Tell Me :
Talk
Mathijs makes things up all the time. Why anybody listened to him is beyond me.
Actually, it seems that he is basing his conclusions on some article from the Guardian that a Google search turned up. There are so many "internet doctors" out there it's scary. Wear plugs if you are close to speakers or if you are regularly eexposed to high noise levels. If you find yourself without plugs and youy are standing in front of the speakers, take some tissue, wet it, and plug the canal. The sound will be muffled, but that's better than riskng damage. And, for goodness sakes, turn down the sound if you use headphones (especially in-ear phones).
You can get some Etymotic clones on Amazon UK, they're called ACS but last I checked they only came in white (i.e. HUGE size, I tried mine again today, useless) here is their web page : [www.acscustom.com]
And yes O2/25th the sound was perfect, throughout based on talking about it with friends, from the front of the pit (second row next to Mick) to the 4th level. I guess the O2 was specifically designed with music in mind ;-)
This is bad advice as hearing damage can happen at volumes as low as 90db over a 2 hour period
[www.google.com]
The mean average at rock concerts is 100db which means a safe exposure period is 15 minutes without hearing protection.
Anyone who goes to Rock concerts without wearing hearing protection is asking for loss of hearing and possibly tinnituslater in life
100% spot on Alfonz. I work for an Audio/Video company and we have some very smart people who confirm what you posted above. You won't go deaf from one concert experience but you damamge your hearing a little everytime you go to a concert which is over 100dBA volume level without hearing protection.
In fact the EU has recently enacted safety laws which will force portable music player (Ipods) and headphone Mfg to design their products to limit the output well below 100dBA
i'll give you some advice. your ears were ringing, you didn't escape damage. whenever they ring damage has occured
I appreciate that...i just mean that since then, my ears feel fine in daily terms and i have not been exposed to loud volume or experienced any problems since for which i count myself very lucky... so far...thanks for the advice everyone.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
RockinJive
()
Date: May 27, 2013 21:58
Quote
owlbyniteQuote
MathijsQuote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,
Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.
At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.
Mathijs
sorry not true take it up with my surgeons
Mathijs makes things up all the time. Why anybody listened to him is beyond me.
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: May 27, 2013 22:45
Quote
RockinJiveQuote
owlbyniteQuote
MathijsQuote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,
Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.
At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.
Mathijs
sorry not true take it up with my surgeons
Mathijs makes things up all the time. Why anybody listened to him is beyond me.
Actually, it seems that he is basing his conclusions on some article from the Guardian that a Google search turned up. There are so many "internet doctors" out there it's scary. Wear plugs if you are close to speakers or if you are regularly eexposed to high noise levels. If you find yourself without plugs and youy are standing in front of the speakers, take some tissue, wet it, and plug the canal. The sound will be muffled, but that's better than riskng damage. And, for goodness sakes, turn down the sound if you use headphones (especially in-ear phones).
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: May 27, 2013 22:53
Quote
Grison
Thanks for this interesting threat. In the five concerts we saw (Oakland, S.Jose, Vegas and 2 Anaheim all in the pit front row I would say the worst was very left to Ronnie's side. My wife had a Problem after S. Jose and in Vegas a Body Guard in front of us gave her hear plugs as she couldn't stand the loudness. However in Anaheim closer to Mick's Amps it was much much better and the Sound was clearer. Being in the back of the pit you did not have the noise volume (at least in London) like in the front.
I will see if we can get such earplugs you showing for the Shows we will attend.
You can get some Etymotic clones on Amazon UK, they're called ACS but last I checked they only came in white (i.e. HUGE size, I tried mine again today, useless) here is their web page : [www.acscustom.com]
And yes O2/25th the sound was perfect, throughout based on talking about it with friends, from the front of the pit (second row next to Mick) to the 4th level. I guess the O2 was specifically designed with music in mind ;-)
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
oldschool
()
Date: May 28, 2013 02:10
Quote
MathijsQuote
owlbynite
But still loud enough to cause further damage to impaired hearing,
Hearing damage only occurs at extremely high levels which are not achieved at any concert, or prolonged exposure to high levels, whereby prolonged exposure is hours per day over months or even years.
At today's concer volume levels there is no danger of hearing damage unless you put your head inside the Pa's speaker cabinet.
Mathijs
This is bad advice as hearing damage can happen at volumes as low as 90db over a 2 hour period
[www.google.com]
The mean average at rock concerts is 100db which means a safe exposure period is 15 minutes without hearing protection.
Anyone who goes to Rock concerts without wearing hearing protection is asking for loss of hearing and possibly tinnituslater in life
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
oldschool
()
Date: May 28, 2013 02:26
Quote
Alfonz
Mathijs ... maybe you have a different definition of hearing damage/loss? The ringing in ears after a concert, even if it goes away, IS permanent hearing damage. Sorry, but I don't think you should keep stating that damage only occurs from extended exposure. I know from personal experience that you can suffer permanent hearing damage from a single concert.
Also, as far as your 103 dB level ... I'm not sure how strictly this is regulated, nor if it is truly that safe a level. Also, is the 103 dB over 15 minutes an average, or a max threshold? I've been to many, many concerts where I take my earplugs out and I would say the sound levels are approaching the "painful" category (e.g. 120dB ). Anyway, I found this chart below from google (http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-dose.html). I'm not sure if this is some kind of "official audiologist" chart, but it at least looks like a good framework and suggests it is based on a generally accepted standard formula.
Maximum Recommended Noise Dose Exposure Levels
Noise Level (dBA) ...... Maximum Exposure Time per 24 Hours
85 ...... 8 hours
88 ...... 4 hours
91 ...... 2 hours
94 ...... 1 hour
97 ...... 30 minutes
100 ...... 15 minutes
103 ...... 7.5 minutes
106 ...... 3.7 minutes
109 ...... 112 seconds
112 ...... 56 seconds
115 ...... 28 seconds
118 ...... 14 seconds
121 ...... 7 seconds
124 ...... 3 seconds
127 ...... 1 second
130–140 ...... less than 1 second
140 ...... NO EXPOSURE
This chart seems to be based on a daily exposure, and granted we aren't really talking about going to a concert every single day. Regardless, I can almost guarantee that at reasonable distance from the speaker cabinets, most concerts are averaging over the 90-95 dB range. And will definitely have moments when the sound cranks up into the 110-120 dB range, even higher. You listen to that for an hour or so, your ears will ring, and you have suffered permanent damage. The ringing might subside, but your ears have still been permanently damaged. It is obviously true that the extended exposure can bring this damage home to roost in some noticeable form of permanent damage (e.g. tinnitus), but one loud concert can still damage your hearing permanently in some way.
On another note, you can even get hearing damage from the crowd screaming. If you have tens of thousands of people screaming, the dB levels can actually rise above what the band has been playing at.
100% spot on Alfonz. I work for an Audio/Video company and we have some very smart people who confirm what you posted above. You won't go deaf from one concert experience but you damamge your hearing a little everytime you go to a concert which is over 100dBA volume level without hearing protection.
In fact the EU has recently enacted safety laws which will force portable music player (Ipods) and headphone Mfg to design their products to limit the output well below 100dBA
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: May 28, 2013 02:43
A few years ago a huge firecracker exploded in my hand (stupid me) my hand healed in a few weeks but my right ear took months to recover from ringing (although the sound that I heard was more of a whiz) especially when you try to go to sleep (I hear the same noise now but that's my computer)
__________________________
__________________________
ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
johnnythunders
()
Date: July 15, 2013 15:14
Just before Friday nights Ray Davies/Elvis Costello gig (great, by the way) I realised I had lost my extremely expensive earplugs, probably on the way home after HP1.
After a bit of panic I found these guys:
www.hearingprotection.co.uk
They sell mainly online but have a small shop in London off the Caledonian Road, part of the John Henry rehearsal complex and run by the charming Sam. A mere £14 was enough for a pair of ER-20s which fit unobtrusively in the ear and contain diaphragms that deliver a -19 dB attenuation in sound.
I wore them to HP2 and they delivered a better sound than my old plugs which had a list price of at least ten times more. I heard everything perfectly, and no ringing in my ears the next day(s).
If you have only ever used foam plugs PLEASE give these a go. As an (ex?) tinnitus sufferer I cannot stress enough the importance of looking after your ears.
After a bit of panic I found these guys:
www.hearingprotection.co.uk
They sell mainly online but have a small shop in London off the Caledonian Road, part of the John Henry rehearsal complex and run by the charming Sam. A mere £14 was enough for a pair of ER-20s which fit unobtrusively in the ear and contain diaphragms that deliver a -19 dB attenuation in sound.
I wore them to HP2 and they delivered a better sound than my old plugs which had a list price of at least ten times more. I heard everything perfectly, and no ringing in my ears the next day(s).
If you have only ever used foam plugs PLEASE give these a go. As an (ex?) tinnitus sufferer I cannot stress enough the importance of looking after your ears.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
shattered
()
Date: July 16, 2013 01:24
Talk to anyone in aviation who works around running engines and they will agree.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
lettingitbleed
()
Date: July 16, 2013 02:04
Grandpa alert!!
"if it's too loud, you're too old"
"if it's too loud, you're too old"
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: July 16, 2013 02:34
well, at least your user name is consistent with your outlook.Quote
lettingitbleed
Grandpa alert!!
"if it's too loud, you're too old"
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: July 16, 2013 02:54
Bad luck on losing the expensive ones you had at HP1, I had my blue ones (standard size, white are the large size) again at HP2 but didn't use them for the Stones (they do muffle a bit) and my ears were ok, they've been ear savers a few times though and I wish I'd had them at the Trabendo.
We'd discussed them here : [www.iorr.org]
There seems to be a new version without the "tube", the ACS Pacato [www.acscustom.com]
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-16 02:56 by gotdablouse.
We'd discussed them here : [www.iorr.org]
There seems to be a new version without the "tube", the ACS Pacato [www.acscustom.com]
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-07-16 02:56 by gotdablouse.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
crholmstrom
()
Date: July 16, 2013 13:37
How does the bass sound with these? I have some damage (not all music) & I get irritated with plugs blocking out the low end.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: July 16, 2013 13:57
Are these for you people who want to stay close to the stage? If not neccessarily so, why do they play so loud in the first place?
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
johnnythunders
()
Date: July 16, 2013 15:51
The version I bought looks very much like the Pacato shown above. Bass response is excellent. Bands will always play too loud. Its what they do. With the ACLs you don't have to fear the consequenes.
I seem to hear the vocals better, though I don't know why.Very aggressive treble guitar notes seem to calm down. You get less loud not less exciting.
And at £14 or less everyone can at least give them a try (no, I don't work for ACL but when my tinnitus was at its peak I felt that I was going mad from the inside out so I am keen for other music fans to take hearing protection very seriously)
I seem to hear the vocals better, though I don't know why.Very aggressive treble guitar notes seem to calm down. You get less loud not less exciting.
And at £14 or less everyone can at least give them a try (no, I don't work for ACL but when my tinnitus was at its peak I felt that I was going mad from the inside out so I am keen for other music fans to take hearing protection very seriously)
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: July 16, 2013 16:21
They're a bit more expensive than the ER-20 (Etymotic, ACS, etc...) but are more discrete, might give them a try even though the reviews on Amazon are more "contrasted" than for the ER-20. According to this comparison the Pacato [www.audiocheck.net] work slightly better than the ER-20 [www.audiocheck.net] (called Macks in this case) for higher frequencies.
They come with two different plug sizes too so that can be handy if your ears are of a slightly different size! Which size did you end up using?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
They come with two different plug sizes too so that can be handy if your ears are of a slightly different size! Which size did you end up using?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
johnnythunders
()
Date: July 16, 2013 19:56
The version I bought looks very much like the Pacato shown above. Bass response is excellent. Bands will always play too loud. Its what they do. With the ACLs you don't have to fear the consequenes.
I seem to hear the vocals better, though I don't know why.Very aggressive treble guitar notes seem to calm down. You get less loud not less exciting.
And at £14 or less everyone can at least give them a try (no, I don't work for ACL but when my tinnitus was at its peak I felt that I was going mad from the inside out so I am keen for other music fans to take hearing protection very seriously)
I seem to hear the vocals better, though I don't know why.Very aggressive treble guitar notes seem to calm down. You get less loud not less exciting.
And at £14 or less everyone can at least give them a try (no, I don't work for ACL but when my tinnitus was at its peak I felt that I was going mad from the inside out so I am keen for other music fans to take hearing protection very seriously)
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
johnnythunders
()
Date: July 16, 2013 19:58
I used the larger casing (women tend to use the smaller version, apparently)
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: July 16, 2013 20:26
I had something called Alpine Musicsafe Pro, which come with three levels of filters. I used the top filter (gold) and they did the job. I recommend them, except the first time I wore them I immediately lost them as they popped out as soon as I started jumping up and down! So I had to replace them, but eventually I got an ACS custom-made pair, which work better for me. At the fitting, I learnt that my ear canals are very narrow, so I guess that's why the ones off the shelf aren't the best fit.
They don't spoil my enjoyment of the music at all and definitely do what they claim because I don't get ringing in my ears after concerts any more. I had started to get tinnitus and didn't want it to get worse, so that's why I got them. So far so good... I'd say you don't need to spend the extra on the custom fit ones if the regular ones fit you well enough.
They don't spoil my enjoyment of the music at all and definitely do what they claim because I don't get ringing in my ears after concerts any more. I had started to get tinnitus and didn't want it to get worse, so that's why I got them. So far so good... I'd say you don't need to spend the extra on the custom fit ones if the regular ones fit you well enough.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
brownsugar86
()
Date: July 16, 2013 22:17
Sorry to hear you lost the ACS plugs. I have a pair that I'm terrified of losing for the second time (£200!)
I've resorted to putting my contact details & a message on a card inside the case they come in explaining that they are made to fit my ears. Just in case I lose them in future and some good soul finds them & returns them to me.
I've resorted to putting my contact details & a message on a card inside the case they come in explaining that they are made to fit my ears. Just in case I lose them in future and some good soul finds them & returns them to me.
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: July 16, 2013 22:39
I'll definitely give the Pacatos a try since they muffle less in the high end than the ER-20 apparently and I'm a bit concerned about the "tubes" that stick out of these...if someone bumps into you, although the blue ones go pretty deep in my ear.
@Beast - which ACS custom model did you get? They seem to have several, ER9/15/25, PRO. Might be pro since you said you could use them to listen to music witha cable too? According to what I've read these custom models provide the most transparent response.
The Alpine do seem to be quite a bit shallower than the ER-20s and are bi-flange vs tri-flange so it's not surprising they would pop out!
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
@Beast - which ACS custom model did you get? They seem to have several, ER9/15/25, PRO. Might be pro since you said you could use them to listen to music witha cable too? According to what I've read these custom models provide the most transparent response.
The Alpine do seem to be quite a bit shallower than the ER-20s and are bi-flange vs tri-flange so it's not surprising they would pop out!
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
Beast
()
Date: July 17, 2013 02:11
@gotdablouse - before the Alpine ones I had a white ACS pair that came on a cord but I never even used them because they didn't fit at all and also, like you, I didn't feel too confident with the tubes sticking out like that. The custom model I got on advice from the audiologist after telling him what I wanted them for is the ACS Pro 17 (with a £20 discount). And yes, you can get earphones to fit in them but I'm not sure whether the idea of those is more for comfort than protection.
[www.acscustom.com]
[www.acscustom.com]
Re: ACS Ear protectors - highly recommended
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: July 17, 2013 02:44
I ordered the ACS Pacatos today from Amazon and last month I got a few pairs of the blue earplugs that gotdablouse recommended. I really like them, but I am curious now about the ACS ones, so I'll do a comparison.
Thanks for all this great information!
Thanks for all this great information!
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: July 17, 2013 13:58
I saw the Jim Jones Revue in Bristol UK last year. My ears were ringing for 3 days. I began to get worried on day 3 but luckily i have escaped any damage. BTW it was one of the best gigs i've ever seen.
I've been a musician for 30 years. I rarely use headphones because of a previous bout of temporary tinnitus many years ago. Out of phase speakers for me. A bit of spillage beats hearing loss any time.
I agree with the plea in this thread. I want to be able to listen to the Stones when i'm old, living in a care home crapping my pants involuntarily. I say yes to ear plugs at concerts. Especially if you're seeing Pariah Scary or Celine Dion. It could save your life.
"Watch out for your ears" - Jimi Hendrix
I've been a musician for 30 years. I rarely use headphones because of a previous bout of temporary tinnitus many years ago. Out of phase speakers for me. A bit of spillage beats hearing loss any time.
I agree with the plea in this thread. I want to be able to listen to the Stones when i'm old, living in a care home crapping my pants involuntarily. I say yes to ear plugs at concerts. Especially if you're seeing Pariah Scary or Celine Dion. It could save your life.
"Watch out for your ears" - Jimi Hendrix
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: July 17, 2013 14:00
Quote
ash
I saw the Jim Jones Revue in Bristol UK last year. My ears were ringing for 3 days. I began to get worried on day 3 but luckily i have escaped any damage. BTW it was one of the best gigs i've ever seen.
I've been a musician for 30 years. I rarely use headphones because of a previous bout of temporary tinnitus many years ago. Out of phase speakers for me. A bit of spillage beats hearing loss any time.
I agree with the plea in this thread. I want to be able to listen to the Stones when i'm old, living in a care home crapping my pants involuntarily. I say yes to ear plugs at concerts. Especially if you're seeing Pariah Scary or Celine Dion. It could save your life.
"Watch out for your ears" - Jimi Hendrix
i'll give you some advice. your ears were ringing, you didn't escape damage. whenever they ring damage has occured
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: July 17, 2013 14:13
Based on the good advice in this thread I wore plugs for the first time, for Philly 2. Cheap ones, but they worked fine, the show was super loud and I forgot I had them in, heard everything fine, and had zero ringing afterwards (which is unusual). They're not for wimps or retirees.
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
Allegorius
()
Date: July 17, 2013 14:43
I always wonder 'bout the ears of the RS. Can they still hear anything? Their tinnitus must be horrible. 50 years of r&r -- my ears would be bleeding. One evening with Crazy Hose is enough, and my ears are ringing. What about a rock stars hearing? Especially Charlie. Arn't his monitors loud enough? He wore headphones on SFD. That must be unimaginably loud.
PS: Excuse my bad english. I'm new over here. Hope everybody understands what I mean.
PS: Excuse my bad english. I'm new over here. Hope everybody understands what I mean.
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: July 17, 2013 14:52
Quote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
ash
I saw the Jim Jones Revue in Bristol UK last year. My ears were ringing for 3 days. I began to get worried on day 3 but luckily i have escaped any damage. BTW it was one of the best gigs i've ever seen.
I've been a musician for 30 years. I rarely use headphones because of a previous bout of temporary tinnitus many years ago. Out of phase speakers for me. A bit of spillage beats hearing loss any time.
I agree with the plea in this thread. I want to be able to listen to the Stones when i'm old, living in a care home crapping my pants involuntarily. I say yes to ear plugs at concerts. Especially if you're seeing Pariah Scary or Celine Dion. It could save your life.
"Watch out for your ears" - Jimi Hendrix
i'll give you some advice. your ears were ringing, you didn't escape damage. whenever they ring damage has occured
I appreciate that...i just mean that since then, my ears feel fine in daily terms and i have not been exposed to loud volume or experienced any problems since for which i count myself very lucky... so far...thanks for the advice everyone.
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: July 17, 2013 15:11
i would like more volume and bass
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: July 17, 2013 16:38
I've been over 300 concerts since 1975. I've done mechanical work all my life. I'm over 50. My hearing isn't what it was when i was 20 but it's still pretty good. You could lose your hearing a lot faster by cranking the car stereo for years and years.
Re: Please, concert goers, get earplugs and wear them
Posted by:
MJRocksoff
()
Date: July 17, 2013 16:57
I was in the first row at Philly # 2 last month and by the encore of Satisfaction my ears felt like they were gonna fall off! The sounds was awesome but loudest show I was at since 94 of my 25 Stones shows. I'm in my early 30's too.
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