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Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 08:23

Hello everyone on IORR! My name is Karl and I used to post here regularly in friggin' 1997-98 when I was a senior in high school under the name OurProducerRegThorpe. Don't have that e-mail account anymore so here I am. I'm very excited about this tour! YES, it's WAY too expensive, but having Taylor on four songs last night kinda blows my mind. How's everyone doing?

A little about me, at least regarding my Stones fandom . . .

1) Goats Head Soup is my favorite album of theirs. Period. UNDERRATED as hell! Exile is a close 2nd.

2) I got into the Stones when I was 8 years old, based off of a 60 minute mixed tape my parents' best friends Patti & Karl (yup, namesake) made me entitled Best Of Blues. It featured material exclusively from Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed & Sticky Fingers.

3) I find the funk/disco influenced period of 76-83 to be fantastic, I love EVERY one of those albums, especially Emotional Rescue, which is probably heresy for some, but I love it! "Dance" rules! >grinning smiley<

4) Mick Taylor is my favorite Stones guitarist but I see no reason to not love Ronnie Wood as well. Is he as good a player? Of course not! However, how can you not love the solo on "Black Limousine?" smileys with beer The man is underrated in Stonesland.

5) I saw them in 94, 97, 99, 02 and 03, so that's 5 times for me. First time I was a sophomore in high school. Last time I was 22 and kinda left the show feeling jaded and disappointed--didn't think they played that tight on the Licks tour (Keith and Ronnie seemed drunk and unfocused). For me the best show I saw was opening night of No Security, what a setlist! The one-time only encore of "Rambler" and "Sympathy!"

6) The only album I feel is an all-out clunker (and even that one isn't terrible, just very forgettable and all-too-slick) that they ever released is Steel Wheels. It's Only Rock N Roll is their blandest/weakest of the 70s IMHO. Who can argue with the majesty of "Time Waits For No One" or the menace of "Fingerprint File," but most of the rest is, again IMHO, filer.

Anyway, that's enough catching you up to who I am since I haven't posted in 15 years! Now onto the subject of Dirty Work being underrated . . . Does anyone agree?

This album gets shit on more than any other in the Stones canon. For my money, it was their last great album, which apparently is an opinion shared by Robert Christgau and Stylus Magazine. YES, the 80s production (especially the snare tone) is dated as hell. However, I LOVE how angry, snarly and punky this album is--they never sounded this angry before or after for my money. Is it one of their best ever? Of course not. Does it deserve a reassessing? I think so. Favorite songs are "One Hit," "Fight," "Dirty Work" and "Had It With You." Prefer it by a mile to the bland follow-up Steel Wheels, as well as to the uneven VL, B2B and ABB. Those all had their share of great songs but were all overlong.

Anyway, with the Stones touring currently I've been getting out their records again and my vinyl of Dirty Work has gotten a LOT of plays recently. I love Mick's angry, marbles-in-his-mouth vocals on this record, the jagged guitar tones and the genuinely pissed off attitude throughout. The snare sound can go to hell, but hey, it was 1986--right in the eye of the storm. Thoughts?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-22 08:32 by CanYouHearTheMusic.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: May 22, 2013 08:28

...my oath ... Some dirty stuff on there...
Plus I always hum Back Ta Zero when I'm on the rifle range ... POW!!!!!



ROCKMAN

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 22, 2013 08:30

It's about time we covered this subject!

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: May 22, 2013 08:56

Brings up a good RW arguement, BL isn't technical virtuosity, but it's damn fun to play. MT is much better, but RW is more sympathetic/versatile. Fair?

On to DW, another "bipolar" album. Dig Fight, One Hit, Too Rude, but NOT Back to Zero, Winning Ugly. Jagger solo tracks?

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: May 22, 2013 09:06

My god, we just exhausted 'Undercover', today, Dirty Work's unhealthy Siamese Twin. Shove them together and you could maybe squeeze out a 4 song EP of 'Undercover of the Night', 'Harlem Shuffle', 'One Hit To The Body' and 'Sleep Tonight'. Face it, the band was on the verge of breaking up and it shows. I thought they came back and acquitted themselves with Steel Wheels and basically pulled down the tent on the classic Stones. The Steel Wheels tour was the ultimate nostalgia show. They've been doing a variation of that since. Grade A nostalgia, some times. No Security was tits. And some of this current go round is interesting, more so than Licks or ABB.

But back to your original question, which we will chew on like an old pork chop for days on end, resulting in personal insults and smiley/frowny faces galore, Dirty Work is the their second suckiest album, after Undercover. I have almost every Rolling Stones CD, the exception being Undercover. And I don't even bother to upgrade my CBS Dirty Work because all the SACD mixing in the world is only polishing a turd. Glad you're back!

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 09:20

Quote
24FPS
My god, we just exhausted 'Undercover', today, Dirty Work's unhealthy Siamese Twin. Shove them together and you could maybe squeeze out a 4 song EP of 'Undercover of the Night', 'Harlem Shuffle', 'One Hit To The Body' and 'Sleep Tonight'. Face it, the band was on the verge of breaking up and it shows. I thought they came back and acquitted themselves with Steel Wheels and basically pulled down the tent on the classic Stones. The Steel Wheels tour was the ultimate nostalgia show. They've been doing a variation of that since. Grade A nostalgia, some times. No Security was tits. And some of this current go round is interesting, more so than Licks or ABB.

But back to your original question, which we will chew on like an old pork chop for days on end, resulting in personal insults and smiley/frowny faces galore, Dirty Work is the their second suckiest album, after Undercover. I have almost every Rolling Stones CD, the exception being Undercover. And I don't even bother to upgrade my CBS Dirty Work because all the SACD mixing in the world is only polishing a turd. Glad you're back!

No Security was definitely tits! Best show I ever saw. Hahaha, well I'm not surprised many hate this album. The production is 1986 all the way and I was just wondering how alone I am in my LOVE for this album (that again, is certainly not their best, but I dig it). For me their weakest albums are Steel Wheels and IORR. All the Mick Taylor in the world can't save IORR from weak songwriting and a phoned in cover, but I DO love Fingerprint File, TWFNO, IORR and IYCRM. The rest of that album is by-the-numbers Stones. They definitely needed to do lots of coke and make Hot Stuff, Hey Negrita and Crazy Mama the next time around. Thanks for the welcome back!

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 09:24

Quote
Thrylan
Brings up a good RW arguement, BL isn't technical virtuosity, but it's damn fun to play. MT is much better, but RW is more sympathetic/versatile. Fair?

On to DW, another "bipolar" album. Dig Fight, One Hit, Too Rude, but NOT Back to Zero, Winning Ugly. Jagger solo tracks?

Used to hate "Winning Ugly" and "Back To Zero" but they grew on me for some reason. For the longest time I played Dirty Work as a playlist with first four on side 1 and Dirty Work/Had It With You on side 2. The other 4 (which sound like 2 solo tracks from Jagger and Richards apiece) grew on me though. The guitar leads on Winning Ugly (Keith? Ronnie?) are what won me over eventually, though I'd be lying if I didn't label that song 80s Yuppie Rock. And yet . . . somehow I think it works? Go figure.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Vocalion ()
Date: May 22, 2013 09:26

no

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: May 22, 2013 09:37

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic
Quote
Thrylan
Brings up a good RW arguement, BL isn't technical virtuosity, but it's damn fun to play. MT is much better, but RW is more sympathetic/versatile. Fair?

On to DW, another "bipolar" album. Dig Fight, One Hit, Too Rude, but NOT Back to Zero, Winning Ugly. Jagger solo tracks?

Used to hate "Winning Ugly" and "Back To Zero" but they grew on me for some reason. For the longest time I played Dirty Work as a playlist with first four on side 1 and Dirty Work/Had It With You on side 2. The other 4 (which sound like 2 solo tracks from Jagger and Richards apiece) grew on me though. The guitar leads on Winning Ugly (Keith? Ronnie?) are what won me over eventually, though I'd be lying if I didn't label that song 80s Yuppie Rock. And yet . . . somehow I think it works? Go figure.

Here is how pathetic I am. I get into different Stones albums from different periods and rediscover stuff all the time. About ten years ago, after being nearly complete with albums and CDs, I decided to convert to CD. DW is one of the only ones that my only copy is still vinyl, never could pull the trigger. As I stated earlier, it's bipolar, and reminds me of a bad Stones time. I need to make myself do it, but it's hard. Hmm Its Hard, hell I have that terrible Who album on CD.....sad.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 09:52

Definitely underrated! 6 or 7 songs are good, hence it doesn't deserve all the bashing, imo.

One Hit (To The Body)
Fight
Harlem Shuffle
Too Rude
Dirty Work
Had It With You
Sleep Tonight

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: May 22, 2013 09:57

I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: May 22, 2013 10:00

Quote
Thrylan
I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

Chuck actually gets a writing credit for Back to Zero, the worst song in the catalogue.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: May 22, 2013 10:01

No, it's not underrated...a solid 2 stars out of 5.

Well, maybe not solid.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: May 22, 2013 10:22

The best song on the album is Sleep Tonight--but which suffers from Ron Wood's drumming. It's a mellow track, but the snare drum sounds like it's a trash can lid being smashed by a hammer. Not subtle enough, instead a guitarist getting to show off behind the kit, going 'Look at me, I can hold a drum beat, Ha Ha!' The beat sounds too perky, whereas it should sound.... sleepy--instead each beat pounds you in the head like an alarm clock when you're trying to drift off....to sleep tonight.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 10:27

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Definitely underrated! 6 or 7 songs are good, hence it doesn't deserve all the bashing, imo.

One Hit (To The Body)
Fight
Harlem Shuffle
Too Rude
Dirty Work
Had It With You
Sleep Tonight

I would omit Too Rude and add Hold Back. I LOVE the riff on Hold Back and the fade-out weaving is great, IMHO.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 10:30

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Thrylan
I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

Chuck actually gets a writing credit for Back to Zero, the worst song in the catalogue.

The worst song in the catalogue is a four-way tie between the new songs that were on 40 Licks. Talk about stinkers! Those were all WAY worse than Back To Zero, which actually I dig quite a bit (sorry to offend--I like it!). But Keys To Your Love & Don't Stop sound more like Mick asleep at the wheel & phoning it in than anything they released before or afterward, whereas Stealing My Heart and Losing My Touch are Keith's equivalent. Terrible lyrics on all four, thin production, nothing interesting going on there.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:03

Quote
CanYouHearTheMusic
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Thrylan
I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

Chuck actually gets a writing credit for Back to Zero, the worst song in the catalogue.

The worst song in the catalogue is a four-way tie between the new songs that were on 40 Licks. Talk about stinkers! Those were all WAY worse than Back To Zero, which actually I dig quite a bit (sorry to offend--I like it!). But Keys To Your Love & Don't Stop sound more like Mick asleep at the wheel & phoning it in than anything they released before or afterward, whereas Stealing My Heart and Losing My Touch are Keith's equivalent. Terrible lyrics on all four, thin production, nothing interesting going on there.

Yeah, I kinda thought that was an 0/4 or 1/4 situation too

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 14:48

Quote
Thrylan
I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

For the rhythm guitar alone I can play that track for hours!

Keith's tightest rhythm with the best sound in the world - and I haven't even mentioned Mick's mean harp yet thumbs up

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:58

Didn't know it was rated by anyone? Can you rate vacuum?

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: May 22, 2013 14:59

The Keith stuff on Dirty Work is real good. I think Undercover is underrated too.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 15:07

Quote
dcba
Didn't know it was rated by anyone? Can you rate vacuum?

by the pressure...

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: May 22, 2013 15:17

I wouldn't say it was their last great album, but I do definitely really like it. In fact, I prefer it to Undercover...

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: May 22, 2013 15:21

I think it's vastly overrated.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: crumbling_mice ()
Date: May 22, 2013 15:27

Too Rude is the only decent track on the album...hate it otherwise, the drum sounds and guitars, in fact the whole mix is just repugnant. A real low point only equalled by ABB.


Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: GRNRBITW ()
Date: May 22, 2013 15:49

it is underrated. whereas most people consider it the worst stones album ever...i think it's at least two stones albums worse than that. thankfully, the stones never did those two albums, but still....

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: TimeIs ()
Date: May 22, 2013 15:59

Underrated. All good tracks, yes even Hold Back, except for Back to Zero and Winning Ugly. Winning is almost OK, but it's damaged by the synths and it's underdeveloped. Too Rude is their best reggae track. Some hate Hold Back but I love the way it ends by becoming a little funky, dancey, after its nearly heavy metal start, introducing the more "dance" middle part of the album. Nice segue and a strong sense of ambition, song placement and thematic cohesion that you don't find on Steel Wheels.

I know Mick "shouts" or "growls" throughout, but it kind of fits the style of the "angry" songs.

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Date: May 22, 2013 16:01

Quote
crumbling_mice
Too Rude is the only decent track on the album...hate it otherwise, the drum sounds and guitars, in fact the whole mix is just repugnant. A real low point only equalled by ABB.

Agree about the mix, but in fairness that is not the case with all the tracks.

Harlem Shuffle, Had It With You, Sleep Tonight and Fight don't have that 80s "booooooom boooooooom-mix".

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 22, 2013 16:04

Here we go again...

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: GRNRBITW ()
Date: May 22, 2013 16:05

Quote
Stoneage
Here we go again...

one more time around piccadilly circus...driver follow that bus!

Re: Dirty Work--anyone here think it's underrated?
Posted by: Thrylan ()
Date: May 22, 2013 18:22

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Thrylan
I would omit HIWY, just sounds hokey to me. The other you mention are tight, but the stinkers.....uhg! Isn't this Chucks debut? That's a half star deduction.

For the rhythm guitar alone I can play that track for hours!

Keith's tightest rhythm with the best sound in the world - and I haven't even mentioned Mick's mean harp yet thumbs up

I am that way about Jivin Sister Fanny (D....C....D.....C...etc....) we can all be suckers for simplicity.

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