Quote
carlorossi

Quote
24FPS
The rotten icing on the cake was Love You Live. There was a big demand for a live album and what we got was the first incarnation of the Vegas Stones (excepting the El Mocambo Side).

I alwways thought that '75 and '76 and LYL were the anti-Vegas Stones. VERY loose, sloppy and coked out. More so than any tour before. I think I know what you mean by 'first incarnation', but I don't think that these years qualify. Vegas Stones came upon us quickly and without warning, imo.

Quote
Edward Twining
IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL is perhaps the first Stones album where the stones-by-numbers approach first came into play on a large scale. In other words the Stones were recording typical sounding Stones songs (many of the rocking variety) but without any real sense of conviction or inspiration behind their creation. 'If You Can't Rock Me', the cover 'Ain't Too Proud To Beg', 'Dance Little Sister' and even the title track, for me are really short term pleasures, where if you scratch the surface, what lies beneath is pretty hollow. That's not to say they aren't enjoyable to a degree, because they are rather spightly, and in a sense, perhaps, more familiar stylistically to the average Stones fan, than some of those more meandering and melancholly offerings on, say, GOATS HEAD SOUP, for example, but unfortunately over repeated listens these songs don't stand up nearly so well.

Even the changes of pace songs like the ballads 'Till The Next Goodbye', 'If You Really Want To Be My Friend' and to a point 'Time Waits For No One', are somehow lacking, and, perhaps, also quite hollow. 'Fingerprint File' doesn't impress me either, as much as its funky musical direction suggests it might. 'Time Waits For No One' however, works well in terms of it being Mick Taylor's swansong, in retrospect, Although it isn't somehow as well rounded in terms of its construction and production as the tracks on the Stones more higly regarded albums, musically Nicky Hopkins and Mick Taylor cook up something rather transcendant, and haunting. 'Luxury' is perhaps the other highlight for me. I just love Jagger's attempts at a Jamaican accent in this. In a sense 'Luxury' also acted as a signpost to the much better BLACK AND BLUE within its slight reggae influenced sound.

IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL for me is the weakest Stones album of the seventies. If GOATS HEAD SOUP hinted at times that the Stones were in decline, with IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL, the Stones decline is pretty full scale throughout. The Stones were very much on autopilot. I still enjoy listening to the album, however, although it's always a toss up for me, to which is the weaker album between this and EMOTIONAL RESCUE. I have come to the conclusion that i like EMOTIONAL RESCUE more simply because the Stones were trying to be a little different in terms of musical direction at times, which contributed to making it more interesting. Unfortunately, with IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL it was more of the same from the Stones, minus the magic ingredients.

I often wonder how much different the album would have sounded with Jimmy Miller behind the controls?

Quote
sonomastone

Quote
carlorossi

Quote
24FPS
The rotten icing on the cake was Love You Live. There was a big demand for a live album and what we got was the first incarnation of the Vegas Stones (excepting the El Mocambo Side).

I alwways thought that '75 and '76 and LYL were the anti-Vegas Stones. VERY loose, sloppy and coked out. More so than any tour before. I think I know what you mean by 'first incarnation', but I don't think that these years qualify. Vegas Stones came upon us quickly and without warning, imo.

yes, in my opinion, love you live is horrible in an entirely different way than the Vegas act

Quote
Ket
Their worst album of the 70's, I thought Black and Blue was much better.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think BAB was a step in the right direction after two so so albums.

Yes, there are only 8 songs on the album. Then again, some of them are quite long. I don't agree on Keith being a spent force as a song writer, though. MM, HS, HOF, FTC, CM are all great, imo.

But the most important thing with BAB is the fantastic production. GHS and IORR had a muddy (GHS) and echoish, wollen sound (IORR) and were both both mixed poorly. BAB was sonically, and still is today, one of the best-sounding Stones albums ever.

+ the variety of black music-styles on this album is really showing the versatility of the Stones and the band's roots, imo.

I don't see any clunkers on BAB. I even love Cherry Oh Baby, because of it's naive approach, and it's quite charming that they are trying to play reggae - still sounding like a rock'n'roll band

IMO, the two best songs on GHS (Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music) don't hold up to the two best ones on BAB (Memory Motel and Hand Of Fate).

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I have never understood the dislike for "If u really want 2 b my friend". IMO a great soul ballad. Love the bridge especially; and the ending.
Like Edward T says - I find the rockers e.g. "If you cant rock me" WAY more forced and hollow sounding.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I have never understood the dislike for "If u really want 2 b my friend". IMO a great soul ballad. Love the bridge especially; and the ending.
Like Edward T says - I find the rockers e.g. "If you cant rock me" WAY more forced and hollow sounding.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think BAB was a step in the right direction after two so so albums.

Yes, there are only 8 songs on the album. Then again, some of them are quite long. I don't agree on Keith being a spent force as a song writer, though. MM, HS, HOF, FTC, CM are all great, imo.

But the most important thing with BAB is the fantastic production. GHS and IORR had a muddy (GHS) and echoish, wollen sound (IORR) and were both both mixed poorly. BAB was sonically, and still is today, one of the best-sounding Stones albums ever.

+ the variety of black music-styles on this album is really showing the versatility of the Stones and the band's roots, imo.

I don't see any clunkers on BAB. I even love Cherry Oh Baby, because of it's naive approach, and it's quite charming that they are trying to play reggae - still sounding like a rock'n'roll band

IMO, the two best songs on GHS (Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music) don't hold up to the two best ones on BAB (Memory Motel and Hand Of Fate).

Just have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think there's anything "fantastic" about the production. At least GHS (whether you like it or not) had a definitive mood and vibe. B&B has too many weak songs, and when you factor in that Cherry was a cover, Melody really Billy Preston, and Hey Negrita really Ron Wood ("inspired by") there are actually only five new Jagger/Richards songs, pretty good evidence of spent force in my view. This record has songs that sound ok in form, like Crazy Mama and Fool To Cry, but are really lacking in imagination. Even with Memory Motel, there's less than meets the eye compared to ballads like Wild Horses or Coming Down Again. Hand Of Fate and Negrita are nice, and Hot Stuff is a cool novelty.

Quote
sonomastone
Not a single track on there is better than any given song on BB, LIB, SF, or EOMS.

Quote
GravityBoy

Quote
sonomastone
Not a single track on there is better than any given song on BB, LIB, SF, or EOMS.

There's a couple or three that stand up.

Hand of fate - Excellent
Hey Negrita - Very good
Memory Motel - Good
Crazy Momma - Nearly good
Hot stuff - just a riff
Melody - Nope
Fool to Cry - Cheese
Cherry Oh Baby - how did this ever make the album?

Quote
71Tele

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think BAB was a step in the right direction after two so so albums.

Yes, there are only 8 songs on the album. Then again, some of them are quite long. I don't agree on Keith being a spent force as a song writer, though. MM, HS, HOF, FTC, CM are all great, imo.

But the most important thing with BAB is the fantastic production. GHS and IORR had a muddy (GHS) and echoish, wollen sound (IORR) and were both both mixed poorly. BAB was sonically, and still is today, one of the best-sounding Stones albums ever.

+ the variety of black music-styles on this album is really showing the versatility of the Stones and the band's roots, imo.

I don't see any clunkers on BAB. I even love Cherry Oh Baby, because of it's naive approach, and it's quite charming that they are trying to play reggae - still sounding like a rock'n'roll band

IMO, the two best songs on GHS (Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music) don't hold up to the two best ones on BAB (Memory Motel and Hand Of Fate).

Just have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think there's anything "fantastic" about the production. At least GHS (whether you like it or not) had a definitive mood and vibe. B&B has too many weak songs, and when you factor in that Cherry was a cover, Melody really Billy Preston, and Hey Negrita really Ron Wood ("inspired by") there are actually only five new Jagger/Richards songs, pretty good evidence of spent force in my view. This record has songs that sound ok in form, like Crazy Mama and Fool To Cry, but are really lacking in imagination. Even with Memory Motel, there's less than meets the eye compared to ballads like Wild Horses or Coming Down Again. Hand Of Fate and Negrita are nice, and Hot Stuff is a cool novelty.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think BAB was a step in the right direction after two so so albums.

Yes, there are only 8 songs on the album. Then again, some of them are quite long. I don't agree on Keith being a spent force as a song writer, though. MM, HS, HOF, FTC, CM are all great, imo.

But the most important thing with BAB is the fantastic production. GHS and IORR had a muddy (GHS) and echoish, wollen sound (IORR) and were both both mixed poorly. BAB was sonically, and still is today, one of the best-sounding Stones albums ever.

+ the variety of black music-styles on this album is really showing the versatility of the Stones and the band's roots, imo.

I don't see any clunkers on BAB. I even love Cherry Oh Baby, because of it's naive approach, and it's quite charming that they are trying to play reggae - still sounding like a rock'n'roll band

IMO, the two best songs on GHS (Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music) don't hold up to the two best ones on BAB (Memory Motel and Hand Of Fate).

Quote
Big Al
I think '74-75 was a bit of a naff period for all concerned, no? 'Glam' and the likes of Slade, T.Rex and Ziggy-era Bowie had faded and 'punk' was still to truely find it's way. Who was big in 74-75? Pink Floyd? Yes? Zzzz...

Quote
leteyer

Quote
Big Al
I think '74-75 was a bit of a naff period for all concerned, no? 'Glam' and the likes of Slade, T.Rex and Ziggy-era Bowie had faded and 'punk' was still to truely find it's way. Who was big in 74-75? Pink Floyd? Yes? Zzzz...

Well there was also a little known band called Led Zeppelin that put out a so, so double album called Physical Graffiti. Brilliant.

In 1975 I got to see the Stones, Zep, Floyd, Genesis, and a bunch of other groups...Not a bad year in my book.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Black And Blue has a musical consistency, despite being so versatile in genres, that both of the two other albums desperately lack, imo.

You could say that the laid back, murky vibe on GHS is there - but it really isn't on songs like Star Star, Angie, Silver Train and Hide Your Love - that's 4 out of 10 songs.

I see songs like Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music as a natural musical progression for the Stones after Exile, though - both are brilliiant, and in different ways experimental.

Quote
Edward Twining
IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL is perhaps the first Stones album where the stones-by-numbers approach first came into play on a large scale. In other words the Stones were recording typical sounding Stones songs (many of the rocking variety) but without any real sense of conviction or inspiration behind their creation. 'If You Can't Rock Me', the cover 'Ain't Too Proud To Beg', 'Dance Little Sister' and even the title track, for me are really short term pleasures, where if you scratch the surface, what lies beneath is pretty hollow. That's not to say they aren't enjoyable to a degree, because they are rather spightly, and in a sense, perhaps, more familiar stylistically to the average Stones fan, than some of those more meandering and melancholly offerings on, say, GOATS HEAD SOUP, for example, but unfortunately over repeated listens these songs don't stand up nearly so well.

Even the changes of pace songs like the ballads 'Till The Next Goodbye', 'If You Really Want To Be My Friend' and to a point 'Time Waits For No One', are somehow lacking, and, perhaps, also quite hollow. 'Fingerprint File' doesn't impress me either, as much as its funky musical direction suggests it might. 'Time Waits For No One' however, works well in terms of it being Mick Taylor's swansong, in retrospect, Although it isn't somehow as well rounded in terms of its construction and production as the tracks on the Stones more higly regarded albums, musically Nicky Hopkins and Mick Taylor cook up something rather transcendant, and haunting. 'Luxury' is perhaps the other highlight for me. I just love Jagger's attempts at a Jamaican accent in this. In a sense 'Luxury' also acted as a signpost to the much better BLACK AND BLUE within its slight reggae influenced sound.

IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL for me is the weakest Stones album of the seventies. If GOATS HEAD SOUP hinted at times that the Stones were in decline, with IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL, the Stones decline is pretty full scale throughout. The Stones were very much on autopilot. I still enjoy listening to the album, however, although it's always a toss up for me, to which is the weaker album between this and EMOTIONAL RESCUE. I have come to the conclusion that i like EMOTIONAL RESCUE more simply because the Stones were trying to be a little different in terms of musical direction at times, which contributed to making it more interesting. Unfortunately, with IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL it was more of the same from the Stones, minus the magic ingredients.

I often wonder how much different the album would have sounded with Jimmy Miller behind the controls?

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
71Tele

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think BAB was a step in the right direction after two so so albums.

Yes, there are only 8 songs on the album. Then again, some of them are quite long. I don't agree on Keith being a spent force as a song writer, though. MM, HS, HOF, FTC, CM are all great, imo.

But the most important thing with BAB is the fantastic production. GHS and IORR had a muddy (GHS) and echoish, wollen sound (IORR) and were both both mixed poorly. BAB was sonically, and still is today, one of the best-sounding Stones albums ever.

+ the variety of black music-styles on this album is really showing the versatility of the Stones and the band's roots, imo.

I don't see any clunkers on BAB. I even love Cherry Oh Baby, because of it's naive approach, and it's quite charming that they are trying to play reggae - still sounding like a rock'n'roll band

IMO, the two best songs on GHS (Coming Down Again and Can You Hear The Music) don't hold up to the two best ones on BAB (Memory Motel and Hand Of Fate).

Just have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think there's anything "fantastic" about the production. At least GHS (whether you like it or not) had a definitive mood and vibe. B&B has too many weak songs, and when you factor in that Cherry was a cover, Melody really Billy Preston, and Hey Negrita really Ron Wood ("inspired by") there are actually only five new Jagger/Richards songs, pretty good evidence of spent force in my view. This record has songs that sound ok in form, like Crazy Mama and Fool To Cry, but are really lacking in imagination. Even with Memory Motel, there's less than meets the eye compared to ballads like Wild Horses or Coming Down Again. Hand Of Fate and Negrita are nice, and Hot Stuff is a cool novelty.

Well, that's ok. But keep in mind that they waited with stuff like Worried About You and Slave - both songs that show that they still were writing top stuff, imo.