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Thrylan
I agree with DP.....She's so Cold was strong enough to hook me, sell the entire catalogue to me, and a handful of concert tix to boot. As for the tempos, I'll take the 78'-82' high energy, fast versions of all the songs over what we've been presented since B2B. 19th Nervous Breakdown and Its All Over Now will cease to exist if they get any slower. All Down the Line sounds a hell of a lot better with sweat flying, than it does loping around with plenty of room for Chuck to noodle.

all of which begs the question of why on earth don't they come to their senses and recognize their remanining strengths at the stage are the slower numbers? jagger refuses to do more than one ballad per show. if you look over their career, you'll easily find that a fairly high percentage of their most recognized songs are BALLADS! you think any of this ageing audience would have any serious complaints if they filled out a setlist with maybe 30 minutes worth of sitdown, acoustic numbers?

jagger and his peter pan complex are getting in the way of common sense....

As much as I think ballads can be show-killers, Clapton opens with two acoustic numbers, and does his sit down RJ set, and he rocked recently in Pittsburgh. Don't play songs you can't play,(Keith, this includes the solo on SFTD.)

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Main Offender came before WS. At the same time as Slide On This, if memory serves...

I seem to remember that Mick, conscious that he had made a brilliant solo album, took care that it should not impair MAIN OFFENDER's possiblities and waited for some time to release WANDERING SPIRIT.

He waited until exactly one week after Macca released Off the Ground, lol

[thepowergoats.com]

Mick is brilliant! And Ronnies solo is great! Love it.

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DandelionPowderman
A band without its muse, that writes Down In The Hole, Emotional Rescue, All About You and She's So Cold really has a better potential than most bands

Dandelion, 'began to lose their muse' is what i actually wrote. The Stones were still recording some worthwhile material, and EMOTIONAL RESCUE, for me is more interesting than the Stones previous low point IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL, because i find some of its mild experimentation quite interesting (and especially the title track), whereas IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL found the Stones overwhelmingly in a going-through-the-motions mode. Yes, 'Down In The Hole', 'Emotional Rescue', All About You' and 'She's So Cold', certainly possess some charm, and for me those first three songs may actually be classics of a sort. I love the way Jagger gives 'Down In The Hole' a contemporary edge, where his raw vocal really does come up trumps. I think the political references ('american zone' etc) really does place a different angle on the traditional blues style song. 'All About You' of course is great too in my opinion, with Keith beginning his run of crooning songs, of which i feel 'All About You' may be arguably about the best. 'She's So Cold' doesn't stand up so well for me overall as a song, although the riff is something i believe the Stones would be prepared to die for today, such is the greatness of their later decline. Actually, i really like 'Indian Girl' too, with its political angle relating to the conflicts in South America. Unlike some fans, i actually find 'Indian Girl' rather touching and really quite sincere in a way that is vocally quite rare for Jagger. That's perhaps largely due to the fact that he's recounting some real events, which were taking place at the time.

However, EMOTIONAL RESCUE as a whole, doesn't impress as we had become accustomed to with the Stones, when compared to many of their previous efforts. 'Summer Romance', Let Me Go' and 'Send It To Me' are some of the least inspiring songs, up to that point, from the Stones, in my opinion. However, hindsight has played an important role, in reaffirming what the Stones still had in their grasp, too, even in those weaker moments, which has now sadly long gone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-06-18 21:45 by Edward Twining.

True, but save SF and Exile, every album has had tracks that didn't age well. GHS has several, IORR has a couple. Personally I don't think Lies off of SG has aged well. Rare are the aforementioned albums that are "timeless." BB and LIB are pretty close, but..... Satanic Majesty is very dated and came before the "golden age", so there is an ebb and flow.

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Thrylan
... Satanic Majesty is very dated and came before the "golden age"...

Hmm, I thought you were one of the enlightened people.

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His Majesty

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Thrylan
... Satanic Majesty is very dated and came before the "golden age"...

Hmm, I thought you were one of the enlightened people.

I am.

Their Satanic is very dear to me and still one of the most interesting studio albums the Stones have made.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty

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Thrylan
... Satanic Majesty is very dated and came before the "golden age"...

Hmm, I thought you were one of the enlightened people.

I am.

Their Satanic is very dear to me and still one of the most interesting studio albums the Stones have made.

i concur. but, try as i may, i was never able to make it all the way thru all of the 8 discs of studio instrumental outs. there is a limit this stuff....

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kleermaker

I am.

Their Satanic is very dear to me and still one of the most interesting studio albums the Stones have made.

Ok, we love you!

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StonesTod


i concur. but, try as i may, i was never able to make it all the way thru all of the 8 discs of studio instrumental outs. there is a limit this stuff....

Hmm, how about 7 discs?

The last disc is from 1968, as are the Child Of The Moon outtakes.

It has its place. Very "Beatles derivative"....it's not an "easy listen" like Sgt. Pepper, its a little exhausting. It's highs are stone gems though. Citadel,2000 light years, 2000 man.....great largely forgotten stuff.

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His Majesty

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StonesTod


i concur. but, try as i may, i was never able to make it all the way thru all of the 8 discs of studio instrumental outs. there is a limit this stuff....

Hmm, how about 7 discs?

The last disc is from 1968, as are the Child Of The Moon outtakes.

as the saying goes, you heard one child of the moon outtake, you heard 'em all...

There really isn't that much in the way of Beatle-esque stuff on it, it's more in line with Piper At The Gates Of Dawn. A shared "Dolls house darkness" feeling.

Close listening to the outtakes of She's A Rainbow reveal that along with Mick, Paul McCartney plays percussion on it.

A bit before my time, I have trouble with too much psychedelia, so I tend to lump it together. You are right though, it does owe more to Piper. I am the same with the Dead......I can only take so much Dark Star or Drums before I need a "song."

BTW, how did they get Mick to be that "dark?"

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Thrylan
BTW, how did they get Mick to be that "dark?"

LSD.

Lol...scared himself.

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jamesfdouglas

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman
Main Offender came before WS. At the same time as Slide On This, if memory serves...

I seem to remember that Mick, conscious that he had made a brilliant solo album, took care that it should not impair MAIN OFFENDER's possiblities and waited for some time to release WANDERING SPIRIT.

He waited until exactly one week after Macca released Off the Ground, lol

A comparative Rolling Stone review of both albums

By Parke Puterbaugh
February 18, 1993
In addition to copiloting the greatest bands in rock & roll history, Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger have something else in common: Both have watched their solo careers sputter. McCartney hasn't placed an album or single at the top of the charts in nearly a decade, and only one album, an "unplugged" MTV concert, has broken the Top Twenty. Jagger waited until 1985 to test the solo waters and has thus far found them icy. His last album, Primitive Cool (1987), stalled at Number Forty-one, while its would-be anthem "Let's Work" logged one lonely week at the tail end of the Top Forty.

No acts will ever rule the rock realm so completely for so long as the Beatles and the Stones. Times have changed; attention spans have shortened, owing to video overexposure (resulting in careers with the trajectory of a Roman candle), rigid radio formats, the corporate trivialization of rock's mission and the sheer accumulated mass of music, old and new, being thrust at listeners. These days the sales go to the likes of Michael Bolton, Garth Brooks, Boyz II Men and Kris Kross, while living legends like McCartney, Jagger, Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and arguably even Bruce Springsteen are consigned to an elder rockers' Valhalla, where they bask in critical favor and do good tour business while watching their new work hobble and fall off the charts.

So why suffer the ignominy of being outsold by artists of far less luster? Why not stay home counting royalties and tending investments? For both Jagger and McCartney, pride and ego figure in, certainly; but there's also the matter of creative viability. There's plenty of ambition, not to mention craft, to be found on both Wandering Spirit and Off the Ground. McCartney, fresh from dabbling in light classical with his Liverpool Oratorio, imparts a mock-orchestral grandeur to his pop sensibility on Off the Ground. While occasionally slow-moving (McCartney could use a boot from an aggressive producer), Off the Ground contains some fine songs and sustains a guardedly optimistic mood that conveys a faith in the future. Jagger manages to paint in the primary hues of an inveterate rock animal on Wandering Spirit while decorating the margins with some left-field material that recalls the fervid eclecticism of the Between the Buttons-era Stones. If Wandering Spirit gets the nod over Off the Ground, it's because Jagger sounds livelier and more welded to the present than McCartney.

The differences between the two can be illustrated by their lyrics. Whereas McCartney sings, "I feel love for you now" in "Winedark Open Sea," Jagger growls, "I don't ever wanna see your picture again" in "Don't Tear Me Up." McCartney is a family man whose idealism springs from his commitments; Jagger remains a realist and, true to the title, a wandering spirit whose blood runs hot. Wandering Spirit rises to a rousing boil, while Off the Ground maintains a mannerly simmer. They're about as different as day and night, and as it was in the early days, when people were either Beatles fans or Stones fans, you'll probably prefer one to the exclusion of the other.

Poking their heads above the manicured surface of McCartney's song cycle are "Hope of Deliverance" and "Peace in the Neighbourhood." The first is one of those perfect little tunes McCartney plucks from his songwriter's subconscious like a pearl from a shell. Deceptively wispy, effortlessly catchy, it finds McCartney breezily proffering a positive attitude toward the days ahead: "When it will be right, I don't know/What it will be like, I don't know/We live in hope of deliverance from the darkness that surrounds us." "Peace" is a cheerful, dreamlike vision of a halcyon world; its sunny, casually funky groove recalls odes to brotherhood by the likes of Sly and the Family Stone and War.

Elvis Costello rejoins McCartney as a songwriting collaborator on two numbers: "Mistress and Maid," in which fanciful flourishes provide a Sgt. Pepper-style spin, and "The Lovers That Never Were," a gorgeous, lushly arranged vocal showcase also taken at a swaying waltz tempo. McCartney falters when he tries to rock out on "Looking for Changes," a literal-minded animal-rights broadside, and "Biker Like an Icon," a quixotic character study. At this juncture, he doesn't seem able to rock with authority, and he under-mines his effort by applying a sugary glaze, such as the inappropriately tame chorus to "Biker Like an Icon." A clutch of longish songs — "Winedark Open Sea," "C'mon People," "I Owe It All to You," "Golden Earth Girl" — seems calculated to cast an ambient stargazing spell, and McCartney closes the album with an Aquarian Age reminder to remain "cosmically conscious." While the sentiments are commendable and the music pleasurable, Off the Ground is a tad undercooked — a souffle that doesn't quite rise to the grand heights its creator envisioned.

Jagger, on the other hand, rocks with a willful, desperate abandon on Wandering Spirit, the most purposeful and assured of his three solo discs. With Rick Rubin coproducing, the album has a live, knife edge feel to it, from Jagger's counting off the bristling opening cut, "Wired All Night," on through to the reckless declaration of independence of the title track. While Wandering Spirit possesses a rock-solid backbone that will please Stones fans, Jagger adroitly tosses a few curves — a pure-country foray, some hard-hitting urban funk, a courtly overlay of harpsichord and Mellotron — to keep things interesting. And though not everything works — particularly problematic are "Handsome Molly," a dire foray into Celtic folk, and a starchy retread of Bill Withers's "Use Me" — Jagger communicates both laser-focused directness and far ranging versatility.

Jagger, who will turn fifty this year, seems determined to cede nothing to age, dismissing the idea of mellowing out as anathema: "I'm as hard as a brick/I hope I never go limp," he rages from the center of the cyclonic fury of "Wired All Night." His brashness and swagger are well intact on numbers like "Put Me in the Trash" and the doggedly relentless cover of James Brown's "Think." The first single, "Sweet Thing," finds him applying a "Fool to Cry" falsetto to a danceable, "Miss You"-style track. On "Out of Focus," a churchy piano-vocal intro segues into reggae-accented gospel-funk as Jagger deals squarely with a harsh comeuppance that tempts with autobiographical overtones: "Maybe I lied a little bit too much.... I saw the future just shatter like glass." "Don't Tear Me Up" is another sadder-but-wiser reflection bolstered by echoes of "You Can't Always Get What You Want." The title song spells out his rootless dilemma with forcible resolve: "Yes, I am a restless soul/There's no place that I can call my home," he sings as the band ensnares him in a tight jump blues.

But Jagger isn't content to let matters rest there. From this defiant perch he reveals the cracks in a vulnerable façade with three remarkable songs near the album's end. "My cards are on the table/You can get up and walk away/Or stay," he importunes in the country-flavored ballad "Hang On to Me Tonight." Tart Memphis-soul guitar and a solid backbeat buoy Jagger's bittersweet plaint in "I've Been Lonely for So Long." "Angel in My Heart" closes this trilogy with a heartbreaking plea — "Stay with me till night turns to day/Let me in your dreams" — set to an exquisite melody reminiscent of "Lady Jane." Wandering Spirit, then, illuminates the varied aspects of a complex personality. But best of all, it rocks like a bitch



Read more: [www.rollingstone.com]
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Some more "risk-free" numbers ><

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DandelionPowderman
Some more "risk-free" numbers ><

It's not a risk at all playing these songs! Just shows how involved (MJ) they are; 2000 just absolutely fits the whole atmosphere of the festival and because of that it's a very very good choice to play it. They just rehearsed it twice so maybe a little risk there but...it's the choice to play it that really does it.
Same goes for GG Maybe that was her name? If you change Factory Girl into that you know you got them in your pocket: brilliant move by MJ and so lovely to have the idea...that's what it's all about; having the idea, writing it and doing it. That's the energy and dynamics I like so much about this guy. He still got it! That gave me tears of pure joy...great fun!

Brilliant moves, indeed. 2000 LYFH WAS a risk performance-wise (and that is what this thread is about), though.

I thought they did great, with both.

Did Mick have a tele-prompter for Glastonbury girl and if so where was it?

It must have been difficult not to sing "waitin' for a factory Girl".

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GravityBoy
Did Mick have a tele-prompter for Glastonbury girl and if so where was it?

It must have been difficult not to sing "waitin' for a factory Girl".

It must have been more difficult to acknowledge that she took off with Primal Scream?

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DandelionPowderman
Some more "risk-free" numbers ><

Some have spoken about risk-free live playing, yes.

I for one have wished both to acknowledge their latest three studio albums as better in my evaluation than for instance the two that precede them, and oppose to "the Las Vegas Era" tag that are prevailing in many quarters on IORR. I have also myself mentionned that the band has taken some risks also after 1989 during their "new professionalism".

On the other hand, I have wanted (and needed) to introduce an understanding of a control element and a premeditated coordination for their concerts that not always make it, but tend over longer time, certainly with inspired occasions and moments as exceptions, to make repeatedly live played songs to a pattern, then to a routine, and, besides, more remaining on the surface of the songs, despite their good feeling and taste and despite the joy of concerts.

I have to repeat that stance when you make the dividing point "taking risk" or not. Also, for that understanding is my basis for opposing "the Las Vegas Era" tag. Besides, I wish for renewed development and change, if possible, even with a so long existing band, and so late in their career. They have that ability in them.

I guess playing "You Got Me Rocking" in that 121212 concert can be see meeting the criteria made in this thread. They had only two numbers and they decided to play this number that is no way familiar to their non-hardcore fans. And as result, almost nobody seemed to happy... (if we follow the Jaggerian maxim that no-war horse song never work to non-die-hard fans).

A kind of cool thing to do.

- Doxa

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Doxa
I guess playing "You Got Me Rocking" in that 121212 concert can be see meeting the criteria made in this thread. They had only two numbers and they decided to play this number that is no way familiar to their non-hardcore fans. And as result, almost nobody seemed to happy... (if we follow the Jaggerian maxim that no-war horse song never work to non-die-hard fans).

A kind of cool thing to do.

- Doxa

Interesting. I haven't heard that from anyone who attended the show? The ones I've talked to thought the Stones did a great job.

Or do you mean among us IORRians who weren't there?

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
I guess playing "You Got Me Rocking" in that 121212 concert can be see meeting the criteria made in this thread. They had only two numbers and they decided to play this number that is no way familiar to their non-hardcore fans. And as result, almost nobody seemed to happy... (if we follow the Jaggerian maxim that no-war horse song never work to non-die-hard fans).

A kind of cool thing to do.

- Doxa

Interesting. I haven't heard that from anyone who attended the show? The ones I've talked to thought the Stones did a great job.

Or do you mean among us IORRians who weren't there?

I am sure most of the people who were there it was a fine number - but I'm talking about the millions who saw it through telly, and who potentially were PPV show customers (remember the connection). A safer choice for them would have been "Start Me Up" or something like that. Even the great Glasto gig seemed to cause some negative comments; the opening with "Miss You", "Rambler", and "2000" might have been too much for people who want to hear classics. I think that it is great that Jagger didn't take the easy or safe route at 121212.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
I guess playing "You Got Me Rocking" in that 121212 concert can be see meeting the criteria made in this thread. They had only two numbers and they decided to play this number that is no way familiar to their non-hardcore fans. And as result, almost nobody seemed to happy... (if we follow the Jaggerian maxim that no-war horse song never work to non-die-hard fans).

A kind of cool thing to do.

- Doxa

Interesting. I haven't heard that from anyone who attended the show? The ones I've talked to thought the Stones did a great job.

Or do you mean among us IORRians who weren't there?

I am sure most of the people who were there it was a fine number - but I'm talking about the millions who saw it through telly, and who potentially were PPV show customers (remember the connection). A safer choice for them would have been "Start Me Up" or something like that. Even the great Glasto gig seemed to cause some negative comments; the opening with "Miss You", "Rambler", and "2000" might have been too much for people who want to hear classics. I think that it is great that Jagger didn't take the easy or safe route at 121212.

- Doxa

Didn't he? Really? "You Got Me Rocking" may not be like Start Me Up or any other "warhorse", but its simple, stadium-friendly "hey, hey.." singalong formula does not make it a "risky" choice either.

It's not a well-known "classic", but it's a catchy, instantly recognizable, crowdpleasing little singalong tune which includes all those Rolling Stones sound cliches and trademarks, so it's as safe as it can get.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-05 17:35 by alimente.

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Thrylan
True, but save SF and Exile, every album has had tracks that didn't age well. GHS has several, IORR has a couple. Personally I don't think Lies off of SG has aged well. Rare are the aforementioned albums that are "timeless." BB and LIB are pretty close, but..... Satanic Majesty is very dated and came before the "golden age", so there is an ebb and flow.

That's funny because Lies is one of the tracks I like most on SG.

What do you think on GHS hasn't aged well?

TSMR is awful in general but has some stellar tracks on it. 2000 Light Years will never get old, it's beyond brilliant. 2000 Man is excellent. She's A Rainbow, of course... Citadel is a track that should have gotten attention (played; it's gotten the same attention that Jigsaw Puzzle has gotten) that, amazingly, they've ignored.

Would have made a great EP.

However, I wouldn't say it's aged at all - it still sounds exactly like 1967, and the Beatles thing will always be there.