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68to72
Jagger at his finest.....And the best song The Stones didnt write IMHO

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Edward Twining

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stonehearted
I wonder if I can pinpoint what it is that makes virtually all of Mick's solo material fall flat, because it is a rather nice tune with a memorable hook. But even the dullest of Stones tracks has something Mick's solo work doesn't--The Stones. The Stones are a rock band, and if recorded by The Stones this track would have sounded more like a rock song, rather than just a dated middle-of-the-road pop song more suited to the likes of 80s era Rod Stewart. Without Charlie's snare drum attack and without the muscle of Keith's rhythm guitar, Mick always comes off as a bit of a lightweight on his own, despite the occasional "Stonesish" flourishes.

I'm not sure i agree with you, stonehearted, if you are using 'Throwaway' as an example, although fundamentally with the exception of PRIMITIVE COOL, Jagger's solo work does tend to 'lack' something. However, it is also true that the Stones output has also been lacking that certain something post TATTOO YOU too, but with PRIMITIVE COOL at least Jagger is trying something a little different in terms of him seeming a little more autobiographical in terms of his tone, and in a sense even with regards to the more typically Stones like 'Throwaway', Jagger is singing with a greater sense of conviction and authenticity. Maybe what he achieves isn't always successful on PRIMITIVE COOL, but at least he's willing to try a different approach, and one that at times proves quite absorbing.

'Throwaway' for me, works, despite its 80s sound, because it has a spirit of excess within its grooves, which is pretty much lacking within what Jagger's later solo work and also within what the Stones have done since, where ultimately a more clean and clinical (and conservative) approach starting with STEELWHEELS has rendered everything to sound that little too safe and predictable. I'd rather have 'Throwaway' any day than 'Sad Sad Sad', 'I Go Wild' 'Rough Justice' etc, etc, because it moves a little bit beyond simply existing as a Stones pastiche. Maybe those 80s elements have dated it somewhat, yet in another sense they (and the fact Jagger is playing with different musicians) gives it that extra shot of vitality. The problem with much of the Stones post TATTOO YOU output, is much of it sounds decidedly sketchy and underdeveloped, as if the Stones are simply sticking to what's been tried and tested before, but with increasingly dwindling returns, because the songs and arrangements lack any real depth and focus. With 'Throwaway' Jagger is working with different musicians, who despite working within a more typical Stones rocking genre, actually manage to give the song some fresh impetus. Yes, no doubt with 'Throwaway', Jagger is jumping on a more typically 80s bandwagon of sound, yet i think it is rather blind to see 'Throwaway' as only that. It stands up to repeated listens, whereas much of the later Stones output simply doesn't, because in part, the Stones become too predictable within their sound.

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Doxa
I am glad Edward Twining shares the appreciation towards PRIMITIVE COOL that I have - there are not many of us... But behind the slick surface I hear there an inspired artist and a real touch of muse I don't hear in any Stones album ever since; it is there if one just digs a bit (only some Richards solo and Stones songs and WANDERING SPIRIT comes close, but the latter is rather easy bet and traditional, even though rather high in quality). There is depth and dareness that his records has lacked ever since. It is bit like SATANIC MAJESTIES of the 80's (and also similar in that Jagger not quite handling the game).

- Doxa

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Edward Twining

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Doxa
I am glad Edward Twining shares the appreciation towards PRIMITIVE COOL that I have - there are not many of us... But behind the slick surface I hear there an inspired artist and a real touch of muse I don't hear in any Stones album ever since; it is there if one just digs a bit (only some Richards solo and Stones songs and WANDERING SPIRIT comes close, but the latter is rather easy bet and traditional, even though rather high in quality). There is depth and dareness that his records has lacked ever since. It is bit like SATANIC MAJESTIES of the 80's (and also similar in that Jagger not quite handling the game).

- Doxa

Too true, Doxa.

As much as i appreciate Keith's solo work, and TALK IS CHEAP does work pretty effectively for some of the time, there is a sense that within Mick and Keith's solo efforts, that it is actually Keith's contributions which share that sketchy and underdeveloped trait most, which is so prevalent on much of the Stones post TATTOO YOU output, and not Mick's attempts at solo success, which tends to have other ramifications overshadowing what on occasions tend do be some good ideas. Keith solo songs like 'Struggle', and 'How I Wish' etc are a little too primitive to stand up to repeated listens, in other words a little too simplistic, and the guitar riffs a little too cliched. Yes, Keith has his familiar tone, so identifiable with the Stones, yet his riffs sound so casually knocked off, and they lack the assertiveness associated with the Stones in their prime. MAIN OFFENDER tends to take these elements a stage further, into what sounds like a lot of unfinished demos, passing off as finished material. I do appreciate Keith's lack of pretention, however, which has always been the thing which has blighted most Mick's solo career, yet Jagger does, whether misquided on occasions or not, have a greater sense of purpose in what he's looking for in the finished result. Keith uses 'feel' to see him through, but sometimes simply feeling his way is not enough without a greater sense of structure in what he's intending to achieve. Too much of his solo stuff comes across as simply dabbling.

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Green Lady

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Edward Twining

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Doxa
I am glad Edward Twining shares the appreciation towards PRIMITIVE COOL that I have - there are not many of us... But behind the slick surface I hear there an inspired artist and a real touch of muse I don't hear in any Stones album ever since; it is there if one just digs a bit (only some Richards solo and Stones songs and WANDERING SPIRIT comes close, but the latter is rather easy bet and traditional, even though rather high in quality). There is depth and dareness that his records has lacked ever since. It is bit like SATANIC MAJESTIES of the 80's (and also similar in that Jagger not quite handling the game).

- Doxa

Too true, Doxa.

As much as i appreciate Keith's solo work, and TALK IS CHEAP does work pretty effectively for some of the time, there is a sense that within Mick and Keith's solo efforts, that it is actually Keith's contributions which share that sketchy and underdeveloped trait most, which is so prevalent on much of the Stones post TATTOO YOU output, and not Mick's attempts at solo success, which tends to have other ramifications overshadowing what on occasions tend do be some good ideas. Keith solo songs like 'Struggle', and 'How I Wish' etc are a little too primitive to stand up to repeated listens, in other words a little too simplistic, and the guitar riffs a little too cliched. Yes, Keith has his familiar tone, so identifiable with the Stones, yet his riffs sound so casually knocked off, and they lack the assertiveness associated with the Stones in their prime. MAIN OFFENDER tends to take these elements a stage further, into what sounds like a lot of unfinished demos, passing off as finished material. I do appreciate Keith's lack of pretention, however, which has always been the thing which has blighted most Mick's solo career, yet Jagger does, whether misquided on occasions or not, have a greater sense of purpose in what he's looking for in the finished result. Keith uses 'feel' to see him through, but sometimes simply feeling his way is not enough without a greater sense of structure in what he's intending to achieve. Too much of his solo stuff comes across as simply dabbling.

In other words - they each need the other to balance their songwriting shortcomings.

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Edward Twining

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Doxa
I am glad Edward Twining shares the appreciation towards PRIMITIVE COOL that I have - there are not many of us... But behind the slick surface I hear there an inspired artist and a real touch of muse I don't hear in any Stones album ever since; it is there if one just digs a bit (only some Richards solo and Stones songs and WANDERING SPIRIT comes close, but the latter is rather easy bet and traditional, even though rather high in quality). There is depth and dareness that his records has lacked ever since. It is bit like SATANIC MAJESTIES of the 80's (and also similar in that Jagger not quite handling the game).

- Doxa

Too true, Doxa.

As much as i appreciate Keith's solo work, and TALK IS CHEAP does work pretty effectively for some of the time, there is a sense that within Mick and Keith's solo efforts, that it is actually Keith's contributions which share that sketchy and underdeveloped trait most, which is so prevalent on much of the Stones post TATTOO YOU output, and not Mick's attempts at solo success, which tends to have other ramifications overshadowing what on occasions tend do be some good ideas. Keith solo songs like 'Struggle', and 'How I Wish' etc are a little too primitive to stand up to repeated listens, in other words a little too simplistic, and the guitar riffs a little too cliched. Yes, Keith has his familiar tone, so identifiable with the Stones, yet his riffs sound so casually knocked off, and they lack the assertiveness associated with the Stones in their prime. MAIN OFFENDER tends to take these elements a stage further, into what sounds like a lot of unfinished demos, passing off as finished material. I do appreciate Keith's lack of pretention, however, which has always been the thing which has blighted most Mick's solo career, yet Jagger does, whether misquided on occasions or not, have a greater sense of purpose in what he's looking for in the finished result. Keith uses 'feel' to see him through, but sometimes simply feeling his way is not enough without a greater sense of structure in what he's intending to achieve. Too much of his solo stuff comes across as simply dabbling.

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wanderingspirit66

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Green Lady

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Edward Twining

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Doxa
I am glad Edward Twining shares the appreciation towards PRIMITIVE COOL that I have - there are not many of us... But behind the slick surface I hear there an inspired artist and a real touch of muse I don't hear in any Stones album ever since; it is there if one just digs a bit (only some Richards solo and Stones songs and WANDERING SPIRIT comes close, but the latter is rather easy bet and traditional, even though rather high in quality). There is depth and dareness that his records has lacked ever since. It is bit like SATANIC MAJESTIES of the 80's (and also similar in that Jagger not quite handling the game).

- Doxa

Too true, Doxa.

As much as i appreciate Keith's solo work, and TALK IS CHEAP does work pretty effectively for some of the time, there is a sense that within Mick and Keith's solo efforts, that it is actually Keith's contributions which share that sketchy and underdeveloped trait most, which is so prevalent on much of the Stones post TATTOO YOU output, and not Mick's attempts at solo success, which tends to have other ramifications overshadowing what on occasions tend do be some good ideas. Keith solo songs like 'Struggle', and 'How I Wish' etc are a little too primitive to stand up to repeated listens, in other words a little too simplistic, and the guitar riffs a little too cliched. Yes, Keith has his familiar tone, so identifiable with the Stones, yet his riffs sound so casually knocked off, and they lack the assertiveness associated with the Stones in their prime. MAIN OFFENDER tends to take these elements a stage further, into what sounds like a lot of unfinished demos, passing off as finished material. I do appreciate Keith's lack of pretention, however, which has always been the thing which has blighted most Mick's solo career, yet Jagger does, whether misquided on occasions or not, have a greater sense of purpose in what he's looking for in the finished result. Keith uses 'feel' to see him through, but sometimes simply feeling his way is not enough without a greater sense of structure in what he's intending to achieve. Too much of his solo stuff comes across as simply dabbling.

In other words - they each need the other to balance their songwriting shortcomings.

Not really - Wandering Spirit proves otherwise.

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treaclefingers

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Title5Take1
I like it, but a kewpie doll to anyone who can tell me what Mick whispers at the start.

"I really need your body right away", is what I always heard, but it sounds awkward.

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Title5Take1

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treaclefingers

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Title5Take1
I like it, but a kewpie doll to anyone who can tell me what Mick whispers at the start.

"I really need your body right away", is what I always heard, but it sounds awkward.

Thanks, you're right. You actually answered that once before when I had a thread about it, (I just did a search) but it was a two part question: one about THROWAWAY and the other about what Mick says after GOING TO A GO GO. And when someone answered "All right, sugar pop" about GO GO, I was so pleased to learn it that I showered praise on that scholar and ignored your scholarship about THROWAWAY (my natural bias toward Stones stuff versus solo stuff, I guess). So thanks twice!

Kewpie dolls are standard prizes at carnivals, of course, and I stole that line from Leonard Maltin's movie review book, where he says about RAMBO: FIRST BLOOD, "A kewpie doll to anyone who can understand what Stallone is yelling in the final scene."