's probably always going to be the best way for a Byrds fan to hear Byrds music performed live. Chris Hillman, who I saw just a few weeks ago, also puts on a very enjoyable show, if Eight Miles High performed on a mandolin is your cup of tea.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-25 04:13 by tatters.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: August 25, 2013 04:33

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tatters
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loog droog
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tatters
"I'm happy with the Byrds as a good memory," he tells Rolling Stone. "David and I have talked about this at length, and to me a reunion would just be for the money. We'd go out and play some sheds, maybe gross a couple of million dollars and split it four or five ways. I'm not attracted to expensive things. I don't need a Ferrari or anything like that."


Good for McGuinn. I am impressed.

I don't blame musicians who get back together for the bucks--they have to eat like everyone else--but I really admire McGuinn for not doing this.

"I'm not attracted to expensive things."


Now that is an artist.

He's an artist, alright, but for once I wish he'd be more of an entertainer and give his fans one final treat before it's too late. I like the idea Crosby had a few years ago, which was for the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield to go out together on a co-headlining tour. I can see why Roger would hate that idea, as it would end up being more of a CSNY thing than a Byrds thing, but there must be some way Crosby can pitch it to Roger that he would find agreeable. Maybe do it as a tribute to Gene Clark? I don't know. As someone said, without Gene, it probably wouldn't be all that great anyway. The closest I ever got to seeing the Byrds, a full-on electric McGuinn-Hillman show in 1981, was surprisingly sloppy and lacking in energy. I've seen solo acoustic Roger McGuinn shows that were actually far more enjoyable, and that's probably always going to be the best way for a Byrds fan to hear Byrds music performed live. Chris Hillman, who I saw just a few weeks ago, also puts on a very enjoyable show, if Eight Miles High performed on a mandolin is your cup of tea.


Crosby's talking about how fun the reformed Springfield seemed to be having. Indeed, it was one of the best shows I've been to. Maybe Roger's got the right idea. I don't know. At this stage of the game, they could only play 1,000-seat places, maybe less, and only a handful of gigs.

Actually, a reformed Manassas seems more interesting to me.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: August 25, 2013 04:48

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tomk

At this stage of the game, they could only play 1,000-seat places, maybe less, and only a handful of gigs.


No, like Roger said, it would be a tour of summer "sheds" (outdoor amphitheaters). Eric Burdon is playing one near me tomorrow that seats 7200, and that's just Eric, not an "Animals" concert (though I think he still brings Hilton Valentine along for the ride). The Byrds could definitely fill places like that if the prices were right and they had the remnants of a couple good oldies bands as opening acts. (Eric's got Rare Earth and Brownsville Station.)

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: August 25, 2013 05:07

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tatters
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tomk

At this stage of the game, they could only play 1,000-seat places, maybe less, and only a handful of gigs.


No, like Roger said, it would be a tour of summer "sheds" (outdoor amphitheaters). Eric Burdon is playing one near me tomorrow that seats 7200, and that's just Eric, not an "Animals" concert (though I think he still brings Hilton Valentine along for the ride). The Byrds could definitely fill places like that if the prices were right and they had the remnants of a couple good oldies bands as opening acts. (Eric's got Rare Earth and Brownsville Station.)

My error. I saw the Springfield at the Fox in Oakland and that's 2,800 (seemed smaller). That's probably the approximate number. Keep in mind, though, Neil Young and Steve Stills will draw a lot more on name alone that McGuinn and Crosby. Anyway, this doesn't matter. I do wish Roger would reconsider it. I think eventually he will do it someday, just like Paul Weller will with the Jam.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: August 25, 2013 05:15

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tatters

I like the idea Crosby had a few years ago, which was for the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield to go out together on a co-headlining tour. I can see why Roger would hate that idea, as it would end up being more of a CSNY thing

That idea was first floated 40 years ago when the Byrds recorded their reunion album on Asylum. A stadium show with the Springfield and the Byrds, ending with CSNY.


How about a Manassas reunion? Isn't everyone still alive? The could do the entire first album....

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: August 25, 2013 06:15

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loog droog
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tatters

I like the idea Crosby had a few years ago, which was for the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield to go out together on a co-headlining tour. I can see why Roger would hate that idea, as it would end up being more of a CSNY thing

That idea was first floated 40 years ago when the Byrds recorded their reunion album on Asylum. A stadium show with the Springfield and the Byrds, ending with CSNY.


The "You Kicked Me Out And Now I'm A Superstar And You're Opening For Me" tour? Rog would never have given him the satisfaction. Would have been an easy gig for Nash, though.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-25 06:44 by tatters.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: August 25, 2013 09:06

The whole Manassas band is still alive...including Bill Wyman.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Date: August 25, 2013 09:53

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tomk
The whole Manassas band is still alive...including Bill Wyman.

i think wyman only played on a handful of songs if that. i thought it was just 1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-25 10:08 by keefriffhard4life.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomk ()
Date: August 25, 2013 09:57

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keefriffhard4life
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tomk
The whole Manassas band is still alive...including Bill Wyman.

i think wyman only played on a handful of songs if tat. i thought it was just 1

He did, but he seemed to be pretty enthralled with that band,

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: August 25, 2013 23:01

I don't think there is much money in a Byrds reunion. Seems like Roger knows this too because he always touring as a very Byrds oriented act. He would have an idea what the demand for Byrds is.

The time to make some good Byrds reunion money was 10-20 years ago.Touring, issuing a live tour record and DVD etc etc

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: August 25, 2013 23:50

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triceratops
I don't think there is much money in a Byrds reunion. Seems like Roger knows this too because he always touring as a very Byrds oriented act. He would have an idea what the demand for Byrds is.

The time to make some good Byrds reunion money was 10-20 years ago.Touring, issuing a live tour record and DVD etc etc

Some people seem to feel that the age of 70 is too late for such things. For years and years Stu Cook and especially Doug Clifford wanted for John Fogerty to agree to a Creedence Clearwater Revival reunion, but Fogerty just wouldn't have any part of it. Now that he is finally willing to do it, Doug Clifford has written it off as 10 years too late and he and Cook are content to tour in the CCR tribute band Creedence Clearwater Revisited.

I think there would be plenty of interest in a Byrds reunion. Not that it would make world headlines, but the hits of The Byrds have been a mainstay on oldies radio since the mid-80s. There are still plenty of concertgoers on the oldies touring circuit that would love to hear those hits they know so well performed live by the three remaining members who recorded them in the first place. Hell, people still pay to see Three Dog Night tour, even though there's only One Dog left from the original pack.

With a little research one might be able to uncover other reasons for McGuinn's reluctance, issues that may have left a little bitterness....

Byrds v. Byrds at: [ebni.com]

More Byrds v. Byrds at: [ebni.com]

The Byrds including Crosby have already reunited, first in 1988 and again in 1989. They played shows and even recorded new material together (four new tracks in Nashville in August 1990, which appeared on The Byrds Boxed Set). Note the enthusiastic response from the audience--no reason to assume they wouldn't get the same reception today.








Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: August 26, 2013 02:46

Creedence Clearwater Revisited came to a county fair just down the road from me recently and I had no desire whatsoever to go. John was and still is the band.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: August 26, 2013 03:02

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shadooby
Creedence Clearwater Revisited came to a county fair just down the road from me recently and I had no desire whatsoever to go. John was and still is the band.

As their final album Mardi Gras seemed to prove.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tomcasagranda ()
Date: August 26, 2013 12:39

I think Saul Zaentz was behind a decision that had other members of the band writing songs for Mardi Gras: it was one of the many reasons why John Fogerty hated Fantasy for a long period of time.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: August 29, 2013 17:21

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tatters


Come to think of it, there really aren't any Crosby lead vocals on that album. Even on the songs he wrote, the vocals that are there are mixed very low and have a sort of "ghostly" sound, so, yeah, maybe they didn't want a guy who was no longer in the group to have too much of a presence on their new album. It could also be that he asked them to leave "Triad" off, thinking he might want to use it on a solo album or something. The other theory, of course, is that the song's subject matter wasn't in keeping with Roger's new-found love of the Christian life.

I doubt Roger was a Christian back then but he was alawys a prude with a funny example of this being on a youtube video of Byrds on High Hefners PLayboy After Dark. It don't get more hip and swinging than thisspinning smiley sticking its tongue out







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-30 01:52 by triceratops.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: reg thorpe ()
Date: August 29, 2013 18:23

So McGuinn should donate his share to a charity of his choice...I guess he doesn't want to be a rock and roll star anymore

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: August 29, 2013 18:33

The Byrds have always been Roger's band. He is the only one of them that played on "Turn, Turn" and there were many stellar Byrd line-ups beyond the original, all of which muddies up a reunion. I'd rather see a full out McGuinn show than a reunion of the first line-up which was not really the best...


Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: nightskyman ()
Date: August 29, 2013 18:56

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tatters
Here's something really fascinating. It's a hidden bonus track at the very end of the remastered Notorious CD, and it captures the sounds of the original lineup coming apart at the seams. Crosby and Clarke were both fired within weeks of this session, leaving McGuinn and Hillman as the only remaining original members.


I've got that cd, remember listening to that part. It's a pretty nice surprise, but not sure who are the speakers. It seems McGuinn and at last one of other person are getting on Clarke's case, and Clarke threatening to leave (only reason he's there at all is the name recognition of the Byrds).

Anyway, I like that Byrds album (pretty varied).

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: Wry Cooter ()
Date: August 29, 2013 19:02

I love the Byrds and they are a fascinating band to say the least, what with all the different incarnations and styles and drama. A reunion at this point wouldn't mean much to me. The ship has sailed.

Arguably the greatest "artists" and songwriters who were in the band at some point are no longer with us in Gene Clark and Gram Parsons. You could throw Clarence White in there as a player even. But including due respect for the huge contributions of Crosby (stellar harmonies and a few great songs) and Hillman (stellar bass playing and a few great songs), there is no discussion really that McGuinn was the Byrds' centerpiece. As lead vocalist, guitarist, and leader. And again, a few great songs.

I was thinking of the Clarence White era Byrds and thinking of how many bands had two guitarists of that magnitude in their lineup simultaneously. The Allmans, the Yardbirds (though really there was usually one lead), Skynyrd?

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: nomis ()
Date: August 29, 2013 21:07

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triceratops
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stonehearted
Where was Dave Crosby for the 15th anniversary when McGuinn, Clark, and Hillman reformed to record an entire album, which yielded the top 40 single Don't You Write Her Off in 1979?

That project had no Dave Crosby and why should it? It was not an attempted Byrds reunion. When I saw just McGuinn and Clark touring right after that, they played that great tune. At the Paradise, Commonwealth Avenue, Boston. Was just them and their guitars. Gene Clark sipping green bottle Heinekens (Becks and St Paulie Girl were always better) But all rockers seemed to drink Heineken

One of the best (was very close intimate) I ever went too

I also saw McGuinn, Clark and Hilman in 79 and, indeed, it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. That LP was very good and they played all the Byrds tunes.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: August 30, 2013 01:26

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nightskyman
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tatters
Here's something really fascinating. It's a hidden bonus track at the very end of the remastered Notorious CD, and it captures the sounds of the original lineup coming apart at the seams. Crosby and Clarke were both fired within weeks of this session, leaving McGuinn and Hillman as the only remaining original members.


I've got that cd, remember listening to that part. It's a pretty nice surprise, but not sure who are the speakers. It seems McGuinn and at last one of other person are getting on Clarke's case, and Clarke threatening to leave (only reason he's there at all is the name recognition of the Byrds).

Anyway, I like that Byrds album (pretty varied).

It's mostly Crosby and Clarke, then McGuinn and Crosby get into it for a bit, and then they all sort of gang up on Clarke. Amazing that they would actually put this on a CD. It would be like the Beatles putting the argument between Paul and George in the Let It Be film on the album.

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: August 30, 2013 01:58

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nomis
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triceratops
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stonehearted
Where was Dave Crosby for the 15th anniversary when McGuinn, Clark, and Hillman reformed to record an entire album, which yielded the top 40 single Don't You Write Her Off in 1979?

That project had no Dave Crosby and why should it? It was not an attempted Byrds reunion. When I saw just McGuinn and Clark touring right after that, they played that great tune. At the Paradise, Commonwealth Avenue, Boston. Was just them and their guitars. Gene Clark sipping green bottle Heinekens (Becks and St Paulie Girl were always better) But all rockers seemed to drink Heineken

One of the best (was very close intimate) I ever went too

I also saw McGuinn, Clark and Hilman in 79 and, indeed, it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. That LP was very good and they played all the Byrds tunes.

McGuinn, Clark and Hilman should have carried on this way but as I remember there were money problems and hassles with the record company and the tour management and this lead to breakup. The three were not making the money they should have and expected to. All three were older, more mature and past their serious drug taking days so this should have lead to sucess. I guess Gene was always drinking

Re: OT: Roger McGuinn's and David Crosby's Thoughts On A Possible Byrds Reunion
Posted by: DoomandGloom ()
Date: August 30, 2013 04:38

When I was a kid I saw The Flying Burritos Brothers by accident, I've loved them and Gramm's contributions to The Byrds ever since.. Also saw McGuinn, Clark and Hillman years later and they were unforgettable. I recommend Roger's solo show to anyone who hasn't seen it.

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