For having interviewed MT a few years ago in Paris, I could feel talking to the guy that he realized what a stupid mistake he made in leaving the Stones. He would definitely come back if the Glimmer Twins would ask him to, but Ron is here to stay. Not because RW is better than MT, but because he doesn't steal their thunder.
And LA Forum is totally right, as much as Keith is a fantastic musician, he's a horrible human being. E.g. playing Happy on stage the night his son was dead...

Not performing that night in Paris would have made him feel even worse I think.

La Forum, Wow you also believe that Jagger and MT collaborated in the studio
and MT should of got songwriting credit for supplying that 2nd guitar and helping
Jagger get songs done like SWAY and Moonlight and others when Keith was MIA.

The key is these songs would of not got done because Jagger needed that 2nd
guitar.

MT also helped jagger sing his ass off and they created some magical moments
with Sway,Moonlight,Winter,Hide Your Love,etc.Jagger at best sings around the
notes but with these songs he is trying to sing the melodies MT is playing.

Three is a crowd and 1/3 of royalities is less than 1/2 in the world of
the glimmers.

Yeah! Im pretty sure Taylor helped out in many ways and Keith relized that his pal wouldnt mind writing stuff with others. Keith is the conservative here I think. Its also he who always says that mick doesnt have other friends than him and its he who gets mad at people for not following some rule Keith set up years ago. Of course its good in a way cause there wouldnt be any Stones without him today and he is still a genius (he was) but man I understand if people cant stand him. Yup, I would have loved to be a spider on the wall when the Micksters did Winter and maybe other songs. And when Mick phoned Keith up to say that Taylor left the band. Wonder what Keith said.

LA FORUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Keith is terrible to work with at least if
> you are in the band. Simple as that. And he
> couldnt stand Mick Ts greatness. Ron Wood was a
> fan of Keiths while Mick Taylor co-wrote brilliant
> songs with Mick. Jeaolusy, brotherhood, male egos
> etc. Keith treated Brian like shit and still does
> and dont tell me Brian was treating Keith in some
> bad way cause he wasnt. Keith is the real @#$%&
> in this band. Jimmy Page says that and so does
> Mick Jagger though in slitghtly different ways.
> Hes not very mature I think and while he was
> really cool and great in the 70s he is a parody
> today. As I said before from cool to clown. A real
> gangster.


Good post, in many ways. Woody is a lot more thick skinned than many and puts up with a lot of bullying from Keith, not to mention public ridicule from him not only in interviews but onstage (that embarrassing and childish incident in Stockholm last year being a prime example). Even his reaction to Ronnie trying to clean up on the last tour is notable - he basically froze him out socially as he wasnt there as a drinking buddy anymore, so it seems Ronnie is damned if he doesnt clean himself up, and damned if he does!

There's a lot about Keith I admire but the way he publicly trashes his bandmates past and present (with the notable exception of Charlie) isnt one of them.

Gazza, what's the Stockhom incident you mentioned?

[iorr.org]

see Dean & Bjornulf's reviews of the concert.

Thanks Gazza, I completely forgot about that.

What is octave riffing, OpenG?

I don't think Mick Taylor made major songwriting contributions to the Stones. What evidence is there? He made great musical contributions, but neither before or after (even w/Jack Bruce) did he write much, let alone good songs. I never understood why he didn't form a band with good collaborators - equals. Say Andy Frazer on bass (superb bassist/writer, & another Mayall alumnus), Colin Allen or Kenny Jones on drums, Barry Goldberg keys, Carla Olson &/or maybe another male singer/gutarist (Paul Rodgers? Robert Cray?) PR, Carla, & MT could all sing. It would have kicked ass! I'm sure Keith's treatment of MT & RW has had an effect - re RW I also mentioned this in the post on Ron's recovery/position in the group, & Gazza I think you're points are good but without drugs/alcohol I wonder how 'thick skinned' RW really is.

Hi Bars. Octave riffing is playing two of the same note at the same time but one note is an octave or more higher than the other. The high E string on a guitar is two octaves higher than the low E string for examaple. Wes Montgomery, the reknown jazz guitarist, was a prime exponent of this style of playing.

If Mick Taylor had not exited the Stones in 1974 he would not be alive today.
Leaving the Stones was a monumental decision for Mick Taylor & wife but in retrospect it was the right one.
Mick Taylor will never admit it but he had become heavily involved in the dope sessions that were a daily part of the Rolling Stones lifestyle .
Living life to the excess has serious pitfalls and MT jumped ship just in time before he became another notch on the Rock & Roll gravestone.
Nobody can blame Mick Taylor for leaving the Stones as self preservation must always take priority .
The timing was prickly as the Stones were just going on tour and he had to face the backlash from Keith and Mick.
Anyway MT made the correct decision as he is still alive today.

and as many posters have already said -
Mick Taylors solo guitar playing was great with the Stones and he added a new dimension to songs on record and live performance.

MT plays the octave riff over the chorus part on YCAGWYW if you want to hear that
awesome playing.Listen for Taylor's guitar its very easy to hear.On any 72/73
boot but my favorite is from 1972 the philly 1 special.

Also MT's trademark Winter Licks can be heard on YCAGWYW from 72 or 73.

Right, then I know what we are talkin about. But octave riffing on SFTD on Ya Yas? I must say I've never heard that. I think MT's part can split in three parts: first basic rythm guitar during the main part of the song. In the "calm" midpart he plays some licks, but these are mainly variations of the old classical blues turnaround, aren't they? And then the blistering solo as part three. Have I missed something during all these years?

Btw, my favorite octave playing by MT must be Sway from Too hot for Snakes. I think Ron's playing some octave licks aswell on CYHMK from MSG.

Hi listen at the 4.16 mark right after keith plays the first solo on SFTD on
ya ya's and you will hear Taylor's guitar playing his chordal octave before
he RIPS into his solo.

I listened but what I hear is what I above call "variations on the old classical blues turnaround". I really don't hear the octave intervall. If the key is E I'd say the basic intervall is the one between B and G#. Then he plays ascending licks mainly within the same intervall.

Mick Taylor will have had some fun reading some of the nonsense on this thread.

I am writing this for the benefit of Demon or anyone who might believe his rubbish.

Actually also for J ryan. Taylor did lots of songs with Mick. Sway, Moonlight, Ventilator, Time Waits, Winter, Hide Your Love, Can you Hear the Music. He'd written some of his own too. (Leather Jacket, Separately, Alladin Story(?)). He was creative. He got little, in fact no credit. Nor would he, ever. In '73, like Wyman, he started doing other projects, namely Tubular Bells. I don't know anything about the alleged "drugs problems" but am pretty sure that after working on GHS he found the Stones a bit limiting. Not Jagger, probably Keith. Certainly IORR album was Keith trying to go back to basics and it's just not that great. The best moments are Mick Taylor's bass line on Fingerprint File and his guitar on Time Waits.

I don''t think that when he joined he expected it to be temporary. And so what if he did? Who would have ever have thought they'd go on for so long? Not even them. Before he quit in December 1974 they had already had a group meeting to discuss their future plans as a gro

Mick Taylor will have had some fun reading some of the nonsense on this thread.

I am writing this for the benefit of Demon or anyone who might believe his rubbish.

Actually also for J ryan. Taylor did lots of songs with Mick. Sway, Moonlight, Ventilator, Time Waits, Winter, Hide Your Love, Can you Hear the Music. He'd written some of his own too. (Leather Jacket, Separately, Alladin Story(?)). He was creative. He got little, in fact no credit. Nor would he, ever. In '73, like Wyman, he started doing other projects, namely Tubular Bells. I don't know anything about the alleged "drugs problems" but am pretty sure that after working on GHS he found the Stones a bit limiting. Not Jagger, probably Keith. Certainly IORR album was Keith trying to go back to basics and it's just not that great. The best moments are Mick Taylor's bass line on Fingerprint File and his guitar on Time Waits.

I don''t think that when he joined he expected it to be temporary. And so what if he did? Who would have ever have thought they'd go on for so long? Not even them. Before he quit in December 1974 they had already had a group meeting to discuss their future plans as a gro

Can't post this in full! Will try again.

Mick Taylor will have had some fun reading some of the nonsense on this thread.

I am writing this for the benefit of Demon or anyone who might believe his rubbish.

Actually also for J ryan. Taylor did lots of songs with Mick. Sway, Moonlight, Ventilator, Time Waits, Winter, Hide Your Love, Can you Hear the Music. He'd written some of his own too. (Leather Jacket, Separately, Alladin Story(?)). He was creative. He got little, in fact no credit. Nor would he, ever. In '73, like Wyman, he started doing other projects, namely Tubular Bells. I don't know anything about the alleged "drugs problems" but am pretty sure that after working on GHS he found the Stones a bit limiting. Not Jagger, probably Keith. Certainly IORR album was Keith trying to go back to basics and it's just not that great. The best moments are Mick Taylor's bass line on Fingerprint File and his guitar on Time Waits.

I don''t think that when he joined he expected it to be temporary. And so what if he did? Who would have ever have thought they'd go on for so long? Not even them. Before he quit in December 1974 they had already had a group meeting to discuss their future plans as a gro

B, U , double G an E and an R. And Hello Logie.

OK. piecemeal.

group meeting to discuss their future plans as a group. What he didn't foresee was what a creative dead end it would become by the mid-seventies. He saw new opportunities with Jack Bruce and he took them.

NO REGRETS, Mr Rolli Polli Demon!

And lest we forget, it was Taylor's arrival in 1969 that transformed them into the Greatest Live Rock and Roll Band in the World. Mick and Keith just could not have believed their luck. Just take Jiving Sister Fanny or Travelling Man as examples of how he ignited their studio sessions. As Logie says (in an unstated way!) - can anyone possibly imagine Ronnie's scratchy, jaunty rhythm or spindly lead on Ya Yas? No! But it worked well for them post '77.

As for Ronnie - in 1969 he was a respected Bass player. Faces had just been formed. After early summer '71 Stones did not return live to UK until September 1973. What happened inbetween in the UK? David Bowie, T Rex ......AND in more credible Rock terms...the FACES. It was by 1973 that Ronnie had established himself as a raunchy little rockster with great spirit and slight eccentricity. That is when he caught the (party) attention of Mick and Keith.. As someone else pointed out above, Keith was talking about post Taylor era when he said " it was always Ronnie". Ofcourse he was a great social fit, but that has littl;e to do with musical fit, does it?

Nevertheless he's done some great stuff with them, especially early on. And i think he has been responsible for some of their songs. He is less musically gifted than M Taylor and maybe less exploratory etc. which is why he's been happier to live within the Mick and Keith machine. Besides, he's done loads of solo stuff to keep himself creatively satisfied. Reluctantly I will say that he's been a lot more active on this front than Mick Taylor, even if some of Ronnie's stuff is slightly shoddy!

Anyway, the main point for my posting this was to quell the the STUPID myth that Demon likes to perpetuate:

That Taylor was never a committed member and that it was always Ronnie's job.

I've been a great Ronnie Fan (since before he joined the Stones) but he really has been a bloody disgrace to the name Rolling Stone in recent years far more than Mick Taylor was or would ever be. Mick Taylor did the decent thing at the right time.

Ronnie can rarely hack it as a guitarist now. But it's not funny and not something to be made fun of really. It's sad. And Mick Taylor, I'm sure, would also sympathise with Ronnie. Fancy not being part of the recording sessions last November. Will he just be invited in for some lead overdubs?

Being a Rolling Stone, Mr Demon, is about being a committed and creative musical force within the band. Taylor was this this until he left. Wyman was this until he left. I do not sense that Ronnie fulfills this role any more. Sure, he tours with them and plays some guitar on stage after a fashion. But I rather think he'd like to be more involved in the studio - eg last November's sessions. This must be Mick and Keith's decision. Will ronnie just accept it? Probably.

And......totally as an aside...for the benefit of Polli and his followers.....

Taylor can more than hack it as a solo performer. Infact he's often still outstanding. Live solo stuff I've heard from Ronnie since 2001 makes me cringe.

So one of them needs the Stones and the other doesn't. (But I DON'T LIKE TO KNOCK RONNIE!)




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-09 01:04 by Deidre.

Deidre-

Your last post is required reading
by all embroiled in the MT & RW wars!
It is "spot on" and cannot be challenged.

It won't stop the stupidity but will serve to set the record straight!

Thanks!



- Thru our past darkly...

Re: Wood, he played great guitar while writing/lead-guitarist for The Birds (early 1964 - Dec '66), which is what got him initially hired as a guitarist w/Beck, before 1st bassist Dave Ambrose split, so w/in 2 mos RW was on bass (check out the 30 page bio of the Birds in Ugly Things magazine if you can find it - their comp on Deram was issued in 1999).
January to April'68 RW, wanting to play guitar again, & ex-Bird Kim Gardner (bs) recorded/toured as part of Creation (3 singles were issued, & other tracks recorded) - that band's complete works were released on 2 cds/4 lps in 1998 on Retroactive. Page saw orig Creation guitarist Eddie Phillips (who Wood replaced - Townshend also invited Phillips to join the Who, but he declined) bowing his guitar during '66 & integrated that as shtick on late Yardbirds tours & Led Zep's Dazed & Confused. (Creation lead singer Kenny Pickett was longtime LZ roadie).

I don't doubt that he played guitar before moving to bass. But it was his bass playing that got him noticed. And I remember an interview with him from 1976 when the interviewer put the the question, half in jest, "So, you recommend to other budding guitarists to start on bass and go from there to guitar?" Ronnie replied in a similar jesting vein, but did, as I recall, acknowledge that he was more of a bass player than a guitarist in 68/69.

And (ofcourse) he only got noticed as a guitarist once with the Faces.

And, John, I think Black Limousine was a Wood song. And Lies is a Faces-style knockabout too.

Like you, I also value his subtler interplay with Keith on ER album.

Well worth the wait Deidre! A great couple of postings...and thanks for the mention.

It's amzing what ten days in heaven can do! And then I return to find the New Year has started with old Taylor/Wood roasted chestnuts.

ps

Logie Burn, Parish of Wester Logie, Logie Cottage, Logie Baird, Logie Bear.........

Deidreddy! What wonderful Mick musings you write! And how are things in the the wild and wooly North? Drop us a line and let us know, whilst thou?

Yours, tail waggingly,

Chris

Rogered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-11 01:05 by Deidre.

Imagine Taylor on Black and Blue,Imagine Taylor on Some Girls,Taylor is on
Tatoo you so I guess we can.t imagine.Imagine Taylor on those jagger trendy
records like undercover or emotional rescue.imagine taylor on steel wheels and
Voodo lounge going back to their earlier days.Imagine Taylor playing instead of
Woody put woody back on bass.

Imagine a world with Taylor and the stones